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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (13 Viewers)

Good choice!

Population - 578,757
Positives - 1,550
Deaths - 20
Tests - 47,932

Wyoming didn't have it's first day of positive cases over 20 until June 8th.  Since then, they have averaged 20 cases per day.  I know the numbers look tiny, but Wyoming is the least populous state.  On the bright side, they haven't recorded a death in over 2 weeks.

Also, it's very important to note - any person who fails to close a fence in Wyoming is subject to a fine of up to seven hundred and fifty dollars.

 
Or maybe as likely the vulnerable populations are still taking this seriously but the younger ones aren't. Thus deaths aren't really increasing even though cares are rising.
First signs that deaths are increasing will come from states where cases are increasing. Florida seems to have reversed their decline and is on the rise again.  Texas and Arizona also seem to be on the start of an increase.

 
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Not sure what's been happening the last couple pages, but are we now pretending my state isn't jam packed with "northerners" from NY/NJ?  I'm not really sure we want to go down that path do we?  What a weird tangent to take  :lol:  

That said, the politicians here in Florida are melting under the spotlight at this point.  They did a ton of positive groundwork to prep and have absolutely crapped the bed in execution.  The only thing they HAVEN'T done that NY did do was send sick people back to nursing homes causing many more deaths.  
The reason they did it was hospitals didn’t have room for all but sickest (they won’t admit it was a mistake or necessity but it was). I hope things don’t get so bad that hospitals are crushed to that level in the south.  Though I worry about it. 

 
Here on the Treasure Coast, quite a few people still wear them, but it's not a certainty. It's super easy to do, but people go nuts over it for some reason. Yes it's hot, it's July in Florida. Deal with it, and remember that you probably have at risk family members that could at least use the courtesy.
Same here in New Orleans. Still, local mask usage is steadily increasing after cratering a bit for the first half of May.

You're not supposed to be hanging out in the heat all day, in a crowd, with your face covering on, anyway. Drive to where you're going sans face covering in your nice air-conditioned vehicle. Put on your face covering before exiting, then spend 30 seconds walking to the entrance, and enjoy the cool A/C indoors while wearing your mask.

No one is asking anyone to trek through Jumanji double-time in heat/humidity, for hours at a time, while wearing a tight welt-raising N95. Practicing for an Ironman triathlon in 95o heat? Yeah, you can ditch the face covering.

 
The reason they did it was hospitals didn’t have room for all but sickest (they won’t admit it was a mistake or necessity but it was). I hope things don’t get so bad that hospitals are crushed to that level in the south.  Though I worry about it. 
Best thing the south has going for it is that there are some taking precautions, it’s not as dense as NYC, and so cases won’t be rising as quickly as they did in NYC. 

On the flip side, New York reached the point where they shut everything down, whihc immediately halted the exponential growth. No one seems to be even considering that right now.  I’m hopeful a groundswell of caution from everyone will keep it from getting too bad. We will see.

 
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Best thing the south has going for it is that there are some taking precautions, it’s not as dense as NYC, and so cases won’t be rising as quickly as they did in NYC. 

On the flip side, New York reached the point where the shut everything down, which no one seems to be even considering now.  I’m hopeful a groundswell of caution can keep it from getting too bad. We will see.
Last night, Texas was down to 13% ICU bed availability. If we can't turn it around quickly, things are going to get REALLY ugly. Closing all city and county parks for the weekend, while painful, was a great call. We learned well from what happened 14 days to the day after Memorial Day Weekend ended. Easily trackable exponential trend in positive cases.

 
Putting this here for posterity.  Wild ### guess here as why the case load is not creating piles of bodies.  

Something has happened, the virus is far more contagious but far less deadly than when it hit NYC and Italy.  It's as if once it circulates somewhere it self weakens.   Herd immunity may not be so much immunity altogether but immunity from symptoms and is happening sooner than anyone thought.  Maybe at even 20-30% of population 
I follow one of the Italian doctors who hypothesized an adapting/weaker virus in Italy several weeks ago. He posted an update a few hours ago. Translated from Italian so kind of rough. He seems to latch onto the belief that there is perhaps more undetected immunity in their population. 

Prof. Matteo Bassetti- Infettivologo

@Prof.MatteoBassetti  · Scientist

Since the opening of the lockdown despite some catastrophists ′′ waiting on the river ′′ or ′′ you'll see in 15 days that we'll be over ", we've witnessed a progressive decrease in clinical cases and Covid-19. numbers. This is happened rather quickly, faster than expectations.

Especially in Liguria, one of the most affected regions by the Covid-19 emergency, by a peak of 178 hospitalized in ICU we are at 3 (and all dating back to longtime Covid-19 sick) , from a peak hospitalized of 1320 we are at 44, it's been 5 days that we have been at 0 deaths and positive swabs (attention not sick but only feedback of positivity on the buffer) we are at 2 ; practically the disease seems to have died since the period of ′′ infectious ′′ of the disease, at most lasts about 1 month.

It seems to me an absolutely positive and comforting fact because we are more than two months away from opening after the lockdown and we practically don't see the pathology from Covid anymore, but only positivity to the buffer in asymptomatic or not symptomatic subjects.

Similar data come from almost every other Italian region where total hospital hospitals are under 100. units and those in ICU less than 100.

But more than taking note of these (fortunately) encouraging and objective given the question everyone asks is WHY?

How come the clinical disease is practically (at least in Liguria and Northern Italy where the virus hit hard) CLINICALLY GONE?

Various hypotheses have been in recent weeks, all suggestive waiting to be tried in the laboratory: the virus has changed in a lighter form?, has the viral load decreased? Has the virus adapted to the host? Is the virus deactivated by heat and ultraviolet? We'll see...

Today is a very interesting study of the Karolinska Institute and Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm, Sweden and of which we attach the link (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.29.174888v1) that could explain why despite the ′′ motides ′′ and the almost total opening continue to decrease the cases in particularly affected areas like ours... the answer would be because most of us have immunity that is difficult to detect.... a much greater immunity than that detected by serological tests that have the big limit of low sensitivity Good morning. The study that is a new research shows that many Covid-19 sick people in a mild or asymptomatic way - and therefore have not, in many cases, never realized that they have contracted the disease - have developed the so-called ′′ immunity ′′ SARS-CoV-2 mediated T-cells, although they do not test positive for antibodies in serological tests. According to researchers, in other words, this means that probably more people in the population have developed immunity to SARS-CoV-2 than suggested by antibody tests.

This research might also explain why some people who have fallen ill with Covid-19 are not positive for serological tests, focusing on another part of the immune system's response to the disease. I mean by extrapolating the message of work, the fact that the virus is much more harmless comes from a high percentage of immunes that do not allow the virus to replicate.

Serological tests have been tested on very serious patients, with viral loads and their respective high antibody responses and therefore the sensitivity of the test (meaning the ability of a test to properly identify the subject affected by the disease) of approximately 80 % Good morning. She has probably been overestimated and not by little; therefore the real immune are many more.

This original work could therefore represent a ′′ scientific ′′ explanation and not just hypothetical and deductive of the current benign clinical behavior of the pandemic. Obviously if this is confirmed by other studies, the pandemic ′′ could have less arrows in its bow ". Let's hope so

 
CDC has been posting weekly updates of deaths by age.  I've posted many in here, and here is the most recent one, dated 1 Jul

Under 1 = 9 deaths = .008%
1 - 4 = 6 deaths = 0.005%
5 - 14 = 14 deaths = 0.012%
15 - 24 = 142 deaths = 0.127%
25 - 34 = 770 deaths = 0.686%
35 - 44 = 1972 deaths = 1.757%
45 - 54 = 5488 deaths = 4.890%
55 - 64 = 13465 deaths = 11.998%
65 - 74 = 23333 deaths = 20.791%
75 - 84 = 29780 deaths = 26.536%
85 and over = 37, 247 deaths = 33.189%

A major reason the death tolls aren't rising with the spikes in cases.  What we don't really have a good grasp on is how many of these young folks are ending up hospitalized.  If they can self-heal from home after being diagnosed, hospitals may be able to hang in there.

 
Arizona hospitals looking bad. COVID ER visits spiked to 1800 yesterday, 500 more than the previous high yesterday. Highs in acute and ICU COVID cases and overall ICU up to 91%. 4430 new cases continuing to run at about 25% positive.

Some are questioning the huge ER spike and I hope their right. I’m not sure how the determine COVID ER visits, if it’s people who test positive or just people coming to the ER with COVID concerns. One possibility is due to the backup at testing sites that they’re going to the ER to try and get tested.

 
CDC has been posting weekly updates of deaths by age.  I've posted many in here, and here is the most recent one, dated 1 Jul

Under 1 = 9 deaths = .008%
1 - 4 = 6 deaths = 0.005%
5 - 14 = 14 deaths = 0.012%
15 - 24 = 142 deaths = 0.127%
25 - 34 = 770 deaths = 0.686%
35 - 44 = 1972 deaths = 1.757%
45 - 54 = 5488 deaths = 4.890%
55 - 64 = 13465 deaths = 11.998%
65 - 74 = 23333 deaths = 20.791%
75 - 84 = 29780 deaths = 26.536%
85 and over = 37, 247 deaths = 33.189%

A major reason the death tolls aren't rising with the spikes in cases.  What we don't really have a good grasp on is how many of these young folks are ending up hospitalized.  If they can self-heal from home after being diagnosed, hospitals may be able to hang in there.
Is that the death rate for those who are hospitalized?

 
CDC has been posting weekly updates of deaths by age.  I've posted many in here, and here is the most recent one, dated 1 Jul

Under 1 = 9 deaths = .008%
1 - 4 = 6 deaths = 0.005%
5 - 14 = 14 deaths = 0.012%
15 - 24 = 142 deaths = 0.127%
25 - 34 = 770 deaths = 0.686%
35 - 44 = 1972 deaths = 1.757%
45 - 54 = 5488 deaths = 4.890%
55 - 64 = 13465 deaths = 11.998%
65 - 74 = 23333 deaths = 20.791%
75 - 84 = 29780 deaths = 26.536%
85 and over = 37, 247 deaths = 33.189%

A major reason the death tolls aren't rising with the spikes in cases.  What we don't really have a good grasp on is how many of these young folks are ending up hospitalized.  If they can self-heal from home after being diagnosed, hospitals may be able to hang in there.
Except if all the careless young people who have represented the reason for the recent spikes visit their older relatives, shouldn’t we soon see a similar spike in older people cases and then later deaths down the road?

 
Arizona hospitals looking bad. COVID ER visits spiked to 1800 yesterday, 500 more than the previous high yesterday. Highs in acute and ICU COVID cases and overall ICU up to 91%. 4430 new cases continuing to run at about 25% positive.

Some are questioning the huge ER spike and I hope their right. I’m not sure how the determine COVID ER visits, if it’s people who test positive or just people coming to the ER with COVID concerns. One possibility is due to the backup at testing sites that they’re going to the ER to try and get tested.
Arizona, Florida, Texas. 3 states in the beginning stages of the hospitalization spike stage of this virus. None of this should be surprising, it’s exactly what this virus does.

 
Except if all the careless young people who have represented the reason for the recent spikes visit their older relatives, shouldn’t we soon see a similar spike in older people cases and then later deaths down the road?
Better treatment compared to 3 months ago will hopefully mitigate deaths in the elderly. But according to this new study from MIT of the 16 most populous counties in Florida,  you're correct: Data From the COVID-19 Epidemic in Florida Suggest That Younger Cohorts Have Been Transmitting Their Infections to Less Socially Mobile Older Adults

 
Better treatment compared to 3 months ago will hopefully mitigate deaths in the elderly. But according to this new study from MIT of the 16 most populous counties in Florida,  you're correct: Data From the COVID-19 Epidemic in Florida Suggest That Younger Cohorts Have Been Transmitting Their Infections to Less Socially Mobile Older Adults
http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/state_reports_latest.pdf

Official data from Florida shows the age is rising.

Median age of positive cases in last 7 days: 36.2

Median age in the 7 days previous: 33.5

 
I follow one of the Italian doctors who hypothesized an adapting/weaker virus in Italy several weeks ago. He posted an update a few hours ago. Translated from Italian so kind of rough. He seems to latch onto the belief that there is perhaps more undetected immunity in their population

...

This original work could therefore represent a ′′ scientific ′′ explanation and not just hypothetical and deductive of the current benign clinical behavior of the pandemic. Obviously if this is confirmed by other studies, the pandemic ′′ could have less arrows in its bow ". Let's hope so.
If you read around enough on this stuff, it becomes apparent that many researchers from all over are starting to suspect the bolded. More research is still needed to reach true scientific consensus ... right now, call it more of a collective educated hunch.

Unaccounted-for immunity, while nowhere near locked down yet through research, seems to theoretically answer a lot of questions about the way COVID-19 spreads (or sometimes, doesn't spread).

I still think, too, that a lot more is going to be found about how Carrier A barely sheds any virus while Carrier B shed a ton. This inconsistency in the ability of individual carriers to spread virus is also something strongly suspected. It happens routinely with other viruses ... no reason it wouldn't be the same with COVID-19.

 
Is that the death rate for those who are hospitalized?


Except if all the careless young people who have represented the reason for the recent spikes visit their older relatives, shouldn’t we soon see a similar spike in older people cases and then later deaths down the road?
Let me ask it a different way - Will old at-risk people allow their young whippersnapper relatives to come near them after knowing their young whippersnapper relatives are maroons?  At what point do you put some of the blame on the cat for entering the dog park?

 
Arizona, Florida, Texas. 3 states in the beginning stages of the hospitalization spike stage of this virus. None of this should be surprising, it’s exactly what this virus does.
Exactly. I get everyone trying to find positives things to latch on to right now but we need to be realistic. 
 

I believe @Terminalxylem had posted a long time ago about viral loads. The more you are exposed to this the more severe the symptoms. So places where cases are declining have lower viral loads. Also would explain that Italian doctor above thinking the virus is mutating when that’s not the case. 

 
Except if all the careless young people who have represented the reason for the recent spikes visit their older relatives, shouldn’t we soon see a similar spike in older people cases and then later deaths down the road?
Better treatment compared to 3 months ago will hopefully mitigate deaths in the elderly. But according to this new study from MIT of the 16 most populous counties in Florida,  you're correct: Data From the COVID-19 Epidemic in Florida Suggest That Younger Cohorts Have Been Transmitting Their Infections to Less Socially Mobile Older Adults
Not a surprise in the least -- it's not like young adults leave crowded bars and then go into their stasis pods until it's time for their next party. Young adults interact in numbers with wider society, including plenty of "the vulnerable".

 
When the state of NY was at the peak, how many cases were they getting each day? What was their record number?
No one knows. They couldn’t test all cases at peak. Highest reported numbers were 11k but surely more. I know people admitted to the Hospital who were not tested as they were basically only testing those in ICU in NYC.
 

Public orders at time were to not seek testing either and to assume you had it and self quarantine if you showed any symptoms as there was no place you could get a test if you wanted one.  
 

 
If you read around enough on this stuff, it becomes apparent that many researchers from all over are starting to suspect the bolded. More research is still needed to reach true scientific consensus ... right now, call it more of a collective educated hunch.

Unaccounted-for immunity, while nowhere near locked down yet through research, seems to theoretically answer a lot of questions about the way COVID-19 spreads (or sometimes, doesn't spread).

I still think, too, that a lot more is going to be found about how Carrier A barely sheds any virus while Carrier B shed a ton. This inconsistency in the ability of individual carriers to spread virus is also something strongly suspected. It happens routinely with other viruses ... no reason it wouldn't be the same with COVID-19.
I read something recently about how exposure to other coronaviruses (colds) may also have something to do with this. The problem is, as we know, that’s only temporary. How many people in here get cold at least once or even a couple of times a year?

 
Let me ask it a different way - Will old at-risk people allow their young whippersnapper relatives to come near them after knowing their young whippersnapper relatives are maroons? 
At an individual level? Sure, some old at-risk people will do just that. Situations vary all over the place ... there's no blanket assumption you can just throw over an entire cohort.

 
Let me ask it a different way - Will old at-risk people allow their young whippersnapper relatives to come near them after knowing their young whippersnapper relatives are maroons?  At what point do you put some of the blame on the cat for entering the dog park?
You’re assuming the old, at-risk people have more sensibility than their younger offspring. 

 
Let me ask it a different way - Will old at-risk people allow their young whippersnapper relatives to come near them after knowing their young whippersnapper relatives are maroons?  At what point do you put some of the blame on the cat for entering the dog park?
You mean like the FBG that posted his BIL went to a bachelor party in AZ then flew back and went over to visit the parents of his wife? And then the dad, knowing he had been exposed to the virus by the younger maroons, told the son about it while having a beer out at a restaurant?? Yea, pretty sure lots of older people aren't that bright, just like the young people that infect them.

 
At an individual level? Sure, some old at-risk people will do just that. Situations vary all over the place ... there's no blanket assumption you can just throw over an entire cohort.
The problem with my logic is this - just because you are 20-something and may be invincible, it shouldn't give you the right to get yourself infected and not quarantine, because you are, in effect, forcing everyone else to quarantine by doing so.

 
Let me ask it a different way - Will old at-risk people allow their young whippersnapper relatives to come near them after knowing their young whippersnapper relatives are maroons?  At what point do you put some of the blame on the cat for entering the dog park?
Correct, it works both ways. But luckily I'm still worth more alive than dead to my 2 daughters, based on their behavior. One is doing a virtual dissertation defense in Boston in August and she told me not to come to celebrate. The other is here in Miami living with her half-brother and the closest contact we've had was father's day vegan pizza in her backyard about 10 feet apart. She went to 3 of the large protests in Miami, with a mask. But she was cautious around me even before then.

 
Arizona hospitals looking bad. COVID ER visits spiked to 1800 yesterday, 500 more than the previous high yesterday. Highs in acute and ICU COVID cases and overall ICU up to 91%. 4430 new cases continuing to run at about 25% positive.

Some are questioning the huge ER spike and I hope their right. I’m not sure how the determine COVID ER visits, if it’s people who test positive or just people coming to the ER with COVID concerns. One possibility is due to the backup at testing sites that they’re going to the ER to try and get tested.
Arizona should go into the complete lockdown they never did in the first place. Somewhere between 70-84 days should do the trick. Then a phased reopening, without bars and clubs, with full masks and social distancing rules.

Sorry AZ, you didn’t do what you needed to do. The nurses getting yelled at by the “open it up” protestors tried to warn you. But no, and now you have testing sites with lines for miles and hospitals that look like a trauma ward. You were warned. “We’re not NYC though”. Sure. Until you are.

 
I read something recently about how exposure to other coronaviruses (colds) may also have something to do with this. The problem is, as we know, that’s only temporary. How many people in here get cold at least once or even a couple of times a year?
The bolded is true, but this will very rarely be the exact same virus coming back again and again.

Several coronaviruses do cause common colds, but the number of known rhinoviruses that can cause cold symptoms is pushing 100. Plus dozens of other types of viruses altogether.

 
At an individual level? Sure, some old at-risk people will do just that. Situations vary all over the place ... there's no blanket assumption you can just throw over an entire cohort.
The problem with my logic is this - just because you are 20-something and may be invincible, it shouldn't give you the right to get yourself infected and not quarantine, because you are, in effect, forcing everyone else to quarantine by doing so.
Right on.

 
Arizona, Florida, Texas. 3 states in the beginning stages of the hospitalization spike stage of this virus. None of this should be surprising, it’s exactly what this virus does.
Yeah I know. AZ is screwed. Masks seem to be much better but the grocery stores are still packed with people stocking up for parties this weekend. The closing of bars, while good for my friends who own breweries/restaurants, was rather fruitless. They did it based on their liquor license, so only a fraction of the places were closed. And while those places and gyms closed, casinos are reopening with long lines to get in on a Friday morning.

 
Arizona should go into the complete lockdown they never did in the first place. Somewhere between 70-84 days should do the trick. Then a phased reopening, without bars and clubs, with full masks and social distancing rules.

Sorry AZ, you didn’t do what you needed to do. The nurses getting yelled at by the “open it up” protestors tried to warn you. But no, and now you have testing sites with lines for miles and hospitals that look like a trauma ward. You were warned. “We’re not NYC though”. Sure. Until you are.
When they shut down bars they put it for at least 30 days. There’s some belief that at the end of the 30 days they will re-evaluate and expand the closures but I think that’s rather optimistic, I think we’re looking at a new lockdown within two weeks. Based on how much the gyms are fighting this current one, they might have be aggressive to get any sort of compliance.

 
Yeah I know. AZ is screwed. Masks seem to be much better but the grocery stores are still packed with people stocking up for parties this weekend. The closing of bars, while good for my friends who own breweries/restaurants, was rather fruitless. They did it based on their liquor license, so only a fraction of the places were closed. And while those places and gyms closed, casinos are reopening with long lines to get in on a Friday morning.
Funny that you mentioned casinos.  One of the biggest casinos in the world (Foxwoods) is located in my county, about a 10 minute drive for me.  Wife and I went there a few days ago.  How safe did I feel?  Safer than I have inside any building, other than my own home.  You could not enter without a mask and a temperature check, they closed off many slots to maintain distancing, and for those games like 21, etc. there were plexiglass walls between every person.  And there were no waiters or waitresses walking around asking if you wanted a free drink.

 
Funny that you mentioned casinos.  One of the biggest casinos in the world (Foxwoods) is located in my county, about a 10 minute drive for me.  Wife and I went there a few days ago.  How safe did I feel?  Safer than I have inside any building, other than my own home.  You could not enter without a mask and a temperature check, they closed off many slots to maintain distancing, and for those games like 21, etc. there were plexiglass walls between every person.  And there were no waiters or waitresses walking around asking if you wanted a free drink.
:sadbanana:

 
Arizona should go into the complete lockdown they never did in the first place. Somewhere between 70-84 days should do the trick. Then a phased reopening, without bars and clubs, with full masks and social distancing rules.

Sorry AZ, you didn’t do what you needed to do. The nurses getting yelled at by the “open it up” protestors tried to warn you. But no, and now you have testing sites with lines for miles and hospitals that look like a trauma ward. You were warned. “We’re not NYC though”. Sure. Until you are.
Sorry to break it to you but no state went on total lockdown and no state will.  As a resident of AZ I am confident we will get through this just fine.

 
Sorry to break it to you but no state went on total lockdown and no state will.  As a resident of AZ I am confident we will get through this just fine.
Question - Florida, Arizona, Texas and California seemed to be doing great through May. Why would they have changed what they were doing come June?

 
Funny that you mentioned casinos.  One of the biggest casinos in the world (Foxwoods) is located in my county, about a 10 minute drive for me.  Wife and I went there a few days ago.  How safe did I feel?  Safer than I have inside any building, other than my own home.  You could not enter without a mask and a temperature check, they closed off many slots to maintain distancing, and for those games like 21, etc. there were plexiglass walls between every person.  And there were no waiters or waitresses walking around asking if you wanted a free drink.
I heard the precautions that Atlantic City was taking and casinos can certainly be done safely. I don’t have much confidence in these casinos. They already had to re-shutdown because of employee outbreaks and lack of precautions taken.

 
Hawaii has a huge benefit in being islands far away from everyone else. Essentially controlling anyone from coming in and infecting everyone else is a huge advantage. Pretty easy to track anyone coming in as well. States like NY, NJ, VA, etc just have massive amounts of people constantly in, out, and through the state making it extremely difficult to contain and track people.

Hawaii would have been in a lot of trouble if they didn’t lock down early and follow guidelines because it also could have quickly spread on the islands.
You are correct, but we also have a huge Asian population, including people traveling back and forth to China and S Korea. I remember an early link which modeled areas most likely to be hit by c-19, and Honolulu was third or fourth on the list behind NYC, LA and San Fran? based on international travel from hot spots. 

But that same population tends to follow rules a lot better than the typical American. And yes, we restricted activity a little more than many places, plus we’ve had an indoor mask mandate for a while.

All that being said, we have a ton of high risk situations created by multigenerational housing and a big homeless population. We also have a lot of really old people.

If we have a big outbreak, it could get ugly quickly, as we don’t have the luxury of the same interstate supply chain as the rest of the continental US. Being on an island isn’t always advantageous.

 
Question - Florida, Arizona, Texas and California seemed to be doing great through May. Why would they have changed what they were doing come June?
Christopher Walken, Sissy Spacek, and Brendan Fraser lived underground for 30 years and stayed safe.  They only came up because they thought the coast was clear.

 

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