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FBG Movie Club: We're Getting the Band Back Together: Metallica vs Nina Simone Movie Docs (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ilov80s
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Very good guess but no. I think this will also examine a bit the use of technology as a means to access to private lives of others and how this not just impacts those being watched but also how it impacts those doing the watching.
Osaurus
Footballguy
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Truman Show would be a good one too.
I love the book, but have never seen a movie version of 1984. I think there is one on Prime, is it worth a watch?
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
I've only seen a few snippets of the one starring John Hurt, felt like it was a hot mess. Don't know anything about any other versions.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Be a good miniseries for one of the streaming companies right now. Movies do "horrible" well, but "insidious" takes more time
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Don Quixote
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The Conversation
The Lives of Others
The Lives of Others
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
Fair point. However, to me it would have been more timely on the heels of the Edward Snowden/WikiLeaks story when it broke.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I watched the regular version of H8 2 nights ago - but fell asleep before the final act.
@Ilov80s - the only thing that I recall seeing in the extended version that was not in the regular (first 3 parts) was a horrendous sequence right after Kurt Russel agreed to take Samuel Jackson in the coach. Instead of cutting to the wagon rolling along, we are allowed to watch Sam and the wagon driver discuss how to load the dead bodies.
It involves much discussion on the need for someone to hold the horses while he helps. After some exchange, they decide to ask Kurt to do it. After more discussion and reflection that it could be done, he agrees.
So - we are taught all the needed steps to rearrange duties in a manner that allows neither the horses nor the bounties to escape. It is a lot more complex a task than one would imagine.
Thanks QT!
Honestly, the other differences were not even noticeable to me - thus, I doubt they were overly good or bad. I preferred the regular version for the parts I was awake.
My vote remains a "C" = 3/5. I will not watch it again however.
@wikkidpissah - I was not able to find anything that would lead me to disagree with the points you made on the writing of QT.
@Ilov80s - the only thing that I recall seeing in the extended version that was not in the regular (first 3 parts) was a horrendous sequence right after Kurt Russel agreed to take Samuel Jackson in the coach. Instead of cutting to the wagon rolling along, we are allowed to watch Sam and the wagon driver discuss how to load the dead bodies.
It involves much discussion on the need for someone to hold the horses while he helps. After some exchange, they decide to ask Kurt to do it. After more discussion and reflection that it could be done, he agrees.
So - we are taught all the needed steps to rearrange duties in a manner that allows neither the horses nor the bounties to escape. It is a lot more complex a task than one would imagine.
Thanks QT!
Honestly, the other differences were not even noticeable to me - thus, I doubt they were overly good or bad. I preferred the regular version for the parts I was awake.
My vote remains a "C" = 3/5. I will not watch it again however.
@wikkidpissah - I was not able to find anything that would lead me to disagree with the points you made on the writing of QT.
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Eephus
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
It's interesting what changes the M7 filmmakers made to the source material. It's been a long time since I've seen Seven Samurai but I don't recall the bandit leader getting much screen time. Sturges and William Roberts bowed to genre conventions to personify evil in a villain. Eli Wallach's performance made the change worthwhile although his scene with the Seven created a dead end that could only be exited by opening a plot hole.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
You are correct on every account here. The role of Wallace as the bad buy really makes it a different movie imo and clearly separates it from S7.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I hate to disappoint you GB, but that would be a mistake on your part. While QT does write dialogue about loading bodies and holding horses... and about what needs to be planned for and considered when loading bodies and holding horses ... he never really answers or shows anything. We never even see the bodies being loaded. I bet QT don't even know how to do it.
So, I was being sarcastic with:
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.Man of Constant Sorrow said:
In return, if you ever do need to load up and transport some bodies, PM me ... I can help.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
A corpse transporter would be a lucrative profession in a Tarantino universe.
Eephus
Footballguy
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Don't feel bad. At first glance, it would not seem to matter what order the bodies and the stagecoach came in ... but ...
So, at a minimum you will need to feed & care for the horses and guard/maintain the coach. Why pay for and do all of that while trying to obtain some bodies?
Sure, it can be done - but as Sam would say, "No one said the job had to be hard."
Or expensive.
Now, if you could time the coach to run over your bounties ... well ... that would be a game changer.
Maybe you are better at this than I thought?
Can you drive a 6 horse team over 3 men at once, Eep?
Your answer may prove me wrong.
Eephus
Footballguy
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
It was very thoughtful of the great auteur to make a disqualifying error in this'n so i didn't have to rehash the usual criticisms that have made me Han Solo v. Imperial Troopers in so many FFA threads over the years. This time i was prepared to elevate my QT classification to group him w eat-my-#### filmmakers like Spike Lee & Oliver Stone, but he saved me the tripMan of Constant Sorrow said:
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Eephus
Footballguy
I don't think any app could have predicted what Travolta and Cage would look like 20 years later
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I, too, wanted Madame Tussaud as the face/hair consultant for my aging process, but i couldn't afford it. Wax/Off!
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Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
That is good.I really like the concept of this criticism too. The way that I read part of your analysis - is that QT went too modern in his characters and against part of the "frontier" mindset in the way they interacted without the artistic intent, purpose and potential end result that such a focused effort could have achieved . Please correct me if I am wrong or missing an important point. The reason that I bring this up, is that I believe it is linked to a comment that @Eephus made about the anachronistic dialog.
Way back when the original Deadwood series aired, I remember a discussion about the cursing. Oh, the epic cursing. Well, they really did not curse like that at the time, but the dialog was intentionally anachronistic in order to better shock the senses of the contemporary audience. I liked Deadwood, but this is not even really about that show. Rather, it is about any work of art that must decide on how to best communicate with the target audience.
So, while I can't argue with your criticism, I am curious on how and where the line is drawn in good art between poor choices of "unreality" (e.g. H8) versus good choices of "unreality" (e.g. Deadwood original). I don't expect an answer, but I suspect that someones answer will correlate with their own enjoyment of certain art versus other types.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I am a big fan and former horseplaying associate of Deadwood creator David Milch and found his dialogue there anachronistic but forgivable (tho not enjoyable) because it was done in an "arch" manner (my bad definition of that term: a stylized kind of writing that calls attention to its lack of naturalism). In H8, though, QT was simply caught with his pants down. 19th C perps have a dramatically different moral orientation than 20th/21st C ones do and yet he burdened his H8 characters with a mashup of outlaw & gangsta ethics which neither make sense nor the leap to arch status. Just bad, inauthentic, lazy, heedless work.
I really like the concept of this criticism too. The way that I read part of your analysis - is that QT went too modern in his characters and against part of the "frontier" mindset in the way they interacted without the artistic intent, purpose and potential end result that such a focused effort could have achieved . Please correct me if I am wrong or missing an important point. The reason that I bring this up, is that I believe it is linked to a comment that @Eephus made about the anachronistic dialog.
Way back when the original Deadwood series aired, I remember a discussion about the cursing. Oh, the epic cursing. Well, they really did not curse like that at the time, but the dialog was intentionally anachronistic in order to better shock the senses of the contemporary audience. I liked Deadwood, but this is not even really about that show. Rather, it is about any work of art that must decide on how to best communicate with the target audience.
So, while I can't argue with your criticism, I am curious on how and where the line is drawn in good art between poor choices of "unreality" (e.g. H8) versus good choices of "unreality" (e.g. Deadwood original). I don't expect an answer, but I suspect that someones answer will correlate with their own enjoyment of certain art versus other types.
ETA: I heartily agree with most of @Eephus's H8 criticisms
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jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo & I Spit On Your Grave?Ilov80s said:
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
It goes for too much, like everything does now, but the talent search was fun. not awful
Ilov80s
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
It's an internal debate with me about how much I can push it with the October selections. Gotta have some horror for Halloween, right?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
@Ilov80s and everybody else... HERE is an interesting link I found that had what all the extended footage was in the movies. It's a messy layout, but looks like it has all the minute details of the differences. This is the link to just EP1, but at the top you can click on the differences for the other 3 episodes too (where it reads "X deviations with a difference of X secs")
Looks like 1/2 of the extra stuff was in Episode 2.
Looks like 1/2 of the extra stuff was in Episode 2.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Absolutely has to be horror for October. I am hoping it's now a Saw double feature though.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Moonlight
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Even I am not that mean.
Maybe instead of the double feature we break with that format and do an entire series? How many Friday the 13ths are there??
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Thnx man. The only problem I have with the link is that it plainly shows how badly I exaggerated the scene about the bodies.
To be fair, it sure felt like a much longer exposition on the trials and tribulations of body loading and horse holding ... or perhaps I was just too stoned.
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Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Good answer. I have been thinking about how I try to draw the line in my own art and will try to add more thoughts tomorrow. I think a lot can be applied across art forms, but each has its own unique set of issues, imo.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I do want to add: I think this word is key in what I am looking to understand and define better ... along with its partner, "authentic".
Authenticity and Reality overlap in many ways, but I do not think they are true synonyms in the way we are using them here. For example, I believe in authentic unreality. If I understand you correctly, I think that you do too ... as with "arch".
I need to think of some other examples to hopefully make my thoughts clearer.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
My best friend coined the term for the way i like to think of storytelling - the "narrative truth". Jeff has seen a lot of my life, known all the principals, been part of some of the incidents, but majored in Lit in school and notices the differences between how it was and how i tell it. "It's like you live in the first & third person at the same time. The tales aren't tall, just cleaner than how they occurred".
Anybody that writes for others has to examine how they work, so i've thought about how i offer that which i offer. This is what i've surmised:
- The word must be more powerful than the reader. Reading is 2D, so writing must be 3D. The word must take into account all that led up to each moment and all the results of each moment, then integrate those back into the moment without changing it.
- Turns out, everything is moral. Morality fell into the hands of those whose motive was the power in lording it over others but, in forcing our way out of that, we threw the morality out with the moralizers. It's still there - whether it's the voice of god, a dynamism forced by the conflict between our physical & cerebral selves; an extrapersonal mathemathics like music, whatever. Understanding that a person freed of the burden of morals is merely lost is a big part of how i tell stories.
- Life is hilarious, and most of that humor comes from the variance between motive and result. Especially funny is reflecting back upon the motive behind the motive after a particularly disastrous result. Thing is, if one does that without love, it still comes back funny but also snide & not real. That's where i love my characters, whether in portrayal or conception. All my principals have gotten back on the horse at least once, and that's the love.
The application here is that all of QT's characters live, often quite literally, in a shooting gallery. Their mothers did not love them, so now they are no more than ducks in a game. It's both the flaw and the fascination of his work.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Looks like 80s is posting, so maybe this is a double post. AD was right, the next double feature is going to be:
The Conversation + The Lives of Others
This one was my pick, so @ me if you wanna fight about it!
The Conversation + The Lives of Others
This one was my pick, so @ me if you wanna fight about it!
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Thanks to everyone who contributed for the June movies. The discussions were insightful and enjoyable. Thanks as well to those who just voted or only had a post or 2 here. Hopefully everyone sticks around for the July movies and we get more of the great discussion we've had here and some new members joining the discussion.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
just re-watched LoO a couple wks ago (unfortunately, my initial impression barely improved), so no homework. got a LOT of wikkidgoopy stuff to say about the Conversation, though.Looks like 80s is posting, so maybe this is a double post. AD was right, the next double feature is going to be:
The Conversation + The Lives of Others
This one was my pick, so @ me if you wanna fight about it!
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh wow. I might be totally in for this. Somebody said the magic word, and I jumped.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks. In all seriousness, I remember the reviews from The Lives Of Others and renting it but not watching it a little over a decade ago. Should be interesting. I remember some of the themes even had having never seen it because critical reaction in the then-merely-floundering weeklies was strong.
