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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
- Start date
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
I don't understand why it would be doubted. What did people think would happen when people lost their jobs and were stuck at home with too much time on their hands and in some cases trapped with abusive people. I don't think people realize how many Americans carry a balance under $500 in their checking accounts.
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bentley
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Why would I admit I was wrong when the article pasted backs exactly what I said. If I'm not mistaken, adonis copied and pasted the same article I linked to where it says what types of businesses are now open in Czech Republic. If we could open the equivalent here, most of our economic issues would begin to disappear.
skol asylum
Footballguy
I'm personally getting real tired (not to mention a little pissed off) at people throwing around the term 'fear mongering" in this situation. It's a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. It spread around the world in just a few months and has infected most likely millions with thousands of deaths. Most of the world has SHUT DOWN. There is NO IMMUNITY to this novel virus. It has already overwhelmed medical systems around the world. It has put our healthcare workers in extreme peril because of lack of PPE. It has caused chaos in the global economy. A vaccine is a year plus away. This is not just the flu bro. Just stop already. Please.bucksoh said:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
If it makes you feel better I’ve had a low grade fever since Wednesday
And the viral respiratory infection which kicked my butt for most of October was NOT Covid 19
waiver wire
Footballguy
thanks for the bumpDezbelief said:
I looked into this a week ago , only free shipping in the states . im in Canada so it really didn't work me
thanks for taking the time to search for me
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Lol, found the article that specifies the types of businesses reopening in Czech Republic on Tuesday as I mentioned earlier...
https://news.expats.cz/weekly-czech-news/breaking-czech-republic-begins-to-soften-anti-coronavirus-measures/
Real essential stuff there. I'll be doing jumping jacks when businesses like that are reopening here.
https://news.expats.cz/weekly-czech-news/breaking-czech-republic-begins-to-soften-anti-coronavirus-measures/
Real essential stuff there. I'll be doing jumping jacks when businesses like that are reopening here.
NotSmart
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Guidelines for COVID-19 management, from the Infectious Disease Society of America. Nothing earth shattering.
Cliff's notes: Hydroxychloroquine and other experimental therapies are only recommended for use in hospitalized patients enrolled in a clinical trial, probably should avoid NSAIDS like ibuprofen, and keep on taking BP meds ACE inhibitors and ARBS if already on them.
Cliff's notes: Hydroxychloroquine and other experimental therapies are only recommended for use in hospitalized patients enrolled in a clinical trial, probably should avoid NSAIDS like ibuprofen, and keep on taking BP meds ACE inhibitors and ARBS if already on them.
adonis
Footballguy
I wasn't trying to prove you wrong, but to provide more detail on what the CR was doing.
And it still seems a bit early to determine the results of their actions as most of them seem to go into effect today. In a couple of weeks we'll know whether it was folly, a good idea, or somewhere in between.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
My SIL hooked up with a TX company last week and got about 4,000 masks and a ton of hand sanitizer. He’s selling the stuff then taking the profits and buying meals for healthcare workers. Good idea but he’s getting all kinds of hate mail because he’s selling masks. Weird times.Dezbelief said:
Well in my case, I quit holding hands with you all. Seems to have cut down on the sniffles
BigJim®
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure said:
It sort of feels like the points you suggest. That so many more have actually already had it than we've counted, so maybe we're actually reaching herd immunity, and if that's true maybe we should just get back to normalcy. It really doesn't do much for me as a theory until we do mass testing for antibodies. Even then, the numbers of people who have them won't matter re: timing, and maybe even those antibodies % numbers don't matter if some can become re-infected (as someone posted findings earlier). There's just so much to be proven scientifically.
adonis
Footballguy
So wait...are they going out on a huge limb here and saying that we shouldn't take drugs that repeatable studies don't show help fight a disease?
Get...out.
On the same note, I hope that soon there are some clear studies showing that these drugs or other drugs are effective treatments for this disease.
But dear God, the idiocy of promoting drugs to fight a disease without appropriate scientific backing...it's just the epitome of horrible leadership.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
This is well put, thank you. But the counter is that some countries have reopened and others are in the process of doing so after flattening their curves but without the anti-body data. And it's because they're weighing the harm of staying shut down for as long as it would take to have all that scientifically proven data.
It sort of feels like the points you suggest. That so many more have actually already had it than we've counted, so maybe we're actually reaching herd immunity, and if that's true maybe we should just get back to normalcy. It really doesn't do much for me as a theory until we do mass testing for antibodies. Even then, the numbers of people who have them won't matter re: timing, and maybe even those antibodies % numbers don't matter if some can become re-infected (as someone posted findings earlier). There's just so much to be proven scientifically.
-fish-
Footballguy
You said they were an example of a country reopening quickly. They aren't. You used them as an example of a country not overreacting. They completely locked down the country. Your arguments fell apart and now you're backpedaling. That's fine. Your previous posts are still there.
Statorama
gangster
There's a few people that will never miss a paycheck, let alone never miss a meal, that are making decisions that disproportionately impact people that will. At some point someone has to champion their cause. The invisible victims. They are getting lost in all of this.
The message from Team Optimism is listen to everything and keep an open mind. Even things that oppose what the last guy said. Don't just believe one doctor over another simply because one was on TV. Trust your instincts. Trust your instincts! Don't let Team Apocalypse guilt you into not trusting your interpretation of the information you ingest. There are many experts out there, don't just trust the handful that hit the TV circuit.
Listen to EVERYTHING and draw your own conclusions. You're a lot smarter than Team Apocalypse gives you credit for. Be an information sponge. Don't be narrow minded. Think about FF, do you draft based on the opinion of one expert or take in data from all over and draw your own conclusions? Draw your knowledge from all sources and trust you can separate the wheat from the chaff.
Nobody wants to lift the lockdown and put lives in danger because they are butt hurt they can't eat ribs at TGIFridays anymore. There's a legitimate concern that there are long term impacts tied to this lockdown that are not being considered.
The message from Team Optimism is listen to everything and keep an open mind. Even things that oppose what the last guy said. Don't just believe one doctor over another simply because one was on TV. Trust your instincts. Trust your instincts! Don't let Team Apocalypse guilt you into not trusting your interpretation of the information you ingest. There are many experts out there, don't just trust the handful that hit the TV circuit.
Listen to EVERYTHING and draw your own conclusions. You're a lot smarter than Team Apocalypse gives you credit for. Be an information sponge. Don't be narrow minded. Think about FF, do you draft based on the opinion of one expert or take in data from all over and draw your own conclusions? Draw your knowledge from all sources and trust you can separate the wheat from the chaff.
Nobody wants to lift the lockdown and put lives in danger because they are butt hurt they can't eat ribs at TGIFridays anymore. There's a legitimate concern that there are long term impacts tied to this lockdown that are not being considered.
adonis
Footballguy
What's more, is that the "re-opening" hasn't happened yet. We can't determine yet whether it's a good idea.
They have a population of 10.6 million. 1/30th our size. Let's see how it goes before we hold them up as an example, no?
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
They did reopen relatively quickly. They shut down 5 days before the U.S. Did I miss the announcement here of the clear to go back to work in 5 days? They didn't overreact by shutting down everything for an unsustainable period of time. They also don't have huge swaths of land where this virus is a complete non factor so it's not exactly apples to apples. I haven't backpedaled an inch. I've been remarkably consistent about what I'm saying. I'm not the one running around claiming proof of something in a link never provided. Or did you already forget that you said Czech Republic hasn't begun opening businesses because your friend who lives there and the missing NY Times article say otherwise?
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Watching the documentary on the Spanish Flu. Very interesting. SF was the least affected because they forsaw it coming there. SF had aggressive response by the local government who listened to the public health officials. Naval quarantines were set up, public gatherings banned, schools closed, they laid out plans and organised the response before flu hit, medical orgs educated people on the flu, they handed out 100k masks. Places like Philadelphia were still denying there was a problem while people who didn't wear masks in SF were shot if they refused to wear one. SF rejoiced as the flu skipped it there. But there was another wave when the flu mutated and because they let their guard down, SF was hit.
Capella
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
What??? They're literally allowing people to swim in public swimming pools and shop in hobby stores. And come Tuesday they're opening bottom rung businesses such as shoe stores and children's stores. Wake me up when we're anywhere close to being that open.
-fish-
Footballguy
They are not reopen unless you consider small business with few employees and playing tennis reopen. They are still shut down. I am talking to people who live in Prague who are describing the shutdown. Even the one link you came up with says that some small businesses can reopen. That's not reopening, and your entire point was that they didn't put in place heavy restrictions. You are absolutely wrong about that.
Your premise was wrong and your facts are wrong, but somehow you still want to argue that you're right?
moleculo
Footballguy
DO NOT TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.
Trust data. Trust the experts. If you see experts with differing opinions, trust the experts that experts trust, and trust experts who are actual, bona fide experts in the field of discussion. Don't trust Dr Drew because he is a doctor, but trust Dr Fauci because he has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984.
Its not optimism vs pessimism, its data vs hope.
shader
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
If I could "love" this post 10,000 times, I'd spend the amount of time it would take to do so.
-fish-
Footballguy
Playing tennis is not reopening the country. Small businesses that can employ social distancing, precisely because of how small they are, are being allowed to reopen. That's not restarting the economy. These facts just don't twist in your favor.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
It took close to 2 weeks between lockdown and the curve flattening. Lets see if what Czechs are doing is prudent before claiming it a great success.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
If I could like this ten times, I wouldn’t because that’d be weird. But it’s a good post.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
You literally can't get anything I said right, can you?
How many links do you need that say the businesses are already open and the last remaining, least essential ones are set to open on Tuesday?
You tell me I'm wrong 4-5 times now and still haven't provided one link. The link you come up with is going to have to be contrary to CR's government announcements.
adonis
Footballguy
The MSM contacts experts because they're tops in their field. Fauci - why is he involved? Because he's spent a lifetime doing work in this arena and is prepared both in terms of experience, ability to interpret data, and connections to all folks in this field.
Why should common folks "trust your instincts"? This is a HORRIBLE idea. Folks haven't evolved to be able to have an instinctual understanding of how epidemiological pandemics spread. Folks don't have some evolutionarily trained instinct into such things. Fire hot. Hungry, need food. Woman, need to *****. Beyond this, our entire education system is devised to overcome our instincts, our ignorance, and learn from history, learn math, learn how the world works in ways contrary to what we'd expect.
The worst advice in the world for most folks is to trust your instincts in areas instincts don't prepare folks to handle. Global, once in a 100 years epidemics are such situations.
So sure. Listen to everything. But for God's sakes...our economy is built on the idea of specialization. On the idea that we don't all do equally well every job. We specialize. We focus. We gain expertise in certain areas.
Certain folks devote their lives to studying infectious diseases. These folks are epidemiologists. These folks are the guys the MSM have on their programs, who are influencing Trump, who are speaking at his press conferences. These are the folks to listen to, to subjugate your own "intuitions" to, because GOOD GOD these guys/ladies have been spending their lives focusing on these areas. They understand the subject matter more than you do.
For God's sake...don't listen to Statorama. Don't trust your instincts because unless you can explain to my what evolutionary biology makes you, as an individual, well prepared on an instinctual level to assess the entirety of a global pandemic...keep your mouth shut and listen to folks who specialize in this area and trust the experts. It's embarrassing that I have to make this point but thats' where we are in society. Where someone can non-jokingly suggest that the average person has any idea on the situation here.
This is how you get to a point where armchair, non-college graduate, beer guzzling, crotch scratching good guys have as much standing to assess a global pandemic as the Fauci's of the world. Here we are. And I love scratching my crotch and beer as much as the next guy...but good lord I know when I'm out of my depth. And despite multiple degrees, focusing on science, and huge amounts of math, I defer to the experts. I listen to the data. I listen to their judgements on what's going to happen, and why things should be done a certain way like social distancing. I hear their concerns, and I see the deaths going on right now in huge cities like NY with nearly 1k deaths in a single state and I can easily say "damn...you guys nailed this."
And then I hear folks suggesting people should "trust their instincts". What rubbish.
Of course there are consequences to shutting down the economy. There are also consequences to NOT shutting down the economy.
The only way to reasonably determine which is worse is to follow the data. NOT to trust our instincts. One leads to quality conclusions, and the other leads to catastrophe.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Actually it took over 3 weeks. What took 2 weeks was the time from mandating masks to flattening the curve. Something we haven't done, making it highly unlikely we'll allow businesses such as retail shops and swimming pools to open after less than a month. We'd have to start opening those types of things in the next week to match what they've done. Yes, it remains to be seen if reopening such non essential businesses is wise. But they're undoubtedly weighing the harm of keeping everything closed to wait for all the answers.
adonis
Footballguy
And my point is, let's see what happens in 2-3 weeks in CR. Until that happens, we can't say whether it's a good idea or not.
-fish-
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
cosjobs
Footballguy
That wasn't my handMy SIL hooked up with a TX company last week and got about 4,000 masks and a ton of hand sanitizer. He’s selling the stuff then taking the profits and buying meals for healthcare workers. Good idea but he’s getting all kinds of hate mail because he’s selling masks. Weird times.
Well in my case, I quit holding hands with you all. Seems to have cut down on the sniffles
moleculo
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
No disagreement at all with that. We. Shall. See.
I'd only add that they obviously have their reasons for reopening businesses before they have anti-bodies testing data and the final report on what this is. They seem to think management going forward and reopening society is the best overall path.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Easy retort to that strawman is how many countries are lining up to choose the path we took?
CurlyNight
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
And some countries think socialism is better than capitalism. Or communism. Different countries make different decisions for different reasons.
Let's see how they turn out, and as a country, let's make the best decision we can based on the best data we have at our disposal.
NotSmart
Footballguy
Sadly the US didn't choose a path, we were completely unprepared at a national level for this pandemic.
Every move we've made has been one we've been forced into.
Reactive instead of proactive.
-fish-
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
By the path we took, do you mean wait 6 weeks before doing anything, delay testing and ration out tests we actually have? And when we do lock down, have so many exemptions to render it meaningless? And as soon as we see that the mitigation is working, push to abandon it?
I have no idea.
BigJim®
Footballguy
It's the one benefit the US has, is some ability to react to findings in China, Italy, Spain, and even Sweden. I'm not real hopeful we use that time well if we get too out in front of results and facts, and you don't know until a month later if you guessed wrong. This pandemic just seems to be teaching the same lesson over and over so far.
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