pantherclub
Footballguy
Yep, theaters were dying before this. Once the big companies go under why in the hell would facebook, disney etc take them over? They are smarter than that
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Say goodbye to Hollywood (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter tommyboy
- Start date
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Box office draw year by year for #1, #5, and #20 films
2019
#1 850MM
#5 420MM
#20 136MM
2018
#1 700MM
#5 318MM
#20 156MM
2016
#1 652MM
#2 356MM
#20 155MM
2013
#1 406MM
#5 268MM
#20 133MM
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
And at home if the people watching with you are talking too much you can send them to their rooms.
pantherclub
Footballguy
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/movie-exhibition-distribution-future-1202152832/
"The 2019 box office is down nine percent from last year, and soon the theaters’ Netflix battle will be joined by Disney+, Apple+, WarnerMedia, and more."
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I guess the crux of my hesitation for this model is what is bolded here. I am not confident in that, or probably more accurately, I am not fully confident in the movies that I would want to survive doing so. I could be wrong, though. What I am more talking about is the movies that 80s talked about above that are already getting squeezed out of theaters unless you live in a bigger city. It's already to the point that about all I get to see in Madison on a big screen is the typical blockbuster fare. My beef is is that the streaming original movies mostly to me feel like quantity over quality as the services race to claim they have the most original content to entice subscribers. I can't think of more than a few like Wedding Story that actually blew me away, but admit that i am probably being overly grumpy this am and the fact that movies like that are getting buzz might have more services leaning to those types of movies as well.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Netflix literally just released one a week or so ago. The Trial of the Chicago 7. I think when the dust settles from covid the streaming services, movie studios and movie theater companies are going to look and operate drastically different
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Streaming has some major movies this year. Spike Lee movie, Charlie Kaufman movie, Menk is coming soon from Fincher Palm Springs was excellent. Some good movies all considered. The Irishman last year had a little issue with the CGI but it was an instant classic.
shader
Footballguy
I have a 75 inch Sony 4k TV and as awesome as my new TV is, it doesn't come close to the experience of seeing a blockbuster film in a crowded theater. But I do have friends that think as you do.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Streaming services are competition for the customer's entertainment dollar but the overlap with movie theaters isn't 1 to 1. Customers stream to get entertainment at home, which competes with other at home options like cable. They go to theaters to get entertainment outside of the home, to get a break from their kids, for a date, for the "theater experience", etc. Where they overlap is when a new movie comes out, and studios charge so much for first run movies (especially the premium ones) that many customers choose to go to the movies instead of spending 25 bucks to watch the same thing at home.
The places that movies are getting hurt:
A large cross section of the people who like to see new movies when they first come out, also prefers the theater experience. Some don't, and are willing to pay a premium to watch them at home early.
Another gap is that a lot of us don't care when we see movies, and will wait until they come out on a streaming service we've already paid for. That's more true for low end movies, dramas and comedies. Horror movies around Halloween, kids movies around school vacations, blockbusters and other segments still seem to do well in the theaters.
There's also a gap with viewers choosing home content over theaters. Netflix and chill is replacing some date night revenue, and watching full seasons of shows has replaced movies as the "top" form of entertainment. If you think about it, the Marvel universe, which are the highest grossing franchise in history, is really more comparable to a show with multiple seasons, than a bunch of individual movies.
Which brings us to the last point. There are only so many good creative people and actors and content creators and producers and investor dollars and so on. The top talent is now getting split between the traditional moviea and TV shows and the streaming services, who want multi season shows which keep people coming back instead of two hour movies that you might watch once or twice. TV is filling air time with cheap reality TV content, whether it's who is the best singer, who is the funniest comedian, who is going to ####, which house do you like, which chef did the best job, etc etc. They don't need to create scripted content, they just need good quality production and marketing. The streaming services are investing huge money in the top shows, which draws the best scripts and creative talent.
That leaves movie creators focused on things that work better in theaters or short formats. CGI and expensive actors are already expensive for 120 minutes of content, let alone a 500 minute season. Marketing dollars are expensive for something you only consume once, for about ten bucks, like a movie. They're barely worth it for small budget niche films.
That's why we see so much of the same #### in the theaters. It's cheaper to do marketing for the next mcu movie, because so many people will watch it without ever seeing an ad. It's easy to market typecast actors we know, like another Jennifer Aniston romantic comedy, even now when she's 51. Its cheaper to market sequels than to educate consumers on a new plot and characters.
So you and icon are both right - top end movies are doing great, and overall theater revenue is down. And overall content creation is up. And theaters will bounce back.
timschochet
Footballguy
So- a couple landlords I know with movie theaters are panicking, and who can blame them? That’s a lot of square footage, a whole lot of rent, and it’s not like you’re going to replace them with other tenants.
Personally however, I’m a bit more optimistic. Eventually the pandemic is going to end. Back in the 1950s, movie theaters lost a ton of revenue due to television and it was predicted that it was a dying industry. That turned out to be false because of the fact that people like to congregate together. They will again as well. It’s just going to take a few years. But IMO by 2025 movie theaters will be as crowded as ever.
In fact, I think if someone had the money right now they could make a fortune buying shopping centers with movie theaters in them at a heavy discount. Wish I had that kind of cash.
Personally however, I’m a bit more optimistic. Eventually the pandemic is going to end. Back in the 1950s, movie theaters lost a ton of revenue due to television and it was predicted that it was a dying industry. That turned out to be false because of the fact that people like to congregate together. They will again as well. It’s just going to take a few years. But IMO by 2025 movie theaters will be as crowded as ever.
In fact, I think if someone had the money right now they could make a fortune buying shopping centers with movie theaters in them at a heavy discount. Wish I had that kind of cash.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The theaters went through this same thing in the 50s-60swhen TVs became widely owned. That’s where the huge technicolor, metrocolor, 3D and cinerama epics like Ben Hur, How the West Was Won and This Is Cinerama (which played for a redord 115 straight weeks in LA) came from. The idea was to beat TV, you needed bigger, longer and more colorful. Movie attendance has been declining since the 1930a when 65% of people went to the movies at least once a week.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
OK - I promise to try harder then and not be the people that I grumble about in other threads. I will admit my anti-NF bias, as most of the time I bother going there it's feels more like another Adam Sandler movie or a crappy looking action movie that's being touted. I do have the Kaufman movie in my queue and I will check out Palm Springs (haven't used Hulu in awhile either). .
I am probably just being a grump. Besides these, it looks list most of A24 movies are on Prime, and there are streaming options like Criterion, mubi, Kanopy that still cater to non-blockbusters, so there's that.
culdeus
Footballguy
Surely this is expected. Explosion porn movies dominate now. I would expect there to be a flight to the top of those.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I enjoy going to the movies. Love film festivals, there are several here I try to go to every year: Tribeca FF, NYC International Children’s FF (never miss the shorts!) and NYC Asian FF.
Looking forward to continuing those family traditions in 2021.
Looking forward to continuing those family traditions in 2021.
tommyboy
Footballguy
how many big movies have there been the last few years? Star Wars (down) & Avengers come to mind quickly. I'm sure there's a few more i can't recall right off the top of my head that were BIG movies. However that list of BIG movies per year has been shrinking the last few years. Trend hasn't been good.
it cost $6 to 12 Million to build a multiplex, you need at least a couple hundred people per day, with fantastic concessions preferably alcohol to pay the nut on that loan and your staff and the movie fees to hollywood (for a blockbuster, studio takes 60-70% of ticket price). You get some other revenue from local ads and/or national ads, private events, some areas might even have a school district Matinee program. But most of your money is coming from concessions.
now we get covid - it potentially will ruin the theater business. I guess its possible some one will buy up these properties for pennies on the dollar, however given the change in the way Hollywood distributes movies (a process that was already changing before covid), the cost of those movies to the theater owner and the lack of consistently good product , as a business man I'd be very leary about owning a theater thinking i was going to make it big showing movies. I might buy it as real estate and tear the building down. I might buy it and convert it to something else, but I wouldn't put a big investment into "the movie business" given the factors already in place: plus covid.
I'm in the movie business. I'm sitting in my office on the 2nd floor of a movie theater typing away. I'm not just guessing here. I truly believe we are THIS close to losing a part of americana. We will know in 6 months time. Crossing my fingers both for selfish reasons (income) and me and my family love movies
by the way if you have Amazon prime, watch Infinity Chamber ...like tonight.
it cost $6 to 12 Million to build a multiplex, you need at least a couple hundred people per day, with fantastic concessions preferably alcohol to pay the nut on that loan and your staff and the movie fees to hollywood (for a blockbuster, studio takes 60-70% of ticket price). You get some other revenue from local ads and/or national ads, private events, some areas might even have a school district Matinee program. But most of your money is coming from concessions.
now we get covid - it potentially will ruin the theater business. I guess its possible some one will buy up these properties for pennies on the dollar, however given the change in the way Hollywood distributes movies (a process that was already changing before covid), the cost of those movies to the theater owner and the lack of consistently good product , as a business man I'd be very leary about owning a theater thinking i was going to make it big showing movies. I might buy it as real estate and tear the building down. I might buy it and convert it to something else, but I wouldn't put a big investment into "the movie business" given the factors already in place: plus covid.
I'm in the movie business. I'm sitting in my office on the 2nd floor of a movie theater typing away. I'm not just guessing here. I truly believe we are THIS close to losing a part of americana. We will know in 6 months time. Crossing my fingers both for selfish reasons (income) and me and my family love movies
by the way if you have Amazon prime, watch Infinity Chamber ...like tonight.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Not a movie guy but we have one old time movie theater in this back water town that dates to the 1920s. I love the occasional trip there. They have their own kitchen and sell alcohol.
Multiple multiplexes within 20 minute drive. Not sure the last time I was at any of them. No desire to set foot in one again.
Well, going to the movies may be dying, but I’d never pay $25 to watch a movie at home 
. If “blockbuster” movies will be going right to streaming platforms I will wait to they become “free” with whatever subscription tier I am at. Using Mulan as the example it will be free with my Disney+ subscription I’m December and I’ll watch then.
. If “blockbuster” movies will be going right to streaming platforms I will wait to they become “free” with whatever subscription tier I am at. Using Mulan as the example it will be free with my Disney+ subscription I’m December and I’ll watch then. 
DJackson10
Footballguy
Good Movie theatres are the biggest scam in this country. Just stream it from home and have people buy the movie on demand or other streaming services. I can't tell you how much Ive saved on not going to the theatre the last 5-10 yrs or recently in the last 5-6 months. Want Popcorn or other goodies just go to your kitchen. Want to buy it at the store? Skittles Recee Pieces? No need to pay $5 for a box where you get maybe 20 pieces of candy? Want a soda? Grab it from the kitchen no need to pay 7.50 for Medium soda? You guys don't need to spend $60 for your family before spending $12 per ticket to the theatre. Much better experience at home plus the bathroom is a heck of a lot cleaner and you don't have idiots talking throughout the movie.
DJackson10
Footballguy
My one former co worker use to work at AMC. The problem with Ticket and menu $$$'s is the fact that the movie itself takes most of the ticket revenue. Movie THeatres make almost nothing on tickets so they up the prices on food and beverages. These dine in theatres are a pretty good experience, BUT and HOWEVER I would only do them for a huge Movie. For Instance I did this for the Lion King Remake. My Cousin and I will do this for Top Gun 2 (If we can). But we aren't gonna do this for some random movie coming out. Would rather just rent it to stream this point then anything elsezamboni said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Except Survivor thats like the only good Reality Contest type show.dkp993 said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
[icon]
Insoxicated
NYT article highlighting "influencers" vs a hard revenue data
I give up, you win. Where do I sign the treaty?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Restaurants will never survive once people find out it's cheaper to cook at home.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
What we have learned from this thread is that this is a mixed opinion. I am in the camp that doesn't think so. Part of watching movies for me is/was them being an escape. I don't get that when I hear the dogs whining, neighbors mowing lawn, whatever. That crap I get every day. There is a buzz at the theater that isn't replicated at home, and like I posted elsewhere - watching horror movies as a group is great.
Maybe because of that, I am also in the camp of not going to pay $30 for VOD, which might answer your question a few posts after this one about why they haven't tried that. Haven't they been with titles? (I thought Invisible Man was one this year?). If I am not getting the movie experience I will either just wait a little bit for it to be on streaming or if I am spending $20+ for it I will wait to buy it.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
LOL. You and I are on the opposite of ends of the movie goer I see. I hate these things and will avoid them if at all possible.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Lots of restaurants are closing up shop forcing people to cook at home or use delivery/takeout. Even if some people want to go to movie theaters, the pandemic may not make it feasible for the theaters to operate. People will continue to invest in giant TVs, projectors, and sound systems as a way to watch movies. Some may miss the theater experience and others may not miss the theaters enough to return.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Going to a movie Saturday. My wife and I do the AMC A-List thing where we pay $20 a month to see up to 3 movies a week. We very rarely see that many (especially now) but before the pandemic we were averaging 5-7 a month, most in a Dolby theater (where tickets are $18.99). We usually smuggle in snacks and occasionally got popcorn - usually shared a drink.
Even if we just saw 3 movies a month (about what we're doing now) we still are getting more than our $$ worth.
Even if we just saw 3 movies a month (about what we're doing now) we still are getting more than our $$ worth.
Zegras11
Footballguy
My daughter works ar Cheesecake factory. Pre covid, they would do $40k on a Saturday. Last Saturday, they did $20k take out/delivery and $20k dining inside. The delivery orders put inside dining at 30-40 minutes to get food. Some of the stores have added a second kitchen to keep up with the TO/Delivery orders.
Osaurus
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
TLEF316
Footballguy
Can't remember the last time I had a decent theater experience. To be fair, the only time I go to the theater is for Marvel, star wars or some other sort of big loud blockbuster. Otherwise, I just dont see the point.
But every time I go (and i recognize this is mostly due to the types of movies I'm seeing) there's idiots on their phones, kids in my row who have to go to the bathroom 5x during the movie, etc.
Will I MISS the theater experience the 2-3 times a year (if that)? I guess. But its not a huge loss.
But every time I go (and i recognize this is mostly due to the types of movies I'm seeing) there's idiots on their phones, kids in my row who have to go to the bathroom 5x during the movie, etc.
Will I MISS the theater experience the 2-3 times a year (if that)? I guess. But its not a huge loss.
There used to be a specific law that explicitly limited the studios to owning only 2 of the 3 of 1) production, 2) distribution, and 3) exhibition.
That block has only recently been removed, allowing studios to take over exhibition as well (the least profitable of the 3 they opted out of)
spodog
Footballguy
They'll be back, may take time, but they will return.
A recent, but pre-2020 study showed 1.3B visits by 246M moviegoers in U.S. and Canada, around 71% of the population. Average ticket price slightly over $8, and increasing at a rate lower than COL increases. Compare that (since this is a football board) to NFL attendance visits of 17M in the same year and average ticket price of $372.
Studios and the Theatre chains have massive incentives to find ways to please their customers, and create an enjoyable experience, while the NFL has had to get creative to find more and more ways to piss off their customer base.
As stated in this thread, the theatre R/E may change hands, but the experience will come back.
A recent, but pre-2020 study showed 1.3B visits by 246M moviegoers in U.S. and Canada, around 71% of the population. Average ticket price slightly over $8, and increasing at a rate lower than COL increases. Compare that (since this is a football board) to NFL attendance visits of 17M in the same year and average ticket price of $372.
Studios and the Theatre chains have massive incentives to find ways to please their customers, and create an enjoyable experience, while the NFL has had to get creative to find more and more ways to piss off their customer base.
As stated in this thread, the theatre R/E may change hands, but the experience will come back.
waiver wire
Footballguy
i only go to movie theatres for special effects movies , i dont have the setup at home to enjoy these and just wait for the dramas, comedies and period pieces that i want to see to get on netflix or download them
I usually go to the afternoon show as well as its cheaper and almost empty
I usually go to the afternoon show as well as its cheaper and almost empty
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Most of our trips to the theater are for my daughter and that is only about 3-4 times each year. My wife and I probably go to 2 or 3 movies a year. It’s not something that we enjoy that much.
Maik Jeaunz
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I mean, he said that - but I would guess the older grumpier guys in this thread are more likely to see a movie in the theater. The grumblings seem to be coming from those whipper snappers that are 30y.o. and under.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I miss the movie experience quite a bit. Comedies are never funnier than at a theater full of people laughing. Action movies never look or sound better than in a theater. Ford v Ferrari isn’t even the same movie at home vs the theater.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Probably just a sign of my antisocial tendencies. I honestly don’t mind many of the pandemic restrictions, and wouldn’t miss theaters, sporting events, concerts and bars all ceasing to exist.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
This is no different than movies in theaters. It doesn't sound like you're into the movies that are big budget summer blockbusters running 16 TV spots during every NFL game, so why would you expect that the streaming movies you'd want would be the big budget ones they are pushing on the front page?
Just like theaters, most of the cinefile type stuff is not the stuff they are pushing to the front with their marketing.
Last edited by a moderator:
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Marketing is one thing. My nervousness comes from those types being the main ones being produced in general.
But, as I have admitted, I have that anti-NF bias and need to pump the brakes on that a bit. I also became "that guy" that annoys me in the coarse of this thread, so I will try harder to watch more of these streaming originals in my queue before I solidify my opinion.
Like somebody pointed out (80s maybe), there are already big name directors pumping out stuff for the services and I would imagine more would do the same if theaters dried up. Stepping back and thinking about it my pushback is mainly twofold: I really like the theater experience (or at least the idea of it), and I really don't like the path we are going down where we need a dozen subscriptions to watch all the stuff we want to.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Agree. At home I have to pause the movie like 3x for phone breaks. It’s sad. But at the theater I never even think of looking at it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree on sports. I was basically done with them before Covid. All the commercial breaks and slow pace sucks. Bars and movies I miss a lot though.
Capella
Footballguy
For a good movie we just leave them in the next room. The constant text messages/impulse to check ruins it.
Similar threads
