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Why do billionaires exist? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wazoo11
- Start date
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
You could make the same argument for multimillionaires. But why prevent people from earning as much as possible?
rockaction
Footballguy
Quint
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
A hug that even transcends one of the two certainties in life and renders the American version of the hug pretty moot...
Quint
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Big Black has an entire album dedicated to special kinds of hugging -- what is it with late '80s industrial/dance/goth that celebrates billionaires hugs and food festivals so much?
Why don't you work hard enough to become a billionaire and then take care of the problems yourself?
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Realistically, how many people can become billionaires, working to their full potential?
There are currently 2153 billionaires on a planet whose population is 7.6 billion. Are they working that much harder than the other 99.999%?
chet
Footballguy
And then there would be another crisis much worse than the one you just "solved".
If three people are hanging out, and two decide to hold the third down and take his money, is that right? If you answered no, then you can't support socialism which Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren both do. If you answered yes, then you need to read Gulag Archipelago.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
A lot of luck is involved. Not only do you have to be born in the right place, you need to inherit enough smarts to succeed and grow up in an environment that fosters your talent.
Not trying to diminish the amount of hard work in the equation, but there are far, far more hard workers than billionaires.
James Daulton
Footballguy
glvsav37
Footballguy
Other things that could solve the Student Loan Crisis:
• Don't go to expensive colleges if you dont have the money
• Begin saving early enough so you don't need to finance college
• Don't go to college if you don't know what you want to do with your career or not ready
• Learn a trade if it suits you better
• Don't major in areas where the ROI is not possible
• Don't go to expensive colleges if you dont have the money
• Begin saving early enough so you don't need to finance college
• Don't go to college if you don't know what you want to do with your career or not ready
• Learn a trade if it suits you better
• Don't major in areas where the ROI is not possible
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Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Obviously the cost is exorbitant. That aside, Id be interested to hear what part of the American health care system is crumbling? Are you getting worse care today than you did 20-30 years ago?
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Thanks. I never thought Id see the day where those with a college degree were considered some sort of victim.
glvsav37
Footballguy
What do you mean by 'solve'? Do you mean just paying off the current debt of every student? What would that solve?
How about we focus on the reasons why the cost of a college education has grown wildly out of control and find ways to bring it down to a more affordable level for most students.
How about we focus on the reasons why the cost of a college education has grown wildly out of control and find ways to bring it down to a more affordable level for most students.
wilked
Footballguy
Instead... what if they gave every single person the world a shiny quarter? Now that'd be something
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Agree that the student loan crisis is wholly avoidable. But healthcare is a whole 'nother can of worms.
American billionaires could probably make a big dent in the latter.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Trust me bro, if working hard guaranteed me to be a billionaire I’d have willingly broken my back several times by now.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Your advice is spot on, but it's important to realize that it's the result of current US policy, which encourages Americans to become tradespeople and have fewer college educated people.
If you are talking about what policy the country should want, that's different.
From a macro perspective, we shouldn't want a country filled with French literature and underwater basket weaving majors, so a policy that gives away unlimited free education isn't the answer. It's very expensive and the country wouldn't really benefit.
But it's very good for the country both short and long term to have a higher level of education. At an individual level it's good for class mobility, but it's also critical for American excellence to continue. We need our smart people to learn how to do smart things. And that's something that the government should consider.
Unfortunately, government intervention has had a terrible impact on the market. Subsidized student loans were intended to help but we're seeing the inevitable result of prices going up to absorb the easily available money, and with Republicans and Democrats interfering with the market in different ways the whole thing has backfired.
The questions that the government should address are
- should federal student aid and loans be modified or eliminated?
- what, if anything, should be done for the generation whose student loans are crippling them right now?
The answers to those questions belong in the politics forum, but it is absolutely a function of government to evaluate its own policies and decide whether to continue, modify or end them.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Do I get reimbursed for the college debt I paid off myself? College Debt Reparations?
MTskibum
Footballguy
This.
I graduated 8 years ago with 60,000 in debt. I lived very poor my first couple years to pay that debt off in 3 years.
culdeus
Footballguy
All that money is just sitting in a bank and providing deflationary pressure while they live off the interest. People say ultra high net worth people provide little, but companies hold trillions of dollars in cash and we say nothing either. If their money truly circulated we'd all suffer inflation in a stagnant wage environment, not ideal.
They know for sure if the #### hits the fan we will come for their money first. Then their heads.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I think, in the US, a lot of hard work and discipline (probably the most overlooked part of the equation) and almost anyone can get themselves to the level of millionaire if that is their goal.
However, to hit the billionaire level, you have to either get extremely lucky, start with a nice inheritance, or really take advantage of others.
All that said, there are a lot of people breaking their backs out there day in and day out and they'll never even sniff millionaire, much less billionaire.
One example is my wife who is a workaholic and in the top 1% of her profession, but she will probably never make even $100K per year. Why? Because she is an elementary school teacher in the midwest. She was a state teacher of the year finalist two years ago and was invited to a statewide panel this year to discuss recruiting and retaining teachers. She has had a student teacher every semester for the last 4 years and she is now running the student teacher program for her building and has her Master's degree.
However, to hit the billionaire level, you have to either get extremely lucky, start with a nice inheritance, or really take advantage of others.
All that said, there are a lot of people breaking their backs out there day in and day out and they'll never even sniff millionaire, much less billionaire.
One example is my wife who is a workaholic and in the top 1% of her profession, but she will probably never make even $100K per year. Why? Because she is an elementary school teacher in the midwest. She was a state teacher of the year finalist two years ago and was invited to a statewide panel this year to discuss recruiting and retaining teachers. She has had a student teacher every semester for the last 4 years and she is now running the student teacher program for her building and has her Master's degree.
matuski
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
We already do, with a progressive tax rate system. But as people make more and more money they use their influence to change the rules to benefit them, and now the people at the top pay a lower tax rate than people at the bottom.
With more influence in the process, they are now choosing winners and losers in politics. Soros and the Koch brothers have more influence than any of us ever will, and Citizens United and the Stormy Daniels saga show how little ability we have to enforce rules to keep money out of politics. Hillary should never have been the candidate over Bernie, who had more popular support and raised much more money from individual contributions.
We're passing the tipping point right now. Whether you agree with their policies or not, there's speculation that Bernie and Warren are getting worse coverage across all media including liberally biased MSNBC because they are pushing too hard against the wealthy.
If this continues unchecked, the people will no longer control the American government (if we even do now).
And as we move towards automation and artificial intelligence taking bigger and bigger bites out of jobs people currently hold, the disparity between haves and have nots could become horrifying.
This isn't an argument for one policy over another and I'm not suggesting any candidate or party - but it's important to realize that there absolutely is a reason to "prevent people from earning as much as possible".
matuski
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
And it's also being discussed, ad nauseam, in the forum you -- yes, you personally - agitated with wit and action greatly to help come into view and then to be thusly and commensurately eliminated.
Yet you see fit to post this? The irony is thick, hopefully the tide higher.
Yet you see fit to post this? The irony is thick, hopefully the tide higher.
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Yup, this is the way I've always felt about it. Very unfair for those that worked hard and sacrificed to pay off their student loans.
I'm much more in favor of government working on lowering the cost of higher education going forward (but not making it completely free).
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Even if you ignore the cost (which you shouldn’t), our health care metrics ain’t great compared to other top systems worldwide. And if primary care is the foundation of a healthy system, we’re on extremely shaky ground moving forward.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I had to read this 3 times to confirm that all of these words are English, and they appear to follow the rules of English grammar. If i give it another hour or two i might be able to figure out what they mean.
Encumbrance
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
i was going to quibble with a lot of the comments about "hard work", which is not to say that billionaires do not "deserve" what they got or that there is not a level of work and school, but I do think that the discipline point is a good addition to this overall discussion (which would be way more interesting without this whole student aspect). I think that the concept of "work" can be very loaded.
rockaction
Footballguy
I meant forum instead of thread. I think somebody who went to so such lengths might be taken aback at crossing the forums, but no, we get a ton of declaratives right in the spirit of the rankest member of the liberal guild.
Bravo!
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Yes. The current system has interfered with the market and created an environment that is favorable for people working in the trades, and more difficult for people who use loans to get college degrees. I don't think that's a controversial statement.
Encumbrance
Footballguy
How much? Does this differentiate between races and groups, sexes and the like?
eta* I made the leap from from colloquial "smarts" to "IQ." To the extent this is what he means is probably the extent of the debate, for sure. Just getting that out there for posterity.
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Encumbrance
Footballguy
I know of Charles Murray. What I just want to know is aside, aside from demography, are we going to believe that the statement that a degree of "IQ is heritable" is now not up for discussion, but a standard baseline and given.
That's a pretty serious leap from the popular scourge that ravaged that book, no?
And what degree and how do we determine that? I'm not castigating. I'm curious about your take.
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
do you mean that the excess government-backed lending has created a glut of college-educated people fighting for the same jobs making it more difficult for them, which has consequently reduced competition for jobs within the trades thereby making it more favorable?
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
number 1: i don't care about the scourge
number 2: i think that a lot of the scourge was the result of how some people tried to use the results of that book for political and social ends
number 3: i don't think that anyone doubts that most traits are some combination of genetics and environment.
matttyl
Footballguy
A dent, maybe. Last year the US spent $3.65T on healthcare. That's Trillion with a T. The US has about 600 billionaires. If each one gives a billion towards healthcare, that's $600B. That covers about 16% of one year. What do we do about the other 84% for this year? Then what do we do for every single other year?
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Like just about every trait, there is a genetic component to intelligence. But a combination of genes and environment determine how well one is able to maximize their potential.
This isn’t about the heritability of intelligence, but interesting in the context of this discussion:
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Oh. Yes, i agree that the thread belongs in the politics forum if a discussion of politics is going to happen and i said so above.
I think it's a fact that money is in politics. It's a fact that the DNC worked to make Hillary the nominee over Bernie. It's a fact that Bernie had more individual contributions. It is a matter of opinion whether Bernie would have won, or would have been a better candidate, etc.. Those are topics for the politics forum.
This thread is asking why billionaires exist, and a specific post asked why (the government) should prevent people from making as much money as possible. The fact that money influences politics is absolutely an answer, and not a politically motivated one. I specifically mentioned Hillary and Stormy, and Soros and the Koch brothers, because "both sides" are guilty.
It's valid to have the conversation here. If you want to get into a debate about what to do about it, or about which policies or candidates you support, that belongs in the politics forum. I have said exactly that since the beginning.
Encumbrance
Footballguy
Fair enough about points 1 and 2. I don't care enough about either, either. You actually brought him up. I said nothing about him.
This is an area that interests me. I've read enough yet am a dilettante. What level would you put it at, or is further research necessary for you (which is fine and respect-worthy, I'm more curious if there's a number or a set of circumstances or what you base this off of)?
And you never answered the first question, merely brushed it aside with a Charles Murray alias quip, which demonstrates your own intellectual pursuits and knowledge, but never gets to the nub or the rub.
Which is also fine, as stating anything but one answer is political and social suicide. And likely not true, IMHO.
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