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DOJ criminal investigation of Russia probe (1 Viewer)
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Not necessarily, the IG made criminal referrals for Trump on the Ukraine call but we only heard about it because of the whistleblower.
jamny
Footballguy
ok
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well because the dni buried them, correct?
If he had made criminal referrals to Barr...does anyone believe Barr and Trump wouldn’t have had that announced non stop?
Sorry, should have been clearer - it shouldn’t have been publicly known but in this case they certainly would have leaked it.
sho nuff
Footballguy
IMO, they got word the IG report isn't what they wanted and that is what prompted this whole Barr investigation.
shader
Footballguy
Much of this is overblown. But, some good points are made. I made them many times.
People were desperate for Trump to be guilty of big crimes with Russia. So desperate, that they believed basically anything.
In the process, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if some people went way overboard in an attempt to prove his guilt.
The crazy thing is that it was so unnecessary, as this is Donald Trump. Just look at the cluster with Ukraine. He’s been accused of assault of numerous women, his twitter account reads like a junior high school kid that doesn’t pay attention in English class.
The guy is absurd, but the only thing many cared about for years was Russia. If anyone being investigated overplayed their hand and committed crimes in an attempt to find evidence, they deserve what they will get.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Tried telling all the whacko libs what was coming long ago, but they just wouldn't listen. Just an echo chamber for the MSM. Well, now the #### is about to hit the fan and all of the corruption and lies are about to be exposed from Obama all the way down the line through Clapper and the rest of them. Too bad. So sad. Getcha popcorn ready!Don't Noonan said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
So he had that information the whole time? Also...even of they did, how does that affect his case which he pled guilty to? Care to provide a link to where you got this information?
He shouldn't have been near then position he had...Obama warmed Trump. There was a reason
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Mile High
Footballguy
Surprise is on you. I don't give a #### about any of those people. Throw them all in jail as far as I'm concerned.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Nothing is going to happen. Nothing.
(Well, I take that back. Something will happen -- likely a bunch of breathless press releases from Republicans, which will be treated like Gospel by Fox News anchors. But when I say "Nothing is going to happen", what I mean is that no one from the Obama administration is going to be convicted of any crimes. One by one, all of the cases will fall apart when light is shown upon them.)
[scooter]
Footballguy
What's your definition of "very soon"?
Personally I don't think Flynn's case will be tossed at all, ever. Not in a week, not in a month, not in a year, not in a box, not with a fox.
This type of post-conviction "surprise evidence" is the kind of thing that riles up supporters for fundraising purposes, but almost never results in a conviction being overturned.
timschochet
Footballguy
If they’re guilty, of course.
But I’m very skeptical about this. In order to buy into this stuff you also have to buy into some other assumptions as well:
1. For a couple of years the mainstream media told us that this was a non story; that there was nothing there. On the other hand, conservative shows like Hannity and websites like Breitbart pushed this forward. So I would have to conclude that, for once, the conservative media got a major news story right that the mainstream media dismissed. I can’t come up with another significant example when that’s actually happened, so please forgive me if I don’t believe it until it does.
2. For two years I’ve watched Clapper, Brennan, McCabe, Comey et al on TV. They certainly made both mistakes and some bad decisions in their old jobs, but my biggest impression of them, like so many other civil servants, is that they are generally honorable, patriotic fellows. This idea that they were involved in a big conspiracy to take down Trump- it doesn’t fit.
3. The timing is so suspicious, as is the fact that Trump has been pushing so hard for this.
4. Most important of all- though President Trump seems to want to continue to deny it, the evidence is overwhelming that Russia did interfere in the 2016 and did try to help Trump win, and we know, because it is so well documented, that with this goal in mind agents working for Russia made several contacts with the Trump campaign. When James Comey attempted to investigate this, Trump fired him, which caused Mueller’s appointment. Given all of these facts, i fail to understand why the origin of the 2016 investigation should be such a mystery that we’re supposed to believe it was started for nefarious purposes. We had to have an investigation! So why are we investigating the investigators???
timschochet
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I feel like this is a slam dunk here but Fox news was absolutely correct that the Russian investigation was a hoax and mainstream media was convinced of the collusion. Heck, the guy leading the impeachment inquiry lied and said he had proof of collusion.
timschochet
Footballguy
One of the lessons of that awful “transcript” debate yesterday is that it’s unwise and unfair to call people liars simply because you don’t view things from the same perspective.
When Adam Schiff made that remark, he wasn’t hinting that he had seen secret evidence that nobody else did. He was saying that he personally interpreted the evidence that everyone had already as proof of collusion. So far as I know he still does.
Just want to point out that one of the Trump Obsessed Guys reported this post to the mods.Don't Noonan said:
Joe said that type of derangement is why he is going to shut this place down.
ETA: After reading the entire thread it is likely that Fish was the reporter.
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Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I think you are referring to his speech on the floor after the Mueller report had been released where he said something like "you may be okay with xxxxx but I am not"
The problem is he consistently said he had evidence of collusion beyond a reasonable doubt before the Mueller report was released hoping the Mueller report would vindicate him but instead he wound up with egg on his face. He lied because he foolishly thought Trump was going down.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Based on your post history of the last 24 hours you may want to take a break. You are lucky to still have an active account.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
whatev....acting like this dog n pony show barr is doing is going anywhere.....how many times did they go after hillary and her emails? and they really got nothing here...begging italy and others for dirt........say what you want about mueller but people close to trump went to jail....and more are coming....i think its a good percentage chance the house impeaches him....the senate whole nother story
i been along active customer and poster here....never got banned before there was a trump pres and a psf.....if i get banned so be it....i can always take my chat and money elsewhere
Max Power
Footballguy
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7613295/How-Bill-Barr-launched-criminal-inquiry-breakthrough-meeting-Rome.html
Attorney General William Barr decided to launch a criminal investigation into his own department after hearing taped testimony from a professor at the centre of the FBI's Russia investigation.
The 'breakthrough' came on Barr's second trip to Rome this summer, in which he and prosecutor John Durham are understood to have sat down and listened to a tape containing a deposition from academic Josef Mifsud.
Attorney General William Barr decided to launch a criminal investigation into his own department after hearing taped testimony from a professor at the centre of the FBI's Russia investigation.
The 'breakthrough' came on Barr's second trip to Rome this summer, in which he and prosecutor John Durham are understood to have sat down and listened to a tape containing a deposition from academic Josef Mifsud.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I understand you are ok with getting banned but some of us don’t want that for you or the forum - ok?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
thanks aaa......ill just stop posting in here.....back to the pool for me....dont want to shut down your guys fun...
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I don’t want you to not post and definitely don’t want you banned. Whether we are having fun is very debatable
ARE WE HAVING FUN YET??!?
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
“Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."
-Some German guy (maybe)
-Some German guy (maybe)
Trump tried to get Jeff Sessions to open a criminal investigation of Hillary. Sessions said no.
Not every Attorney General can be as principled as Jeff Sessions.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Countdown to Barr announcing that he's opened an investigation into the grand jury which refused to indict McCabe.....
tackle for loss
Footballguy
Jim Jones
David Miscavige
David Koresh
Charles Manson
Marshall Applewhite
Warren Jeffs
Donald Trump
Adolf Hitler
The Pope
Thats a list of people, good or bad, who have gotten people to follow them regardless of facts, evidence, truths and reality.
How many of them had/have followers because of some sort of fear? All of them, including the pope, as those people fear burning in, hmm hmm.
Trump is scared himself, he needs others to have the same fear as him. Thats why he needs this phoney investigating, he believes people lack the knowledge to see what he is up to. This is why his cult following will pay off but that 35% will not be enough.
David Miscavige
David Koresh
Charles Manson
Marshall Applewhite
Warren Jeffs
Donald Trump
Adolf Hitler
The Pope
Thats a list of people, good or bad, who have gotten people to follow them regardless of facts, evidence, truths and reality.
How many of them had/have followers because of some sort of fear? All of them, including the pope, as those people fear burning in, hmm hmm.
Trump is scared himself, he needs others to have the same fear as him. Thats why he needs this phoney investigating, he believes people lack the knowledge to see what he is up to. This is why his cult following will pay off but that 35% will not be enough.
ren hoek
Footballguy
As Vanity Fair’s T.A. Frank noted in a terrific piece a few weeks ago, it may well be an “unfounded conspiracy” to say the Italian government helped “set up” Papadopoulos. There’s no concrete evidence of, say, the CIA instructing the Maltese academic to feed poor Papadopoulos the “dirt” story. That idea that the CIA or the FBI literally concocted such narratives out of whole cloth to frame Trump is (at least so far) unsupported.
However, there’s nothing “unfounded” about trying to find out who the hell Joseph Mifsud is.
The prevailing press theory for years, one Robert Mueller himself seemed to embrace, was that Mifsud was a Russian cutout.
The Special Prosecutor however never proved or even asserted that Mifsud was a Russian agent. Mueller in his report instead used the sleazy term “Russia-related contact” to describe Mifsud, which should have been a big red flag for al. In retrospect, it raises the question of whether or not Mueller knew Mifsud had no real Russia ties when he wrote the report.
Mueller and the FBI really have some explaining to do with regard to its characterizations of Mifsud. Mueller answered, “I can’t get into that,” when asked by Jim Jordan if Mifsud was Western intelligence or Russian intelligence (he didn’t offer a third possibility, neither).
The Daily Beast not long ago reported that Mifsud, before he went into hiding (this whole story is so absurdly cloak-and-dagger!), asked for Italian police protection. He supposedly gave a taped deposition to “explain just why people might want to harm him.” From the Beast story:
A source in the Italian Ministry of Justice, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told The Daily Beast that Barr and Durham were played the tape…
If that tape exists, we should all want to hear it. In fact, given this story’s importance in two long years of suffocating controversies, we should all want to see this guy rolled into Dulles, masked and on a gurney like Hannibal Lecter. Mifsud might end up being an incidental character who got sucked into this thing by accident, but we’re owed an explanation nonetheless.
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-new-york-times-sinks-below-fox
However, there’s nothing “unfounded” about trying to find out who the hell Joseph Mifsud is.
The prevailing press theory for years, one Robert Mueller himself seemed to embrace, was that Mifsud was a Russian cutout.
The Special Prosecutor however never proved or even asserted that Mifsud was a Russian agent. Mueller in his report instead used the sleazy term “Russia-related contact” to describe Mifsud, which should have been a big red flag for al. In retrospect, it raises the question of whether or not Mueller knew Mifsud had no real Russia ties when he wrote the report.
Mueller and the FBI really have some explaining to do with regard to its characterizations of Mifsud. Mueller answered, “I can’t get into that,” when asked by Jim Jordan if Mifsud was Western intelligence or Russian intelligence (he didn’t offer a third possibility, neither).
The Daily Beast not long ago reported that Mifsud, before he went into hiding (this whole story is so absurdly cloak-and-dagger!), asked for Italian police protection. He supposedly gave a taped deposition to “explain just why people might want to harm him.” From the Beast story:
A source in the Italian Ministry of Justice, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told The Daily Beast that Barr and Durham were played the tape…
If that tape exists, we should all want to hear it. In fact, given this story’s importance in two long years of suffocating controversies, we should all want to see this guy rolled into Dulles, masked and on a gurney like Hannibal Lecter. Mifsud might end up being an incidental character who got sucked into this thing by accident, but we’re owed an explanation nonetheless.
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-new-york-times-sinks-below-fox
If there might have been an abuse of the system, it’s absolutely appropriate for the relevant Inspector General to conduct an investigation and report his findings. (From what we know of the FISA warrant applications, I see no reason to think there was any wrongdoing, but I welcome the IG’s report on the matter.)jamny said:
It is absolutely not appropriate whatsoever for the DOJ to do a criminal investigation without probable cause — a criminal predicate. There has been no reported probable cause.
If the DOJ has determined that a criminal investigation on this subject is warranted, it should really appoint a special counsel for the task, not Bill Barr. Barr is way too politicized. The special counsel should report to Barr, but should conduct the investigation independently, exactly like Mueller did.
Finally, if the DOJ is doing its own criminal investigation, it should not be publicly announced. Absent certain exceptions that don’t seem to apply here, the DOJ’s practice is not to publicly announce investigations unless and until it decides to charge someone.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
But what if the investigation turns up evidence of probable cause?!?
jamny
Footballguy
I think the issue is if Barr is too politicized to be involved. If Horowitz has made criminal referrals to him, isn't he obligated to open a criminal investigation? Isn't it his job to pursue it and why should he recuse himself? He had nothing to do with it.
Yes, if Horowitz made a criminal referral, that changes everything. That would be probable cause. Has he done so? If he has, I missed it.
Barr’s “spying” comment makes him suspect on this (as well as his misrepresentation of the Mueller report), but again, if Horowitz has made a criminal referral, that would change my view of the DOJ investigation.
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jamny
Footballguy
He hasn't. Just speculation ( or hope) on my part thinking that is the reason for the criminal investigation to begin with.
boots11234
Footballguy
It’s coming. Maybe after we all receive our 2500 reduction in healthcare?bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
True. Some would. I feel most people are fairly entrenched at this point. The opposite is also true, if the Dems went by the book here, Trump's endless harangue of tweets just looks even more foolish. I don't think either thing happening is going to sway many people at this point.
RBM
Footballguy
Seriously thank God for AG Barr
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-defends-integrity-of-durham-investigation-explains-italy-trip
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-defends-integrity-of-durham-investigation-explains-italy-trip
timschochet
Footballguy
The coverup is the point of Barr, so it makes sense people would be thankful for him
Dickies
Footballguy
DOJ Says It’ll Be ‘Irreparably Harmed’ if Congress Gets Its Hands on Mueller’s Secret Grand Jury Materials
I'm trying to wrap my head around how this can co-exist with investigating the investigation
I'm trying to wrap my head around how this can co-exist with investigating the investigation
Max Power
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
The potential is there for this investigation to have more teeth at the backend than the Mueller one, because the potus and the AG are involved. “Come at the king you best not miss.” Since they missed (in the Russia investigation) the backlash for any procedural violations (or worse) could be harsh. Right or wrong, I truly think that’s a distinct possibility.timschochet said:
Dickies
Footballguy
The administration pushing everyone to ignore subpoenas is going to raise a fuss about procedural violations?
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