Neighbor cut down our tree

[DJackson10 1,803]

On 10/17/2019 at 10:57 AM, gianmarco said:

Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 

This guy sounds like a complete snake. I haven't read through this whole thread yet and if he already offered something or whatever to you don't take it. Quiet obvious he's trying to take advantage of you or you don't know how this all works out. I would get some lawyers together if not already just in case. This guy will low ball you and when that happens you can tell him thanks but no thanks and the next time you hear from me is through my lawyers contacting you. 

[DJackson10 1,803]

On 10/22/2019 at 9:57 AM, gianmarco said:

Not much happening. Met with him briefly as he wanted to discuss cutting back some of the brush/foliage toward the back. He's going to do what he can to preserve what's on our side.

As for the tree, he's going to look into some replacements by talking to his landscaper and will get back to us by the end of the week. That's when we get to see where he is with this.

He at least seems to understand that he can't come in and just start doing what he wants along the property line. And at the same time, I'm ok with him trying to accomplish what he needs to get what he wants in his side within reason. 

I think we will get there. Conversations have been quite cordial so I'm confident this will get resolved between us.

Big win for you that he knows he can't just come in and do what he wants and push you around. You are showing him you mean business and don't mess with you. I wouldn't get lawyers unless you need to but usually if needed just mentioning involving lawyers changing these clowns opinions fast. Not only does it make them lose money but it gives their business bad PR. He doesn't want to be the VP of a construction company who the first thing is said about him is he's a d-bag neighbor who tried to F a new neighbor over. Doesn't look good on him nor his business. Simple taking care of it and a hey I messed up sorry let me do what I can to make this right looks way better for him 

[DJackson10 1,803]

13 hours ago, gianmarco said:

It was a hired job, but they didn't look like any kind of reputable tree company.  It was 2 guys with a pickup truck.  No company name or anything on his truck.  I have his license plate number but that's it. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he hired them is that they weren't going to question taking down that tree.  The arborist I dealt with explained to me he wouldn't have taken it down without a survey. 

I haven't delved into who they work for (if anyone) but may have to.  I've read your posts and have kept that in mind.  I've just been hopeful the neighbor will take care of this until this point.

I really don't want to be that guy but figure out who he hired. Talk to them see what they say. If its reasonable to ask for compensation then try getting it. Also where these guys foreign looking like SPainish etc types that usually do these jobs with non reputable companies? if so you can find out how legit the business is and if they are also here legally. If they are not legit and here illegally that's even more trouble he's getting in as well. Again I'm not saying to do this just because. You need to look at all your options here. 

[Beef Ravioli 824]

8 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I say it depends how long the contractor plans on staying. Did he buy the property to fix it up and flip it or is he staying. If he's just flipping it I might make more of a stink then if he was staying. VP of a construction company is a pretty big deal. Right now it sounds like an honest mistake possible on the tree companies end but having a dad in construction and a brother who's an architect engineer for a big firm in Philly I've learned don't take these guys for their word at first. Make sure they are absolutely telling the truth. He maybe acting like "hey honest mistake" but in all reality he may have meant to take it down and just giving the whole I meant to meet as a cop out 

Since my initial comment, more details came out and I believe (along with most in this thread) the neighbor knew what he was doing. I’m pushing for @gianmarco to hold out till he gets what satisfies him. 

[culdeus 5,819]

5 minutes ago, Beef Ravioli said:

Since my initial comment, more details came out and I believe (along with most in this thread) the neighbor knew what he was doing. I’m pushing for @gianmarco to hold out till he gets what satisfies him. 

So back to sleeping with his wife?

[TheIronSheik 6,591]

Of course do everything through email.  It leaves a record.  Talking face to face is not advisable.  

I'm guessing you either don't hear back from him or he counters with another $275 tree on top of what he already offered.  He didn't expect you to fight back so hard.  In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan:  "He counted on gianmarco to be passive...  He counted wrong."

[gianmarco 19,081]

37 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Of course do everything through email.  It leaves a record.  Talking face to face is not advisable.  

I'm guessing you either don't hear back from him or he counters with another $275 tree on top of what he already offered.  He didn't expect you to fight back so hard.  In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan:  "He counted on gianmarco to be passive...  He counted wrong."

Yes, we are going written record forward with any negotiations.

I still haven't heard anything from him since sending the email Monday evening. Just texted him to confirm receipt.

[culdeus 5,819]

12 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Yes, we are going written record forward with any negotiations.

I still haven't heard anything from him since sending the email Monday evening. Just texted him to confirm receipt.

Have you at least googled up an attorney at this point?   

[NutterButter 5,061]

Does either you or your wife have a legal service provided through work?  I've used the one my ex-wife had a couple of times for traffic tickets with positive results.    

[gianmarco 19,081]

1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Yes, we are going written record forward with any negotiations.

I still haven't heard anything from him since sending the email Monday evening. Just texted him to confirm receipt.

Receipt confirmed, will be getting a response later today.

[TheIronSheik 6,591]

25 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Receipt confirmed, will be getting a response later today.

I feel like I'm more interested in this than the World Series.

[DMXATF23 19]

1 hour ago, culdeus said:

Have you at least googled up an attorney at this point?   

"Tree Attorney" in the search history is pretty great.

[Dan Lambskin 11,740]

1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

Does either you or your wife have a legal service provided through work?  I've used the one my ex-wife had a couple of times for traffic tickets with positive results.    

I just elected this for 2020

its like $20 a month for our group legal plan 

[Godsbrother 5,483]

1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Yes, we are going written record forward with any negotiations.

I still haven't heard anything from him since sending the email Monday evening. Just texted him to confirm receipt.

I like the way you handled things but I think $10,000 is a bit ridiculous.   I am not sure how he is going to react but I could see him being an SOB neighbor until one of you moves.

[ChiefD 13,297]

15 minutes ago, Dan Lambskin said:

I just elected this for 2020

its like $20 a month for our group legal plan 

Does your wife know you are planning on filing for divorce in 2020?

[Dan Lambskin 11,740]

5 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

Does your wife know you are planning on filing for divorce in 2020?

lol I told her that we added it and a co-worker told me earlier in the year he wished he had it when he got his divorce 

i told her child support and alimony would still make it cost prohibitive 

[SayWhat? 2,990]

16 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I like the way you handled things but I think $10,000 is a bit ridiculous.   I am not sure how he is going to react but I could see him being an SOB neighbor until one of you moves.

No, what’s ridiculous is that this a sshat cut down Gian’s tree when he knew he legally couldn’t.  #### this guy.  He deserves to suffer a bit financially after pulling crap like this.  

[gianmarco 19,081]

44 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I like the way you handled things but I think $10,000 is a bit ridiculous.   I am not sure how he is going to react but I could see him being an SOB neighbor until one of you moves.

Let's just look at it this way.

I had and lost an 80 foot tall mature tree with 17" trunk size.

He can put in a 30 foot tall mature tree with 9" trunk size.

Do you feel that I've been made whole with that, especially considering he knowingly took down a tree he shouldn't have?

To do just the above costs $5K.

[yellowdog 205]

@DJackson10 with some solid Hippling. 

Edited October 30 by yellowdog

[Godsbrother 5,483]

15 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Let's just look at it this way.

I had and lost an 80 foot tall mature tree with 17" trunk size.

He can put in a 30 foot tall mature tree with 9" trunk size.

Do you feel that I've been made whole with that, especially considering he knowingly took down a tree he shouldn't have?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

To do just the above costs $5K.

I guess not, I agree with you on principle but making the guy pay $10,000 for a tree seems excessive, especially since part of it was on his property too.  

[gianmarco 19,081]

1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

I guess not, I agree with you on principle but making the guy pay $10,000 for a tree seems excessive, especially since part of it was on his property too.  

I get it.  I wish it wasn't so damn expensive.  I wish the guy had access to the above kind of tree and could just plant it and get it done.

But they are expensive.  And there's a reason landscaping costs so much.  And why people landscape their yards.  And why the law is written to enforce a triple penalty on someone taking down a tree that they don't have a right to take down. 

It sucks but he has no one to blame but himself for creating this situation.  If I felt this was an accident, I would try to be more accommodating.  But it wasn't and I won't be.  To make things worse, his attempt to make it right was awful.  So, the more this drags on and the more information I get about him and his actions, the less sympathetic I get with each passing moment.

[Godsbrother 5,483]

3 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I get it.  I wish it wasn't so damn expensive.  I wish the guy had access to the above kind of tree and could just plant it and get it done.

But they are expensive.  And there's a reason landscaping costs so much.  And why people landscape their yards.  And why the law is written to enforce a triple penalty on someone taking down a tree that they don't have a right to take down. 

It sucks but he has no one to blame but himself for creating this situation.  If I felt this was an accident, I would try to be more accommodating.  But it wasn't and I won't be.  To make things worse, his attempt to make it right was awful.  So, the more this drags on and the more information I get about him and his actions, the less sympathetic I get with each passing moment.

Yep I understand.  The dude made a major mistake cutting that tree down without your approval and most likely did it on purpose so I get it.

[comfortably numb 6,391]

11 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I really don't want to be that guy but figure out who he hired. Talk to them see what they say. If its reasonable to ask for compensation then try getting it. Also where these guys foreign looking like SPainish etc types that usually do these jobs with non reputable companies? if so you can find out how legit the business is and if they are also here legally. If they are not legit and here illegally that's even more trouble he's getting in as well. Again I'm not saying to do this just because. You need to look at all your options here. 

Good schtick 

Show up in a 2 week old thread that is 10 pages long and start making statements and asking questions on posts on the 1st page that have been answered and dealt with already.

7/10

 

[Weebs210 2,255]

5 hours ago, yellowdog said:

@DJackson10 with some solid Hippling. 

Someone really needs to explain to him that he doesn't have to respond to every post in threads.

[Weebs210 2,255]

Also, you should remove all the grass in his lot and offer him a 5x5 patch of grass for repayment.

[comfortably numb 6,391]

Sorry I destroyed your original Rembrandt. 

Here is a copy I picked up at TJ maxx....and it's a 6×10

[gianmarco 19,081]

1 minute ago, comfortably numb said:

Sorry I destroyed your original Rembrandt. 

Here is a copy I picked up at TJ maxx....and it's a 6×10

2 copies.

[gianmarco 19,081]

Brief email update from him:

1) His appraisal was $2500

2) 20% of the tree was his, so the value of what we lost is $2000.

3) The spruce trees we asked for are far more than the value of the tree.

4) He's willing to put $2K value in of trees or cut us a check for $2K.

 

We will respond later tonight. Quick thoughts on the above:

--I knew he was trying to only factor in part of the value of the tree

--He had that value but still started offering a fraction of that amount tells me a lot about him.

--The email was cordial. Our response will be as well. He's at least closer to where we need to be. 

 

[belljr 8,194]

BURN IT DOWN!!!!

[ChiefD 13,297]

11 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Brief email update from him:

1) His appraisal was $2500

2) 20% of the tree was his, so the value of what we lost is $2000.

3) The spruce trees we asked for are far more than the value of the tree.

4) He's willing to put $2K value in of trees or cut us a check for $2K.

 

We will respond later tonight. Quick thoughts on the above:

--I knew he was trying to only factor in part of the value of the tree

--He had that value but still started offering a fraction of that amount tells me a lot about him.

--The email was cordial. Our response will be as well. He's at least closer to where we need to be. 

 

Email This To Him

[comfortably numb 6,391]

19 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Brief email update from him:

1) His appraisal was $2500

2) 20% of the tree was his, so the value of what we lost is $2000.

3) The spruce trees we asked for are far more than the value of the tree.

4) He's willing to put $2K value in of trees or cut us a check for $2K.

 

We will respond later tonight. Quick thoughts on the above:

--I knew he was trying to only factor in part of the value of the tree

--He had that value but still started offering a fraction of that amount tells me a lot about him.

--The email was cordial. Our response will be as well. He's at least closer to where we need to be. 

 

This is a good learning lesson for folks.

Most people would think, 2k for a tree? Take it and run....I PAID $2300 to cut down a tree in my yard and you're thinking 2k for a tree is not enough?? 

People like me would chock this up to a mistake and I'd want to be the nice guy and would probably feel bad accepting any money.

I would have had no knowledge of the law or my rights....meanwhile Joe neighbor (imo) went through this whole process knowing it's easier to deal with a tree that is now gone than try to convince you to take it down. On the off chance Joe neighbor didn't know about tree laws...now he will.

 

[gianmarco 19,081]

8 minutes ago, comfortably numb said:

This is a good learning lesson for folks.

Most people would think, 2k for a tree? Take it and run....I PAID $2300 to cut down a tree in my yard and you're thinking 2k for a tree is not enough?? 

People like me would chock this up to a mistake and I'd want to be the nice guy and would probably feel bad accepting any money.

I would have had no knowledge of the law or my rights....meanwhile Joe neighbor (imo) went through this whole process knowing it's easier to deal with a tree that is now gone than try to convince you to take it down. On the off chance Joe neighbor didn't know about tree laws...now he will.

 

Yep. My initial reaction when he met with me the morning after was "ok, it was a mistake, he's sorry".  Naive reaction.

But after input from here, further thinking on the situation, and then further investigation, it's completely clear that's exactly what happened.  Others here nailed it early on.

He's tried to start really low. He's since come up substantially without much pushing from us.  That tells me he knows what's going on and is still trying to get out of this pretty "cheaply" while getting exactly what he wanted.

Edited October 31 by gianmarco

[yellowdog 205]

55 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Brief email update from him:

1) His appraisal was $2500

2) 20% of the tree was his, so the value of what we lost is $2000.

3) The spruce trees we asked for are far more than the value of the tree.

4) He's willing to put $2K value in of trees or cut us a check for $2K.

 

We will respond later tonight. Quick thoughts on the above:

--I knew he was trying to only factor in part of the value of the tree

--He had that value but still started offering a fraction of that amount tells me a lot about him.

--The email was cordial. Our response will be as well. He's at least closer to where we need to be. 

 

Tell him you want a 50 year old Hickory.

[gianmarco 19,081]

Email summary of our response:

1) Our appraisal is higher (full amount included)

2) You are responsible for the entire tree, not a portion, and ultimately at three times the replacement amount (link to Missouri statute included)

3) One spruce tree does not replace what we lost.

4) We know you were aware of the tree being on our property.

5) We'd like to avoid any litigation.

6) We'd like two 9" Norway Spruce trees.

Thanks

Edited October 31 by gianmarco

[belljr 8,194]

7) eat a dic k

8 ) peace be with you

Edited October 31 by belljr

[culdeus 5,819]

I've followed this thread but are you 100% locked in on your interpretation of what you are owed here?   Have you had a non internet person review this?

[belljr 8,194]

This was the correct response

https://youtu.be/ICZ06gYpu6w

[Punxsutawney Phil 668]

9) Immigration officials will be keeping an eye on your job site for any foreign looking like SPainish etc types 

Edited October 31 by Punxsutawney Phil

[EYLive 4,310]

I like your firm approach. #thatswhatshesaid

No need to negotiate further. This guy clearly doesn't want to take full responsibility for destroying your property. So either he agrees to your terms or you go the legal route. #teamgianmarco #Fthatguy #mamadidntraisenofool #jesussaves

[DJackson10 1,803]

19 hours ago, Beef Ravioli said:

Since my initial comment, more details came out and I believe (along with most in this thread) the neighbor knew what he was doing. I’m pushing for @gianmarco to hold out till he gets what satisfies him. 

Yeah he knew what he was doing from this point on. I think he should hold out. If the guy keeps low balling him and the law doesn't scare him @gianmarco needs to make his time there a living hell. Eventually the guy may think this isn't worth it and leave and go somewhere else or cave in. At this point it's getting to the point no more mr nice neighbor the gloves are coming off. Guys like this VP Construction clown always need to be taken down a notch or two and if you have the chance you do it. Guys like this clown give my Dad and other great contractors and other construction guys like them bad names. 

[DJackson10 1,803]

14 hours ago, comfortably numb said:

Good schtick 

Show up in a 2 week old thread that is 10 pages long and start making statements and asking questions on posts on the 1st page that have been answered and dealt with already.

7/10

 

Trying the Sports guy routine and seeing how it plays out....

[DJackson10 1,803]

7 hours ago, belljr said:

BURN IT DOWN!!!!

That you Seth Rollins? 

[encaitar 1,370]

I think you handled this well.  I think if he comes back again without agreeing, you need to ask for the name of his arborist.  Both the one that took down the tree, plus the one that appraised the tree(if they were different).  It's likely that if he's willing to be a #### about the process before this that he's also willing to lie about an appraisal.   You also need testimony from the tree cutters about why they took down that tree especially if it ends up in court.

 

Also, you're a better person than I am.  If I had an email where he stated he owed me at least $2000 according to his own estimates and his first offer was less than $500 worth of trees I would've gone off on him for being a huge ######.  Of course I don't really care if my neighbors like me so YMMV.

Edited October 31 by encaitar

[DJackson10 1,803]

6 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Email summary of our response:

1) Our appraisal is higher (full amount included)

2) You are responsible for the entire tree, not a portion, and ultimately at three times the replacement amount (link to Missouri statute included)

3) One spruce tree does not replace what we lost.

4) We know you were aware of the tree being on our property.

5) We'd like to avoid any litigation.

6) We'd like two 9" Norway Spruce trees.

Thanks

Good response and too the point and not only that but you finally officially tell him "yeah we new you tried to F us over but guess what you aren't and we aren't letting this go until we get what is rightfully owed to us by law." 

Clowns like this guy make me sick 

[DJackson10 1,803]

5 hours ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

9) Immigration officials will be keeping an eye on your job site for any foreign looking like SPainish etc types 

Honestly I'd do that without even telling him. We had a neighbor in my old neighborhood who's house was next door to I believe the mother or Father parents. Both people lived across the street from us almost directly and were terrible people. The dad owned some type of blue collar work place can't remember construction or Landscaping (Escapes me right now). Either way he had hired guys working for him. They were doing some work at His or his wife's parents house (again can't remember who's the parents were) and My dad called in for permit violations as some of the stuff going on was effecting us across the street and other neighbors. Township came and well they hit the jack pot. Dude had a whole bunch of illegals working for him. The work wasn't being done by Township guidelines so he was arrested and the work halted. My dad only called for a permit violation but got more then what he anticipated out of it.

If my dad was in @gianmarco's spot he'd have already been less cordial to this guy being in the construction buisness himself (Props to you dude for acting as nice as possible to him as well). He absolutely hates guys like this neighbor. Given my dad's overwhelming interesting in googling and researching things (This is the guy who said to my mom they didn't need a laptop yet spends 5Xs the amount of time on it then her now since then), he'd have researched this guy's company hired a PI to investigate the dude's business and everything. Find any violation he could with this guys company and hang it over his head. 

[DJackson10 1,803]

@gianmarco forgive me if you mentioned this but have you found out anymore info on the guys who took the tree down? Ask why it was taken down and who gave them the orders or ok to do so? I think you need to do this if you haven't already. If they know it wasn't their fault they won't lie to you. Some of these companies hire a lot of illegals as well (Because they can under pay them for the work again High $$$$ business) and would rather be frank with you then get hit with fines and stuff for having illegals work for them. Hit up the company and you might be surprised what you get or may not get from them. At this point according to the aborist you talked to the guy refused to cut that tree down and lost the bid so you got a pretty nice idea whoever this guy hired simple didn't care about this and followed orders. They might to keep themselves out of anymore trouble just rat the guy out to you themselves. 

I hope you are also documenting everything in the case you have to use litigation. It's incredible helpful and someone well arms with facts and proof is way more dangerous then some ####### VP like this clown. Make sure you have it documented. Hopefully for your sake this ends soon and he comes to his senses. However I have a feeling he's gonna try and drag this out as long as he can and hope you cave in to his demands 

[bigbottom 8,239]

9 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Email summary of our response:

1) Our appraisal is higher (full amount included)

2) You are responsible for the entire tree, not a portion, and ultimately at three times the replacement amount (link to Missouri statute included)

3) One spruce tree does not replace what we lost.

4) We know you were aware of the tree being on our property.

5) We'd like to avoid any litigation.

6) We'd like two 9" Norway Spruce trees.

Thanks

Great response. You have handled this entire situation perfectly, IMO.  

[Terminalxylem 519]

10 hours ago, yellowdog said:

Tell him you want a 50 year old Hickory.

I'd accept 80%, a 40 year old Hickory.

 

[Terminalxylem 519]

10 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Email summary of our response:

1) Our appraisal is higher (full amount included)

2) You are responsible for the entire tree, not a portion, and ultimately at three times the replacement amount (link to Missouri statute included)

3) One spruce tree does not replace what we lost.

4) We know you were aware of the tree being on our property.

5) We'd like to avoid any litigation.

6) We'd like two 9" Norway Spruce trees.

Thanks

Great response. Still no police report?

I'd consider getting a couple appraisals of the tree's value, as I'm sure he knows a tree guy who will low-ball the estimate.

[brun 708]

10 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Email summary of our response:

1) Our appraisal is higher (full amount included)

2) You are responsible for the entire tree, not a portion, and ultimately at three times the replacement amount (link to Missouri statute included)

3) One spruce tree does not replace what we lost.

4) We know you were aware of the tree being on our property.

5) We'd like to avoid any litigation.

6) We'd like two 9" Norway Spruce trees.

Thanks

Good response, but I think those are really small trees.