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Government Response To The Coronavirus (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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Osaurus
Footballguy
Beaches in the Tampa area finally closing on Monday. Spring Breakers are partying down here from many northern states.
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msommer
Footballguy
And watch the numbers SOAR
If you test them.
Or you can do like Austria and just ignore it for a month or so
ren hoek
Footballguy
McDonald’s is claiming that not providing 2 weeks’ sick leave for its 517k employees is about protecting the financials of their franchisees. Currently they are only covering “potentially diagnosed employees”- while pushing back against sick leave for the undiagnosed. Why can’t the corporate office cover the cost?
The end result will be that afflicted workers are forced to slog through because many of them don’t have the means to get tested, or the financial wherewithal to afford time off, and spread the virus to coworkers/customers.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Osaurus
Footballguy
Nobody has done a better job controlling their coronavirus outbreak than South Korea and they developed their own test in 1 week.https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1239950146240221184
Dr. Deborah Birx says they looked for "high quality" solutions and claims that you'll learn over time that other tests used in other countries around the world "were not of the same quality, resulting in false positives and potentially false negatives
I don't think that statement is factual.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The bill called for reimbursing franchisees with end of year tax credits. Mcdonalds pushed back on that and wanted it to be immediate instead.
They never lobbied to eliminate the sick pay provision in the bill.
Why shouldnt they lobby to get a faster reimbursement for their franchisees? That is a pretty silly point of contention and you're creating an imaginary result.
The negotiations would never go like this...
Congress: we are going to force you to give sick leave and we are going to pay you back at the end of the year.
Mcdonalds: we cant wait that long. We want to be paid back right away.
Congress: oh yeah? Unacceptable. We just wont require sick leave now!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-washington-failed-to-build-a-robust-coronavirus-testing-system-11584552147
Ok we can deal with this in November, but the question is what do we do now?
Ok we can deal with this in November, but the question is what do we do now?
The Commish
Footballguy
Agree that panic and overreaction aren't a good thing at this point. But articulating current state of where we're at isn't panic and overreaction. It's the opposite.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
timschochet
Footballguy
This is the sort of incompetent response I meant. Why are they waiting until this coming Monday? That’s 4 more days of huge crowds at the beach. Why did the governor of Florida leave this up to the locals to decide? And more importantly, why is Trump leaving this up to the states to decide?
People are going to die because President Trump is behaving incompetently. This is not an overstatement. It is is not an overreaction. It’s a fact that should be clear to anyone paying attention.
the moops
Footballguy
The isssue is that of course they can wait that long. The company is worth like 150 billion dollars
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
They’re selfish because the authorities are allowing them to be selfish.
And Trump is responsible. He could have said a week ago, or yesterday, “the beaches are closed. Gatherings of more than a few people are prohibited in the United States.”
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Yep. Kind of the American way in some aspects. Many people have the attitude that being an American means I can do whatever the hell I want and screw the rest.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
So could the Governor of Florida. Probably wan another weekend's worth of tourist revenue.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
No. They're selfish because they are terrible people. I don't need the government to tell me to socially distance myself right now I'm smart enough to do that for myself, my family, and others. It's incredibly stupid and selfish to go on (or send your kids) vacation, spring break, concerts, amusement parks, or similar for previous several days and upcoming several weeks. B-b-b-b-but Trump
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes. He’s responsible too. His decision to let local authorities decide is itself an abandonment of responsibility, terrible. But it should never have been left up to him.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I agree with you. Not sure why you threw in the Trump part though. He has his own, separate responsibility in all of this.
timschochet
Footballguy
This post suggests that you don’t understand the purpose of government in an emergency. You are a responsible citizen; you’re not going to do anything stupid. We need strong government in times like these because not everyone will behave like you. If even a small minority decide to behave badly or stupidly, that threatens you and me and all the rest of us who behave well. It can’t be voluntary. Trump’s refusal to accept this is incompetent.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
He's already said don't have gatherings of more than 10 people. Should he put those that don't follow in jail?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
You know these are franchisees right? You know this never had a chance to kill the bill right? You know they literally never advocated to kill the bill right?the moops said:
You know that worth doesnt equal cash on hand right? You know in a crashing market these things are fluid right?
Nevermind, you dont care. You have a narrative in mind. Franchisees should just suck it up and corporate mcdonalds should pay everything out instantly even voicing displeasure means they are terrible people.
The Commish
Footballguy
na.....personal responsibility is all but lost in this country and that has NOTHING to do with Trump specifically. He shouldn't have to even step in. People should understand what's going on and do the right thing. This is where my libertarian streak tends to show itself. It's ultimately up to the individuals when it comes to being selfish (as RW says above). I said at the very beginning of this whole thing that this country is never going to do, on it's own, what it needs to and with politics involved there was a good chance our politicians wouldn't either.timschochet said:
You don't want to hear the "why" here, but it's simply because those people are making those areas a lot of money. That's the only reason this is allowed to go on. That's our society and what drives it. A harsh reality to realize under the circumstances, but it is what it is. The mandate has come down to not have large gathering. It's up to local governments to enforce this. There's plenty to hang on Trump, this isn't part of it IMO.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Yes.Ramblin Wreck said:
The incompetent part is that he is urging this restriction but not imposing it. It needs to be imposed by law. That’s what medical authorities have been calling for for at least 2 weeks now. I think Trump won’t do it because he’s worried about the economic effect and the reaction of his base. That’s malfeasance and it’s why, when more people die, he will be responsible.
For what it's worth, he's done pretty well in closing down bars, clubs and cutting back on restaurant traffic. Beaches are by and large controlled by the city or county they're in, and accessible from private property in a lot of places as well. It's super tough to make sure everybody's off the beach with that being a factor.timschochet said:
Secret Recording of Senator Burr from 3 weeks ago
4 minute piece from NPR - including bits from Burr's comments at a private luncheon - seemed to be very aware of the potential severity long before the government was being honest with the public.
4 minute piece from NPR - including bits from Burr's comments at a private luncheon - seemed to be very aware of the potential severity long before the government was being honest with the public.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t even understand this post. This has nothing to do with libertarianism. Trump says we’re at war. I agree with him. When you’re at war you have to impose restrictions on civilians for the safety of the public. That’s the whole of it.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You certainly changed your tune from a week ago. Hmmm wonder why? Anyway I'm out no point arguing with you since you've got it all figured out already.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Shouldn't have to...doesn't mean he shouldn’t step in...actually starts at the mayor level, then governor and then up to Trump.
Because at this point it isn't about personal responsibilities...because its not just their own lives at risk but everyone they come in contact with and where they will take it back to...
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s not tough at all. If the governor goes on the air right now and says, “I’m closing the beaches. Immediately. Anyone who is found on a beach, public or private, is subject to imprisonment.” That will take all of 3 seconds.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Are you saying the government should have stepped in and prevented you from putting your child on an airplane to go to an amusement park? You were railing Jon for his opinions on this and seem to be blaming the government here but your own choices are opposite of what you claim you want.
the moops
Footballguy
We have small buisness owners in this very thread talking about how they are continuing to pay employees at their own expense. Forgive me if I feel no sympathy for corporate McDonalds. And I call complete
on McDonald's supporting this paid sick leave bill. If they could have killed this bill, they woudl have
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t have it figured out. I wish I did. I changed my tune because I was wrong. As I’ve learned more, I’ve realized how wrong I was.
If you think I’m wrong now, explain to me why. If I find your argument compelling I will change my mind again. But you haven’t made a convincing argument so far IMO.
The Commish
Footballguy
no one wants to be the necessary bad guy in this. What they are missing is "bad guy" is a perception not a reality.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
It doesnt matter if they supported it in your opinion. You just have to acknowledge that they couldnt have killed it.
We have small buisness owners in this very thread talking about how they are continuing to pay employees at their own expense. Forgive me if I feel no sympathy for corporate McDonalds. And I call complete
It is a stupid stance to take to be angry with mcdonalds. The net effect of a franchisee having to foot the bill for a year rather than the federal government?
Seriously. Thats what you are tilting at????
timschochet
Footballguy
My understanding is that if the CDC recommends it the President has overriding authority. In any case that’s what’s been reported.
If memory serves, this issue was adjudicated during the Civil War, when Lincoln shut down large gatherings in Maryland.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
His leadership sucks right now, rudderless ship and the governors have to take over, and I'm thankful in Michigan, ours didRamblin Wreck said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
Wishing ours would do more here. Mayor has taken better control of the city than Governor has the state.
timschochet
Footballguy
Your personal snipes at sho nuff and myself don’t add to your argument in any way.
True, but that's so much more for law enforcement to patrol now. It's not a good reason, but it's all I have right now.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't disagree with this at all actually. There are many more people to focus on in this before we even mention Trump as you point out. I believe our declaration of national emergency allows our state government to officially shut down the beaches (if they couldn't do that already....a little hazy on that at the moment...conflicting sources and all that). That should be done and those breaking the law should be put in jail. That's all local...
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