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On a scale of 1 (board completely mirrors the general public) to 10 (board completely does NOT mirror the public), what number would you say? (1 Viewer)

On a scale of 1 (board completely mirrors the general public) to 10 (board completely does NOT mirro

  • 1 - completely mirrors the general public

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 3

    Votes: 4 4.4%

  • 4

    Votes: 10 11.0%

  • 5

    Votes: 5 5.5%

  • 6

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • 7

    Votes: 24 26.4%

  • 8

    Votes: 22 24.2%

  • 9

    Votes: 10 11.0%

  • 10 - completely does NOT mirror the public

    Votes: 12 13.2%
  • Total voters
    91
S

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
I made a comment in one of the Trump threads that the board does not mirror the public, and @Joe Bryant responded with the following comment/question:

I'm fascinated with the 3rd point. "This board may not mirror the general public exactly".

On a scale of 1 (board completely mirrors the general public) to 10 (board completely does NOT mirror the public), what number would you say?

So, rather than derail that thread, I figured I would throw it open to the Political Forum crowd at large.

From my perspective - its a rather odd question to try an nail down - but I don't think its controversial to say the board demographics - specifically Politics Forums, but probably FFA in general, is not indicative of the public.

1.  Board is predominantly male.  General public is roughly 50-50 - if I had to guess I would say the board is 95%+ male - depending on how many Tanner aliases you count.

2.  Sitting behind a computer screen where some of us prefer dark, and some prefer white - its hard to get a ethnicity breakdown - but my guess is that we skew white - more so than the general public.

3.  Education-wise, I think the board skews heavily towards college-educated, or beyond.

4.  Age - we are not getting younger, and we don't get many new visitors to this part of the innerwebs - so I think we would skew slightly older - but in reality we may be close to the median, but with a truncated graph - losing both the young and old tails.

5.  Rural/Urban - a quick google search shows that 19% of the population lives in a rural area*.   I would guess that we have fewer rural residents in our midst - just based on the nature of an on-line community that is more conducive to someone working in an office.

So, at a starting point, I think the average user here is a 40ish white male, with a college degree, living in an urban setting.

And, this is before we get to political leanings.  But, even there, I think we can take the board demographics to draw meaningful conclusions - for example, when we do Dem candidate polls Mayor Pete almost always significantly outperforms his national polling - because he appeals to older white college-educated males.

White Males would tend to skew GOP/Trump, but that is counter-weighted by Urban college-educated which would skew Dem/Anti-Trump.  From a political perspective, I think we lean more Center-Left than the general public, and we don't really have much perspective from women, or people of color.

So, I don't think we get a fair representation of "Trump Supporter" - which national polls suggest is about 40% - that leads to the persecution complex felt by those that do support Trump, but are vastly outnumbered in this community.

*The U.S. Census Bureau defines rural as what is not urban—that is, after defining individual urban areas, rural is what is left.  :shrug:

 
Not sure what you are asking.  Are you strictly talking demographics or are you asking about political leanings?

 
Joe Bryant said:
What is your answer?
Click to expand...
From my perspective - its a rather odd question to try an nail down - but I don't think its controversial to say the board demographics - specifically Politics Forums, but probably FFA in general, is not indicative of the public.

1.  Board is predominantly male.  General public is roughly 50-50 - if I had to guess I would say the board is 95%+ male - depending on how many Tanner aliases you count.

2.  Sitting behind a computer screen where some of us prefer dark, and some prefer white - its hard to get a ethnicity breakdown - but my guess is that we skew white - more so than the general public.

3.  Education-wise, I think the board skews heavily towards college-educated, or beyond.

4.  Age - we are not getting younger, and we don't get many new visitors to this part of the innerwebs - so I think we would skew slightly older - but in reality we may be close to the median, but with a truncated graph - losing both the young and old tails.

5.  Rural/Urban - a quick google search shows that 19% of the population lives in a rural area*.   I would guess that we have fewer rural residents in our midst - just based on the nature of an on-line community that is more conducive to someone working in an office.

So, at a starting point, I think the average user here is a 40ish white male, with a college degree, living in an urban setting.

And, this is before we get to political leanings.  But, even there, I think we can take the board demographics to draw meaningful conclusions - for example, when we do Dem candidate polls Mayor Pete almost always significantly outperforms his national polling - because he appeals to older white college-educated males.

White Males would tend to skew GOP/Trump, but that is counter-weighted by Urban college-educated which would skew Dem/Anti-Trump.  From a political perspective, I think we lean more Center-Left than the general public, and we don't really have much perspective from women, or people of color.

So, I don't think we get a fair representation of "Trump Supporter" - which national polls suggest is about 40% - that leads to the persecution complex felt by those that do support Trump, but are vastly outnumbered in this community.

If you are looking for an exact number - :shrug:

In some ways, its a binary question - either it mirrors the public or it does not. 

I think the above gives you my indication how this board skews relative to the general public - we are skewed towards the views of a college-educated White male, living in an Urban setting.

I am certain we don't get the views of women.  I am confident we don't get the full views of minorities - black, Asian, Hispanic, other.  I don't think we get good representation of rural views.  I don't think we get good representation of non-college views.  I don't think we get good representation of millennial views.

I am not sure what else you are looking for - If Trump has a true base of say 30% of the public - I don't think you see 30% of the posters here who would be happy to describe themselves as Trump's base supporters - so I think that view is under-represented - but I think that is covered in the under-representation of the groups I listed above.

 
For clarity, this is your post I responded to:

A few points - 

1.  The inquiry has not always had a lot of public support - that support has grown as the facts have come out.

2.  Trump has always been unpopular - he lost the popular vote in the election - but being unpopular does not lead to support for impeachment - see the Russian investigation 

3.  This board may not mirror the general public exactly - but there was a sizable group that suggested this particular scandal would not have public support for an impeachment inquiry - and they pointed to polls at the time, and to the polls following the Mueller report.  Several posters countered that both the speed and simplicity of this scandal made it much easier for the public to both understand and support the impeachment inquiry.  As the days have gone by - support has grown, as shown by the latest polls.
Click to expand...


The context for this was political.

I've little interest in how the board relates to the public demographically with age or race or gender. 

I'm talking about politically.

 
I like Sinn’s analysis but he left out possibly the most important part - this board’s moderation.  The expectation would be that the political leanings at FFToday would be similar to here but in fact it’s the polar opposite.

 
Joe Bryant said:
For clarity, this is your post I responded to:

The context for this was political.

I've little interest in how the board relates to the public demographically with age or race or gender. 

I'm talking about politically.
Click to expand...
Right - but you can't really separate the two - demographics tie into who we are politically - when looking at a large group - such as board membership.

So, when we run polls that show Pete Buttigieg far-outpacing his national polling - we can look to the board demographics and see that we over-sample older, educated white-males from urban areas - and that is a group that skews toward Mayor Pete.

SO, I can take that information and make an educated guess - that politically, we are going to "mirror" what the 35-55 educated white male living in an urban area looks like.   That is not the same - or even close to - what the general public looks like.

This feels like you are just itching for an argument, when there really is nothing to argue about - nothing here is breaking new ground.  This seems out of character for you. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
From my perspective - its a rather odd question to try an nail down - but I don't think its controversial to say the board demographics - specifically Politics Forums, but probably FFA in general, is not indicative of the public.

1.  Board is predominantly male.  General public is roughly 50-50 - if I had to guess I would say the board is 95%+ male - depending on how many Tanner aliases you count.

2.  Sitting behind a computer screen where some of us prefer dark, and some prefer white - its hard to get a ethnicity breakdown - but my guess is that we skew white - more so than the general public.

3.  Education-wise, I think the board skews heavily towards college-educated, or beyond.

4.  Age - we are not getting younger, and we don't get many new visitors to this part of the innerwebs - so I think we would skew slightly older - but in reality we may be close to the median, but with a truncated graph - losing both the young and old tails.

5.  Rural/Urban - a quick google search shows that 19% of the population lives in a rural area*.   I would guess that we have fewer rural residents in our midst - just based on the nature of an on-line community that is more conducive to someone working in an office.

So, at a starting point, I think the average user here is a 40ish white male, with a college degree, living in an urban setting.

And, this is before we get to political leanings.  But, even there, I think we can take the board demographics to draw meaningful conclusions - for example, when we do Dem candidate polls Mayor Pete almost always significantly outperforms his national polling - because he appeals to older white college-educated males.

White Males would tend to skew GOP/Trump, but that is counter-weighted by Urban college-educated which would skew Dem/Anti-Trump.  From a political perspective, I think we lean more Center-Left than the general public, and we don't really have much perspective from women, or people of color.

So, I don't think we get a fair representation of "Trump Supporter" - which national polls suggest is about 40% - that leads to the persecution complex felt by those that do support Trump, but are vastly outnumbered in this community.

If you are looking for an exact number - :shrug:

In some ways, its a binary question - either it mirrors the public or it does not. 

I think the above gives you my indication how this board skews relative to the general public - we are skewed towards the views of a college-educated White male, living in an Urban setting.

I am certain we don't get the views of women.  I am confident we don't get the full views of minorities - black, Asian, Hispanic, other.  I don't think we get good representation of rural views.  I don't think we get good representation of non-college views.  I don't think we get good representation of millennial views.

I am not sure what else you are looking for - If Trump has a true base of say 30% of the public - I don't think you see 30% of the posters here who would be happy to describe themselves as Trump's base supporters - so I think that view is under-represented - but I think that is covered in the under-representation of the groups I listed above.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a complicated question.

In a political context, you said "This board may not mirror the general public exactly"

I think that's like saying "Pete Buttigieg may not mirror Donald Trump exactly."

I don't think this board is like the general public at all. 

I voted 8.

Comparing two things is pretty common. A scale helps. I suggested the scale for comparing two things (the Political forum and the general public's political leaning) would range from being exactly alike, or mirroring, as a 1. And being completely different, or completely not mirroring, as a 10.

Spending this much time not answering the question is interesting. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
For clarity, this is your post I responded to:

The context for this was political.

I've little interest in how the board relates to the public demographically with age or race or gender. 

I'm talking about politically.
Click to expand...
You can’t separate these though. Give me someone’s age/income/race/location and I’ve got a good idea of where they likely land politically. Not deterministically but it’s predictable. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I don't think it's a complicated question.

In a political context, you said "This board may not mirror the general public exactly"

I think that's like saying "Pete Buttigieg may not mirror Donald Trump exactly."

I don't think this board is like the general public at all. 

I voted 8.

Comparing two things is pretty common. A scale helps. I suggested the scale for comparing two things (the Political forum and the general public's political leaning) would range from being exactly alike, or mirroring, as a 1. And being completely different, or completely not mirroring, as a 10.

Spending this much time evading the question is interesting. 
Click to expand...
This board is left of center. More far-lefties than far-righties. Average I’d say center-left. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
This feels like you are just itching for an argument, when there really is nothing to argue about - nothing here is breaking new ground.  This seems out of character for you. 
Click to expand...
That's interesting. I've no itch for an argument. As I said from the very start, I'm fascinated by your observation. I try to be as direct as possible. 

I tried to get a clear understanding of where you were coming from and even defined a scale to put some measure to it. 

And that somehow turned into a bunch more typing with no more clarity. :shrug:  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I like Sinn’s analysis but he left out possibly the most important part - this board’s moderation.  The expectation would be that the political leanings at FFToday would be similar to here but in fact it’s the polar opposite.
Click to expand...
I never was a part of FFToday but someone linked a thread there several months ago and I got sucked into reading some of their threads for a hour or so.

Is that your point?  That the heavier a board is moderated (other things equal) the more liberal it will become?  I don't think you mean that FBG is moderated in favor of liberals although I've read that claim from others.

If not, what other reasons can account for the difference?

It's interesting to think about.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
That's interesting. I've no itch for an argument. As I said from the very start, I'm fascinated by your observation. I try to be as direct as possible. 

I tried to get a clear understanding of where you were coming from and even defined a scale to put some measure to it. 

And that somehow turned into a bunch more typing with no more clarity. :shrug:  
Click to expand...
:shrug:

Its a question that can't be easily quantified on a 1-10 scale.

As I said above - in many ways its a binary question - Does the board mirror the public?  Yes?  No?

If you answer no - the better response is to talk about how it is different than simply assign a random number that provides no insights into how you arrive at that number.  For me, the interesting aspect is in the reasoning, not the answer.

What does 8 mean to you?

What do you think 5 means to someone else?

Numbers don't tell me anything - and I don't want to waste my time giving you cursory conclusions, when I can provide a deeper explanation.

 
mr roboto said:
This board is left of center. More far-lefties than far-righties. Average I’d say center-left. 
Click to expand...
I agree with this, but I'm not sure how that equates to an answer to this poll.  I guess if 1 is sample = population, I'd go 3, but tbh I don't know what conclusion you can draw from 3 or  5 or 7 or whatever.  

 
Sinn Fein said:
So, when we run polls that show Pete Buttigieg far-outpacing his national polling - we can look to the board demographics and see that we over-sample older, educated white-males from urban areas - and that is a group that skews toward Mayor Pete.

SO, I can take that information and make an educated guess - that politically, we are going to "mirror" what the 35-55 educated white male living in an urban area looks like.   That is not the same - or even close to - what the general public looks like.
Click to expand...
But this board favors Mayor Pete far more than a random sampling of 35-55 educated white miles living in an urban area.

 
I went with a 10 for most of the reasons SF laid out. If we are going by political views only, I'd put it at an 8 or 9. 

 
Max Power said:
I went with a 10 for most of the reasons SF laid out. If we are going by political views only, I'd put it at an 8 or 9. 
Click to expand...
Perhaps I don't understand the question, but how you can rate a board that's mostly liberal as not mirroring a mostly liberal public?

 
Sinn Fein said:
:shrug:

Its a question that can't be easily quantified on a 1-10 scale.

As I said above - in many ways its a binary question - Does the board mirror the public?  Yes?  No?

If you answer no - the better response is to talk about how it is different than simply assign a random number that provides no insights into how you arrive at that number.  For me, the interesting aspect is in the reasoning, not the answer.

What does 8 mean to you?

What do you think 5 means to someone else?

Numbers don't tell me anything - and I don't want to waste my time giving you cursory conclusions, when I can provide a deeper explanation.
Click to expand...
I'll answer your questions then drop this. This much avoiding is actually more of an answer than a number.

*****

I think it's relatively easy to quantify on a scale how much alike two things are. Of course, it's not perfect. But it's not difficult.

Since I set up the scale as 1 to be a mirror or completely alike and 10 to be completely not alike, an 8 would mean I think it's mostly not alike. 

A 5 would be halfway between completely alike and completely not alike. 

I'm sorry but I've got to bow out now and get back to work. Footballguys staying in business means this board can stay in business. 

 
Juxtatarot said:
But this board favors Mayor Pete far more than a random sampling of 35-55 educated white miles living in an urban area.
Click to expand...
Yes/no

Most of the polling we do around that self-selects "who would you vote for in Dem primary" and that mostly excludes people who would not vote in the Dem primary.

But, I would also add one more qualifying factor - that I think contributes to that skew - on this board in particular, political engagement is much higher than in the population as a whole - and so I think that also skews voting habits.

 
Joe Bryant said:
This much avoiding is actually more of an answer than a number.
Click to expand...
See - this kind of passive-aggressive crap is what I am talking about.  I have gone over and beyond simply answering your question with a number - and yet you seem hung up on this idea that I am not answering your question - simply because I am not giving you an irrelevant number.

Its bizarre, and not in keeping with what I consider to be your excellent self.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think the above gives you my indication how this board skews relative to the general public - we are skewed towards the views of a college-educated White male, living in an Urban setting.

I am certain we don't get the views of women.  I am confident we don't get the full views of minorities - black, Asian, Hispanic, other.  I don't think we get good representation of rural views.  I don't think we get good representation of non-college views.  I don't think we get good representation of millennial views.

I am not sure what else you are looking for - If Trump has a true base of say 30% of the public - I don't think you see 30% of the posters here who would be happy to describe themselves as Trump's base supporters - so I think that view is under-represented - but I think that is covered in the under-representation of the groups I listed above.
Click to expand...
I really agree with this, in particular the bolded. The fact that this board grew up around fantasy football generally locks it into a certain demographic -- and boards with more diverse demographics are way different in overall perspective (boards in general have their own personalities in lots of ways). 

 
Captain Cranks said:
Perhaps I don't understand the question, but how you can rate a board that's mostly liberal as not mirroring a mostly liberal public?
Click to expand...
I still think a solid 45% of America is conservative. I dont see this forum at the same %. 

As others have said the mayor Pete vote isnt proportionate. We have very little actual Biden supporters here. 

So I dont think even the liberal side of this forum represents current polling numbers for candidates. 

 
Max Power said:
I still think a solid 45% of America is conservative. I dont see this forum at the same %. 

As others have said the mayor Pete vote isnt proportionate. We have very little actual Biden supporters here. 

So I dont think even the liberal side of this forum represents current polling numbers for candidates. 
Click to expand...
Interestingly, 45% of Americans have no college degree

55% have Associate, Bachelors, Masters, or Doctorate

 
Joe Bryant said:
I think it's relatively easy to quantify on a scale how much alike two things are. Of course, it's not perfect. But it's not difficult.
Click to expand...
You think differently than myself as I find such questions impossible.  I'd be "avoiding" the question also not because I'm trying to tip toe around some non answer but because whatever makes this relatively easy to pick a value for your mind doesn't exist in mine.

 
This board mirrors my Facebook newsfeed in the sense of the true definition of “mirror” - a reflection where right is left and left is right. 

 
Since this was posted in the PSF I assumed we were talking politics and my answer is 7.   If we were discussing just in general I would go 9.

 
Sinn Fein said:
See - this kind of passive-aggressive crap is what I am talking about.  I have gone over and beyond simply answering your question with a number - and yet you seem hung up on this idea that I am not answering your question - simply because I am not giving you an irrelevant number.

Its bizarre, and not in keeping with what I consider to be your excellent self.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to hear you think that's crap. Was trying to write what I was seeing. 

But thanks for the other thoughts on the topic. I think reading through it seems like you do see the board as very different from the population at large. With huge segments under represented or not represented at all. That's why it caught my attention when you said it wasn't an exact mirror. In my opinion, it's way more than that. It's not remotely close to a mirror. And I'm probably more sensitive to this than some as I spend a good bit of time trying to reconcile the FFA and Political Forum with the world I see as a whole and also experience personally. 

Thanks for the feedback and I apologize for trying to have you rank the comparison with a number. I can see how that wasn't fair to ask people to do that if they don't think of it that way. 

 
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I voted 8.  Way more liberal than the general public.  

Republicans are busy running the world.  We'll let the libs dominate the internet messageboard scene.

 
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Juxtatarot said:
But this board favors Mayor Pete far more than a random sampling of 35-55 educated white miles living in an urban area.
Click to expand...
But not more than a random sampling of 35-55 educated white males living in an urban area who spend most of their time chained to a computer, engaging with other humans outside work only in a microscopic online community.

 
The board is probably wealthier, whiter, and significantly more men than the public. If anything it should trend conservative vs the general public.

 
I think the country is pretty liberal right now. 2018 was a really Democratic Wave and I expect the same in 2020. 

But we’re not leftist. 

 
Yankee23Fan said:
I want to walk up to half of the men in my church with their facebook posts on my phone and slap them with the phone.

Yeah, I'm in a mood.
Click to expand...
I hear you. Can you elaborate? 

I'm assuming you don't literally mean half the men. How big an issue is it really? I find at my church, the majority of my male friends aren't on Facebook. I can think of just a couple that post FB things that I think don't matchup with following Christ. But it's super frustrating. I'm with you on the mood. 

Do you have a strategy for dealing with it? I've had a couple of times when I've said something. It's super tough as nobody likes being corrected. Do you have insights there you've seen?

 
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Joe Bryant said:
I hear you. Can you elaborate? 

I've had a couple of times when I've said something. It's super tough as nobody likes being corrected. Do you have insights there you've seen?
Click to expand...
Corrected them for using the phone in an inappropriate place or a differing opinion than yours? 

 
I'm over 60, have two college degrees and two post graduate degrees.  I grew up rural and am now suburban though I work for a City.  I consider myself conservative and a Constitutionalist, but not conservative as the matter has come to be understood recently.  When we had signatures on this board I use to use one that said I am fiscally conservative, constitutionally founded, and socially laissez faire.  I claimed I did not care how others fornicate, recreate, or intoxicate so long as I am left out of the splash zone of their activities.  I believe in attempting to treat others with patience and dignity in all matters though I am not by nature a patient or tolerant fellow.  I am so conservative that it appears to the new wave Trump conservatives that I am extremely liberal since I found my political beliefs in the Constitution and laws, and not in the desires for dominion of a simple, disorganized, and venal man. 

I enjoy this board for the tolerance and direction that Joe provides and for the intelligence and humanity of folks like Henry Ford, BigBottom and Sinn Fein.  I come for the humor and enlightenment I can get from the Yankeefan23's of the board and for many others, too numerous to list individually.  For that I tolerate the presence of some others and try to not get entangled in their games.  I come here to read and maybe learn form my betters and to use them as a sounding board. 

 
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The political makeup of this forum is not about demographics.  The demographics of the PSF vs. the FFA seem to be nearly identical.  However, polling in the FFA generally mimiced the public fairly well with the exception there were social liberal leanings and a slight bias towards fiscal conservatism. The PSF forum has moved towards a very strong anti-Trump make-up, currently about 19 to 1, whereas the general public is more like 5 to 4.  Because of that, the bias in the PSF now leans towards fiscal liberalism and even more strongly towards social liberalism.  The correlation between Trump supporters and conservatives are far from one, but there still is a correlation.  The idea that this anti-Trump shift is because the pro-Trump side is undefensible seems to be the dominant theory that is widely accepted here.  I would suggest (and it is supported by numerous PM's over the last few years) that it is due to the hostility directed towards Trump supporters, which at times is ignored by the moderators.  But I suppose the anti-Trump people on this forum far better understand how Trump supporters actually feel than the Trump supporters themselves.  

 
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