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Does seeing this make you upset (OCMD and Lake of the Ozark)

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Just now, belljr said:

But he said they weren't effective, the actual study you linked said they were...did he just not read the study

I linked a different study. The one in the article he cited was only based on 4 subjects. 

I have no idea how a study with 4 subjects with plenty of holes in methodology ever got published. Especially one with such out of left field conclusions. I have my suspicions why, but I have already voiced those enough. If you read the comments on the annals site plenty of doctors that clearly have peer review experience have the same questions. 

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7 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I linked a different study. The one in the article he cited was only based on 4 subjects. 

I have no idea how a study with 4 subjects with plenty of holes in methodology ever got published. Especially one with such out of left field conclusions. I have my suspicions why, but I have already voiced those enough. If you read the comments on the annals site plenty of doctors that clearly have peer review experience have the same questions. 

I didn't even bother with that link... but a study on four people can tell you a lot. four times more than a study of one person... maybe

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13 hours ago, El Floppo said:
13 hours ago, bucksoh said:

In Ohio and the hospital I work for if you have any symptoms of CV,   your counted as having cv.   Same for deaths even though they aren't testing them.   If this is going on here you can bet that it happening a lot.   Said same thing when we were placing CV patients in nursing homes, and also when I said suicides and overdoses have exploded I was laughed at but I have been right.  

So the numbers counted in statistics reflect those cases before March? I didn't know.

I checked again. 3/27 is the start date for the numbers wikipedia is sourcing here. 98,201 as of last posting. will be interesting to see if/how they include those earlier unreported cases.

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It’s upsetting because we’re jeopardizing any economic recovery before it even gets started. And it seems like non-essential activities that will be the cause. 30 million on unemployment? What happens if we need to lock it down again? Complete economic collapse? Wasn’t the point of re-opening to save the economy? Upsetting because of how irresponsible it is. 

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14 hours ago, TLEF316 said:

People are idiots and I knew a HUGE chunk of them would take a "cautious reopening" (with masks strongly suggested and social distancing still stressed) as the green light to do whatever they wanted. Woo HOO summer!!!

Sadly, yes.  Up through now most people here have been wearing masks, etc.  Went with the wife yesterday to HD and there was hardly a mask in sight.  It's like we hit Memorial Day and we've turned over a new leaf.  

All I kept thinking was that 80% of these people are completely self-absorbed, clueless idiots.  Well, I was thinking it in a way that Joe would toss me for a few months if repeated.

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5 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

It’s upsetting because we’re jeopardizing any economic recovery before it even gets started. And it seems like non-essential activities that will be the cause. 30 million on unemployment? What happens if we need to lock it down again? Complete economic collapse? Wasn’t the point of re-opening to save the economy? Upsetting because of how irresponsible it is. 

Some people have to learn the hard way. I wish that this wouldn't happen, and as I said before, I pray I'm wrong, but I think this is still going to get worse before it gets better. We're about to hit 100k dead in the US alone with no end in sight, yet people want to go outside after maybe 2-3 months in quarantine. That's not helping things, because while young people are thus far apparently not getting hit as hard, the older crowd they might interact with is, and this virus has mutated at least once already into a more contagious form. What's stopping it from mutating again into a deadlier disease? I'll tell you what would slow that process down. Doing isolation right for once. Yes, it's likely, and yes the economy isn't going to like it, but I'd rather be able to make money later than needing to go outside now, which I do already.

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The biggest thing that upsets me is that people pushing to reopen to save the economy can’t just do it in a responsible way? A moderate spike is be expected but I think we’re headed to a large spike the way everyone is behaving and that’s going to kill the economic recovery.

After work last night I picked up my wife’s favorite ice cream because she’s really starting to struggle with everything. The employees were wearing masks and had spacing somewhat taped off. Place was packed out the door and of the 50 people waiting, I was the only one wearing a mask (outside a mom and son). They had no seating available and everyone was taking it to go. How hard is it to put a mask on while doing this? You can take off to eat and as soon as you get out of the crowd.

It’s not even the high school and college kids that upset me, it’s the 40 and 50 year olds who should no better but don’t care and just want things to be normal.

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12 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

The biggest thing that upsets me is that people pushing to reopen to save the economy can’t just do it in a responsible way? A moderate spike is be expected but I think we’re headed to a large spike the way everyone is behaving and that’s going to kill the economic recovery.

After work last night I picked up my wife’s favorite ice cream because she’s really starting to struggle with everything. The employees were wearing masks and had spacing somewhat taped off. Place was packed out the door and of the 50 people waiting, I was the only one wearing a mask (outside a mom and son). They had no seating available and everyone was taking it to go. How hard is it to put a mask on while doing this? You can take off to eat and as soon as you get out of the crowd.

It’s not even the high school and college kids that upset me, it’s the 40 and 50 year olds who should no better but don’t care and just want things to be normal.

It's the herd mentality.  As some stop wearing masks, those who were on the fence about it are then less likely to do it as a result, and before you know it, far more people are not wearing them than are.

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1 minute ago, Ghost Rider said:

It's the herd mentality.  As some stop wearing masks, those who were on the fence about it are then less likely to do it as a result, and before you know it, far more people are not wearing them than are.

Yup. My sister is a major trumpie. She was wearing a mask for the last few weeks but then said last night she doesn’t think it does anything. Okey dokey. 

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1 hour ago, El Floppo said:

I didn't even bother with that link... but a study on four people can tell you a lot. four times more than a study of one person... maybe

Well that bold is sure relevant here. Since for plenty of the metrics they discarded one or two of the subjects. 

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Cnn showed clearly how far droplets travel with and without a mask. 6 ft is arbitrary. If the cough or sneeze is strong, it could go 10 ft. Outside the wind can carry it further. Hopefully at least these folks stay away from the vulnerable. 

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They do bother me a bit but I'm past caring and will only be concerned with trying to keep me and my family safe and hope that those that act selfishly dont do too much damage.

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25 minutes ago, Capella said:

Yup. My sister is a major trumpie. She was wearing a mask for the last few weeks but then said last night she doesn’t think it does anything. Okey dokey. 

The amount of otherwise smart people that for some reason think masks don't do anything is jarring.

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15 hours ago, bucksoh said:

Actually educated on the use of masks, and what people are wearing will not stop the spread of CV .  This goes for social distancing also.  The media is saying you're protecting others,.  but most don't wear n95 masks  properly and the rest wear cloth or ineffectual face masks when they have been proven ineffective.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencetimes.com/amp/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htm

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9 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

The amount of otherwise smart people that for some reason think masks don't do anything is jarring.

My sister is pretty dumb, god love her, but I agree. 

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Surprised it’s a dead heat as I post this (48/48).  Maybe most of you have not been to OCMD boardwalk.  

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Posted (edited)

We have special worry with my wife immune-compromised and over 80 parents so, yeah, it can get to me a bit. I’ve been trying to avoid much of it as social media will really amplify things.  I’ve been such a pro-America honk all my life and I completely admit this has rattled this. I really didn’t realize how incapable many Americans were of thinking past their own nose. My grandparents’ America is not this country currently.

Edited by Hugh Jass
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Im not angered by it...but saddened.

I think the thought that they are taking their own risk is misguided.  Because of the possibility of spread to others...the possibility of parties and gatherings like that all over the place...if it leads to big spikes...we "shut down" again or stay "shut down" longer.  

This is aside from relaxing some restrictions and opening more things up...do that...do it safely.  Going to the complete extreme and large gatherings...and just thumbing their noses at being actually responsible is sad to me.

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1 hour ago, Kal El said:

 What's stopping it from mutating again into a deadlier disease?

Nothing.  However, diseases like this tend to mutate into less deadly forms over time. 

 

48 minutes ago, CurlyNight said:

Cnn showed clearly how far droplets travel with and without a mask

What was the delta between the two?

 

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57 minutes ago, jamny said:

They do bother me a bit but I'm past caring and will only be concerned with trying to keep me and my family safe and hope that those that act selfishly dont do too much damage.

Yup.  We have no control over other's actions, so just do what's right for you.  When I first started grocery shopping after they instituted masks and arrows on the floor telling you which way to walk, I almost got into a fight.  Some tool came the wrong way at me, with no mask.  I literally turned my shopping cart sideways and shamed him until he turned around.  He could've kicked the crap out of me.  Today, I still follow the arrows and wear a mask, but have stopped caring about what others are doing.  Can't worry about something you can't control - that just leads to anger.

The only people that upset me now are the ones who make it a point to openly cough on people, and think it's their job to shame those trying to adhere to the rules.

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1 hour ago, TheWinz said:

 

The only people that upset me now are the ones who make it a point to openly cough on people, and think it's their job to shame those trying to adhere to the rules.

Wow, I haven't seen that. That's horrible.

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Have people forgotten the part of the calculus where they can infect other people? Including the healthcare workers that are treating them, if they need it?

The virus doesn’t care how tough you act. And the virus is highly contagious, that’s a fact. No reason to invoke rights into it, the virus doesn’t care about rights. 

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17 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

Have people forgotten the part of the calculus where they can infect other people? Including the healthcare workers that are treating them, if they need it?

The virus doesn’t care how tough you act. And the virus is highly contagious, that’s a fact. No reason to invoke rights into it, the virus doesn’t care about rights. 

This was always my biggest worry about opening up. Not the businesses opening but everything viewing it as an all clear signal.

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4 hours ago, Slapdash said:

The amount of otherwise smart people that for some reason think masks don't do anything is jarring.

Like Fauci? 

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5 hours ago, Sand said:

Nothing.  However, diseases like this tend to mutate into less deadly forms over time. 

Can you unpack this a bit? As I understand things, mutations are random, and only the ones that improve fitness tend to hang around. This doesn’t necessarily correlate with virulence, unless the the virus becomes so deadly it kills off its hosts before it can replicate/spread.

Either way, the vast majority of mutations have no impact on how deadly a virus is.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Can you unpack this a bit? As I understand things, mutations are random, and only the ones that improve fitness tend to hang around. This doesn’t necessarily correlate with virulence, unless the the virus becomes so deadly it kills off its hosts before it can replicate/spread.

Either way, the vast majority of mutations have no impact on how deadly a virus is.

 

Here is a good paper on it.  Just the abstract is enough to catch the gist - your last statement is correct as far as general theory on why a less virulent disease lasts longer.  

Edited by Sand

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11 minutes ago, Sand said:

Here is a good paper on it.  Just the abstract is enough to catch the gist - your last statement is correct as far as general theory on why a less virulent disease lasts longer.  

That’s really interesting, but runs counter to what we’ve seen with seasonal influenza and HIV, and probably other viruses with which we’ve coexisted a while. It also requires a large percentage of potential hosts to be exposed before the less virulent virus wins out. Moreover, a relatively long incubation period with transmissibility during periods of no/minor symptoms tends to mitigate the proposed evolution.

For the immediate future, I’d be more concerned a deadlier virus evolves before the mechanisms described in your link apply. There’s certainly no guarantee that will happen, but I wouldn’t count on SARS-CoV-2 getting less deadly either.

Thanks for the link and prompt reply.

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It upsets me more because of where it is.  Lake of the Ozarks is out in the middle of nowhere.  That means that everyone from KC and St. Louis and such were coming down.  They'll go back and hopefully if there is a spike those systems will be able to handle it.  More concerning is if they spread it around to the locals, there isn't much of a hospital system down there and it takes a long time to get around the lake.

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I truly believe that a majority of people don't understand that wearing a mask and keeping distance protects other people from you, not the other way around.  They don't wear masks and don't social distance because they either don't think they'll catch it, they're willing to risk it themselves, they believe "it's just a cold, I'll be fine", or any other reason where they are only thinking of themself.  An example: 

I (with mask) went into the pharmacy last week, and as I headed for the door another gentleman (no mask) approached, and it was evident we'd both reach the door at the same time.  So I stopped short and waved towards the door to let him go through first and keep distance.  He just laughed and said "what're you scared of me for? You're the one with the mask on!".   

 

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On 5/25/2020 at 12:11 PM, CurlyNight said:

Cnn showed clearly how far droplets travel with and without a mask. 6 ft is arbitrary. If the cough or sneeze is strong, it could go 10 ft. Outside the wind can carry it further. Hopefully at least these folks stay away from the vulnerable. 

Here is a video of masks people are wearing and how ineffectual they really are.  https://youtu.be/pTA5ndbXaFI. As with any flu it helps to wear the right mask,. Which hardly anyone is using.    The flu particles still linger in the air.  Then  watch this video.   https://youtu.be/pZiGJUbxqww.  The more you know.  Learn the people truth!

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2 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

Here is a video of masks people are wearing and how ineffectual they really are.  https://youtu.be/pTA5ndbXaFI. As with any flu it helps to wear the right mask,. Which hardly anyone is using.    The flu particles still linger in the air.  Then  watch this video.   https://youtu.be/pZiGJUbxqww.  The more you know.  Learn the people truth!

Wrong. And covid is not the flu.

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1 minute ago, CurlyNight said:

Wrong. And covid is not the flu.

It clearly is but continue on with your lies!

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2 minutes ago, CurlyNight said:

Wrong. And covid is not the flu.

What's the name for Spanish flu,.  I'm sure that wasn't a flu either🤪🤪🤪!

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On 5/26/2020 at 3:34 PM, wlwiles said:

I truly believe that a majority of people don't understand that wearing a mask and keeping distance protects other people from you, not the other way around.  They don't wear masks and don't social distance because they either don't think they'll catch it, they're willing to risk it themselves, they believe "it's just a cold, I'll be fine", or any other reason where they are only thinking of themself.  An example: 

I (with mask) went into the pharmacy last week, and as I headed for the door another gentleman (no mask) approached, and it was evident we'd both reach the door at the same time.  So I stopped short and waved towards the door to let him go through first and keep distance.  He just laughed and said "what're you scared of me for? You're the one with the mask on!".   

 

That guy sounds like a real moron.

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I wish (like I do in a lot of different areas and subjects) that people would be rational in the approach as things open up.

Totally get that people are itching to return to normal activity, particularly as summer hits. But there has to be some moderation in approach -- still wear masks/maintain social distancing/take things slow.

Instead the pendulum swings way to the other side and you have packed public pools, beaches, establishments not following state guidelines/regulations about still wearing masks, enforcing mask wearing, etc. People are politicizing an issue that should not be politicized and that compounds both the situation and the rationality of approach.

Everything does not need to be so binary. We have zero idea if and how large a secondary spike might be. There is no harm in slowing all of our collective roll for the collective good.

Instead, I am worried that irrational behavior will not simply extend but worsen the situation further rather than what's intended -- let's open slowly, see the impact, and take it from there.

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It's nice that the people who have been booted out of the main thread are just congregating here now. 

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