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James Daulton

Government Response To The Coronavirus

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On 3/12/2020 at 11:37 AM, McBokonon said:

How many times a day do you think Trump asks someone if he can just pay $130,000 to make this all go away?

He has never wanted to deal with this because he is lazy, disinterested in the suffering of others, and incapable of being anything but completely self-absorbed.

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Man if you look at Europe’s numbers they are doing a lot worse than we are even. Read somewhere they are a couple weeks ahead. Hard to see avoiding 100k cases/day. 

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On 7/28/2020 at 5:22 PM, Henry Ford said:
On 7/28/2020 at 5:03 PM, The General said:

It was in Trump's tweet - Stella Imannuel

He only mentioned her because she said something good about hydroxychloroquine. Not sure where Trump sits on her other theories like the world being run by an Illuminati cabal of reptilian humanoids.

Yep. The woman who made the video the removal of which is being decried as censorship by the right wing today, and which caused Don Jr. to be suspended from Twitter for posting it. She also threatened Facebook that Jesus would shut down Facebook’s servers if it doesn’t put her video back up.  Also she believes endometriosis is caused by women having dream sex with demons.  

BTW, this crazy lady will be part of a Trump campaign event in Texas tonight.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dpzna/doctor-who-warned-of-demon-sex-and-touts-covid-conspiracies-is-now-campaigning-for-trump

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47 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Man if you look at Europe’s numbers they are doing a lot worse than we are even. Read somewhere they are a couple weeks ahead. Hard to see avoiding 100k cases/day. 

Not to worry, I have been told that this will all go away once the election is over.  I booked a round-the-world trip beginning November 4th.  Which does bring up a question I've been thinking about:

I wonder if that November 4th date holds for Europe too?  Maybe they should call an election to get this pandemic over with.

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7 minutes ago, Kal El said:

They already took it down, what did it say?

It was video of Trump in March saying we would have a vaccine very soon. 

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11 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

It was video of Trump in March saying we would have a vaccine very soon. 

How dare big tech take this down so fast...the bias is real...

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27 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

It was video of Trump in March saying we would have a vaccine very soon. 

It'll roll out with his healthcare plan, I bet.

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1 hour ago, Kal El said:

They already took it down, what did it say?

 

1 hour ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

It was video of Trump in March saying we would have a vaccine very soon. 

Was like a 2/3min long video of every time he says we are going to have a “vaccine very soon” all the way back to early March.  Feels like literally every week he said it multiple times. So ludicrous.  Some how people still believe him too.  

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4 minutes ago, dkp993 said:
1 hour ago, Kal El said:

They already took it down, what did it say?

 

1 hour ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

It was video of Trump in March saying we would have a vaccine very soon. 

Was like a 2/3min long video of every time he says we are going to have a “vaccine very soon” all the way back to early March.  Feels like literally every week he said it multiple times. So ludicrous.  Some how people still believe him too.  

Trump Jr. said on Fox tonight that the number of COVID deaths is "almost nothing, because we’ve gotten control of this.”

I guess their plan is to just lie right to the faces of their supporters, so that on November 4th they can turn around and complain about how President Biden let COVID get out of control.

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30 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

I guess their plan is to just lie right to the faces of their supporters,

Same as it ever was.

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5 hours ago, Joe Summer said:

Trump Jr. said on Fox tonight that the number of COVID deaths is "almost nothing, because we’ve gotten control of this.”

I guess their plan is to just lie right to the faces of their supporters, so that on November 4th they can turn around and complain about how President Biden let COVID get out of control.

They haven't governed the past 4 years, why start now, right?

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I have it on good authority that this will be gone by Nov 4....don't fall for the fear mongering GB!

As @Joe Bryant has said, we really need a laughcry emoji.

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3 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

We went over 100,000 new cases in a day yesterday. 100,000. In a day.

The criminal incompetence and negligence this has administration has exhibited in handling this crisis is reason enough to vote Trump out of office.

It still so weird to me that so many seem to not be concerned about the virus.  I’m not suggesting don’t live your life and I’m not worried about dying but not knowing the long term ramifications of the virus to our bodies is enough for me to take this serious.

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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

It still so weird to me that so many seem to not be concerned about the virus.  I’m not suggesting don’t live your life and I’m not worried about dying but not knowing the long term ramifications of the virus to our bodies is enough for me to take this serious.

There's that, but also, the massive failure this administration has been at handling this is actually intensifying and prolonging the negative impact. We could have been South Korea, or close to it at least. Instead we're doing absolutely nothing at the Federal level and just letting things get worse. It's truly outrageous.

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2 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

There's that, but also, the massive failure this administration has been at handling this is actually intensifying and prolonging the negative impact. We could have been South Korea, or close to it at least. Instead we're doing absolutely nothing at the Federal level and just letting things get worse. It's truly outrageous.

Well, I disagree we could be S. Korea - we just aren’t wired for that, the country is too large and we allow too much personal freedom to get folks in line the way the Koreans did.  However, I completely agree that Trump has done a horrible job - incompetence at the highest level.

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“You know in Germany,” he told a crowd in Waterford Township, Michigan, “if you have a bad heart and you’re ready to die or if you have cancer and you’re going to be dying soon, and you catch COVID, that happens we mark it down to COVID. You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID. But in Germany and other places, if you have a heart attack or you have cancer, you’re terminally ill, you catch COVID, they say you died of cancer, you died of a heart attack. With us, when in doubt, choose COVID. It’s true, no it’s true. No, they’ll say, Oh it’s terrible what he said, but it’s true. It’s like $2,000 more. So you get more money. This could only happen to us.

Unbelievable.  So Trump is now saying that doctors in the USA make more money when someone dies of COVID-19, as if to say that doctors have a vested interest in seeing people die from it.  I'm going for a bike ride with a physician friend in an hour, I'll get back to you with his reaction.  What galls me even more is that even IF it is true, it demonstrates that our health care system is immeasurably messed up, and what has Trump done to make it better?  People are cheering this?  Come on.

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Trump signed the bills that allocated additional funding to hospitals for covid 19 treatment. I doubt doctors are grifting the way he would as a result, but if they are, it's his fault for not making sure these bills were without loopholes.

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41 minutes ago, Mookie said:

“You know in Germany,” he told a crowd in Waterford Township, Michigan, “if you have a bad heart and you’re ready to die or if you have cancer and you’re going to be dying soon, and you catch COVID, that happens we mark it down to COVID. You know our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID, you know that, right. I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say is, I’m but you know sorry everybody dies of COVID. But in Germany and other places, if you have a heart attack or you have cancer, you’re terminally ill, you catch COVID, they say you died of cancer, you died of a heart attack. With us, when in doubt, choose COVID. It’s true, no it’s true. No, they’ll say, Oh it’s terrible what he said, but it’s true. It’s like $2,000 more. So you get more money. This could only happen to us.

Unbelievable.  So Trump is now saying that doctors in the USA make more money when someone dies of COVID-19, as if to say that doctors have a vested interest in seeing people die from it.  I'm going for a bike ride with a physician friend in an hour, I'll get back to you with his reaction.  What galls me even more is that even IF it is true, it demonstrates that our health care system is immeasurably messed up, and what has Trump done to make it better?  People are cheering this?  Come on.

This has been discussed numerous times in various threads. Hospitals get paid a certain amount if a patient is diagnosed with COVID. The hospitals don't get paid based in what is on the death certificate, but rather what the medical charts say. The hospital gets paid for all covid diagnosis, not just for patients that die of it. 

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3 hours ago, FBG26 said:

This has been discussed numerous times in various threads. Hospitals get paid a certain amount if a patient is diagnosed with COVID. The hospitals don't get paid based in what is on the death certificate, but rather what the medical charts say. The hospital gets paid for all covid diagnosis, not just for patients that die of it. 

So that equates to doctors being paid $2,000 per death?

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27 minutes ago, Mookie said:
3 hours ago, FBG26 said:

This has been discussed numerous times in various threads. Hospitals get paid a certain amount if a patient is diagnosed with COVID. The hospitals don't get paid based in what is on the death certificate, but rather what the medical charts say. The hospital gets paid for all covid diagnosis, not just for patients that die of it. 

So that equates to doctors being paid $2,000 per death?

I don't think that's accurate, but I'm not the best person to explain since I don't understand it 100%. It's my understanding that the claim about hospitals getting paid more for covid cases is related to Medicare reimbursements. Here is a decent summary. Link 

"Medicare — the federal health insurance program for Americans 65 and older, a central at-risk population when it comes to COVID-19 — pays hospitals in part using fixed rates at discharge based off a grouping system known as diagnosis-related groups.

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services has classified COVID-19 cases with existing groups for respiratory infections and inflammations. A CMS spokesperson told us exact payments vary, depending on a patient’s principal diagnosis and severity, as well as treatments and procedures. There are also geographic variations.

An analysis by the Kaiser Family Foundation looked at average Medicare payments for hospital admissions for the existing diagnosis-related groups and noted that the “average Medicare payment for respiratory infections and inflammations with major comorbidities or complications in 2017 … was $13,297. For more severe hospitalizations, we use the average Medicare payment for a respiratory system diagnosis with ventilator support for greater than 96 hours, which was $40,218.”

It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate)"

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England shut down starting Thursday, through December 2.  All pubs, restaurants, non-essential businesses nationwide are closed.

This is a real lockdown, not the kind we've had here. 

"People in England will only be allowed to leave their homes for specific reasons, such as education, work or food shopping."

Government furlough payments extended through November.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-to-enter-month-long-lockdown-from-thursday-pm-announces-12120114

 

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1 minute ago, CletiusMaximus said:

England shut down starting Thursday, through December 2.  All pubs, restaurants, non-essential businesses nationwide are closed.

This is a real lockdown, not the kind we've had here. 

"People in England will only be allowed to leave their homes for specific reasons, such as education, work or food shopping."

Government furlough payments extended through November.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-to-enter-month-long-lockdown-from-thursday-pm-announces-12120114

 

Let's see if their rates differ from ours through the end of the year 

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The Death certificate and "Cause of Death" has NOTHING to do with the DRG.  

CMS/Private insurance companies don't even see the death certificate.  Cause of death in no way affects payment.  

 

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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

Let's see if their rates differ from ours through the end of the year 

I will also be interested to see the comparison, but also realize it will not matter at all for us.   Other countries have already shown us ways that we could have not had the 100s of thousands of deaths we did, but we didn't seem to care then.   I don't think enough has changed to make us do anything like they are - it will just be more in house fighting, "but.. the economy", muh haircuts!, we are different, and the other 100s of excuses we have used in the last 6months to get us where we are today.  

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I will also be interested to see the comparison, but also realize it will not matter at all for us.   Other countries have already shown us ways that we could have not had the 100s of thousands of deaths we did, but we didn't seem to care then.   I don't think enough has changed to make us do anything like they are - it will just be more in house fighting, "but.. the economy", muh haircuts!, we are different, and the other 100s of excuses we have used in the last 6months to get us where we are today.  

Yeah, but I wanna see if lockdowns can really get things under control.  We might see some come January. 

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40 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Yeah, but I wanna see if lockdowns can really get things under control.  We might see some come January. 

Fair point.  I wasn't being too positive there, and should try better to look ahead and hope for a different voice that might take proper measures if it's needed.  

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13 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

Yeah, but I wanna see if lockdowns can really get things under control.  We might see some come January. 

Worst part is, we don't need to lock things down if people would just respect each other, stay the hell away from each other while out and wear a mask.  Throw on top of that the proper amount of testing/tracing and things could be under control (enough to feel comfortable being out and about) within months of catching up.  It's mind boggling how simple yet so difficult this is.

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14 minutes ago, The Commish said:

It's mind boggling how simple yet so difficult this is.

Public health interventions are often like that.  Think flu shots, MMR vaccines, etc. 

 People are lazy and distrustful of outsiders telling them what to do.  Public trust in experts and science has been under attack for a long time, but it's gotten really bad during this crisis. 

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34 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Public health interventions are often like that.  Think flu shots, MMR vaccines, etc. 

 People are lazy and distrustful of outsiders telling them what to do.  Public trust in experts and science has been under attack for a long time, but it's gotten really bad during this crisis. administration. 

What I edited is what I think is a big part of why I think Trump as POTUS is dangerous.  

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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

Public health interventions are often like that.  Think flu shots, MMR vaccines, etc. 

 People are lazy and distrustful of outsiders telling them what to do.  Public trust in experts and science has been under attack for a long time, but it's gotten really bad during this crisis. 

Of course there is always a subset of the general public that fit this category.  At the same time, there is no question in my mind that with proper information, messaging and advertising, that subset could be significantly smaller than it is today.

Edited by The Commish

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47 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

What I edited is what I think is a big part of why I think Trump as POTUS is dangerous.  

Anybody that tells you that they are all knowing and that you can't trust anyone but them, is dangerous. 

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53 minutes ago, squistion said:

:(

The crowd at a Trump rally in Florida breaks out in a ‘Fire Fauci’ chant, to which the President replies: 'Let me wait until a little bit after the election'

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1323131892078727168

This is probably the first time I actually believe a statement from Trump.

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On 10/26/2020 at 1:35 PM, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

Just got an email that my kid's school bus driver has Covid. :(

It has been a week and he has seemed fine.  He has been really scared so obviously so relieved he didn't have any symptoms. 

School just called, the kid that sits next to him on the bus tested Saturday and came back positive today. So now the whole family is quarantining again.  This is the worst. :(

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On 10/31/2020 at 12:42 PM, Gr00vus said:

Trump signed the bills that allocated additional funding to hospitals for covid 19 treatment. I doubt doctors are grifting the way he would as a result, but if they are, it's his fault for not making sure these bills were without loopholes.

DO you have much experience with the American Health care system? It is like this EVERYWHERE across the board. Every single week of my life, I hear multiple stories of how patients gets categorized a certain way because "its billable vs. not" or "its more billable (more money) vs. not" or, even worse, how people can't get treated or get dismissed earlier than they should because the system is set up to pay for this but not that or it cuts people off when they clearly shouldn't be. 

The American health system is built on a foundation of corruption and greed and that's the nicest thing that can be said.  

Not to go down that rabbit hole but this is nothing to be pinned on one person or one administration. It has been going this way for a very long time. 

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3 minutes ago, Shutout said:

DO you have much experience with the American Health care system? It is like this EVERYWHERE across the board. Every single week of my life, I hear multiple stories of how patients gets categorized a certain way because "its billable vs. not" or "its more billable (more money) vs. not" or, even worse, how people can't get treated or get dismissed earlier than they should because the system is set up to pay for this but not that or it cuts people off when they clearly shouldn't be. 

The American health system is built on a foundation of corruption and greed and that's the nicest thing that can be said.  

Not to go down that rabbit hole but this is nothing to be pinned on one person or one administration. It has been going this way for a very long time. 

This discussion is specific to campaign claims Trump is making about Covid 19 payments. He authorized the money, it was his responsibility to prevent this kind of abuse from happening via a bill he signed. Beyond that, I haven't seen any supporting evidence to back up his campaign talking point on this anyway.

If you want to have a discussion about general corruption and greed in the healthcare system, there's at least one thread for that in this forum.

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6 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

This discussion is specific to campaign claims Trump is making about Covid 19 payments. He authorized the money, it was his responsibility to prevent this kind of abuse from happening via a bill he signed. Beyond that, I haven't seen any supporting evidence to back up his campaign talking point on this anyway.

If you want to have a discussion about general corruption and greed in the healthcare system, there's at least one thread for that in this forum.

No discussion to be had. Sounds like you are aware this isn't a "blame one guy" thing, although that is what you are effectively doing. When the president or any number of people who authorize funds for something, they generally do so with a set of guidelines in how to appropriately use the funds but we all know the world has those who will manipulate it to their advantage. 

It is myopic to say because one person authorized it, he literally assumes the entirety of the responsibility of all things that flow from it into totality. That would be saying because you pay for and authorize the purchase of a college tuition for your child and say "use these funds to learn to teach" and  to the institution you say "teach my child", that when that adult child then uses that knowledge to harm someone it is your fault.  

I mean, I guess to a degree most of us can go along with the "head coach is responsible" philosophy and we can fire the HC when the team does poorly but I don't think many of us are naive enough to think it is always truly the answer. 

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8 minutes ago, Shutout said:

No discussion to be had. Sounds like you are aware this isn't a "blame one guy" thing, although that is what you are effectively doing. When the president or any number of people who authorize funds for something, they generally do so with a set of guidelines in how to appropriately use the funds but we all know the world has those who will manipulate it to their advantage. 

It is myopic to say because one person authorized it, he literally assumes the entirety of the responsibility of all things that flow from it into totality. That would be saying because you pay for and authorize the purchase of a college tuition for your child and say "use these funds to learn to teach" and  to the institution you say "teach my child", that when that adult child then uses that knowledge to harm someone it is your fault.  

I mean, I guess to a degree most of us can go along with the "head coach is responsible" philosophy and we can fire the HC when the team does poorly but I don't think many of us are naive enough to think it is always truly the answer. 

He's responsible for making sure the bills he signs don't allow for the kind of abuse he's accusing people of engaging in. That's his job. Complaining about this after the fact is basically holding himself unaccountable and/or admitting he failed in his role in this.

In reality, he's probably lying about the abuse.

Your analogy is bad, by the way. Most analogies are.

 

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14 hours ago, Shutout said:

DO you have much experience with the American Health care system? It is like this EVERYWHERE across the board. Every single week of my life, I hear multiple stories of how patients gets categorized a certain way because "its billable vs. not" or "its more billable (more money) vs. not" or, even worse, how people can't get treated or get dismissed earlier than they should because the system is set up to pay for this but not that or it cuts people off when they clearly shouldn't be. 

The American health system is built on a foundation of corruption and greed and that's the nicest thing that can be said.  

Not to go down that rabbit hole but this is nothing to be pinned on one person or one administration. It has been going this way for a very long time. 

Quite a good argument there for getting rid of the greed aspect of capitalism in healthcare and moving to "socialism-based" healthcare for everyone system. Welcome to the Biden/Harris team.

Edited by apalmer
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Not sure why, but I’m still hearing about this today. 

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On 11/3/2020 at 8:54 AM, apalmer said:

Quite a good argument there for getting rid of the greed aspect of capitalism in healthcare and moving to "socialism-based" healthcare for everyone system. Welcome to the Biden/Harris team.

or...we could actually put forth effort to set rules and enforce them instead of rolling over like a dog and surrendering to what is the fatal flaw of socialism in that Socialism believes it can regulate a system that believes it can make better decisions for people than people can make for themselves. 

We tend not to like that. We tend to value our freedom, especially since socialism has been shown to fail in every attempt that has been made to implement it.Even if you tailor that to "democratic socialism" you need look no further than Venezuela to understand how mandated practices simply don't stand the test of time. 

 All in all, American “socialists” have mislabeled their product. The rank-and-file don’t actually desire true socialism, they are merely modern progressives who have much in common with libertarians—except the part about wanting a larger state.  In fact, we think most of the problems identified by socialists, especially poverty and inequality, are a result of too much government—not too little.

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