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Why do billionaires exist? (1 Viewer)

A dent, maybe.  Last year the US spent $3.65T on healthcare.  That's Trillion with a T.  The US has about 600 billionaires.  If each one gives a billion towards healthcare, that's $600B.  That covers about 16% of one year.  What do we do about the other 84% for this year?  Then what do we do for every single other year?
I wasn’t intending for them just to throw money at the problem. But yeah, investing 1/6 in yearly US healthcare expenditures would probably make a big difference. Look at what the Gates Foundation does already, and programs like PEPFAR have done in the developing world.

 
Like just about every trait, their is a genetic component to intelligence. But a combination of genes and environment determine how well one is able to maximize their potential.

This isn’t about the heritability of intelligence, but interesting in the context of this discussion:
Are race and gender social constructs then? I'm confused over what a trait is vs. characteristic. Perhaps a fundamental within the modern debate would help. What is the hierarchy of things acquired at birth, and what steps do they go in? 

 
Are race and gender social constructs then? I'm confused over what a trait is vs. characteristic. Perhaps a fundamental within the modern debate would help. What is the hierarchy of things acquired at birth, and what steps do they go in? 
Race is a social construct; gender, too. I’m not interested in those discussions, as they aren’t germane to this topic.
 

Nobody knows an exact hierarchy or heritable traits, but it’s not a huge leap to acknowledge a genetic component to intelligence, at least as defined by scholastic aptitude. Wikipedia is a decent place to start.

 
Race is a social construct; gender, too. I’m not interested in those discussions, as they aren’t germane to this topic.
Nobody knows an exact hierarchy or heritable traits, but it’s not a huge leap to acknowledge a genetic component to intelligence, at least as defined by scholastic aptitude. Wikipedia is a decent place to start.
Race and gender are social constructs. Why can't IQ be one?  

 
do you mean that the excess government-backed lending has created a glut of college-educated people fighting for the same jobs making it more difficult for them, which has consequently reduced competition for jobs within the trades thereby making it more favorable?
No, but that's probably true too. I mean that the excess of government- backed lending has led to increasing prices and the availability of loans has left college educated people deep in debt, while people learning the trades don't have to go into the same kind of debt. 

You're probably right too though. Government intervention does not seem to be producing the expected outcome.

I think a lot of people are aware of this and talk about the trades as a good option for young people today.  But that's largely because of the impact of current policy. 

 
Even if you ignore the cost (which you shouldn’t), our health care metrics ain’t great compared to other top systems worldwide. And if primary care is the foundation of a healthy system, we’re on extremely shaky ground moving forward.
So its fair to say that you believe healthcare in this country is worse now than its bee in the past 2-3 decades? Im trying to determine what constitutes "crumbling health care".

 
Has anyone actually seen a billionaire in person?  Who's to say they actually DO exist?  I've seen videos of ghosts, Bigfoot, UFO's and billionaires.  But I'll wait to make my final decision until I see a few of these things in person. :skeptic: 

 
Has anyone actually seen a billionaire in person?  Who's to say they actually DO exist?  I've seen videos of ghosts, Bigfoot, UFO's and billionaires.  But I'll wait to make my final decision until I see a few of these things in person. :skeptic: 
One.  High school friend of parents, started telecom/cell business and sold it.  Seattle area.

His kids are a disaster.  I'd predict sleeves to sleeveless, but I'm not sure even those two could blow a $billion+ when they get it.

Is it possible to blow a $billion?

 
Billionaires exist in America because, deep down, the country doesn't want things to be fair. Each citizen (white, anyway) appears to be able to see a yellow brick road to mad prosperity leading from their door and, when that happens for them, they don't want nothin' getting between them and their mansion, cars, party boat, gold bathroom fixtures and #### y'alls. I am amazed how little the internet moguls - whose enterprises were symbolized by workplaces w pingpong tables & espresso machines - caught flack for either using near-slave foreign labor or warehouse workers who can't go to the bathroom when they need to and are then lauded for their charitable endeavors once they've stomped their competition into dust. It's the American Way, wazoo.

I was just watching an old youtube clip of somebody famous, one of the Monty Pythons maybe?, talking about dealing with an 87% tax rate which almost folded him back to scufflin' poor while he was still on the way to reaping the rewards of his efforts. Now, rich folk are almost embarrassed when proven not to be clever enough to pay nothing. I think there's a place in between those two which ultimately profits the individual and the community, but the "science" of economics is too busy being the buttboy of finance to figure what those #s might be. There was a national discussion of this during the Reagan years - what percentage of tax burden stifles incentive but, like with everything else, well-heeled crooks in business & govt ran it straight to zero to see when they'd get caught as the way to find the answer.

 
One.  High school friend of parents, started telecom/cell business and sold it.  Seattle area.

His kids are a disaster.  I'd predict sleeves to sleeveless, but I'm not sure even those two could blow a $billion+ when they get it.

Is it possible to blow a $billion?
If you offered me enough money, I'd blow anything. :shrug:

 
Billionaires exist in America because, deep down, the country doesn't want things to be fair. Each citizen (white, anyway) appears to be able to see a yellow brick road to mad prosperity leading from their door and, when that happens for them, they don't want nothin' getting between them and their mansion, cars, party boat, gold bathroom fixtures and #### y'alls. I am amazed how little the internet moguls - whose enterprises were symbolized by workplaces w pingpong tables & espresso machines - caught flack for either using near-slave foreign labor or warehouse workers who can't go to the bathroom when they need to and are then lauded for their charitable endeavors once they've stomped their competition into dust. It's the American Way, wazoo.

I was just watching an old youtube clip of somebody famous, one of the Monty Pythons maybe?, talking about dealing with an 87% tax rate which almost folded him back to scufflin' poor while he was still on the way to reaping the rewards of his efforts. Now, rich folk are almost embarrassed when proven not to be clever enough to pay nothing. I think there's a place in between those two which ultimately profits the individual and the community, but the "science" of economics is too busy being the buttboy of finance to figure what those #s might be. There was a national discussion of this during the Reagan years - what percentage of tax burden stifles incentive but, like with everything else, well-heeled crooks in business & govt ran it straight to zero to see when they'd get caught as the way to find the answer.
You watch too many movies, kid.

 
Fair enough about points 1 and 2. I don't care enough about either, either. You actually brought him up. I said nothing about him. 

This is an area that interests me. I've read enough yet am a dilettante. What level would you put it at, or is further research necessary for you (which is fine and respect-worthy, I'm more curious if there's a number or a set of circumstances or what you base this off of)?

And you never answered the first question, merely brushed it aside with a Charles Murray alias quip, which demonstrates your own intellectual pursuits and knowledge, but never gets to the nub or the rub.  

Which is also fine, as stating anything but one answer is political and social suicide. And likely not true, IMHO. 
i didn't answer it because you are all over the place here with things that are far afield from the original (albeit not super on-point) question.  I would suggest it being in a separate topic. 

Certainly the genetics of IQ can lead to differentiation between sexes and race, though none of that need have any impact on policy, nor should it necessitate any kind of deterministic outcomes.  The idea of what % is heritable is always going to be based on averages.  They are true when speaking probabilistically and also historically.  But there will always be outliers who all deserve dignity and opportunity, so while interesting to discuss the descriptive statistics, shouldn't have any impact on how we treat individuals in society.  The fact that there is no binary outcome means that we should value what we want the future to be, not what the past has been.

 
I used to be a staunch conservative who believed high taxes are never good.

Today I believe for most of the people, high taxes are never good.... but there is a point where the benefit to society of people being able to keep as much as they make ends and it becomes a burden on society when a person keeps too much. If I had to draw a line, it's around the top 0.01%. The benefit that society has gained from their efforts no longer exceeds what they are taking from the economy. They are an economic burden. 

 
I used to be a staunch conservative who believed high taxes are never good.

Today I believe for most of the people, high taxes are never good.... but there is a point where the benefit to society of people being able to keep as much as they make ends and it becomes a burden on society when a person keeps too much. If I had to draw a line, it's around the top 0.01%. The benefit that society has gained from their efforts no longer exceeds what they are taking from the economy. They are an economic burden. 
How so?

 
i didn't answer it because you are all over the place here with things that are far afield from the original (albeit not super on-point) question.  I would suggest it being in a separate topic. 

Certainly the genetics of IQ can lead to differentiation between sexes and race, though none of that need have any impact on policy, nor should it necessitate any kind of deterministic outcomes.  The idea of what % is heritable is always going to be based on averages.  They are true when speaking probabilistically and also historically.  But there will always be outliers who all deserve dignity and opportunity, so while interesting to discuss the descriptive statistics, shouldn't have any impact on how we treat individuals in society.  The fact that there is no binary outcome means that we should value what we want the future to be, not what the past has been.
Thanks for the response. I'm not sure how far afield either the original question or I am being. His has no neat fits, that's for sure. It's rather broad and open-ended and plaintive in a way. It's silly. But I respectfully disagree with the characterization of my own as far afield. As soon as someone starts talking about "smarts," and "heritability," that's when I come in. The person I responded to had immediately stated that "smarts" were heritable. I wondered by how much, to what degree, and if heritable, could that be ascribed to demographic groups. 

As to your point, I try and stay away from the policy and procedural ramifications of this and just stick to the original question of IQ and heritably. I'll withdraw the question about ethic or demographic groups and simply limit the discussion to one demographic group if need be so, as wondering aloud about groups or demography makes the threat of abuse or racism that much close to the surface, something I am looking to avoid.  

 
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman
 

 
Why stop at billionaires?  A third of the world lives on less than $2 a day.  I think we should tax every American 75% to help the world's less fortunate.  Why should we get to have so much when so many have so little?

Or are we only cool with giving away other people's money?

 
Because they increase the prices of things they don't need. 

For example, real estate costs more for people who need homes because the uber rich are buying homes they don't need. The price of homes are higher because needless buying increases the number of buyers in the market for homes. 

 
Because they increase the prices of things they don't need. 

For example, real estate costs more for people who need homes because the uber rich are buying homes they don't need. The price of homes are higher because needless buying increases the number of buyers in the market for homes. 
The rent is too damn high because rich people buy too much? 

 
All that money made could solve the student loan crisis or crumbling health care system  in America.
Because student loan debt is basically higher education old people sticking it to the young people so they can get rich and you can stay poor. 

Health care I thought we fixed that with Obamacare? 

 
Because they increase the prices of things they don't need. 

For example, real estate costs more for people who need homes because the uber rich are buying homes they don't need. The price of homes are higher because needless buying increases the number of buyers in the market for homes. 
Maybe as a very small pct of overall buying. But in this country we need to build 1.5 million new homes per year to keep up with population growth and we haven't built 1.5 million since 2007-2008 when the bubble burst. What we have currently is an undersupply of homes

 
Because they increase the prices of things they don't need. 

For example, real estate costs more for people who need homes because the uber rich are buying homes they don't need. The price of homes are higher because needless buying increases the number of buyers in the market for homes. 
Billionaires buying up all the houses probably explains something like 0.001% of housing prices.

 
Race and gender are social constructs. Why can't IQ be one?  
OK, let’s say it is. Doesn’t change my original point about the role luck plays in becoming a billionaire.

Race and gender very much are germane to this topic of wealth and wealth accrual. 

You bet your ### they are.  
What do you think the single biggest factor contributing to the paucity of billionaires? Lack of hard workers? Wrong race or gender?

 
So its fair to say that you believe healthcare in this country is worse now than its bee in the past 2-3 decades? Im trying to determine what constitutes "crumbling health care".
It’s been crappy for a while now. Some parts are worse (scarcity of primary care docs, life expectancy), some better (cancer care). Overall, we ain’t getting a lot of bang for the buck.

 
It’s been crappy for a while now. Some parts are worse (scarcity of primary care docs, life expectancy), some better (cancer care). Overall, we ain’t getting a lot of bang for the buck.
Have you had trouble finding a primary care doctor?

Life expectancy in the US is not worse now than it was in the 80s and 90s. 

Not sure where the "crumbling health care" argument comes from. Its simply not true. 

 
Have you had trouble finding a primary care doctor?

Life expectancy in the US is not worse now than it was in the 80s and 90s. 

Not sure where the "crumbling health care" argument comes from. Its simply not true. 
I haven’t, but it certainly is a big problem, created in part by the reimbursement system.

The expectation isn’t just keeping up with standards from the eighties,

Do you work in healthcare? 

 
I haven’t, but it certainly is a big problem, created in part by the reimbursement system.

The expectation isn’t just keeping up with standards from the eighties,

Do you work in healthcare? 
Technically, yes I guess I do work in heath care (although not directly). Its irrelevant as Im asking what Im not seeing. So far, nothing you have mentioned comes close to "crumbling health care". If something is crumbling, that means it is getting worse. Im not seeing that. I was hoping you (or others) could show me my blind spot. 

 
I have bad news for all the hard-working people out there that aspire to be billionaires.

You make billions by owning capital not by labor.

 
i believe in the butterfly effect so if we did not have billionares we would have something else like a ton of those fat guys from moonshiners and look as much as i like those guys the world can only take so many rotund guys making illegal hooch in our public forestlands it would just be too much so look all i am sayin is think about it take that to the bank brohans 

 
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It stuns me that people still think billionaires are billionaires on merit in an age where big-time professional sports owners are public figures.

You all telling me you think Dan Snyder "deserves" to be worth 2.6 billion?  James Dolan deserves to be worth $1.5 billion? Jimmy Haslam deserves to be worth $2.8 billion?  Dean Spanos?  The Ricketts family?  Peter Angelos? If we lived in anything remotely resembling a meritocracy those guys- and probably at least half of their colleagues- would be homeless and destitute.

 
All that money made could solve the student loan crisis or crumbling health care system  in America.
With Student Loan debt topping 1.5 trillion it would take 1500 billionaires to give a full billion apiece, impoverishing them, to solve the crisis, presuming, of course that paying off the public debt solves the crisis, private debt would still be out there. For health car the figures are worse. 

Philosophically I have a problem being righteous about taking from others simply because they have it and you want it.  In that regard Chet has a point.

 
If you put $1B in an investment account that grows at 5%, you'd have to spend over $50MM just to begin whittling away at that billion. This is how/why the rich get richer.
Dude that's under a million a week to spend.  Do you really expect people to budget themselves to that extent?

 
Has anyone actually seen a billionaire in person?  Who's to say they actually DO exist?  I've seen videos of ghosts, Bigfoot, UFO's and billionaires.  But I'll wait to make my final decision until I see a few of these things in person. :skeptic: 
I met Larry Ellison years ago, back when he and Oracle were much more relevant. He’s the only billionaire that I’ve met and talked to briefly.

 
I met Larry Ellison years ago, back when he and Oracle were much more relevant. He’s the only billionaire that I’ve met and talked to briefly.
And I knew a guy who said he was abducted by aliens.  No offense to you, but I need first hand experience to sway my beliefs.  

 
I saw  the billionaire brothers that own a regional box store chain.  If I didn't know they were billionaires I might have mistook them for a couple of used car salesmen.

 

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