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Bracie Smathers

QB Kyler Murray Oklahoma

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On 3/20/2019 at 9:57 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

So if Murray to Arizona at 1 is such a slam dunk - why is there no buzz about Arizona shopping Rosen around at all?

I believe that they will take Murray but that's the only thing that gives me some pause.

I agree that if he goes to Arizona he's worth taking with a late first, especially in this draft class where the RBs all seem a little 'meh'.

Maybe they want him to compete. Didn’t the Cowboys do this back in the day with Aikman and Steve Walsh?

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14 hours ago, Bojang0301 said:

Maybe they want him to compete. Didn’t the Cowboys do this back in the day with Aikman and Steve Walsh?

There is no real need to deal Rosen if they draft Murray. The combined salary would still be lower than 18 individual QB's, and roughly the same as Mariota/Tannehill or Trubisky/Daniel.

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KYLER MURRAY QB, OKLAHOMA SOONERS

Arizona Cardinals HC Kliff Kingsbury said, "everything's on the table" for the 1st overall pick.

This isn't breaking news at all, but it's more evidence that the tune around the Cardinals building has turned from "Rosen is our quarterback" to "everything's on the table." According to the betting markets, there is an 80% chance that Kyler Murray (5'10/207) ends up as the 1st overall pick, so it would be a surprise if the Cardinals didn't move on from Josh Rosen as long as they can get quality capital in return.

SOURCE: NFL.com

Mar 23, 2019, 6:05 PM

 

Edited by Faust

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I think Arizona is holding on to Rosen for now to keep their options open.  They have probably talked to teams to see who might be interested so they can trade during the draft.  If they like both Rosen and Murray, they can wait until they are on the clock to see if somebody wants to pay a ransom to get Kyler.  If nobody bites, they can take Kyler and deal Rosen to a QB needy team on draft day or after. 

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Gil Brandt on nfl radio said Oakland met with murray today, after Arizona recently met with Bosa. 

Several ways to connect those dots.

Simplest answer is that Arizona is doing their due diligence and Oakland is evaluating murray in case he slides to 1.4 (or even later, who knows). 

Another possibility is that the cardinals trade down to 1.4... maybe getting carr in the process? 

Another possibility is that the cardinals trade down to a team that's going after haskins, knowing that they might get murray a few picks later and that a guy like bosa isn't a bad consolation prize.  

Another possibility is that Arizona isn't getting any takers for Rosen at a price they'd consider, and are trying to decide whether rosen plus bosa is better than murray plus what they've been offered. 

And maybe if that happens they could really gamble and try to trade rosen, 2.1 and x to move back up and get murray on the hope he slides.  That could be pretty amazing for them if it worked but hard to say what it would cost without knowing the offers they're getting for rosen or how far murray would really slide. I don't think they could go into the draft planning on that - and i doubt they would hype him up so much if that was their plan - but wouldn't it be neat? 

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Raiders coach Jon Gruden led Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray though a private workout.

Gruden and Raiders GM Mike Mayock had dinner with Murray last night, and he then spent hours with Gruden this morning. Gruden and Murray were reportedly 1.5 hours late to a scheduled 30-minute throwing workout because Gruden went overboard during film breakdown, something that couldn't be more on brand for Gruden. The Raiders likely won't have the opportunity to draft Murray with the Cardinals holding all of the power, but the Raiders appear to have some interest in the off chance Arizona passes on the Heisman winner.

SOURCE: Gil Brandt on Twitter

Apr 1, 2019, 12:58 PM

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NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that the Arizona Cardinals are still deciding on whether they should draft Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray.

Most are under the impression that Murray (5'10/207) will be the first overall pick, but that decision has not been finalized according to Rapoport. It's clear that Kliff Kingsbury loves Murray, but the team grades Rosen higher than the non-Murray quarterback prospects in this draft and Kingsbury isn't the final decision maker. Rapoport also makes it clear that the Cardinals won't be giving Rosen away for cheap and he even leaves the door open to the Cardinals keeping both Rosen and Murray. However, this report sounds like the Cardinals are trying to get better offers for Rosen by saying they aren't desperate to trade the former 10th overall pick.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Apr 3, 2019, 11:55 AM

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On 3/31/2019 at 10:41 PM, bostonfred said:

Gil Brandt on nfl radio said Oakland met with murray today, after Arizona recently met with Bosa. 

Several ways to connect those dots.

Simplest answer is that Arizona is doing their due diligence and Oakland is evaluating murray in case he slides to 1.4 (or even later, who knows). 

Another possibility is that the cardinals trade down to 1.4... maybe getting carr in the process? 

Another possibility is that the cardinals trade down to a team that's going after haskins, knowing that they might get murray a few picks later and that a guy like bosa isn't a bad consolation prize.  

Another possibility is that Arizona isn't getting any takers for Rosen at a price they'd consider, and are trying to decide whether rosen plus bosa is better than murray plus what they've been offered. 

And maybe if that happens they could really gamble and try to trade rosen, 2.1 and x to move back up and get murray on the hope he slides.  That could be pretty amazing for them if it worked but hard to say what it would cost without knowing the offers they're getting for rosen or how far murray would really slide. I don't think they could go into the draft planning on that - and i doubt they would hype him up so much if that was their plan - but wouldn't it be neat? 

They could also draft Murray then trade him not long after

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This is confusing on why people are viewing him as a first round pick.  At best he shouldn't be drafted before the 4th round based on his measurables.  Seems this happens every couple years, I would think they would learn from teams mistakes,  ie cleveland.

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10 hours ago, bucksoh said:

This is confusing on why people are viewing him as a first round pick.  At best he shouldn't be drafted before the 4th round based on his measurables.  Seems this happens every couple years, I would think they would learn from teams mistakes,  ie cleveland.

Or learn from Cleveland's drafting of Baker Mayfield last year because the NFL game has changed.

People who study the game provide reasons with examples why Kyler Murray is not just the top QB but top player from this draft class.

They specifically note their data showed well before the draft that Cleveland should draft QB Baker Mayfield last year with the first pick and they use the same data to say Kyler Murray should be the top pick this year.

Why Kyler Murray is the top player on the PFF 2019 NFL Draft Board

Quote

 

A year ago, the PFF team was adamant that Baker Mayfield was the class of the quarterbacks before he was selected No. 1 overall by the Cleveland Browns. Mayfield was an easy choice for the top spot after breaking down our data as he owned the two best seasons we’ve ever graded and three of the top nine. He also excelled at the important components of quarterbacking that translate at the next level.

This year, another Oklahoma quarterback sits atop the PFF draft board in Kyler Murray...

 

Go to the link for the full article/data with video clips to back their take.

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4 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Or learn from Cleveland's drafting of Baker Mayfield last year because the NFL game has changed.

People who study the game provide reasons with examples why Kyler Murray is not just the top QB but top player from this draft class.

They specifically note their data showed well before the draft that Cleveland should draft QB Baker Mayfield last year with the first pick and they use the same data to say Kyler Murray should be the top pick this year.

Why Kyler Murray is the top player on the PFF 2019 NFL Draft Board

Go to the link for the full article/data with video clips to back their take.

He is not a top prospect because of his measurables.  You can show almost any qb highlights to make them  look good.  There is a reason why Russell Wilson  was a third round pick and it was because of his measurables.  It's why some teams are bad at drafting and why some aren't.  You can get lucky like the Seahawks did but the good teams would never draft a 3rd round prospect #1 overrall.  Could the Cards get lucky it is possible but the odds are heavily stacked against Murray succeeding. Big difference in height between Murray and Mayfield even though you're not willing to admit it.

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27 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

He is not a top prospect because of his measurables.  You can show almost any qb highlights to make them  look good.  There is a reason why Russell Wilson  was a third round pick and it was because of his measurables.  It's why some teams are bad at drafting and why some aren't.  You can get lucky like the Seahawks did but the good teams would never draft a 3rd round prospect #1 overrall.  Could the Cards get lucky it is possible but the odds are heavily stacked against Murray succeeding. Big difference in height between Murray and Mayfield even though you're not willing to admit it.

Why do you say I'm unwilling to admit that Murray is short and light? 

Murray has the same height and weight that lead him to collegiate success.  

The NFL got it wrong with Russell Wilson and you would be wrong if you feel that Russell Wilson would fall to the 3rd round in this draft due to his height.

Their are no studies showing height/weight correlate to NFL success or failure.

Their are studies that show college metrics/characteristics correlate to NFL success.  He has characteristics that dominated two sports as did Russell WIlson.  He played in the same system as Baker Mayfield and faced similar competition.  

Analytic studies of characteristics are not highlights. The highlights help explain the characteristic that transfer to the NFL. 

THE ADVANCED ANALYTICAL SIDE OF MURRAY From George Chahrouri & Eric Eager

Quote

There are a few numbers that have received the vast majority of the press when it comes to Murray. His height and weight are not only numbers that offer nothing in the way of predictive power but also happen to be characteristics with which he dominated at every level of competition....

 

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1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Why do you say I'm unwilling to admit that Murray is short and light? 

Murray has the same height and weight that lead him to collegiate success.  

The NFL got it wrong with Russell Wilson and you would be wrong if you feel that Russell Wilson would fall to the 3rd round in this draft due to his height.

Their are no studies showing height/weight correlate to NFL success or failure.

Their are studies that show college metrics/characteristics correlate to NFL success.  He has characteristics that dominated two sports as did Russell WIlson.  He played in the same system as Baker Mayfield and faced similar competition.  

Analytic studies of characteristics are not highlights. The highlights help explain the characteristic that transfer to the NFL. 

THE ADVANCED ANALYTICAL SIDE OF MURRAY From George Chahrouri & Eric Eager

 

Because you say he is the top prospect in the draft.  Murray is a one year wonder another big?  Added with his lack of measurables, there is no way he should be drafted high.  As for no studies, as far as I know there is no qbs in the HOF under 5ft 11 in..    the nfl didn't get it wrong with Wilson there just wasn't any data for short qbs(drafted) given how easy it is to play qb.  So far he has been the only one who has had some success with qbs under 6 ft tall.

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QB Eddie LeBaron had a decent NFL career at only 5-7, sure a whole other football world in his day.

There is just something about Murray I don't like and it's how he doesn't appear to get what's really going on.  I don't like his dad involved, and do expect to see some problems on the horizon because of it. 

Russell Wilson (keeps being compared to Wilson) is on a whole totally different level than Murray and it's very obvious, his running is smart running, he gets it.  I expect to see Murray just running and it won't be long before....there he lays in a heap.

If I'm the Cards I keep what I got and get all I can for that first pick.

Edited by ZenoRazon
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59 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

QB Eddie LeBaron had a decent NFL career at only 5-7, sure a whole other football world in his day.

There is just something about Murray I don't like and it's how he doesn't appear to get what's really going on.  I don't like his dad involved, and do expect to see some problems on the horizon because of it. 

Russell Wilson (keeps being compared to Wilson) is on a whole totally different level than Murray and it's very obvious, his running is smart running, he gets it.  I expect to see Murray just running and it won't be long before....there he lays in a heap.

If I'm the Cards I keep what I got and get all I can for that first pick.

When ever I post I refer to the modern NFL.  I know you're old and I can repect your views on the time and era the players played in but he would never been able to play in the modern NFL.

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16 hours ago, bucksoh said:

Because you say he is the top prospect in the draft.  Murray is a one year wonder another big?  Added with his lack of measurables, there is no way he should be drafted high.  As for no studies, as far as I know there is no qbs in the HOF under 5ft 11 in..    the nfl didn't get it wrong with Wilson there just wasn't any data for short qbs(drafted) given how easy it is to play qb.  So far he has been the only one who has had some success with qbs under 6 ft tall.

I think he is the top QB in this draft.  I started this thread well before he was considered for the top pick and many thought he wouldn't get drafted due to his baseball contract but his numbers are incredible and he has much more to give than most QB prospects.

The only argument you provide is lack of measurables when analytic studies show their is no correlation to NFL success or failure.  

The reason why few QBs with his measurables come into the league with his production metrics is because they are rare because the production metrics indicate characteristics that translate to the NFL.  The measurables don't matter because he has already produced in college.

No data exists for his measureables because no one with his measurables posted his numbers.  Measurables don't matter, production metrics and the characteristics that transfer to the NFL do.

As for not liking his personality or his dad, yeah people didn't like Baker Mayfield because he's arrogant but he went number one in a deep QB class for many reasons that relate to characteristics that transfer to the NFL.  And many realize they made mistakes in not taking Patrick Mahomes sooner or DeSuan Watson or Russell Wilson sooner so that is why every QB drafted recently was either the top pick where no other team could move to get them or teams had to move up in the draft to get a shot at a QB.  

You don't seem to have anything other than measureables so...

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Bleacher Report's Matt Miller continues to hear that the Arizona Cardinals will select Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick.

According to Miller, the Cardinals have received "at least two offers" for current QB Josh Rosen. He notes that Arizona, at this point, is looking to recover as close to a first-round pick as possible for Rosen in an effort to "save face" in what's been something of a farcical situation (it's been widely reported that Murray will be their pick since back in February). You can reasonably expect some movement on a trade soon with the draft now less than three weeks distant.

SOURCE: Bleacher Report

Apr 5, 2019, 8:26 AM

 

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5 minutes ago, Faust said:

Bleacher Report's Matt Miller continues to hear that the Arizona Cardinals will select Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick.

According to Miller, the Cardinals have received "at least two offers" for current QB Josh Rosen. He notes that Arizona, at this point, is looking to recover as close to a first-round pick as possible for Rosen in an effort to "save face" in what's been something of a farcical situation (it's been widely reported that Murray will be their pick since back in February). You can reasonably expect some movement on a trade soon with the draft now less than three weeks distant.

SOURCE: Bleacher Report

Apr 5, 2019, 8:26 AM

What's farcical about the situation? They think there's a better QB out there that could be a franchise guy. Rotoworld's analysis stinks sometimes. Like, really bad.  

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32 minutes ago, rockaction said:

What's farcical about the situation? They think there's a better QB out there that could be a franchise guy. Rotoworld's analysis stinks sometimes. Like, really bad.  

Um, yes, indeed it does, but in this case the analysis was by Bleacher Report and not Rotoworld

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7 minutes ago, squistion said:

Um, yes, indeed it does, but in this case the analysis was by Bleacher Report and not Rotoworld

Oh, okay. I saw that it was Matt Miller from BR, but the blurb sure sounded like Rotoworld. My bad. Thanks, squis. 

Despite my sourcing error, it's still not a farce, and the implication it is shows some questionable judgment on the part of whoever wrote the blurb.  

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Oh, okay. I saw that it was Matt Miller from BR, but the blurb sure sounded like Rotoworld. My bad. Thanks, squis. 

Despite my sourcing error, it's still not a farce, and the implication it is shows some questionable judgment on the part of whoever wrote the blurb.  

I am not sure what is farcical about it either.

Bleacher Report is just about clickbait. The site policy seems to be to have writers say outlandish things to in order to generate more clicks and in turn be at the top of any Google search - and they have been blatantly shameless about it for years. 

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4 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I think he is the top QB in this draft.  I started this thread well before he was considered for the top pick and many thought he wouldn't get drafted due to his baseball contract but his numbers are incredible and he has much more to give than most QB prospects.

The only argument you provide is lack of measurables when analytic studies show their is no correlation to NFL success or failure.  

The reason why few QBs with his measurables come into the league with his production metrics is because they are rare because the production metrics indicate characteristics that translate to the NFL.  The measurables don't matter because he has already produced in college.

No data exists for his measureables because no one with his measurables posted his numbers.  Measurables don't matter, production metrics and the characteristics that transfer to the NFL do.

As for not liking his personality or his dad, yeah people didn't like Baker Mayfield because he's arrogant but he went number one in a deep QB class for many reasons that relate to characteristics that transfer to the NFL.  And many realize they made mistakes in not taking Patrick Mahomes sooner or DeSuan Watson or Russell Wilson sooner so that is why every QB drafted recently was either the top pick where no other team could move to get them or teams had to move up in the draft to get a shot at a QB.  

You don't seem to have anything other than measureables so...

Stopped reading at measurables don't matter, not worth discussing with you, I'm sure a lot of teams think this way so I'll bow down to your knowlege.  Why even have the combine then.

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30 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

Stopped reading at measurables don't matter, not worth discussing with you, I'm sure a lot of teams think this way so I'll bow down to your knowlege.  Why even have the combine then.

Probably a legit question, to be honest. At least moreso than declaring a player without a certain measureable having no chance for success.  

Fourth round prospect. :lmao:

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11 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

Stopped reading at measurables don't matter, not worth discussing with you, I'm sure a lot of teams think this way so I'll bow down to your knowlege.  Why even have the combine then.

I know you guys have been debating this a while but I think it's reasonable to say "quarterbacks under 6 feet have a serious disadvantage as pocket passers" and it's also reasonable to say "shorter, mobile quarterbacks can maneuver in the pocket to find clear passing lanes and extend plays in the nfl if they have the right coaching and arm talent".

It's true that there aren't many shorter quarterbacks in the hall of fame, but that's partly because teams rarely give shorter quarterbacks an opportunity to start.

It's unreasonable to think that every good short qb will be as good as Brees and Wilson - and murray is shorter than either. But it's also reasonable to think that he will get more opportunities than other short quarterbacks, especially if he goes number one overall.  

And while it's extremely rare for short quarterbacks to succeed, it's also extremely rare to find a player with the natural athleticism to be an elite two sport athlete - not just good but great at both sports. 

I totally agree with you that there's a real bust risk, and it doesn't make sense to take risks with the number one pick when there's legitimate star talent available at marquis positions. 

But I also don't blame anyone for chasing elite upside at quarterback, because a truly great quarterback can permanently redefine a franchise in a way that no other position can. 

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8 minutes ago, SayWhat? said:

Probably a legit question, to be honest. At least moreso than declaring a player without a certain measureable having no chance for success.  

Fourth round prospect. :lmao:

I never said he had no chance for sucess,  i said based on his measurables, also a one year wonder, and he has problem making nfl throws is why i have him as a 4th round prospect.  I however wouldn't draft him til later on in the draft.  Only time will tell.

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There is certainly risk with Murray. He's a unicorn, and there is no basis for comparison with other prospects. He has Vick-like mobility with a reasonably big arm, yet with accuracy, touch and feel.

But yeah, he's short. Real short, and that's a big deal. Were he 6'2 or 6'3, he'd be probably be the best QB prospect of all-time. Do his amazing strengths make up for a big liability, and does he have the chops to make the most of his amazing strengths against NFL defenses?

We'll see. He might be my favorite player in nearly 40 years of being a ridiculous Sooner fan, so not gonna claim much objectivity here. But I don't just blindly love Sooners' NFL prospects, and am typically lower than average in my opinions of their pro futures. I would take him over Baker in a heartbeat.

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Former NFL GM Scot McCloughan said he has heard that the Arizona Cardinals will select Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray.

More and more smoke is coming from that camp every day, so it would be surprising if Murray (5'10/207) wasn't the pick at this point. Earlier today, Bleacher Report's Matt Miller reported that the Cardinals have received "at least two offers" for Josh Rosen, but it's not a necessity for them to force a trade if the return isn't good enough. However, McCloughan expects Rosen to fetch "at least" a 2nd and 5th round pick, which probably would be enough to make it happen. We are now entering the time frame of when experts believe a trade could be materializing.

SOURCE: John Keim Report

Apr 5, 2019, 7:07 PM

 

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15 hours ago, bucksoh said:

I never said he had no chance for sucess,  i said based on his measurables, also a one year wonder, and he has problem making nfl throws is why i have him as a 4th round prospect.  I however wouldn't draft him til later on in the draft.  Only time will tell.

He does? Link?

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The bottom line is all of you are right and all of you are wrong. We all have opinions. Murray is a talented athlete and dominated in the Big 12 but that does not mean he is a surefire franchise QB. I do think he is talented and has a role in the NFL that said I would not be selecting him number one overall or selecting him as my franchise QB. I'm not so worried about his height but his frame does concern me. I don't think the Big 12 defenses and the defenses he will be facing next year are anywhere the same. Franchise QB to me means he is my guy for the next 10 years. I'm not convinced he will last that long. Murray for many in the NFL is the man and have no worries and think he is a can't miss prospect and I point to Baker Mayfield more than Wilson for that opinion. I'm also pretty sure many in the NFL have the same concerns as myself and others that he won't hold up over the long haul. 

I hear some like chocolate ice cream and others like strawberry. To each his own.

I'm also concerned if he goes to Arizona that offensive line will get him killed. The Cards better get that fixed in the next year or two.

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4 hours ago, RUSF18 said:

He does? Link?

Look under the link of Braceys under  The bad.

Edited by bucksoh

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19 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

Look under the link of Braceys under  The bad.

You picked out the one and only negative on his vision on MOF throws, :) You conveniently skipped this part.

I skipped over lots of things, this is just on his ability to make NFL throws.  Again to stress that this is JUST on his ability to make NFL throws.

Why Kyler Murray is the top player on the PFF 2019 NFL Draft Board

Quote

 

ACCURATE IN THE RIGHT AREAS

As we continue to dig into the PFF data, one of the most important aspects to determine a quarterback’s viability at the next level is his ability to hit open throws. While it sounds easy, and often used as a negative when evaluating college players with QB-friendly offenses, hitting open throws is the biggest separator between the best and worst quarterbacks at the next level. Like Mayfield, Murray shines in this area,...

ACCURATE UNDER PRESSURE

While clean-pocket success is one of the primary indicators for future success, and Murray certainly excels in that area, quarterbacks must be able to handle pressure and Murray has the accuracy and athleticism to translate at the next level.

Murray’s sudden pocket movement and ability to drop this pass in down the field is as good as you’ll see from any quarterback at any level during the 2018 season....

And even in a more traditional sense, Murray shows his accuracy here with multiple defenders bearing down on him as he throws a well-placed ball away from coverage...

ACCURACY AGAINST MAN COVERAGE; ACCURACY INTO TIGHT WINDOWS

Murray has the highest percentage of “perfect” throws (throws which are in-stride or placed away from the leverage of the coverage) in the draft class when targeting “single” coverage. He was middle-of-the-pack when it came to avoiding uncatchable passes in this scenario, but his high percentage of top-end plays certainly fall into the “NFL throws” bucket.

Murray also has the highest percentage of “perfect” throws into tight coverage.

 

We're sure you are not afraid to give Kyler Murray any credit so just helping you out so you don't look like THAT GUY since you mentioned me and the link that clearly shows Kyler Murray can make NFL throws at a high level that transfers to the NFL.

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4 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

I'm also concerned if he goes to Arizona that offensive line will get him killed. The Cards better get that fixed in the next year or two.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.  

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On 4/4/2019 at 2:56 PM, bucksoh said:

When ever I post I refer to the modern NFL.  I know you're old and I can repect your views on the time and era the players played in but he would never been able to play in the modern NFL.

I made that very clear about a different game.  My NFL starts in 1920-2019, I need it all.

But, I will only talk modern with you.

I do think size with matter more with Murray than it does with Wilson/Brees, they are all time greats, I don't see that ever being Murray.

Edited by ZenoRazon
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NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray is taking an official predraft visit to the New York Giants on Thursday.

While Murray has long been viewed as a future Arizona Cardinal, crucially, we have yet to see the Cardinals push all in with a trade of Josh Rosen. Until that happens, other teams are continuing to do their due diligence on the quarterback. Should Arizona draft, say, Quinnen Williams at No. 1, the whole draft could be thrown into chaos with Murray floating out there after months of assumption that he would be heading to the desert.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Apr 11, 2019, 4:00 PM

 

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Whoever has concerns about Kyler being a mobile QB and taking hits didn’t watch any OU games last year.  I’ve never seen a QB gain so many rushing yards and take such few hits.  It was amazing.  He was doing it to protect his baseball career, but the bottom line is he knows how to avoid punishment like nobody I’ve ever seen.  I think this has a lot to do with his draft stock rising so much.  While the NFL likes the idea of a mobile QB they never last, and Kyler can last if he does what he did last year IMHO.

Also the knock on NFL size seems to be around a QBs ability to see over an offensive line, and also his ability to take punishment.  I spoke to the latter, and for the former I will say OU had one of the top O lines in CFB last year all of which are NFL prospect O linemen.  I don’t know measurements on height but I done believe that line was below average in height by any means.  So I don’t think he had any issues seeing over his OLine...

Edited by OU#1
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1 hour ago, OU#1 said:

Whoever has concerns about Kyler being a mobile QB and taking hits didn’t watch any OU games last year.  I’ve never seen a QB gain so many rushing yards and take such few hits.  It was amazing.  He was doing it to protect his baseball career, but the bottom line is he knows how to avoid punishment like nobody I’ve ever seen.  I think this has a lot to do with his draft stock rising so much.  While the NFL likes the idea of a mobile QB they never last, and Kyler can last if he does what he did last year IMHO.

Also the knock on NFL size seems to be around a QBs ability to see over an offensive line, and also his ability to take punishment.  I spoke to the latter, and for the former I will say OU had one of the top O lines in CFB last year all of which are NFL prospect O linemen.  I don’t know measurements on height but I done believe that line was below average in height by any means.  So I don’t think he had any issues seeing over his OLine...

The difference for me is the difference between the defenses in the Big 12 compared to the defenses in the NFL. I don't think the two compare but that said the Mike Leach offense could be very good for fantasy QB production so if that can work and it does then yes Murray could be special that said though defenses and defensive coaching at the NFL level is another animal altogether. Either way should be fun to watch. My concern if I'm looking for Murray to be my QB for 10 years will he is he able to hold up and will the offense be viable in 10 years? You should be looking for the most production for fantasy in the first 3 years as a true NFL GM evaluation the waters get a heck murkier. 

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On 4/5/2019 at 12:35 PM, bostonfred said:

I know you guys have been debating this a while but I think it's reasonable to say "quarterbacks under 6 feet have a serious disadvantage as pocket passers" and it's also reasonable to say "shorter, mobile quarterbacks can maneuver in the pocket to find clear passing lanes and extend plays in the nfl if they have the right coaching and arm talent".

It's true that there aren't many shorter quarterbacks in the hall of fame, but that's partly because teams rarely give shorter quarterbacks an opportunity to start.

It's unreasonable to think that every good short qb will be as good as Brees and Wilson - and murray is shorter than either. But it's also reasonable to think that he will get more opportunities than other short quarterbacks, especially if he goes number one overall.  

And while it's extremely rare for short quarterbacks to succeed, it's also extremely rare to find a player with the natural athleticism to be an elite two sport athlete - not just good but great at both sports. 

I totally agree with you that there's a real bust risk, and it doesn't make sense to take risks with the number one pick when there's legitimate star talent available at marquis positions. 

But I also don't blame anyone for chasing elite upside at quarterback, because a truly great quarterback can permanently redefine a franchise in a way that no other position can. 

de  Lafayette is my favorite marquis player.

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Can anyone speak to where they think Murray would/should go in rookie drafts for 1 QB leagues? I've seen anything from 1st round to low 2nd... 

That's quite a range. 

Maybe a better question is, where should he go compared to Mayfield last year?

Edited by Dr. Dan

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Believe it or not but mayfield went at 1.08 in my 1 QB league.  In fairness this was a weak owner who has quit now.

I am high on Murray and have picks 1.07,1.11,2.07,2.11

I was thinking 1.11 

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