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James Daulton

Government Response To The Coronavirus

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I've watched the clips, two at ralies, one on the WH lawn. The thing with this president is avoiding responsibility or accountability for anything. That's not my point it just explains what happens. Trump says, there's a crisis, we're dealing with it, and people who say it's more serious than we're saying or who criticize my past policies are hoaxers. The message received is that arguments about the seriousness of it (Trump's point 1) and the policies to address it (Trump's point 2) are fake, false, and so the message on 1 and 2 is lost. The main takeaway is that it's not happening. I'm glad you have clarity on it, I really don't think others do.

And btw about No. 3 - yes, eliminating the NSC chief and staff on pandemic threats, slashing the CDC budget, and being underprepared in material and equipment (hence the emergency 8.3B outlay we just saw) are serious legitimate criticisms. I for one am happy to not dwell on it and move on, but blocking out key facts and details is not a way to handle things. I live in an area where local and fed authorities ignored levee building and preparedness for years. I've been through all this unite vs recrimination crap. The need to unify is real, the desire to ignore failures is dangerous.

I haven't blocked out anything, I never said word one about culpability by POTUS, he has some, you listed valid points to that affect.

I only addressed the constant posting of dis-information, specifically the claim that he called the virus a hoax.  No matter what justification someone tries to tie to the situation, it's a lie and has no place being posted

Edited by Megla

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Not good.

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1235688983603994625?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1235688983603994625&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Ffe39kx%3Fresponsive%3Dtrue%26is_nightmode%3Dfalse

Nurse treating CV patients in California got sick, is in self quarantine and CDC is denying testing because nurse wore protective gear and thus "wouldn't have the coronavirus".

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11 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I've watched the clips, two at ralies, one on the WH lawn. The thing with this president is avoiding responsibility or accountability for anything. That's not my point it just explains what happens. Trump says, there's a crisis, we're dealing with it, and people who say it's more serious than we're saying or who criticize my past policies are hoaxers. The message received is that arguments about the seriousness of it (Trump's point 1) and the policies to address it (Trump's point 2) are fake, false, and so the message on 1 and 2 is lost. The main takeaway is that it's not happening. I'm glad you have clarity on it, I really don't think others do.

And btw about No. 3 - yes, eliminating the NSC chief and staff on pandemic threats, slashing the CDC budget, and being underprepared in material and equipment (hence the emergency 8.3B outlay we just saw) are serious legitimate criticisms. I for one am happy to not dwell on it and move on, but blocking out key facts and details is not a way to handle things. I live in an area where local and fed authorities ignored levee building and preparedness for years. I've been through all this unite vs recrimination crap. The need to unify is real, the desire to ignore failures is dangerous.

Yes except conservatives could make the argument that we can cut the budgets and people involved in these programs and then, when an emergency arises, we can simply allocate funds as needed, and there will be no loss in effectiveness but a savings in overall cost. 

Im not saying this is a good argument but they can certainly offer it.  

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

What Apple Jack wrote last night was just ugly. No I’m not going to quote it. 

We’ve got to find a way to get away from this sentiment. We’ve stopped disagreeing with each other and started demonizing each other. We assume all mistakes on the other side are deliberate. It’s awful. I’m just so sick of it. 

I reported it immediately.  That kind of crap is why Ditkaless Wonders got rightfully suspended.  It is not welcome here.  The hate is just too strong from many on the left.

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8 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

DW didn't make a mistake. It's hard to argue against the fact that the country would be a better place if the Trump family went away, no matter what the circumstances. They are objectively terrible human beings.

Don't

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6 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

I reported it immediately.  That kind of crap is why Ditkaless Wonders got rightfully suspended.  It is not welcome here.  The hate is just too strong from many On the left

Just stop. It’s coming from everywhere. You’re making it worse by pointing fingers. 

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Unfortunately for President Trump, he’s making the same mistakes as Herbert Hoover. Hoover made good decisions that actually, IMO, helped to save the American economy. But at the same time he said a lot of stupid stuff that doomed him personally. Like Trump, he was too cheerful, too optimistic. And instead of calming people down he made them more nervous. 

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1 hour ago, Megla said:

The message was not mixed, it was clear, the politicizing by the Dems is the next hoax

If the message wasn't mixed why are the people on my facebook friends list that are hard core Trump supporters continuing to post charts that show the virus at the bottom of all the other virus (mind you the chart is from January, they never update the numbers...), continuing to post links to "data" showing it's not bad and on and on?  To me this is saying all these people think it's a hoax and no big deal because POTUS says so.  Guess maybe I'm misunderstanding this messaging?

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How can anyone argue we're strong at the borders?  A reporter posted last night that they just returned from Milan, where they were covering the CV outbreak and walked straight off the plane and into the US.  No questions, no temperature swipe, literally nothing.

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1 minute ago, yak651 said:

If the message wasn't mixed why are the people on my facebook friends list that are hard core Trump supporters continuing to post charts that show the virus at the bottom of all the other virus (mind you the chart is from January, they never update the numbers...), continuing to post links to "data" showing it's not bad and on and on?  To me this is saying all these people think it's a hoax and no big deal because POTUS says so.  Guess maybe I'm misunderstanding this messaging?

I can't speak to your facebook friends,sorry

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Saying you hope the President gets it or that "We'd be better off with him dead" is poor form.  As strongly as we all disagree--I would hope that we can agree that wishing the virus and or death on anyone is unacceptable.  And it's a very small percentage of the board that's doing it.  

And it isn't a left or a right issue.  It's just an unacceptable issue.  

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Nothing to worry about!  But he's not going near that ####.

My favorite part is where a White House official said that they didn't want to interfere with the work being done at the CDC, but then Trump basically admits it's because a case of the virus might be there.

Edited by ClownCausedChaos2

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1 hour ago, Summer Wheat said:

I guess I understand but I am not here that often. Do you think about Trump multiple times a day during your day to day life like some do here? If you are getting ready for your day and not online do you think about Trump?  There is one guy here who has over 150 pages just on Trump. That is almost 4000 posts.  That is what I meant as it seems some are obsessed.

To be fair he is the supposed leader of the free world and not some cute singer in a boy band. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Trump is saying a lot of wrong things. But he is doing the right things. I think the latter is more important. 

The presidents primary role is to use the bully pulpit to say the correct things. 

And with everyone arguing that the mortality rate is lower than reported because either the infection rate and/or the exposure rate is much higher than expected is known the entire sentiment makes little sense.   Trump's words are much more important in buying time for the experts to do their thing.  

Edited by Bottomfeeder Sports
After re-reading "expected" wasn't really the correct word for what I meant to say

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33 minutes ago, joffer said:

whew....glad that's over.

Jason, Michael Meyers, Freddy, we all know what happens next. 

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25 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Unfortunately for President Trump, he’s making the same mistakes as Herbert Hoover. Hoover made good decisions that actually, IMO, helped to save the American economy. But at the same time he said a lot of stupid stuff that doomed him personally. Like Trump, he was too cheerful, too optimistic. And instead of calming people down he made them more nervous. 

Same dam mistakes. 

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13 minutes ago, ClownCausedChaos2 said:

Nothing to worry about!  But he's not going near that ####.

My favorite part is where a White House official said that they didn't want to interfere with the work being done at the CDC, but then Trump basically admits it's because a case of the virus might be there.

Being reported now he changed his mind and will visit the CDC. 

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9 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

DW didn't make a mistake. It's hard to argue against the fact that the country would be a better place if the Trump family went away, no matter what the circumstances. They are objectively terrible human beings.

Classy

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We haven't learned anything from the Diamond Princess quarantine apparently, because the US gov't is keeping thousands of people trapped on the Grand Princess.

==

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/cruise-ship-with-thousands-aboard-awaits-test-results-while-coronavirus-continues-spreading-around-the-country/2020/03/05/e32b8786-5f1a-11ea-b29b-9db42f7803a7_story.html

At a hearing on Capitol Hill about the federal response to the novel coronavirus, Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) asked why the passengers on the Grand Princess were being held offshore in a closed environment, where the virus could spread.

“We determined, I thought, that it wasn’t a good idea if there was a positive result on a cruise ship to keep everybody on that cruise ship together,” Hassan told acting deputy secretary of homeland security Ken Cuccinelli, who testified at the hearing. “Now we’re hearing that there is a cruise ship off California, and yet we don’t seem to have a protocol to get those folks off the ship, into quarantine in a way that would minimize the spread of infection.”

Cuccinelli defended the decision, saying there is not enough capacity on land to quarantine large numbers of passengers.

Cuccinelli said that if the Diamond Princess quarantine had been implemented better, the virus would not have spread as widely as it did on the ship. “That was not a successful quarantine situation,” he said. (I hope he is going to own this decision and everything that comes from it then)

Authorities were able to take four people suspected of having the coronavirus off a cruise ship near the coast of New Jersey last month “because it was four people,” Cuccinelli said. “If you start putting zeros on that number [of people] with heavy suspicion they’re positive, you could overwhelm local health-care capacity.”

==

So rather than bring these people into a place that could have proper quarantine protocol, our gov't is going to keep them on a ship with basically NO health-care capacity and hope that it doesn't spread.

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Given that this is the protocol, who in their right mind would get on a cruise ship knowing you could be stuck in a closet of a room for 2+ weeks with food being delivered to you by someone who probably has CV19?

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You want to talk about economic impact, cruise lines are DEAD if the US gov't is going to make any ship with 1 case onboard a floating jail.

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3 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

My understanding is that the idea behind banning large gatherings, cancelling international travel, etc. isn't to stop the spread of the disease.  That's not going to happen and was never a realistic goal.  The idea is to slow down the spread of the disease so that everybody doesn't get sick at once.  If we can spread out the number of cases over time, it puts less strain on hospitals and doesn't blow up our health care apparatus.

In other words, if you graph infections on the y-axis and time on the x-axis, you would strongly prefer a long, flat curve over a brief, spiky curve.  That's what these bans on large gatherings are supposed to accomplish.

Sort of.  You're kind of assuming everyone is going to get sick.  People who stay home often don't get sick and that slows down and eventually stops the spreading.  Or at least limits it, until there is a vaccine.

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55 minutes ago, joffer said:

whew....glad that's over.

Here we go again.

Before I even clicked the link I thought, what he likely said and what a reasonable person would hear was that we stopped new cases coming in from China.

I also thought there would be people in here that would say something childish and irresponsible like "Trump said the virus is over!".  Even though after I clicked the link, used my reading skills and saw that he said these things that directly contradict that: "We have very low confirmed cases", "We're going to see if they (CDC) can turn it around",  "Be calm, it will go away".

I was right twice.

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Very off topic, but how can the guess for the number of flu deaths so far this season be so big? I mean between 20k-52k is a pretty big range. We are talking deaths here. How is it not a bit more specific? 

And those people that died, what was the cause of death listed as then? Just "natural causes" ?

Obviously i understand the estimating for cases since so many people go untreated for it, especially minor cases. 

I can even understand for people in nursing homes at age 85 not getting a bunch of tests done so there is some ambiguity there.

But if a 40 year old dies do we really not know for certain if it was the flu? 

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1 hour ago, joffer said:

it's twitter so who knows, but did Trump just say about the virus: "We closed it down...we stopped it"?

If he did I'm sure it means something completely different that only people who speak Trump understand.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, KPD said:

Given that this is the protocol, who in their right mind would get on a cruise ship knowing you could be stuck in a closet of a room for 2+ weeks with food being delivered to you by someone who probably has CV19?

Ah, college. 

Edited by Sheriff Bart
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30 minutes ago, ClownCausedChaos2 said:

Or a Trump lookalike....

No one could get that hue and that mop right

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I think the federal government should forgive everyone owing income tax this year so we can use the money to buy TP

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26 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Sort of.  You're kind of assuming everyone is going to get sick.  People who stay home often don't get sick and that slows down and eventually stops the spreading.  Or at least limits it, until there is a vaccine.

Everything I read says that we’re a least 18 months away from a vaccine being ready for mass distribution, and that’s at the very earliest. 

It seems to me that it’s untenable to shut off all large gatherings of people for 18 months. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

And in Tony's defense, I think Trump gets briefed on 'here's what the mortality rate means' by experts, then - Step 2: Trump's Brain - then we get the jello we heard on Hannity.

Thanks, I guess.

If speaking clearly with well understood sentences is a requirement of yours for president it looks like you're going to be voting third party in November.

Edited by tonydead
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5 minutes ago, ericttspikes said:

If he did I'm sure it means something completely different that only people who speak Trump understand.

he didn't and once again it means what he said, not what people with an agenda want it to say.

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For the people that mention that the virus will diminish during the summer, that's only helpful here right?  I mean, there are lots of cases in the Southern Hemisphere, won't things just get worse in that half of the world?  And unless we're planning to build a giant wall on the equator, won't the problems in the Southern Hemisphere cause more problems in the Northern hemisphere? 

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Everything I read says that we’re a least 18 months away from a vaccine being ready for mass distribution, and that’s at the very earliest. 

It seems to me that it’s untenable to shut off all large gatherings of people for 18 months. 

Will the people that recover from this need the vaccine?

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

For the people that mention that the virus will diminish during the summer, that's only helpful here right?  I mean, there are lots of cases in the Southern Hemisphere, won't things just get worse in that half of the world?  And unless we're planning to build a giant wall on the equator, won't the problems in the Southern Hemisphere cause more problems in the Northern hemisphere? 

We don’t need the virus to diminish right now. We need it to spread. I wrote this in the other thread and I am dead serious. 

Many many more people need to get the virus and they need to recover from the virus. That will be the only way to determine what the actual mortality and recovery rates are. I personally suspect they are much lower (and higher) than suspected. Once that happens everyone calms down, no more quarantines or cancellation of large gatherings and the economy recovers. 

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

Will the people that recover from this need the vaccine?

That is a great question and to the best of my knowledge nobody has answered. But my bet is yes. I think this is more like the flu than chicken pox. You need to have a flu shot every year and of course you can get the flu over and over. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Yes except conservatives could make the argument that we can cut the budgets and people involved in these programs and then, when an emergency arises, we can simply allocate funds as needed, and there will be no loss in effectiveness but a savings in overall cost. 

Im not saying this is a good argument but they can certainly offer it.  

To be clear, that was Trump's argument. I honestly don't think another Republican (or Democratic) president would have eliminated the NSC pandemic threat director and staff. That's a negligible line item on the budget. That just indicates a thorough ignorance of national security. On the same topic look at who is running DHS - do you know who it is? Why he's Acting, and not only is he Acting Secretary, he's also the Acting Deputy Secretary. - There are probably comps to the situation with Brown at Fema but at least Brown was confirmed. Wolf was clueless that pandemic threat response was even in his portfolio, he had no idea what was going on. That's the problem and frankly I think it starts with the top.

And I'm happy to move past this, it's just this whole 'hoax' pushback effort that makes this discussion necessary.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, timschochet said:

That is a great question and to the best of my knowledge nobody has answered. But my bet is yes. I think this is more like the flu than chicken pox. You need to have a flu shot every year and of course you can get the flu over and over. 

My understanding is that once you've had the virus and recovered you generally can't get it again.  Maybe someone here with more expertise can clarify.

ETA:  DON'T LISTEN TO ME!  THIS APPEARS TO BE WRONG.

Edited by fatguyinalittlecoat

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15 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

My understanding is that once you've had the virus and recovered you generally can't get it again.  Maybe someone here with more expertise can clarify.

This is from an article I posted earlier:

 

“Everyone, by the time they reach adulthood, should have some immunity to some coronavirus,” said Tim Sheahan, a coronavirus researcher at University of North Carolina’s Gillings School of Global Public Health. But because it doesn’t last, older people can get reinfected. The elderly also have a higher death rate from coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS, a pattern 2019-nCoV is following.

“There is some evidence that people can be reinfected with the four coronaviruses and that there is no long-lasting immunity,” Dr. Susan Kline, an infectious disease specialist at of the University of Minnesota. “Like rhinoviruses [which cause the common cold], you could be infected multiple times over your life. You can mount an antibody response, but it wanes, so on subsequent exposure you don’t have protection.” Subsequent infections often produce milder illness, however.

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14 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:
33 minutes ago, timschochet said:

That is a great question and to the best of my knowledge nobody has answered. But my bet is yes. I think this is more like the flu than chicken pox. You need to have a flu shot every year and of course you can get the flu over and over. 

My understanding is that once you've had the virus and recovered you generally can't get it again.  Maybe someone here with more expertise can clarify.

I get that we are in an time of chaos and information is more than we can consume correctly and responsibly, but I thought I had read of several instances where people were getting it a second time  :oldunsure: 

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

This is from an article I posted earlier:

 

“Everyone, by the time they reach adulthood, should have some immunity to some coronavirus,” said Tim Sheahan, a coronavirus researcher at University of North Carolina’s Gillings School of Global Public Health. But because it doesn’t last, older people can get reinfected. The elderly also have a higher death rate from coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS, a pattern 2019-nCoV is following.

“There is some evidence that people can be reinfected with the four coronaviruses and that there is no long-lasting immunity,” Dr. Susan Kline, an infectious disease specialist at of the University of Minnesota. “Like rhinoviruses [which cause the common cold], you could be infected multiple times over your life. You can mount an antibody response, but it wanes, so on subsequent exposure you don’t have protection.” Subsequent infections often produce milder illness, however.

 

Just now, The Commish said:

I get that we are in an time of chaos and information is more than we can consume correctly and responsibly, but I thought I had read of several instances where people were getting it a second time  :oldunsure: 

Thanks, looks like I was wrong, I edited above so nobody is misled.

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39 minutes ago, timschochet said:

That is a great question and to the best of my knowledge nobody has answered. But my bet is yes. I think this is more like the flu than chicken pox. You need to have a flu shot every year and of course you can get the flu over and over. 

I would think not.  This is a single strain of Coronavirus, the same as SARS was.  

The flu tends to change year to year.  We're seeing a Coronavirus epidemic every 5-10 years.  

And we don't know what it's going to be.  So vaccinating against COVID 19 won't protect against COVID 24.  

And it seems like by the time we could manufacture a vaccine, the epidemic dies down.  

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2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Here we go again.

Before I even clicked the link I thought, what he likely said and what a reasonable person would hear was that we stopped new cases coming in from China.

I also thought there would be people in here that would say something childish and irresponsible like "Trump said the virus is over!".  Even though after I clicked the link, used my reading skills and saw that he said these things that directly contradict that: "We have very low confirmed cases", "We're going to see if they (CDC) can turn it around",  "Be calm, it will go away".

I was right twice.

Earlier this week he said we have 15 cases and that’s likely to go down. 

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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

And it seems like by the time we could manufacture a vaccine, the epidemic dies down.

This one is so contagious, that it may not die down the same way as SARS and MERS.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Earlier this week he said we have 15 cases and that’s likely to go down. 

this is not true.  Do you have a link?

Edited by Sneegor
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2 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

this is not true.  Do you have a link?

Yes, it is. It's on the White House's website.

"And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/

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2 hours ago, jm192 said:

I would think not.  This is a single strain of Coronavirus, the same as SARS was.  

The flu tends to change year to year.  We're seeing a Coronavirus epidemic every 5-10 years.  

And we don't know what it's going to be.  So vaccinating against COVID 19 won't protect against COVID 24.  

And it seems like by the time we could manufacture a vaccine, the epidemic dies down.  

There are likely 2 strains already identified.  So mutation is probable and may happen again.

 

The research was done by experts at Peking University in Beijing, Shanghai University and the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

In their study of genes in 103 samples of the coronavirus, which is named SARS-CoV-2 and causes a disease called COVID-19, they revealed they had discovered two distinct versions of it, which they named L and S.

They claimed that around 70 per cent of patients have caught the L strain, which is more aggressive and faster-spreading than S.

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