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To prolife advocates. (2 Viewers)

NCCommish said:
So here's an interesting question if a fertilized egg is a person aren't we keeping thousands of people hostage all over this country? There are thousands of fertilized eggs in storage. In Alabama under their law a fertilized egg is a person. So when you do IVF and they insert several fertilized eggs most of which dont take, how many life sentences does the doctor get?
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Also, you should get to claim tax deductions for dependant.

 
NCCommish said:
So here's an interesting question if a fertilized egg is a person aren't we keeping thousands of people hostage all over this country? There are thousands of fertilized eggs in storage. In Alabama under their law a fertilized egg is a person. So when you do IVF and they insert several fertilized eggs most of which dont take, how many life sentences does the doctor get?
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I'd have really made out on my taxes while we were doing IVF.  We had 10 embryos on ice.  There are so many dumb questions that come up because of this "law".

 
All this talk about the rights and decision-making ability of the man and the woman. I’d like to get the perspective of the fetus. Sure, it cannot talk yet but it might have a point of view about getting an abortion. Wonder what it would want?

 
pecorino said:
All this talk about the rights and decision-making ability of the man and the woman. I’d like to get the perspective of the fetus. Sure, it cannot talk yet but it might have a point of view about getting an abortion. Wonder what it would want?
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Until it has at least a basically functioning brain it doesn’t want anything. 

 
pecorino said:
All this talk about the rights and decision-making ability of the man and the woman. I’d like to get the perspective of the fetus. Sure, it cannot talk yet but it might have a point of view about getting an abortion. Wonder what it would want?
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What does your sperm want? Do each of the millions want a shot at life? What about each egg a woman has?  

Sure, they can’t talk yet but I wonder what they’d want?

what about the kids of those sperm and eggs? Grandkids?

The voices of all the unborn are crying out to us that life is sacred. Protect all sperm and eggs.  No sperm left behind, no egg left behind, no chance at life left behind.  Let’s make this happen.  Funerals for every spermatozoa that doesn’t make it, for every egg unfertilized.

after all, do their potential voices not matter?

 
Henry Ford said:
Until it has at least a basically functioning brain it doesn’t want anything. 
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Thankfully we have the testimony of billions of people who were born and lived long enough to form opinions that may reflect what that fetus would want, were it to have the ability to speak. And the vast majority would prefer to have been born.

 
NCCommish said:
 More access to contraception.  
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A (more) perfect world is one where contraception is readily available so abortion becomes unnecessary.

This always drives me nuts about Planned Parenthood.  If they would split up their operations to isolate abortion care I'd support giving them 10x more money for preventative services.  But they insist on holding on to that unit as a political wedge and since money is fungible there are huge fights over funding them.  

Right now, sadly, I'd prefer they don't get a red cent.

 
The Commish said:
I'd have really made out on my taxes while we were doing IVF.  We had 10 embryos on ice.  There are so many dumb questions that come up because of this "law".
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IVF is about to become very popular in Alabama.   Talk about a tax dodge.

We never had issues so never had to go this route, but I can guarantee that there will be guys calling their CPAs to see if this is workable here.

 
Sand said:
A (more) perfect world is one where contraception is readily available so abortion becomes unnecessary.

This always drives me nuts about Planned Parenthood.  If they would split up their operations to isolate abortion care I'd support giving them 10x more money for preventative services.  But they insist on holding on to that unit as a political wedge and since money is fungible there are huge fights over funding them.  

Right now, sadly, I'd prefer they don't get a red cent.
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What % of their funding goes to abortion services?  Asking....I don't know.

 
pecorino said:
Thankfully we have the testimony of billions of people who were born and lived long enough to form opinions that may reflect what that fetus would want, were it to have the ability to speak. And the vast majority would prefer to have been born.
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It doesn’t matter if it could speak, it can’t want. 

 
IC FBGCav said:
Do you care as much about fetus as you do the baby?  

Show your work.  Killing a fetus is murder in your mind.  I get it. Show the fund and programs supporting the future of the fetus.  

How do you overcome parents having children they don't want?

Show me your path please.
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I thought once a pregnancy begins, literally every aspect of society see's that as a living human child from health care to laws protecting the unborn

only 1 law exists that allows for killing the unborn and ending its life thus terminating the pregnancy 

 
Stealthycat said:
I thought once a pregnancy begins, literally every aspect of society see's that as a living human child from health care to laws protecting the unborn

only 1 law exists that allows for killing the unborn and ending its life thus terminating the pregnancy 
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You thought all of society sees a fertilized egg as a living human child? 

 
Terminalxylem said:
Yep, the whole idea that women are aborting willy-nilly is absurd. It’s an emotionally charged decision and not exactly convenient.
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Statistics don't bear your assertion out. In 2015, there were 188 abortions for 1000 live births. As recently as 2010, this was over 225 abortions for every live birth.

In the great state of New York, 28.2% of all pregnancies end in abortion.

Half of the abortions reported in New York were performed on women who had had abortions previously. Twenty-three percent of the women reported one previous abortion, and 27 percent reported two or more. Forty percent had never had an abortion before, and ten percent were not accounted for by the abortion report.
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50% of women in NY were so reckless or callous they were willing to go through the procedure multiple times.

Of course, 50% of the women who abort in New York don't have to worry about paying, so maybe abortion's a better economic option than a $1.99 condom or the morning after pill.
 

In 2016, almost half of all abortions performed on New York residents were covered by Medicaid, and the state seeks to further compel New Yorkers to fund abortion.
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I don't love the source for the last two quotes. The Lozier Institute is not impartial.

However, in 2011:
 

Contraceptive use is a key predictor of whether a woman will have an abortion. In 2011, the very small group of American women who were at risk of experiencing an unintended pregnancy but were not using contraceptives accounted for the majority of abortions.
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Also in 2011, more babies were aborted than were spontaneously miscarried:
 

In 2011, the 63 million U.S. women of reproductive age (15–44) had six million pregnancies. Sixty-seven percent of these pregnancies resulted in live births and 18% in abortions; the remaining 15% ended in miscarriage.
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This is a better source: https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-new-york#2

While it may be an emotionally charged decision for some, the number of abortions and the number of repeat customers leads me to believe more than a few use abortion as a form of tax funded birth control.

 
Stealthycat said:
I thought once a pregnancy begins, literally every aspect of society see's that as a living human child from health care to laws protecting the unborn

only 1 law exists that allows for killing the unborn and ending its life thus terminating the pregnancy 
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Give it another try.  You don't come off clear here.

 
Trump Tight said:
Statistics don't bear your assertion out. In 2015, there were 188 abortions for 1000 live births. As recently as 2010, this was over 225 abortions for every live birth.

In the great state of New York, 28.2% of all pregnancies end in abortion.

50% of women in NY were so reckless or callous they were willing to go through the procedure multiple times.

Of course, 50% of the women who abort in New York don't have to worry about paying, so maybe abortion's a better economic option than a $1.99 condom or the morning after pill.
 

I don't love the source for the last two quotes. The Lozier Institute is not impartial.

However, in 2011:
 

Also in 2011, more babies were aborted than were spontaneously miscarried:
 

This is a better source: https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-new-york#2

While it may be an emotionally charged decision for some, the number of abortions and the number of repeat customers leads me to believe more than a few use abortion as a form of tax funded birth control.
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I think there are plenty of ignorant, irresponsible people in this world. A small subset of them may be consciously using abortion as cheap birth control, but it ain’t many.

 
Terminalxylem said:
I think there are plenty of ignorant, irresponsible people in this world. A small subset of them may be consciously using abortion as cheap birth control, but it ain’t many.
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Cheap birth control as in, "I'm not going to bother buying condoms, I'll just get an abortion"?  True, that would be rare.

Cheap birth control as in, "Whoops, we got drunk/high and careless and I just don't want to deal with this right now"?  The vast majority of abortions fall under this.

 
Jayrod said:
Cheap birth control as in, "I'm not going to bother buying condoms, I'll just get an abortion"?  True, that would be rare.

Cheap birth control as in, "Whoops, we got drunk/high and careless and I just don't want to deal with this right now"?  The vast majority of abortions fall under this.
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Definitely agree with statement 1. 2, notsomuch.

 
Jayrod said:
Cheap birth control as in, "I'm not going to bother buying condoms, I'll just get an abortion"?  True, that would be rare.

Cheap birth control as in, "Whoops, we got drunk/high and careless and I just don't want to deal with this right now"?  The vast majority of abortions fall under this.
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Israel and other nations we give money too have state sponsored abortions.  Should we cut off their funding?

 
IC FBGCav said:
Israel and other nations we give money too have state sponsored abortions.  Should we cut off their funding?
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So I'm a bit spooked....this exact thought about Israel came into my mind last night.  I've been a proponent of reducing funding for them for various things for quite a while, including this.  I'm curious what others have to say.  I doubt we get many direct answers to this from those not ok with abortion.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Do you care as much about fetus as you do the baby?  

Show your work.  Killing a fetus is murder in your mind.  I get it. Show the fund and programs supporting the future of the fetus.  

How do you overcome parents having children they don't want?

Show me your path please.
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Personally, we adopted a special needs child. Who is currently recovering from a transplant.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
You thought all of society sees a fertilized egg as a living human child? 
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Fwiw, 38 states that recognize the unlawful killing of an unborn child as homicide in at least some circumstances. 

They probably should, but it's weird that another person ending the pregnancy is murder, but it's okay for the mother to do it. That's more property rights based than anything else.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Do you care as much about fetus as you do the baby?  

Show your work.  Killing a fetus is murder in your mind.  I get it. Show the fund and programs supporting the future of the fetus.  

How do you overcome parents having children they don't want?

Show me your path please.
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Isn't the answer simply the father and mother pay for it, like any other baby. 

Of course the problem is that people have babies, wanted or unwanted, that they can't afford.  Continuing to allow abortion won't change that.  Either way the path is the same. 

What is the path for a "wanted" baby born to a family that can't afford it.  Maybe if there is no financially viable path with enough funding of programs we should just kill 'em, I mean we're talking about non thinking cells for crying out loud why are we allowing society to be burdened so unnecessarily to save nothings.

 
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IC FBGCav said:
How much funding did you get if any?
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Up front just a couple thousand in gift and donations.

I think $15,000 in tax credit. 

Total cost to us was just over $40,000. But that includes travel to China.

For her procedures, St Jude's covers everything insurance doesn't. 

 
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Henry Ford said:
pecorino said:
All this talk about the rights and decision-making ability of the man and the woman. I’d like to get the perspective of the fetus. Sure, it cannot talk yet but it might have a point of view about getting an abortion. Wonder what it would want?
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Until it has at least a basically functioning brain it doesn’t want anything. 
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Yes. Anyone who thinks a fetus has a point of view or wants something is simply personifying an object. I could have a wart, and say my wart has a point of view or wants something. Doing so is me personifying my wart. 

 
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