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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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I saw three people wearing masks at the grocery store yesterday and I had one of those Steve Harvey meme moments. Even before this coronavirus stuff you'd see someone wearing a mask out in public every so often but never multiple people in the same place. Unless we got a government directive to wear masks when out in public would anyone here actually wear one? Anyone wearing them already? Isn't this like a don't touch your face, make sure you wash your hands type thing? Fatality numbers that much different than the flu?

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:
8 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

More accurate, I believe it’s the generic response that also covers natural disasters.

I saw that page, too. Found it on my own ... no one linked to it.

You're looking for this:  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/rr/rr6601a1.htm

 

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4 minutes ago, belljr said:

Reading this now and I see this:

Quote

 

For this guidance high-risk exposures refer to HCP who performed or were present in the room for procedures that generate aerosols or during which respiratory secretions are likely to be poorly controlled (e.g., cardiopulmonary resuscitation, intubation, extubation, bronchoscopy, nebulizer therapy, sputum induction) on patients with COVID-19 when the healthcare providers’ eyes, nose, or mouth were not protected.

Medium-risk exposures generally include HCP who had prolonged close contact with patients with COVID-19 where HCP mucous membranes or hands were exposed to material potentially infectious with COVID-19.  These exposures could place the exposed HCP at risk of developing disease that is less than that described under high-risk.

Proper adherence to currently recommended infection control practices, including all recommended PPE, should protect HCP having prolonged close contact with patients infected with COVID-19. However, HCP in this category are classified as having low-risk to account for any inconsistencies in use or adherence that could result in unrecognized exposures.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Even the receptionist at the doctor's office I go to wears a mask.

That's unique.

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It could be a different link I can't really tell right now 

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4 minutes ago, -fish- said:

This is helpful:

Quote

 

NPIs routinely recommended for prevention of respiratory virus transmission, such as seasonal influenza, include personal protective measures for everyday use (i.e., voluntary home isolation of ill persons, respiratory etiquette, and hand hygiene) and environmental surface cleaning measures (i.e., routine cleaning of frequently touched surfaces and objects). During an influenza pandemic, these NPIs are recommended regardless of the pandemic severity level. Additional personal and community NPIs also might be recommended. Personal protective measures reserved for pandemics include voluntary home quarantine of exposed household members and use of face masks in community settings when ill. Community NPIs might include temporary closures or dismissals of child care facilities and schools with students in grades kindergarten through 12 (K–12), as well as other social distancing measures that increase the physical space between people (e.g., workplace measures such as replacing in-person meetings with teleconferences or modifying, postponing, or cancelling mass gatherings) ( Figure 5) (Table 1). Local decisions about NPI selection and timing involve consideration of overall pandemic severity and local conditions (1) and require flexibility and possible modifications as the pandemic progresses and new information becomes available.

Updated recommendations on the use of NPIs to help slow the spread and decrease the impact of an influenza pandemic are provided, as is information on the rationale for using each NPI as part of a comprehensive public health strategy for pandemic response and the appropriate settings and use for each NPI according to the severity of the pandemic ( Table 9).¶ The recommendations that follow are considered an update to the existing recommendations in the 2007 guidance because the same set of NPIs has been maintained and recommended for use early in a pandemic. However, the difference between the guidance issued in 2007 and in 2017 is the clear delineation of NPIs into two categories: 1) NPIs recommended at all times and 2) NPIs recommended for use only during pandemics (based on the level of pandemic severity and local conditions). The 2017 update also provides additional evidence to support the NPI recommendations.

 

 

Edited by JerseyToughGuys

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People in my office are starting to get uppity that we haven't been told or given the option to work remotely.  I think it's a little premature, but we do work in an airport so I'm not sure how unreasonable they're really being.  If this thing's coming here, it's going to be via planes.  

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2 hours ago, matuski said:

Fear mongering aside, this is :lmao:

This one (jvdesign12324 or whatever, not you) paints with a broad brush.

1 hour ago, [icon] said:

I think as soon as cases start surfacing here (in the next week or two?), yes I think the average person will be out shopping for food and masks. 

By the time they need it, full on panic buying will occur in the areas that are effected. 98% of the population is not proactive such as yourself, your cohort and ham. The rest of us go to the store, sometimes daily for the their sustenance and will only become aware of an issue when their go to frozen meal shelf is empty and there is no ice cream left.

Good on you and the crew for thinking ahead. I told the wife last night we should look to stock up on some things for the future based on the information from this thread because I think it will get much worse before it gets better. But more so to avoid being in public and mitigating the panic buying I know will occur than thinking we are heading for armageddon (not saying you are). I live in SC and they routinely clear the shelves for a dusting of snow, the hint of a hurricane and any number of other stupid reasons. I just don't want to go without Twizzlers for months on end.

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1 minute ago, -fish- said:

That's not it either, at least not that I can make out.

...

Until I can read or see otherwise ... I have to conclude that the CDC has not yet made a public call for citizens to store away two weeks of food and water :shrug: 

Oblique references to "other, previous guidance" isn't good enough to inform the public. They're going to have to be a lot more direct.

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Department of Homeland Security also has a page for preparing for a pandemic.

https://www.ready.gov/pandemic.  Most of it is common sense.   First recommendation is two weeks food and water.

Quote

Before a Pandemic

Store a two week supply of water and food.

Periodically check your regular prescription drugs to ensure a continuous supply in your home.

Have any nonprescription drugs and other health supplies on hand, including pain relievers, stomach remedies, cough and cold medicines, fluids with electrolytes, and vitamins.

Get copies and maintain electronic versions of health records from doctors, hospitals, pharmacies and other sources and store them, for personal reference. Get help accessing electronic health records.

Talk with family members and loved ones about how they would be cared for if they got sick, or what will be needed to care for them in your home.

During a Pandemic

Limit the Spread of Germs and Prevent Infection

Avoid close contact with people who are sick.

When you are sick, keep your distance from others to protect them from getting sick too.

Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing. It may prevent those around you from getting sick.

Washing your hands often will help protect you from germs.

Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth.

Practice other good health habits. Get plenty of sleep, be physically active, manage your stress, drink plenty of fluids, and eat nutritious food.

 

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6 minutes ago, -fish- said:

This is also worth highlighting:

Quote

 

Use of Face Masks in Community Settings

Face masks (disposable surgical, medical, or dental procedure masks) are widely used by health care workers to prevent respiratory infections both in health care workers and patients. They also might be worn by ill persons during severe, very severe, or extreme pandemics to prevent spread of influenza to household members and others in the community. However, little evidence supports the use of face masks by well persons in community settings, although some trials conducted during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic found that early combined use of face masks and other NPIs (such as hand hygiene) might be effective (supplementary Chapter 3 https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/44313).

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Doug B said:

"Two weeks of food & water" is not mentioned. Nor is "revert to pandemic protocols" or anything like that.

I was Lincoln specifically to healthcare providers covering their face there's a whole bunch of stuff out there on that website that I haven't dove into

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1 minute ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

This is helpful ...

Fish and I may have been talking past each other. I didn't care about the CDC's mask recommendations. I wanted a link to their public message that Americans need to stockpile two weeks of food & water.

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22 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

What’s the source of this? We all know health care professionals don’t slap on masks when you go in for the flu. It just doesn’t happen.

Cmon man.. I know you're not this bad at the Internet. :lol: 

It's from the CDC's Site on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) direct from the section on Guidelines for Infection Control when interacting with suspected COVID-19 patients. 

Feel free to do your own homework. 

 

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

That's not it either, at least not that I can make out.

...

Until I can read or see otherwise ... I have to conclude that the CDC has not yet made a public call for citizens to store away two weeks of food and water :shrug: 

Oblique references to "other, previous guidance" isn't good enough to inform the public. They're going to have to be a lot more direct.

2 weeks is the SOP. 

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

That's not it either, at least not that I can make out.

...

Until I can read or see otherwise ... I have to conclude that the CDC has not yet made a public call for citizens to store away two weeks of food and water :shrug: 

Oblique references to "other, previous guidance" isn't good enough to inform the public. They're going to have to be a lot more direct.

They recommend home quarantine for the incubation period.  If the incubation period is 14 days, you're going to need food and water, right?

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Just now, belljr said:
9 minutes ago, Doug B said:

"Two weeks of food & water" is not mentioned. Nor is "revert to pandemic protocols" or anything like that.

I was Lincoln specifically to healthcare providers covering their face there's a whole bunch of stuff out there on that website that I haven't dove into

Yeah, we had crossed wires. No worries.

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2 minutes ago, [icon] said:

Cmon man.. I know you're not this bad at the Internet. :lol: 

It's from the CDC's Site on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) direct from the section on Guidelines for Infection Control when interacting with suspected COVID-19 patients. 

Feel free to do your own homework. 

 

Thanks!

Since I don't want to get shot by my overzealous neighbor in the brick house on the hill, I will heed this thoughtful advice. 

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

Got this from our kids school 

——————

Dear Parents,

On behalf of the Superintendent, please be advised that we are aware of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) guidance to schools to prepare contingency plans for the coronavirus-borne disease COVID-19.

Our School District works closely with the Georgia Department of Public Health and local public safety officials whenever there is a public health or safety concern affecting any of our schools.  Our custodial provider is equally dedicated to keeping our schools clean and our children safe with numerous industry best practices in place.

What can you do as a parent?  You can reinforce with your children the importance of every-day good health habits to avoid illnesses including: frequently washing your hands; using a tissue when you sneeze or cough and then throwing it away; keeping your fingers out of your eyes, nose and mouth; not sharing water bottles or similar containers; and staying home when sick.  When children have a fever, they need to stay home from school and be fever free, without the aid of fever-reducing medication, for at least 24 hours before returning to school.

In the event we were to need to close schools, for any reason, our Canvas online learning management system, which our students and teachers have tested for the past year, allows for teaching and learning to continue in these situations.  As we have previously announced, we will be using Canvas on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 for a Digital Learning Day; our schools will be closed that day for safety concerns, as many will be used for Presidential Primary election polling sites.  Canvas is a type of “teleschool” option that CDC officials suggested school systems have in place as a contingency plan.

Cobb County?

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Just now, -fish- said:

They recommend home quarantine for the incubation period.

I can't even find that much.

When you say "they recommend home quaratine" ... is that a recommendation for right now, or down the road at some indeterminate point?

Frankly ... I'm not finding that the CDC is addressing much of anything to the general public. I think they're talking to reporters who speak their language, I guess, but in doing so speaking right over the general public's heads. At least IMHO. The messaging is a problem. If they want Americans to react a certain way, they aren't making that happen with the current messaging.

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For the guys on the leading edge of this stuff, do we trust the CDC or do we not trust them? 

When they say "little evidence supports the use of face masks by well persons in community settings," do we believe them are they conspiring to keep all the masks for themselves? 

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Another health official says 2 weeks food and water

Quote

Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association, said: “Everybody should take a deep breath. It’s about preparedness.” He advised that businesses should consider giving employees paid sick leave to ensure they do not come to work when ill, and put in place contingency plans so everyone can work from home. Individuals should think about stockpiling food for at least three or four days — or ideally two weeks, in case there are lockdowns, he added.

 

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3 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

2 weeks is the SOP. 

Understood. Fish had written on the last page something to the effect of "The CDC said to fall back on their pandemic recommendations from 2005". I cannot find where the CDC said that. 

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

I can't even find that much.

When you say "they recommend home quaratine" ... is that a recommendation for right now, or down the road at some indeterminate point?

Frankly ... I'm not finding that the CDC is addressing much of anything to the general public. I think they're talking to reporters who speak their language, I guess, but in doing so speaking right over the general public's heads. At least IMHO. The messaging is a problem. If they want Americans to react a certain way, they aren't making that happen with the current messaging.

They say incubation period 3 days (which is normal). So it's fair to conclude they mean incubation period period. 

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5 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

I haven't read any of this thread but saw the report asking the title be changed.

Is this a joke thread or are people trying to offer serious advice here? 

It seems as since people are dying from this and some have seemingly legit concerns, we could do without jokes in this one. 

For the most part, serious. But shockingly, some  are over-reacting a tad and of course others are really angry at the over-reactions. Sometimes some gallows humor slips in to lighten the tone, but with no disrespect intended. At least from what I read, which is only about half of it at most.

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28 minutes ago, -fish- said:

This is CDC's advice in response to any epidemic/pandemic. They have issued a statement that their instructions for a pandemic, which have been in place since 2005 and were updated a couple years ago, should be applied to this virus.

The underlined statement, specifically, is what I am trying to find -- and coming up empty.

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2 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

They say incubation period 3 days (which is normal). So it's fair to conclude they mean incubation period period. 

???

Addressing someone else?

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5 minutes ago, Doug B said:

I can't even find that much.

When you say "they recommend home quaratine" ... is that a recommendation for right now, or down the road at some indeterminate point?

Frankly ... I'm not finding that the CDC is addressing much of anything to the general public. I think they're talking to reporters who speak their language, I guess, but in doing so speaking right over the general public's heads. At least IMHO. The messaging is a problem. If they want Americans to react a certain way, they aren't making that happen with the current messaging.

If you know you have been exposed, they recommend voluntary home quarantine.

Quote

Voluntary Home Quarantine

Voluntary home quarantine of non-ill household members of persons with influenza (also called self-quarantine or household quarantine) helps prevent disease spread from households to schools, workplaces, and other households because those household members have been exposed to the influenza virus. Exposed household members of symptomatic persons (with confirmed or probable pandemic influenza) should stay home for up to 3 days (the estimated incubation period for seasonal influenza) (61) starting from their initial contact with the ill person. If they then become ill, they should practice voluntary home isolation (i.e., they should remain at home until recovered as discussed previously; https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/index.html). For certain exposed household members (e.g., those at high risk for influenza complications or with severe immune deficiencies), guidelines should be consulted regarding the prophylactic use of antiviral medications (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/antivirals/index.htm).

Again, this is being adapted from influenza, so the incubation period is longer.

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3 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Thanks for this. It's not the applicability of the advice that I'm curious about, or the support that the medical community has for the advice (advice = "two weeks food/water"). I found several articles along the same lines, quoting many different experts.

What I'm curious about is when and how the CDC communicated this to the general public. And the CDC statement you mentioned a little while ago.

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2 minutes ago, Doug B said:

???

Addressing someone else?

was talking about the pandemic prevention guideline posted above:

Quote

 

Voluntary Home Quarantine

Voluntary home quarantine of non-ill household members of persons with influenza (also called self-quarantine or household quarantine) helps prevent disease spread from households to schools, workplaces, and other households because those household members have been exposed to the influenza virus. Exposed household members of symptomatic persons (with confirmed or probable pandemic influenza) should stay home for up to 3 days (the estimated incubation period for seasonal influenza) (61) starting from their initial contact with the ill person. If they then become ill, they should practice voluntary home isolation (i.e., they should remain at home until recovered as discussed previously; https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/index.html). For certain exposed household members (e.g., those at high risk for influenza complications or with severe immune deficiencies), guidelines should be consulted regarding the prophylactic use of antiviral medications (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/antivirals/index.htm).

 

That's the generic flu recommendation. I don't believe there is one for the coronavirus. Too soon? dunno.

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6 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Understood. Fish had written on the last page something to the effect of "The CDC said to fall back on their pandemic recommendations from 2005". I cannot find where the CDC said that. 

I quoted it for you on the previous page where I linked the guidelines:

 

Quote

  Quote

Dr. Messonnier pointed out that public health organizations in the U.S. already have a basic framework for a pandemic containment strategy.

She directed the public to the CDC’s Community Mitigation Guidelines to Prevent Pandemic Influenza document from 2017, which, she pointed out, contains the key actions that individuals and communities can take in the event that a viral infection should spread widely.

The CDC are currently adapting these existing guidelines specifically to COVID-19.

Just about every new source quoted her on this today. 

Here's one link.

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8 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

They say incubation period 3 days (which is normal). So it's fair to conclude they mean incubation period period. 

???

Incubation is 2-14 days according to crc

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2 minutes ago, -fish- said:

If you know you have been exposed, they recommend voluntary home quarantine.

Thank you for posting this info.

What I thought you were saying is that the CDC -- today, right now -- is ordering the entire U.S. "Two weeks of food and water NOW. Self-quarantine NOW. Off the streets NOW." Like I can go outside right this second, and all businesses are closed, roads are deserted, etc.

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CDC believes at this time that symptoms of COVID-19 may appear in as few as 2 days or as long as 14 days after exposure. This is based on what has been seen previously as the incubation period of MERS-CoV viruses

 

Literally on the website

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4 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Thank you for posting this info.

What I thought you were saying is that the CDC -- today, right now -- is ordering the entire U.S. "Two weeks of food and water NOW. Self-quarantine NOW. Off the streets NOW." Like I can go outside right this second, and all businesses are closed, roads are deserted, etc.

I think the two weeks is getting thrown around is because that's how long the incubation period could possibly be they believe at this time

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2 minutes ago, -fish- said:

I quoted it for you on the previous page where I linked the guidelines ...

Dr. Messonnier pointed out that public health organizations in the U.S. already have a basic framework for a pandemic containment strategy.

She directed the public to the CDC’s Community Mitigation Guidelines to Prevent Pandemic Influenza document from 2017, which, she pointed out, contains the key actions that individuals and communities can take in the event that a viral infection should spread widely.

The CDC are currently adapting these existing guidelines specifically to COVID-19.


"... contains key actions that individuals ... can take in the event ..."???

THAT'S a public order? Dr. Messonnier may know viruses backwards and forwards, but her and the CDC need a lot of help in messaging.

"Buy two weeks of food NOW, dangit!"

"Stock up on two weeks of water NOW, people!"

"Stop going to work TODAY!"

"Keep your darn kids home from school starting NOW!"

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Just now, belljr said:

I think the two weeks is getting thrown around is because that's how long the incubation period could possibly be they believe at this time

And there have been lots of reports of longer incubation periods. But some say those 28-day incubations are actually re-infections. So much we don't have nailed down.

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4 hours ago, urbanhack said:

So maybe now I should start worrying about my trip to Europe in just over two weeks?

:oldunsure:

hack, wait

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8 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

was talking about the pandemic prevention guideline posted above:

That's the generic flu recommendation. I don't believe there is one for the coronavirus. Too soon? dunno.

:blowsout:   Yes.  The CDC has said they are in the process of adapting these guidelines for the coronavirus.   In the meantime they are directing the public to these guidelines.   I've quoted the statement where they said that and provided a link.   

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27 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

This one (jvdesign12324 or whatever, not you) paints with a broad brush.

By the time they need it, full on panic buying will occur in the areas that are effected. 98% of the population is not proactive such as yourself, your cohort and ham. The rest of us go to the store, sometimes daily for the their sustenance and will only become aware of an issue when their go to frozen meal shelf is empty and there is no ice cream left.

Good on you and the crew for thinking ahead. I told the wife last night we should look to stock up on some things for the future based on the information from this thread because I think it will get much worse before it gets better. But more so to avoid being in public and mitigating the panic buying I know will occur than thinking we are heading for armageddon (not saying you are). I live in SC and they routinely clear the shelves for a dusting of snow, the hint of a hurricane and any number of other stupid reasons. I just don't want to go without Twizzlers for months on end.

Note to self: beat @beer 30 to the store for twizzlers.

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11 minutes ago, belljr said:

???

Incubation is 2-14 days according to crc

generic flu

save your extra question marks, sir.

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I had this problem yesterday around the two weeks thing, it wasn't obvious to me that what was quoted as the "GET TWO WEEKS OF FOOD" was really new information or somewhere to point to that was more generic.  I'm still not sure.  

Great website guys, really. :rolleyes:

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10 minutes ago, belljr said:

CDC believes at this time that symptoms of COVID-19 may appear in as few as 2 days or as long as 14 days after exposure. This is based on what has been seen previously as the incubation period of MERS-CoV viruses

 

Literally on the website

Right!

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2 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I had this problem yesterday around the two weeks thing, it wasn't obvious to me that what was quoted as the "GET TWO WEEKS OF FOOD" was really new information or somewhere to point to that was more generic.  I'm still not sure.  

Great website guys, really. :rolleyes:

Pretty sure its generic but we've mixed in the two week incubation info at this point and waaaa laaas, we are all CDC egspurts

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27 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

For the guys on the leading edge of this stuff, do we trust the CDC or do we not trust them? 

When they say "little evidence supports the use of face masks by well persons in community settings," do we believe them are they conspiring to keep all the masks for themselves? 

What do we do with this? Disregard the CDC's findings and get / use them because what can it hurt? 

Edited by JerseyToughGuys

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33 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Department of Homeland Security also has a page for preparing for a pandemic.

https://www.ready.gov/pandemic.  Most of it is common sense.   First recommendation is two weeks food and water.

Quote

Before a Pandemic

Store a two week supply of water and food.

Periodically check your regular prescription drugs to ensure a continuous supply in your home.

Have any nonprescription drugs and other health supplies on hand, including pain relievers, stomach remedies, cough and cold medicines, fluids with electrolytes, and vitamins.

Get copies and maintain electronic versions of health records from doctors, hospitals, pharmacies and other sources and store them, for personal reference. Get help accessing electronic health records.

Talk with family members and loved ones about how they would be cared for if they got sick, or what will be needed to care for them in your home.

During a Pandemic

Limit the Spread of Germs and Prevent Infection

Avoid close contact with people who are sick.

When you are sick, keep your distance from others to protect them from getting sick too.

Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing. It may prevent those around you from getting sick.

Washing your hands often will help protect you from germs.

Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth.

Practice other good health habits. Get plenty of sleep, be physically active, manage your stress, drink plenty of fluids, and eat nutritious food.

why is it every time this gets posted and I'm reading it, I find myself scratching my nose or rubbing my eye or something?  :wall:

Edited by moleculo
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32 minutes ago, -fish- said:
36 minutes ago, Doug B said:
41 minutes ago, JerseyToughGuys said:

More accurate, I believe it’s the generic response that also covers natural disasters.

I saw that page, too. Found it on my own ... no one linked to it.

You're looking for this:  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/rr/rr6601a1.htm

That link is to the CDC's white paper titled "Community Mitigation Guidelines to Prevent Pandemic Influenza — United States, 2017". If that's the basis of what they want the public to do ... that's got to be distilled WAY down.

Search for the word "food" on that page. It appears once:

"Coordinating with local partners to support households complying with voluntary home quarantine (e.g., providing necessary food and supplies)"

I searched that document for "food" to find the specific direction concerning "two weeks of food and water". Nowhere to be found on that page. Search "two weeks" and "14 days"? Nada.

That's a problem because you can't rely on "common sense". You also can't rely on people reading complicated Document A, having to reference complicated Document B, which makes no sense unless you already have knowledge of Document C, etc. Too diffuse, too indirect.

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