parasaurolophus
Footballguy
No danger whatsoever is a unicorn.Doug B said:
They say things more along the lines of not proven, only circumstantial evidence, possible, minimal spread, etc.
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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (17 Viewers)
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They say things more along the lines of not proven, only circumstantial evidence, possible, minimal spread, etc.
shader
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Key part bolded. Many people (~40% in the US) are deficient, and the likelihood increases during dark winter months - it's one of the reasons for seasonality of upper respiratory infections.
The utility of supraphysiologic vitamin D supplementation to prevent or treat covid is controversial at best.
If you're gonna take it, make sure it's D3, 1-2,000 IU daily. Don't go crazy with 10K+ units, unless truly deficient and advised by a physician.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Yes, she did a good job of taking the 99.9% level of precaution almost everyone else was taking and went to the 99.9999999% level at the expense of the relationship with her only sibling, the respect of the extended family and celebrating the life of her father.
But hey, at least she probably didn't get the virus. Then again I'd be shocked if anyone from the funeral got it. Masks were worn, distances were maintained and precautions were taken.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
It's thought to be predominately droplet spread, with a component of aerosolization. And a smattering of fomite transmission, plus maybe fecal-oral, too.Doug B said:
The issue is defining the primary mode of transmission in most exposures, as airborne and droplet transmission exist on a continuum. Aerosol-generating procedures like intubation are a no brainer, and we err on the side of caution in healthcare settings, routinely wearing N95 masks if PPE is available. But for typical risk individuals who aren't partaking in high risk activities, it's hard to give advice that will satisfy everyone. There probably is some aerosolization with everyday encounters, but it doesn't appear to be enough (outside of super spreader events...still poorly understood) to practice universal aerosol precautions. Close contact with infected individual(s) for extended time periods is thought to occur in the lion's share of transmissions - less than 6 feet for greater than 15 minutes are the somewhat arbitrary cut-offs.
Imo, they should stop focusing on all the transmission terminology, and keep it simple with guidelines for distancing, face covering, cough and hand hygiene. Secondary considerations include adequate ventilation and duration of exposure, but all this stuff has grey areas.
Unfortunately, it's too late to extricate politics from the equation, but clearly there is a lot of non-scientific noise which interferes with a consistent message.
And matuski has made a few good points, but his overall message has been terrible.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
In general, no symptoms and 2+ week after exposure = no need to be tested. This assumes you haven't been exposed to anybody else who's infected in the interim.AndrewClark said:
You mentioned increased risk though - if you are severely immunocompromised (AIDS, transplant recipient, on high dose immune-suppressing meds or chemo) or live with someone who falls in those groups, I'd talk to your doctor about the need for testing.
Doug B
Footballguy
Agreed, but I thought his message was off more because aerosol transmission was locked in as THE #1, #2, and #3 means of transmission. With direct droplet transmission a distant fourth, and with fomites barely mattering. And it seemed also that matuski was invoking medical-level guidance for non-medical situations.
However, if quick exposures to aerosols aren't really a big deal - and if that can be carved in stone with as few hedges as scientifically possible -- then masks for the general public can go away tomorrow. Masks help defeat aerosol transmission. Distancing helps defeat droplets (i.e. close exposure to some else's coughs/sneezes/spittle).
To be fair, masks obviously clamp down on droplet transmissions, too. But if I can start going to restaurants again because I don't have to worry whether any patrons breathing over at the next table are asymptomatic carriers ... that's a big change in personal COVID-19 mitigation strategy.
Doug B
Footballguy
I mean ... in a naive pre-COVID population, how often are we non-medical really breathing in or ingesting other people's droplets anyway? Big droplets, I mean -- the ones that are said to fall to the ground within a few feet. I guess an uncovered sneeze in an elevator or something. But do we really hang out in other people's "cough zones" all that much?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
It is hard to seperate the benefits of general masking for something like individual shoppers vs employees as an example even in a world where we can say conclusively quick aerosol is no big deal.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
If there is any way we could start a social media rumor that sandboxes at daycare facilities are covid superspreaders I would be very grateful.
#mycarisabeach
#mycarisabeach
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Don Hutson
Footballguy
Anytime I go to a bar in Wisconsin I feel people's spit shrapnel hitting my face. It's super annoying. But in a loud atmosphere, it is inevitable with drunk people. But I wonder if there are droplets that are big enough to carry a sizable viral load but still small enough that you don't feel it physically hitting you? So it wouldn't have to be someone coughing or sneezing, just someone talking normally but face-to-face within 2-3 feet?
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
Interestingly, in CNN's current headline article on the U.S. reaching 200,000 deaths, they state this:
"Already, Covid-19 has killed more people in the US than Americans killed in battle during the five most recent wars combined: the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Iraq War, the War in Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf War.
The loss of life is like suffering the effects of 109 Hurricane Katrinas. Or enduring the 9/11 attacks every day for 66 days."
The war comparison is actually the subheading on their current lead. Just sayin'.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I don’t think it’s that simple, but I also don’t recall anyone saying aerosols are the primary mode of transmission. And certainly not fleeting exposures.
Masks have multiple benefits, and we have enough epidemiological evidence they work to deny their efficacy, primarily as source control, but also to mitigate personal risk of infection. But distancing would trump mask benefit in many situations, if applied uniformly at all times. Realizing the latter is impractical, a combination of NPI (including cough and hand hygiene) has been deemed the best course of action.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Hospitalizations hit an all time high in WI today. Now unfortunately, as always it seems with covid data, that isnt a pure metric since they did away with the "pending" number and now they are all lumped together.
But the increase from a week ago is pure, which is obviously alarming.
But the increase from a week ago is pure, which is obviously alarming.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Indoor bars are really a tough setting to avoid other people's droplets, let alone the overall accumulation of aerosols. In many of these situations (loud music, crowded, etc.) people end up basically screaming in each other's faces. Amazing how much of a petri dish they are, even pre-COVID.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
"Ethanol kills that stuff. People just arent drinking enough."
/for sure somebody in WI
Doug B
Footballguy
I'm over 20 years removed from going to bars with any frequency. Restaurants, yes, but loud, gotta-scream-to-be-heard bars? Essentially never.
The particulars of one's lifestyle seem to make a difference.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
Wisconsin has a ton of stubborn, you-can't-tell-me-what-to-do types. And they love their bars. I got Covid because of one of those idiots.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Well.... my Brother (40) just tested positive.
My parents were just in town all weekend for his birthday and my niece's baptism. He didn't tell them he was symptomatic (told himself it was just a cold).They live in Sourh Florida.
They also took in a foster child 12 days ago. Kid has been coughing since they got him. Apparently didn't occur to them to get him tested for COVID,
Dad woke up aching and was just coughing on the phone.
If My Brother was in front of me I would lay his ### out right now for being a ####### MORON. Folks are calling around to get tested now.
I'm at the crossroads of disappointed and absolutely irate.
We are collectively far too stupid to beat this.
My parents were just in town all weekend for his birthday and my niece's baptism. He didn't tell them he was symptomatic (told himself it was just a cold).They live in Sourh Florida.
They also took in a foster child 12 days ago. Kid has been coughing since they got him. Apparently didn't occur to them to get him tested for COVID,
Dad woke up aching and was just coughing on the phone.
If My Brother was in front of me I would lay his ### out right now for being a ####### MORON. Folks are calling around to get tested now.
I'm at the crossroads of disappointed and absolutely irate.
We are collectively far too stupid to beat this.
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mr roboto
Footballguy
Don Hutson
Footballguy
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
Sorry to hear. And the last sentence is 100% true and the most frustrating thing of it all. That, the overwhelming selfishness, and the politicizing of it drives me crazy. At this point my faith in Murica has gone down the tubes. All-time low.
As for your brother, what is it you're waffling about? No offense, but are you just not capable of giving him an ### whoopin? I mean, he's put your parent's lives at stake, no? To what degree is up for you to decide, but the fact he was willing to even go there is inexcusable.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yeesh. Per Covid worldometers, over 313,000 new cases today, and 34 countries reporting over 1,000 new cases. I believe that 34 count is a new high. Today's deaths approaching 6,300, with the U.S. back over 1,000 new deaths. In deaths/million, the U.S. trails only Belgium, Spain, and five South American countries.
Harris
Footballguy
New restrictions were just put in place here in Paris. Gyms are closed again, restaurants and bars all close at 10pm now (the next step is complete closure), no gatherings of more than 10 people....We're slowly sliding backwards and the approaching cooler weather won't help.
beer 30
Footballguy
Curious, is COVID a political football there too or are people just stubborn and not adhering to protocol?
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Harris
Footballguy
I would say less so than in the States. There is a lot of spread lately as people return from their summer vacations in August. I would say the feeling here generally is that people respect the virus and mask compliance is good. However, people do also want to get on with their lives and are trying to find the best way to live with it.
I would also say the government response has been good to date. We're no New Zealand but we're also no America. Firm nation-wide rules are in place in most situations and are generally adhered to.
All of that said, stupid people exist everywhere in the world.
Doug B
Footballguy
This is a good article that gives a near-term look at how ongoing vaccine trials should wrap up, what's involved in FDA fast-track approvals, and how the early rounds of the vaccines will be distributed. I write "vaccines" because the author posits that more than one will be approved -- perhaps as many as five.
That's just the opening paragraphs. The article is simultaneously packed with information AND is a short read. Dr. Petri does get into the technical weeds here and there, but it's worth working through that to get an educated view of what's to come in the near term.
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beer 30
Footballguy
On the big rides you were just on, were masks/face coverings mandated? Buddy here just did a trail race last weekend. They had to have face coverings on at the start and at the 2 rest stops, other than that it was up to the individual.
Harris
Footballguy
Nah, everything I was doing was on my own so it was all up to me. I always carried a mask with me though in case I needed to stop and pop in a store or stop at a town restaurant for lunch. The basic rule in most cities in France is that masks are required when you are in the city walking around except when exercising. And once you're outside of a city it's all an individual choice. When watching at the Tour de France it was required (but hard to enforce) to wear a mask when spectating.beer 30 said:
I have had a couple of friends do some running races in small towns in France this summer and they also had to have face coverings at the start and finish and needed to put their masks in pockets while racing. Seems reasonable to me.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Attended a visitation at a church yesterday for the father of one of my son's best friends. Wasn't sure what to expect. As we walked up, lots of people gathered outside, ok no biggie. We walk in, sign the guest book and enter the chapel. There were probably 200-300 people in there, in a not-socially-distanced line wrapped around the room. People of all ages. Several people had masks in their hand, but I saw zero masks being worn. Was a little unsettling to me. My son and I turned around and walked back outside. We are to attend the funeral service today and I am hoping they will be asking people to mask up, but am prepared to be disappointed.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Frustrating. Had a similar experience when we went to check out the youth group at our church (7th grade daughter wanted to go back). 200 kids in a large sanctuary (which is plenty big enough to space out) but all the kids were sitting close together and less than half had masks. And they were singing. Shocked us.
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Insoxicated
Dad (70 - fit) tested positive this morning. Dad tested positive this morning.Aches, head cold, cough, chest tightening starting. O2 @ 97. He was told if it hits 92 to go to the emergency room.
Mom (70 - lung and heart issues) Tested negative for now, but presuming she has it and just isn't far enough along. They are attempting to isolate from each other.
no bueno
mr roboto
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
People have some fantasy they live in they if they know the people then they are safe.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Gave blood a couple days ago. Just saw I'm antibody positive. Not surprised at all.
I'm 99.9% sure I got it very early on in mid March when I had a complete loss of taste and smell unlike anything I've had before. No other symptoms except one day of feeling a little off during that time and just a weird sensation when I would breathe, almost like I could breathe better than usual for whatever reason.
Since then, aside from my normal risk at work, I've neither been ill nor have I been out and about without precautions. It'll be interesting to see if I hear anything else back from the blood bank.
I'm 99.9% sure I got it very early on in mid March when I had a complete loss of taste and smell unlike anything I've had before. No other symptoms except one day of feeling a little off during that time and just a weird sensation when I would breathe, almost like I could breathe better than usual for whatever reason.
Since then, aside from my normal risk at work, I've neither been ill nor have I been out and about without precautions. It'll be interesting to see if I hear anything else back from the blood bank.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Location?
In my neighborhood, lots of people walking around outside with masks on. Just walking their dog, not planning on going anywhere... mask on.
But the concentration of epidemiologists, infectious disease docs, and physicians (mostly residents), and related students, is very high compared to the general population.
DropKick
Footballguy
Small town, rural. People know each other... maybe that makes them too comfortable.
Wife works in a nursing home. Until today they had been COVID free.
CR69
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
CR69
Footballguy
I just can’t believe that we’re going to continue riding this roller coaster for another year. This is going to be a brutal fall and winter.
mr roboto
Footballguy
AndrewClark
Footballguy
Ridiculous. We could have been done with this virus for all intents and purposes. But we're not even close. Just sitting around waiting for a golden parachute in the form of a vaccine.
Heck, I'm a militant mask wearer and quarantine but I even have started being social again
Disclaimer: in no way shape or form is this meant to be a political statement. I promised @Maurile Tremblay I'd stay out of the politics forum and I intend to stick to my word on that.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
A week before we go...thankfully, renting a house and bringing/shopping for items to cook all week. We already had not planned to do more than one night of takeout...now we may even scrap that.
