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My son Peter (1 Viewer)

fatguyinalittlecoat said:
2) I think long term the bathroom thing is just going to be a non-issue.  He's gonna look like a man, of course he's going to use a men's bathroom.  You want some dude with a beard going in the women's room?  With that said, I don't know exactly how the bathroom situation works at high school.  As mentioned there are other trans kids there I'm sure there must be some accommodation. 
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You'd think not, but Texas' Lt. Gov. has the IQ of an almond.  This issue is still floating around here.

Laws vary by state/country.

 
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Ilov80s said:
Wasn’t an easy choice since his mom is from Detroit and is a Lions fan and he lives in Chicago but his dad is from Wisconsin so you got to side with dad on the favorite football team.
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2/3 of my kids chose to be with their Mother and are Packer fans. Us Bears fans from Chicago get nothin! ;)

 
There is a kid in my son’s school that we know and he is transitioning also (f—>m). He is a sophomore, so he is in the same age group as your son. (Funny that he also chose Peter to be his new name.) I’m not sure on where he is in track towards the hormone replacement process (assuming he will), since we aren’t all that close to his parents, and that just isn’t the sort of thing you bring up, unless offered by them.

Being generally just south of you, here in NoVA, we are in a fairly liberal community as well, so this has helped greatly, with our school being very open to his transition. We know him because he is in the marching band with my sons. The band has been very accepting, to the point of it seeming like a switch was flipped. One day my wife told me that “so and so” was transitioning and he will now be Peter. Ok, no big deal for me, my older brother is gay and often dresses as “Muffy” (not entirely the same, but in the same neighborhood). But I was pleasantly impressed with the way the kids in the band handled it. The next time I saw them all (I take pictures, so I am near them as they get ready and perform) he was just “Peter.” I am now curious how the band director handled it. I will ask one of my kids.

Best of luck, you both have already leaped the biggest hurdle in being open, and even just the fact that he was comfortable enough to be able talk to you about this is a big deal.

In a way you both are very lucky to live now where your access to information is immense, even the silly group of his here in the FFA. Hopefully Peter has a place like this where he can go and talk and ask questions and get pointed in the right direction for more information. 

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
We had this protest.

And this one.
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Yeah, those are good but what I was envisioning was something more akin to what I would call "civil obedience." 

There are a lot of really stupid things about those bathroom bills, but one especially stupid part is that trans people that can pass as their non-assigned gender have been using those bathrooms forever without any cis people even noticing.  I think it could be eye-opening for people if a bunch of hairy bearded trans guys started very openly using women's bathrooms.  I'm not sure if it would be effective as a persuasive technique but I'd love to see the reaction.  

 
Mr. Ected said:
There is a kid in my son’s school that we know and he is transitioning also (f—>m). He is a sophomore, so he is in the same age group as your son. (Funny that he also chose Peter to be his new name.) I’m not sure on where he is in track towards the hormone replacement process (assuming he will), since we aren’t all that close to his parents, and that just isn’t the sort of thing you bring up, unless offered by them.

Being generally just south of you, here in NoVA, we are in a fairly liberal community as well, so this has helped greatly, with our school being very open to his transition. We know him because he is in the marching band with my sons. The band has been very accepting, to the point of it seeming like a switch was flipped. One day my wife told me that “so and so” was transitioning and he will now be Peter. Ok, no big deal for me, my older brother is gay and often dresses as “Muffy” (not entirely the same, but in the same neighborhood). But I was pleasantly impressed with the way the kids in the band handled it. The next time I saw them all (I take pictures, so I am near them as they get ready and perform) he was just “Peter.” I am now curious how the band director handled it. I will ask one of my kids.

Best of luck, you both have already leaped the biggest hurdle in being open, and even just the fact that he was comfortable enough to be able talk to you about this is a big deal.

In a way you both are very lucky to live now where your access to information is immense, even the silly group of his here in the FFA. Hopefully Peter has a place like this where he can go and talk and ask questions and get pointed in the right direction for more information. 
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Yeah, my Peter has slightly expanded the number of friends he's come out to, and everyone seems to be really supportive and cool so far.  There are definitely exceptions, but I think kids now are WAY more tolerant about gender differences than even 10 or 20 years ago.  As for teachers, Peter told me that the trans kid he knows in the grade below him generally had teachers that were cool and used his chosen name and pronouns, except for one teacher that gave her a hard time and kept using the old name.  Next year Peter will have a few teachers that he has had before for other classes so those teachers may need to adjust somewhat.  I think any teachers that don't already know him will just know him as Peter.  

 
Regarding college residential living, the school my son is attending has a transgender section where housing is assigned without regard to gender. The rest of the residential assignments are by traditional male/female gender. I wonder whether your son would prefer to be assigned in a traditional male wing, as he identifies as a male, or if he would be more comfortable in transgender housing as he identifies as a trans male. 

 
Oh, and this thread was supposed to also be a chronicle of the transition journey so I should probably update on where things stand right now.  Last week we met (virtually) with the gender therapist for the third time.  Based on those three discussions with Peter (and me and my ex-wife), the gender therapist says he is comfortable writing the letter that is required by a mental health professional to begin any sort of medical treatment.  My ex-wife and I have both indicated that we are willing to consent to hormone replacement therapy.  So all of those logistical hurdles are done.

Peter has an appointment this week where they do a complete physical on him to make sure he's healthy enough to take testosterone.  Two weeks after that we have a meeting with the doctors to discuss the results and steps forward.

 
bigbottom said:
Regarding college residential living, the school my son is attending has a transgender section where housing is assigned without regard to gender. The rest of the residential assignments are by traditional male/female gender. I wonder whether your son would prefer to be assigned in a traditional male wing, as he identifies as a male, or if he would be more comfortable in transgender housing as he identifies as a trans male. 
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I'll ask him but I'm almost sure his answer will be that he would prefer to be in a traditional male dorm.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Yeah, those are good but what I was envisioning was something more akin to what I would call "civil obedience." 

There are a lot of really stupid things about those bathroom bills, but one especially stupid part is that trans people that can pass as their non-assigned gender have been using those bathrooms forever without any cis people even noticing.  I think it could be eye-opening for people if a bunch of hairy bearded trans guys started very openly using women's bathrooms.  I'm not sure if it would be effective as a persuasive technique but I'd love to see the reaction.  
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I understood that, but it could endanger those doing it.  Not really worthwhile.  Better to be organised and safe.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
bigbottom said:
Regarding college residential living, the school my son is attending has a transgender section where housing is assigned without regard to gender. The rest of the residential assignments are by traditional male/female gender. I wonder whether your son would prefer to be assigned in a traditional male wing, as he identifies as a male, or if he would be more comfortable in transgender housing as he identifies as a trans male. 
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I'll ask him but I'm almost sure his answer will be that he would prefer to be in a traditional male dorm.
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I just asked Peter about this.  As I expected he said he wouldn't be interested in living somewhere that was specifically for trans people.  He did some college touring with his mom last summer without me, though, and he said that some of the schools had coed housing situations.  He said he thought that would probably be his ideal choice at least freshman year.   I'm not sure how it works as far as being assigned roommates and stuff though.  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I just asked Peter about this.  As I expected he said he wouldn't be interested in living somewhere that was specifically for trans people.  He did some college touring with his mom last summer without me, though, and he said that some of the schools had coed housing situations.  He said he thought that would probably be his ideal choice at least freshman year.   I'm not sure how it works as far as being assigned roommates and stuff though.  
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I don't think it will matter but the time Peter is a freshman in college.  There will only be like 10 colleges left and then an be online with 500k students each.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Wut 
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I believe Z is referencing the current difficulties that many colleges are having in attracting traditional residential students. Many middle of the road private schools anyway, like the one where I was formerly employed.

I'll even go one step further and say that the whole traditional model of college education is winding down except for a wealthy minority.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I believe Z is referencing the current difficulties that many colleges are having in attracting traditional residential students. Many middle of the road private schools anyway, like the one where I was formerly employed.

I'll even go one step further and say that the whole traditional model of college education is winding down except for a wealthy minority.
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OK but Peter is going to college in 2021.

 
Just got a chance to read this thread.  I look forward to reading it moving forward to hopefully learn more about Peter’s journey. This is a topic I am woefully ignorant about  

Fatguy, you’re about as thoughtful and empathetic of a person that we have on these boards, so I’m confident if anyone is going to transition successfully it will be Peter. I’m pleasantly surprised how positive this thread has gone. If you posted the same thing 10 years ago I suspect it would have turned much uglier. This gives me hope for our future.  Our younger generations, as I see it, continually get more accepting of people that don’t fit neatly within cookie cutter societal molds

 
I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, but just wanted to say there are a lot of parents that are not as support of as you.  I have two transgender boys (F-->M) and it can be very rough on them.  They are 16 and 18, both are on T and just in the last few months both had top surgery.  I know many people are against doing some of these things but the level of gender disphoria over many years brought us to these decisions.  Including many years of therapy.

 
Mookie said:
We have some family friends whose son transitioned to a daughter.  One thing that she really struggled with, and it seems petty to many, is improper use of personal pronouns.  I offended her several times, not because I was being cruel or insincere, but because I've camped, coached, shared holidays, and socialized with Derek for 20 years and it's hard for this middle aged man to remember to call her Maxine.  Once she understood there was no malice and that we fully supported her, we were good, but i think part of the transition phase involved being tolerant of others' mistakes, and being willing to answer stupid questions.  

I wish Peter and your family the utmost happiness as you move through this journey, and thanks for sharing your experience.
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This was absolutely true for us.  It's extremely hard to get used to changing after being one way for 12 or 13 years.  My kids would get extremely upset if someone messed up and didn't apologize - of course many times people don't even realize they messed up.  

 
gianmarco said:
First, I read this when you first posted it and it was such a heartwarming post to read.  Your acceptance and love shone through your post and Peter is lucky to have you.  Peter is also undoubtedly the special kid he is because of the role modeling you provided.  Best wishes to both of you moving forward.

From the medical perspective, especially for those that are likely unfamiliar with the process and transgender issues in general, I'll point out a few things.  These decisions, especially a young ages, are not taken lightly.  The care teams that take care of transgender patients who wish to undergo a change are comprised of multiple physicians and ancillary support that work together.  You don't just come in and say I want to change and it just gets done.  It involves countless visits and significant time to make sure it's the right decision.  Research has also shown that the effects of not listening and helping patients change is far more detrimental.  I know the belief for those that aren't familiar with it is that hormones and surgery is extreme, but the reality is that not doing so is actually more extreme for them.  As pointed out already, the overwhelming majority of patients that undergo gender change are completely satisfied and would never want to go back.  It speaks to how real this is even though that's difficult for most of us to comprehend. 

Bottom line is that children that go through this (both younger as well as teens) have experienced and well rounded medical teams that are taking care of them and ensuring it's the right decision at the right time.  There has been lots of research into this and these decisions aren't ever taken lightly.  The evidence shows that, when appropriate, it isn't too early even in younger children if they truly fit criteria to change.
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Well said!  Having gone through this twice I can say that a lot of therapy, Dr appts., etc are important and required before any changes such as hormones or surgeries are done.  We had multiple discussions in therapy around concerns of starting hormones and things that could be irreversible.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I'm not.  The idea that someone would choose to do this for that reason just seems so implausible to me.  

Peter told me he's always felt something was off but that he really started thinking and learning about it only within the last year or two.  
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Exactly.  We had discussions with our kids as far as "push back" (I don't like that term but discussions about how sure they were).  Our younger boy said "It's not a choice."  I don't remember the rest of his words verbatim but it was something like "why would someone choose to do this.  it's not something I'd choose to have to go through".

 
Update:

Peter came out to my parents earlier today (by phone).  They were pretty awesome about it, listened to everything he and I had to say, asked a few questions, told him they loved him.  I thought they would be OK but  I wasn't sure.  My brother is next on the family coming out list, he should be easy.  I'm a little worried about how my ex-wife's parents will handle it but that's out of my hands, I won't be involved in that process at all.  Hopefully they will surprise me and be really cool.  I have no idea when that will happen but presumably it has to happen either before or early on in Peter's hormone treatment because there's no way to hide it after that.  

Peter also came out to a few more friends from school.  I think in a week or two he'll be out to his entire friend group at school.  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Update:

Peter came out to my parents earlier today (by phone).  They were pretty awesome about it, listened to everything he and I had to say, asked a few questions, told him they loved him.  I thought they would be OK but  I wasn't sure.  My brother is next on the family coming out list, he should be easy.  I'm a little worried about how my ex-wife's parents will handle it but that's out of my hands, I won't be involved in that process at all.  Hopefully they will surprise me and be really cool.  I have no idea when that will happen but presumably it has to happen either before or early on in Peter's hormone treatment because there's no way to hide it after that.  

Peter also came out to a few more friends from school.  I think in a week or two he'll be out to his entire friend group at school.  
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I hope this is the case for ever person he shares this with.  Others may have questions or never understand Peter's decision, but as long as they continue to love him it will be okay.  

 
So here's something i was thinking about. This post is written for Peter.

At some point, we all remember our youth differently than when we experienced it. You have already experienced this, and will again. Things that were intolerable at age 5, like quietly watching a full movie, are awesome now. Other things that seemed fun aren't anymore, like playing with baby toys.  We forget about a lot of those things because we literally evolved to not remember them - almost all of our older memories are just memories of memories, not the original memory.  

I actually met you once, briefly, over a decade ago when you lived in Massachusetts. I would be beyond shocked if you remember that. I don't even know if your dad remembers that. Most likely I'm just lost in the sea of adults I met whose names and faces I don't remember. 

Things change again later in life when we can't fully remember being teenagers. I went to my high school reunion and saw people whose names I remember, but I can't remember why. It happens. 

For most of us, there isn't a "bright line" between childhood and adulthood. Graduation, sure, but I turned 18 as a college freshman and I wasn't much more mature then than a year earlier.  You will have a pretty clear dividing line in your life and that might be awesome. 

There are things that may be difficult for you right now as you transition, that change over time. A "girly" picture of you that you don't like.  Maybe 40 year old you feels differently.  Maybe you meet the person of your dreams and they accept you fully and want to know everything about you.  Maybe you just want to remember some of the good things. 

Have you considered

Taking some of your favorite pictures from your childhood as a keepsake for later?

Taking pictures of yourself pre transition specifically to document your life right now?

Making a time capsule with things that seem important to you now, and some of your thoughts as of today?

Try to imagine 40 year old Peter getting a gift and what might make him happy, or wistful, or glad you did the bravest thing you have ever done.  This is your chance to document what you think about that, but also to document who you are as a person today before you make a major change. 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Update:

Peter came out to my parents earlier today (by phone).  They were pretty awesome about it, listened to everything he and I had to say, asked a few questions, told him they loved him.  I thought they would be OK but  I wasn't sure.  My brother is next on the family coming out list, he should be easy.  I'm a little worried about how my ex-wife's parents will handle it but that's out of my hands, I won't be involved in that process at all.  Hopefully they will surprise me and be really cool.  I have no idea when that will happen but presumably it has to happen either before or early on in Peter's hormone treatment because there's no way to hide it after that.  

Peter also came out to a few more friends from school.  I think in a week or two he'll be out to his entire friend group at school.  
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He must stand his ground. My situation with my family is judgemental and I had to get rid of most. Best decision ever,  but I hope for all you it won't come to this. 

 
bostonfred said:
There are things that may be difficult for you right now as you transition, that change over time. A "girly" picture of you that you don't like.  Maybe 40 year old you feels differently.  Maybe you meet the person of your dreams and they accept you fully and want to know everything about you.  Maybe you just want to remember some of the good things. 
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I've been thinking about this, and I would suggest that Peter reconsider banking some eggs.  I know it seems like a girl thing and that he doesn't think it's necessary for him, but later he may have a different perspective on this.  Sperm is relatively easy and cheap to come by (yeah, yeah I hear the snickers), but eggs are very expensive,  Having a choice is way better than not, and there's no need to use them just because they are there. It's just an insurance policy you may never need.

 
@bostonfred - Peter says he will do your homework assignment when he has a chance.

@CurlyNight - I don't think we should assume anything about anyone's reaction and I was probably wrong to express some concern about the way my former in-laws might react.  In any case, Peter is a strong kid, I'm not worried about him failing to stand his ground, I just think it would be very sad if this somehow ruined the relationship between Peter and his grandparents.  They live only a few miles away from us and in pre-pandemic times Peter saw them on a pretty regular basis.

@Mrs. Rannous - No final decisions about anything have been made, but banking eggs is hugely different than banking sperm for a lot of reasons:

Sperm - "Hey, go masturbate in this cup. Then pay us $300 a year to keep your sperm frozen. When you want a baby if you have a female partner with a working reproductive system we'll just shove those bad boys up there when the time is right and she'll deliver a baby that is biologically both of yours."

Eggs - "First get hormones shot into your butt every day for a month, then come into the doctors office for an invasive procedure where we harvest you. Oh yeah, treatment and storage will cost you about $30,000.  When you want a baby if you have a female partner with a working reproductive system we'll just, ummm, wait, how does this work again?  I guess you need to get somebody else's sperm, fertilize your frozen eggs, give your partner a bunch of drugs, stick the embryos in her, and have her carry your child that she isn't even biologically related to."

So yeah, everything is worth discussing.  But there are some significant financial and emotional costs that would be associated with freezing eggs that need to be weighed against the (seemingly unlikely) scenario that those eggs are someday used to make a baby.  Given the fact that Peter has never expressed any interest in having biological children, I'm just doubtful that it's a course of action that makes sense for him.

 
Hey Fatguy, I haven't been on the board much lately but I've posted in the Politics forum a bit that my 16 year old is a M>F trans girl -- We've legally changed her name and she's been on hormones for well over a year at this point. You are doing the right thing and if you ever need to talk, my PMs are always open. 

 
Same as Workhorse - PM me if you need anything.  We've done everything we can for our two transgender boys 16 and 18 yo - name change, gender change on the birth certificate,  hormones and top surgery.  Hormones have been 1 year for the 18 yo and 2 years for the 16 yo.  Both had the top surgery within the last 6 months.

 
Workhorse said:
Hey Fatguy, I haven't been on the board much lately but I've posted in the Politics forum a bit that my 16 year old is a M>F trans girl -- We've legally changed her name and she's been on hormones for well over a year at this point. You are doing the right thing and if you ever need to talk, my PMs are always open. 
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How was the name change process?

 
Briman said:
Same as Workhorse - PM me if you need anything.  We've done everything we can for our two transgender boys 16 and 18 yo - name change, gender change on the birth certificate,  hormones and top surgery.  Hormones have been 1 year for the 18 yo and 2 years for the 16 yo.  Both had the top surgery within the last 6 months.
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How have they reacted to the hormones and surgery? Are they noticeably happier?

 
Briman said:
Yes - very noticeably happier.  Especially Brett - our 18yo.  Ben has additional issues mostly unrelated to being trans that we are working through, but he is very happy with the changes.
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Same with Piper - A huge improvement in overall mood, self-image, confidence, etc...  Like night and day.

As for name change, the process takes a while -- Here in GA, it involved paperwork at the County courthouse, a notice in the paper and a brief court hearing. The more difficult part is getting other things changed: Social Security, school enrollment info, 529s, etc... That's a long slog that we're still working through.

 
Workhorse said:
Same with Piper - A huge improvement in overall mood, self-image, confidence, etc...  Like night and day.

As for name change, the process takes a while -- Here in GA, it involved paperwork at the County courthouse, a notice in the paper and a brief court hearing. The more difficult part is getting other things changed: Social Security, school enrollment info, 529s, etc... That's a long slog that we're still working through.
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This is the same process we went through in NJ on the name changes.  The court hearing was the easiest - they pushed us to the front of the line since both parents were there and there was no contention - and they let us do it for both kids at the same hearing.  We needed the official court document to get everything else changed.  In person for Social Security (wait was long), mailing for birth certificate etc.  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
If you have any questions or comments, even if they feel dumb, feel free to post in here.  I know there's likely to be at least a handful of hurtful posts given the subject matter but that's OK, please just let people post stuff and try not to turn this into some sort of combative thread.  This can be a beautiful thread. 
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GordonGekko said:
But again, 16 is very young to make this decision. And given this generation in question ( typically socially disconnected, staring at a phone at all, can't socialize at all in most cases), maybe doubly so.  If you can delay the benchmark date, I would to be honest.
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Thanks for the kind words GordonGekko.  For reasons I’ve mentioned earlier in the thread, I’m not trying to delay anything, I don’t think that would be in Peter’s best interest.  In fact, right now I’m with Peter at the doctor’s office where he is getting his physical exam, the last hurdle he needs to get through to start testosterone.  I’m excited for him.

 
Oh for anyone looking for updates nothing has happened yet with the physical transition or the name change or anything.  Peter has continued to come out to more and more people.  
 

This past weekend Peter and his sister and I drove up to my parent’s house to have a socially distanced outdoor Father’s Day/ Mom’s birthday.  In addition to my parents, my brother and his wife and two kids were there.  It was the first time any of them had seen him since he came out and everything was really cool.  I wasn’t really concerned but it’s still great to have family acceptance.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Oh for anyone looking for updates nothing has happened yet with the physical transition or the name change or anything.  Peter has continued to come out to more and more people.  
 

This past weekend Peter and his sister and I drove up to my parent’s house to have a socially distanced outdoor Father’s Day/ Mom’s birthday.  In addition to my parents, my brother and his wife and two kids were there.  It was the first time any of them had seen him since he came out and everything was really cool.  I wasn’t really concerned but it’s still great to have family acceptance.
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Awesome.  That's a huge feather in your family's cap to be so loving and accepting.  :thumbup:

 
Greetings,

-I saw this thread a couple weeks back and it awoke my feelings of wanting to share some of what is happening with my own son. 

I can feel the joy and love you have for your son and each other. I think it's incredible of you to share this story with everyone. 

He's lucky to have you as his father, and here is why...when I was working at Whole Foods back in '08, I was asked to help volunteer with a teens LGBTQ group but it was geared for Transgender and suicide prevention. Folks forget I used to run the Firestone in Orlando '94-'96, full blown gay and trans bar until 2AM...but getting back to the teen group, it was astonishing how evil other kids and adults can be. None of those kids had a parent like you 😘

Can I make a request? Just make sure Peter knows that it's wrong to go into a packed movie theater and open up a can of tuna packed in oil. I don't think gender has anything to do with knowing right from wrong when it comes to tuna etiquette 👍 

Cheers!

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Can I make a request? Just make sure Peter knows that it's wrong to go into a packed movie theater and open up a can of tuna packed in oil. I don't think gender has anything to do with knowing right from wrong when it comes to tuna etiquette 👍 

Cheers!
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Thanks MOP.  Peter's a vegetarian so this should not be a problem.  But I'll caution him anyway just in case.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Can I make a request? Just make sure Peter knows that it's wrong to go into a packed movie theater and open up a can of tuna packed in oil. I don't think gender has anything to do with knowing right from wrong when it comes to tuna etiquette 👍 
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So packed in water is okay?  Cool.

 
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For those who have been following along, unless something unexpected happens it looks like Peter will start taking testosterone on Wednesday.  The physical changes are supposed to happen pretty gradually but I guess one of the first noticeable things will be that his voice will change within a few months. 

I'm really interested to watch him become the person that he wants to be.  He's kind of an inspiration for me in a lot of ways.

 
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