Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Bank error in your favor. Spend it, Pass Go and go directly to Jail (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Captain Cranks
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
Banks should cover it. But then again, we bailed them out to the tune of 700 billion dollars and only the taxpayers got robbed.
THEY PAID IT BACK!
Yeah, right. Shut up preemptively.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
When I play, I always turn down the $200 and tell the banker.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I think the couple probably had the same initial thought everyone in that position would have which is, "Whoa...do you think we'd be able to keep this and they don't find out?" Unfortunately, they were too stupid to answer that question with, "No."
rockaction
Footballguy
Cover the deposit or just remove it and notify the patrons. Certainly do not count on good faith. What if they got all bank receipts garnisheed? Why should the couple have to explain away $120,000 to any creditors or persons of the law.
This sounds like another way for banks to #### up and pass the duty onto consumers. Our legislators should be embarrassed that this can happen.
tommyboy
Footballguy
if they were smart they could have waited a couple three years, then closed their accounts and transferred it all to a new bank. Doubtful it ever would have been caught.
my guess is their daily spending went up so much it created a red flag situation that then alerted the bank to investigate.
my guess is their daily spending went up so much it created a red flag situation that then alerted the bank to investigate.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
My buddy had a couple of interesting thoughts on this.
1. What amount would have to be erroneously deposited in your account before it's not considered a felony. If you saw $20 go in your account and didn't say anything, is that a felony? $500? $2,500?
2. Ethics aside, how much would you have to have mistakenly deposited in your account to take it and expatriate yourself from this country?
1. What amount would have to be erroneously deposited in your account before it's not considered a felony. If you saw $20 go in your account and didn't say anything, is that a felony? $500? $2,500?
2. Ethics aside, how much would you have to have mistakenly deposited in your account to take it and expatriate yourself from this country?
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe Summer
Footballguy
The problem is that when you sign up to get the account in the first place, you promise not to spend any money that is erroneously deposited into the account. So, they were definitely in violation of their contract.
Also, they made a mistake by admitting that they knew that the money wasn't theirs. They should have lawyered up immediately.
Also, they made a mistake by admitting that they knew that the money wasn't theirs. They should have lawyered up immediately.
rockaction
Footballguy
1. No idea. This is why the banks should be responsible for this.
2. I think you mean to expatriate one's self. Exile is a political punishment.
rockaction
Footballguy
They're still not lawyered up if my Spidey senses are on track. They're talking to the media, telling them what was spent.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
SDJohnny
Footballguy
1. If the amount stolen is over $2,000, or the property stolen is a vehicle, vessel or airplane of any kind the charge is a second degree felony. If the stolen property is a firearm, it is a first degree felony. If the amount involved was $50 to less than $200, the charge is a third degree misdemeanor.
Pennsylvania Theft / Larceny Law - FindLaw
2. $250K,
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The article mentions this. They discovered the error when researching the missing money from the rightful depositor's account.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Yeah...there was always going to be complaints from the guy who should have received the money.
mr. furley
Footballguy
currently dealing with this situation as part of my job. party who erroneously received the funds (much less than $120k) emptied the account and is refusing to acknowledge the bank's attempts to contact them for permission (yes, permission) to return funds that are not theirs in the first place.
going on a month with no response
going on a month with no response
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I don't agree but I have a hypothetical for you...
Let's say they discovered the error one day after making the deposit. The money is still in the wrong account. Do you think they should have to leave it there? Is it only when someone spends it that they should be able to keep it?
-OZ-
Footballguy
Explains why the police were called.currently dealing with this situation as part of my job. party who erroneously received the funds (much less than $120k) emptied the account and is refusing to acknowledge the bank's attempts to contact them for permission (yes, permission) to return funds that are not theirs in the first place.
going on a month with no response
If the couple had just responded and worked with the bank, would there be a criminal complaint?
Small amount erroneously deposited? I might just let it sit there, but with any large amount you know the bank will discover it eventually.
-OZ-
Footballguy
No. Consider it a loan, maybe even give them the best rate possible after a grace period.
But these people stopped taking calls from the bank.
Zow
Footballguy
The answer to this is super jurisdiction dependent, but in my jurisdiction it would have to be for over a particular sum of money (I believe > $1k).
Regardless, it's still very likely some form of theft to knowingly spend money that you knew or should have known was errantly given to you.
rockaction
Footballguy
I guess my frustration stems not from a logical source, but a nebulous dislike for the ways and methods by which modern banking seeks to be more fluid in its movement and transfer of funds. It seems that amounts significant enough to invoke a penalty of a felony should be safeguarded to a greater extent than they are.
It's like the police would say if you made an error about a mistake in law. You're responsible for your mistaken knowledge of the law and if you can't do the crime (stomach the loss) don't do the time (use a faulty banking system.)
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Based on their behavior, I strongly doubt they were in a financial position to pay that much back.
rockaction
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
If it routinely comes out of insurance policies, bank's premiums increase. They then can pass that increased expense onto their customers though worse rates and fees.
I'd rather have people not spend money that isn't theirs.
McJose
Footballguy
To be totally honest I probably wouldn't even notice an extra $500 or $120,000 in my statement.
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I'd rather banks use their privilege and position to get the withdrawals and deposits correct.
I say that the policies would really get locked down if the burden wasn't passed onto the consumer, much like investing in harebrained investments wouldn't have happened if they didn't know they were getting bailed out.
They learned nothing from that. Not sure where they'll learn anything but the feeling that they're in the right for ####### up a basic deposit, and it sounds like they have people on their side. #### that. Spend it. Their fault, they owe the money.
rockaction
Footballguy
We already apparently have a privately-run, publicly subsidized system of banking anyway.
As they'd say it in Olde English...Publickly Subsidised, Privately Profitable
As they'd say it in Olde English...Publickly Subsidised, Privately Profitable
-OZ-
Footballguy
I like the relative ease of transferring funds without the bank taking weeks to confirm.
rockaction
Footballguy
So the onus of getting it right is diffused onto everybody, up to and around a grand or two. No way. Everyone in it together, and merry ho for responsibility. Uh uh. I personally don't like it that way. Funds in that amount should take a week or so to process.
rockaction
Footballguy
I've easily had checks at times constituting over thousands of dollars that I had no idea where they were -- what account, what area, in my bedroom, cashed, deposited, etc.
I led a hectic life when I was busy and it was not my responsibility to do the bank's banking for them.
I led a hectic life when I was busy and it was not my responsibility to do the bank's banking for them.
Zow
Footballguy
Nobody is suggesting it's a crime to be the recipient of money that isn't yours.
It is, however, a crime to knowingly spend money that isn't yours that you knew shouldn't have been given to you.
I really don't understand why this is controversial for you.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I acknowledge your distrust and disdain of the big banks. Do you feel the same about smaller local community banks and credit unions? Should they not be able to reverse errors either?
Zow
Footballguy
Nobody is suggesting that it is.
However, it seems unreasonable to suggest that these people either didn't know or shouldn't have known that they were mistakenly given $120k and then spent it.
Had they only been given $120 by mistake then it seems totally reasonable they didn't even realize it and innocently spent it. But, unless this account was like the main Amazon business account, it seems unreasonable to think that the recipient wouldn't notice and wonder about an additional $120k.
rockaction
Footballguy
Because the amount one can either be charged with a felony for or considered to owe is such an easy threshold.
It's controversial for me in the same way using the force of law over a mistake should be completely controversial to you.
Not quite the same in emotive intent, and consumers can make that choice to join those types of banks of unions while bearing the burden of their practices, both positively and negatively. Plus, laws can be adjusted for banks at certain thresholds of cash inputs and outlays.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Did you ever see some large amount in your account and simply say "Christmas came early, let's spend it all immediately!!!"
The couple isn't criminal for spending money they thought was theirs. They clearly knew it wasn't, spent it anyway.
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Not 120K, that's for sure. But I'm sure there are people that deal with a lot of banking that have hit felony thresholds innocently and have wound up having to pay the banks back for it.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
The "mistake" of knowingly spending money that isn't yours, then ignoring the bank as it apparently is trying to work with you to correct their mistake?
rockaction
Footballguy
Anyway, I'm not sure what my solution is, but I'm nothing if not on the side of the people.
Power to 'em!
Power to 'em!
-OZ-
Footballguy
I'd be shocked if someone was actually charged with a felony unless they've taken active steps to keep the funds.
Zow
Footballguy
Obviously each situation is fact specific and investigators presumable would use discretion. And the government still has the burden of proof.
rockaction
Footballguy
Actively charged with a felony and hitting the threshold is a matter of one ambitious prosecutor away. I'd rather keep it away from an ambitious prosecutor.
By the way, if there's suspicion that I'm coming at this from a drug dealing angle, I most certainly am.
rockaction
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Same here - especially if that same party then didn't communicate and try in good faith to resolve the error.
And it's basically my job to be critical of prosecutorial overcharging.
