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Government Response To The Coronavirus (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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right!
Ilov80s
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This is becoming a popular talking point...
Doctors looking to blame trump for why airborne hasnt been publicized.
Nevermind that the WHO is more airborne denial than anybody and last I checked Trump has no influence there. And of course there are countless doctors that have nothing to do with the cdc that have actively fought against "airborne"
Doctors looking to blame trump for why airborne hasnt been publicized.
Nevermind that the WHO is more airborne denial than anybody and last I checked Trump has no influence there. And of course there are countless doctors that have nothing to do with the cdc that have actively fought against "airborne"
timschochet
Footballguy
Yeah there’s a lot of piling on going on against Trump. He’s being blamed for a lot of stuff that he had no control over, which is completely unfair. Shades of Herbert Hoover.
On the other hand Trump is so far from blameless regarding this crisis that I’m not sure it matters all that much (beyond the need for factual accuracy which is important.) If historians, and the general public, look back upon this time and conclude that Trump made blunder after blunder, often deliberately, which resulted in needless deaths and suffering, that will be the correct conclusion.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm not sure how this is Trump's fault. There's plenty to dump on Trump in this, even if true this is but one piece of paper on a mountain of evidence, but I don't think I'd lay this at his feet even with as bad as messaging has been from this admin.
timschochet
Footballguy
More incompetence: months ago Pfizer tried to get the Trump administration to commit to purchasing additional doses of the vaccine, but the folks in charge of Warp Speed were skeptical and didn’t want to spend the money. Now that the vaccine is proven, Washington is demanding these doses but Pfizer has sold them elsewhere. The result is we won’t get enough doses until June or July.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/us/politics/trump-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/us/politics/trump-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine.amp.html
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I dont care if trump gets blamed for all sorts of policy failures.
But doctors trying to wash their hands of this (pun intended) will just further erode trust in public health. The evidence is available in black and white. We know what they have been saying for months.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/trishgreenhalgh/status/1336185857628319745
Released from Trump’s ideological grip, the CDC now admits the science: the virus is airborne; inhalation is the main mode of transmission; masks are needed
Released from Trump’s ideological grip, the CDC now admits the science: the virus is airborne; inhalation is the main mode of transmission; masks are needed
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
S U P E R S P R E A D E R S
President Trump's lawyer Jenna Ellis has informed associates she has coronavirus, multiple sources tell Axios, stirring West Wing fears after she attended a senior staff Christmas party on Friday.
President Trump's lawyer Jenna Ellis has informed associates she has coronavirus, multiple sources tell Axios, stirring West Wing fears after she attended a senior staff Christmas party on Friday.
tuffnutt
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Oh god is that for real? I haven’t followed the CDC stuff much but they really were saying masks wouldn’t help and it’s not spreading through airborne inhalation recently?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
On the storage for the vaccines - if you own stock in Pfizer, I’d look to sell shortly after they get the approval and before Moderna gets approved. The Pfizer vaccine is only a viable option until more alternatives are available.
The -80 degrees storage is actually the lower end. I think the packaging suggests -80 to -120. But almost as important is that it is only good for 3 in the refrigerator after defrosting. In comparison, Moderna needs to be kept around -20 but is good for 30 days in the fridge. That’s a huge advantage and I believe a lot of the other candidate vaccines are even better than Moderna’s storage. Pfizer’s vaccine will be used for mass vaccination events, dropped off and used within a couple days. Moderna and other vaccines will be the ones that go out to pharmacies and doctors offices.
The -80 degrees storage is actually the lower end. I think the packaging suggests -80 to -120. But almost as important is that it is only good for 3 in the refrigerator after defrosting. In comparison, Moderna needs to be kept around -20 but is good for 30 days in the fridge. That’s a huge advantage and I believe a lot of the other candidate vaccines are even better than Moderna’s storage. Pfizer’s vaccine will be used for mass vaccination events, dropped off and used within a couple days. Moderna and other vaccines will be the ones that go out to pharmacies and doctors offices.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
A senior staff Christmas party in the middle of a pandemic, ignoring CDC guidelines. Brilliant.
Osaurus
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The guys at Pfizer and Moderna who made the decision to decline to be at Trump’s vaccine summit thing today have to be SO thankful they made that call:
Link
Sad that we’re where we are. The summit could have been a great show of leadership and assurance to the country that better days are ahead, and instead became a fear mongering, self-centered, outrageous rant. Sad.
Link
Sad that we’re where we are. The summit could have been a great show of leadership and assurance to the country that better days are ahead, and instead became a fear mongering, self-centered, outrageous rant. Sad.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I don't believe this for a second. If the POTUS and every member of the Senate and House were in lockstep on how to attack this then we would be much better off. This turned partisan and then fingers started pointing. Total dysfunction by all levels of government - they all deserve blame.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This assumes they would be in lockstep toward the right goal. Odds of that are .2%. Too many favorites are always catered to.
THIS was never going to be partisan. Recall after Trump closed off China travel, Pelosi & Biden called it xenophobic. NOW, Pelosi admits she will approve Covid Relief bill because there's a new president (and Bernie confirms it). THAT is disgusting
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Actually, I don't recall that at all. China travel was never "closed off".... it was closed off to Chinese people. What do you think the definition of xenophobic is?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
He actually called Trump Xenophobic several times. I myself couldn't recall each of them. From PolitiFact:
The former vice president did accuse Trump of "xenophobia" in an Iowa campaign speech the same day, Jan. 31, that Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar announced the administration's travel restrictions on people who were in China 14 days prior to their attempted entry into the U.S.
Biden said: "This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, and fear-mongering to lead the way instead of science."
Rich Conway
Footballguy
They did call not the "Chinese travel ban" xenophobic, they called Trump's 4-year record xenophobic. In truth, his record is xenophobic, as was that specific policy.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Well, yeah - that was my point and why I’m blaming all of them. To me, this was similar to war time or 9/11 - we all needed to be working towards a common goal. These politicians ultimately showed that for most of them partisan politics was more important than American lives. We can’t even pass a relief bill now, 9 months in and during our worst outbreak. Screw all of them.
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s gotten worse since this post. Mnuchin sent a proposal which cuts unemployed relief down to almost zero which to Democrats is a non-starter.caustic said:
The evidence seems to suggest that the Republican leadership don’t really want a deal; what they want is to be able to argue they tried. That’s my impression anyhow.
CR69
Footballguy
That's been their approach this whole time. Only corporations and the rich deserve help apparently.
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Personally think both sides are playing everybody. Neither really want a deal and both are in lock step. They continually add things they know the other side will not agree to and get just close enough to argue that they are trying.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Well yeah. Hard to sabotage the new president with a robust deal that helps Americans.
You can argue that this is hyperbolic and cynical all you want but I would give you the entire Obama administration as evidence of McConnell's bad faith. I would say the burden is on him to show some honest good faith.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m happy to do that too. I would have no trouble believing it; in fact I’ve been inclined to do so.
But the actual evidence that is out there doesn’t show that. From everything I’m seeing and reading, the Republicans are the ones who appear to be the obstructionists, not both sides. If somebody has information that contradicts this please present it.
BroadwayG
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Regarding this: I understand the Republican argument that we don’t want to turn this into lawsuit city where trial lawyers use Covid as a means to sue any big business- I get that.
On the other hand, if a company of any side deliberately ignored public health safety regulations and forced its employees to be unsafe so that some got sick and died, there ought to be means to address this.
It’s a complicated issue IMO; there needs to be a way to reach a compromise.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Isn't the compromise to allow cases to be brought and tried? Guaranteed there will be nuisance lawsuits brought, but the legal system is what is supposed to handle these things.
timschochet
Footballguy
Corporations would argue that the threats of such lawsuits, especially the nuisance ones, would paralyze them and would be used as a form of extortion by the trial lawyers. I’m not saying I agree with this argument, but history does suggest there is at least some merit to it.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Understood. There's only so much you can do, but a blanket denial of due process doesn't seem to be a good approach. In the end the corporations are much better able to handle the possible risk than individuals, for reasons you've mentioned.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
one of the exceptions to the safe hardbor...
in engaging in the businesses, services, activities, or accommodations, the individual or entity was not making reasonable efforts in light of all the circumstances to comply with the applicable government standards and guidance in effect at the time of the actual, alleged, feared, or potential for exposure to coronavirus;
To give you an idea of how this could affect some real world litigation...
Person A wants to wear a mask to Work on March 26th. Employer says no. Person A has symptoms for covid April 3rd and gets tested. He is positive.
Sues and says he got it because the employer wouldnt let him wear masks. Suit rejected Since mask guidance didn't change until after he would have caught it.
If same accusation is made May 1st that would be considered unreasonable under then current recommendations and suit could proceed.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
There is also language in there about businesses that have posted covid policies and are being negligent in enforcing them. Several other things as well.
Some of the language I am not sure I fully understand, but there might even be the ability for people to sue strictly for lost wages even if it wasnt considered to be negligence or misconduct.
Some of the language I am not sure I fully understand, but there might even be the ability for people to sue strictly for lost wages even if it wasnt considered to be negligence or misconduct.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
If all this is true I’m not sure what the function of the safe harbor actually is. A case would need to be litigated until the fact finder determined whether the defendant’s actions were reasonable. That’s exactly what what would happen in the absence of any liability protection law.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
This is bizarre and untrue. It also doesn't counter the point the original poster made. It confirms it. This is an example of arguing just for the sake of arguing. Not blocking you or Sea Duck, but also not wasting any more time on you two.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
That case is basically an actual case happening right now. Under the shield it wouldnt be. So it would be that purpose.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'm not sure which item you consider untrue. It's absolutely not arguing for the sake of arguing. It's an attempt at countering misinformation being pushed by Trump supporters.
Trump did NOT ban travel from China at any point. That is a fact. His policy banned certain individuals from traveling here from China. It allowed US citizens to come here from China, but not Chinese citizens (as if the virus respects nationality). That is a fact. That policy is xenophobic. That last is my own opinion, but seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion.
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