17 year old shot dead during attempted robbery (1 Viewer)

[grateful zed]

The male resident of the house reportedly found the intruder in his garage after an alarm went off, and shot him with a shotgun. The victim eventually died from the injuries.

A Montana man hell-bent on catching the bandits who broke into his home set up a trap to lure the thieves back before he fatally shot a 17-year-old boy — a German exchange student — in his garage, authorities said.

The 17-year-old boy who was shot and killed early Sunday was Diren Dede, a foreign exchange student from Hamburg, Germany, attending Missoula's Big Sky High School this year.

 

[NCCommish]

Don't get to set traps. Had no idea who he was even shooting at. A little jail time seems appropriate.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I don't have much sympathy for either party here.

 

[butcher boy]

This type of thing wouldn't happen if all the robbers had guns.

 

[Guest]

Kid was up to no good obviously.

Why go through all the trouble to set a trap unless you want to shoot someone? Some motion sensing lights and video security equipment would have been a better choice.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Hate crime imo

 

[StrikeS2k]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

 

[NCCommish]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

 

[njherdfan]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

What would you call it? It certainly seems like he was trying to entice someone to come into his garage.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Tough one.

Kid should have known better than to enter another mans garage. Two things you don't do...Enter another mans wife or garage without his permission.

 

[Sinn Fein]

The couple claims they had been burglarized at least two times in the previous three weeks and became frustrated by the police department’s inability to identify or arrest the suspects.

“He stated he didn’t want the male to get away and that he wanted him to be caught,” investigators wrote in court papers obtained by the newspaper.

“He stated that police can’t catch the burglars in the act.”

The documents also show that a hair stylist told police Kaarma had mentioned days earlier that he was staying up most nights hoping to catch the suspects who burglarized his home, stealing cellphones and credit cards..

“I’m just waiting to shoot some f--king kid,” he allegedly told the stylist during a visit to the local salon.

“(She) reported that the defendant was being extremely vulgar and belligerent,” the affidavit states, according to the Missoulian. “She asked the defendant to quit swearing and he said he could say 'whatever the f--k' he wanted.”

Pflager told investigators that she had placed a purse in the garage the night before the shooting so that it could be seen with the door rolled open. She placed a baby monitor in the garage and had motion sensors installed outside, court documents obtained by the paper show.

Suddenly, she said a sensor alerted them that someone was outside as the couple watched television shortly after midnight.

Pflager used the baby monitor to see that a suspect was rummaging through the garage and took pictures of the images with her phone.

Kaarma jumped up from the couch and grabbed the shotgun he placed near the dining room before marching out the front door so he could approach the suspects from the outside.

One of the bandits managed to dart out of the way before Kaarma trapped Dede inside and opened fire on the unarmed teen.

“Hey, hey,” Pflager heard Kaarma yell before he chambered a round in the shotgun.

The wife said she heard Dede reply, “hey,” or “wait,” before she heard the first two blasts. Kaarma fired two more shots before Pflager managed to turn on the lights and found the wounded teen bleeding inside the garage.

 

[Yenrub]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/montana-man-arrested-allegedly-trapping-killing-teen-suspect-broke-garage-article-1.1772463

Pflager told investigators that she had placed a purse in the garage the night before the shooting so that it could be seen with the door rolled open. She placed a baby monitor in the garage and had motion sensors installed outside, court documents obtained by the paper show.

Suddenly, she said a sensor alerted them that someone was outside as the couple watched television shortly after midnight.

Pflager used the baby monitor to see that a suspect was rummaging through the garage and took pictures of the images with her phone.

Kaarma jumped up from the couch and grabbed the shotgun he placed near the dining room before marching out the front door so he could approach the suspects from the outside.

One of the bandits managed to dart out of the way before Kaarma trapped Dede inside and opened fire on the unarmed teen.

The kid shouldn't have been there but this sure seems like a set up to me

 

[Zow]

Damn, that kid had some bad karma.

 

[Josie Maran]

I'm with the homeowner here. The kid probably would have annexed the whole damn garage. Back yard would have been next

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Damn, that kid had some bad karma.

I see what you did there.

 

[Balance]

This type of thing wouldn't happen if all the robbers had guns.

If we ban guns only trap setting homeowners will have guns.

 

[[icon]]

Usually I'm 100% for the rights of folks to defend their home with firearms...

"“I’m just waiting to shoot some f--king kid,” he allegedly told the stylist during a visit to the local salon.

“(She) reported that the defendant was being extremely vulgar and belligerent,” the affidavit states, according to the Missoulian. “She asked the defendant to quit swearing and he said he could say 'whatever the f--k' he wanted.”

This will do him no favors. No bueno to have this mentality.

Pflager told investigators that she had placed a purse in the garage the night before the shooting so that it could be seen with the door rolled open.

Having possessions within sight does not qualify an attempt to steal. However placing them there with the blatant intent of luring them in is lame as ####.

Sounds like the woman just wanted to get photos/video of the thieves (not even thinking that it might be different thieves).
Sounds like dickmitten guy was a loose cannon and snapped, and took it too far.

Him yelling "hey", chambering a round, then emptying both barrels, releoading, two more barrels.... eh... not sure castle doctrine saves him here. Some jail time DEFINITELY seems appropriate.

 

[spreagle]

I would never notice a purse in someone's garage at night, unless it had a spotlight and blinking LEDs on it. The open garage door was the bait, not the purse imo.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I'm with the homeowner here. The kid probably would have annexed the whole damn garage. Back yard would have been next

/thread

 

[sho nuff]

The couple claims they had been burglarized at least two times in the previous three weeks and became frustrated by the police department’s inability to identify or arrest the suspects.

“He stated he didn’t want the male to get away and that he wanted him to be caught,” investigators wrote in court papers obtained by the newspaper.

“He stated that police can’t catch the burglars in the act.”

The documents also show that a hair stylist told police Kaarma had mentioned days earlier that he was staying up most nights hoping to catch the suspects who burglarized his home, stealing cellphones and credit cards..

“I’m just waiting to shoot some f--king kid,” he allegedly told the stylist during a visit to the local salon.

“(She) reported that the defendant was being extremely vulgar and belligerent,” the affidavit states, according to the Missoulian. “She asked the defendant to quit swearing and he said he could say 'whatever the f--k' he wanted.”

Pflager told investigators that she had placed a purse in the garage the night before the shooting so that it could be seen with the door rolled open. She placed a baby monitor in the garage and had motion sensors installed outside, court documents obtained by the paper show.

Suddenly, she said a sensor alerted them that someone was outside as the couple watched television shortly after midnight.

Pflager used the baby monitor to see that a suspect was rummaging through the garage and took pictures of the images with her phone.

Kaarma jumped up from the couch and grabbed the shotgun he placed near the dining room before marching out the front door so he could approach the suspects from the outside.

One of the bandits managed to dart out of the way before Kaarma trapped Dede inside and opened fire on the unarmed teen.

“Hey, hey,” Pflager heard Kaarma yell before he chambered a round in the shotgun.

The wife said she heard Dede reply, “hey,” or “wait,” before she heard the first two blasts. Kaarma fired two more shots before Pflager managed to turn on the lights and found the wounded teen bleeding inside the garage.

If he said what he did...colossal #######.

You have a kid trapped...with a shotgun on him and just start blasting.

Im all for protecting yourself...but this dude is screwed...but I am sure there are some here that will defend him.

 

[Balance]

I'm with the homeowner here. The kid probably would have annexed the whole damn garage. Back yard would have been next

Next thing you know, the BLM would be involved and Hannity would be fighting with John Stewart.

 

[jon_mx]

Hate crime imo

Is it possible to commit a hate crime against a Nazi? Not saying it applies here, just a hypothetical.

 

[StrikeS2k]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

 

[jon_mx]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

 

[sho nuff]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

But you laughed at people calling it setting a trap...when, factually its what the guy did and admitted as much.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

 

[StrikeS2k]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

But you laughed at people calling it setting a trap...when, factually its what the guy did and admitted as much.

Yes, because I find that term humorous to describe someone doing nothing wrong on their own property. There is a suggestion that they did something wrong in putting bait out. And I don't think they did. The wrong occurred when the kid got shot in cold blood. And that should be the focus. So shoot me for LOL'ing at something I find humorous, and still do.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Trap or not, I don't feel sorry for the kid. This is what happens sometimes when you try to rob someone.

As for the shooter, he'll do some time, as he should.

 

[jon_mx]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

She heard it directly from the defendants mouth, how is that hearsay?

 

[Zow]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

What the shooter said? That's not excludable hearsay.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

Hearsay can be addmissable

 

[njherdfan]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

Without knowing Montana's Evidence laws, I can tell you that's almost certainly not the case. Under the FRE, the opposing party's statements aren't hearsay, and I doubt that any state's rules are different.

 

[sho nuff]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

But you laughed at people calling it setting a trap...when, factually its what the guy did and admitted as much.

Yes, because I find that term humorous to describe someone doing nothing wrong on their own property. There is a suggestion that they did something wrong in putting bait out. And I don't think they did. The wrong occurred when the kid got shot in cold blood. And that should be the focus. So shoot me for LOL'ing at something I find humorous, and still do.

Apparently people using the proper term for what happened is humorous to you...that is an interesting sense of humor.

 

[Zow]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

Without knowing Montana's Evidence laws, I can tell you that's almost certainly not the case. Under the FRE, the opposing party's statements aren't hearsay, and I doubt that any state's rules are different.

Yeah I don't think any state varies on the admissibility of the defendant's statements against interest/admissions.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

Hearsay can be addmissable

Maybe hearsay is the wrong definition. My point is just because some hairdresser said she heard something doesn't necessarily make it so. She allegedly heard him say this.

 

[GrandpaRox]

Thats a good kill in Texas.

What was that wonderful, innocent, exemplary child doing in anothers mans garage at 12:30 am?

I need to leave my garage door open more.

 

[Zow]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

Hearsay can be addmissable

Maybe hearsay is the wrong definition. My point is just because some hairdresser said she heard something doesn't necessarily make it so. She allegedly heard him say this.

Hearsay is the wrong term. What you're considering/arguing is the weight of the evidence. At a trial, it's very likely the state could call the hairdresser as a witness and be permitted to have her state what the Defendant told her because it's relevant towards intent. Naturally, the defense would then probably want to impeach her credibility somehow, but this certainly sounds like a scenario where doing so would be difficult because there is no apparent reason (that we know of from the media reports) that she'd be making this up.

 

[sbonomo]

I am a big proponent of being able to protect your home, but this seems over the top.

 

[Zow]

Also, if we're being permitted to nitpick law in this thread,* I'll express my stark objection to the thread title using the term "robbery." What this kid appeared to be committing is "burglary." If he had been in fact committing robbery (theft plus assault) against the homeowner, the the homeowner's use of deadly force likely may have been justified.

*I recognize the distinction, while actually crucial to the facts, may some a bit nitpicky and annoying lawyer talk. If so I'll humbly retreat to the lawyer thread.

 

[timschochet]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

But you laughed at people calling it setting a trap...when, factually its what the guy did and admitted as much.

Yes, because I find that term humorous to describe someone doing nothing wrong on their own property. There is a suggestion that they did something wrong in putting bait out. And I don't think they did. The wrong occurred when the kid got shot in cold blood. And that should be the focus. So shoot me for LOL'ing at something I find humorous, and still do.

For once I agree with Strike. Setting the trap, springing the trap, that's irrelevant. It's the guy's right to do it if he wants to. Shooting an unarmed kid, that's different.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

Hearsay can be addmissable

Maybe hearsay is the wrong definition. My point is just because some hairdresser said she heard something doesn't necessarily make it so. She allegedly heard him say this.

Hearsay is the wrong term. What you're considering/arguing is the weight of the evidence. At a trial, it's very likely the state could call the hairdresser as a witness and be permitted to have her state what the Defendant told her because it's relevant towards intent. Naturally, the defense would then probably want to impeach her credibility somehow, but this certainly sounds like a scenario where doing so would be difficult because there is no apparent reason (that we know of from the media reports) that she'd be making this up.

In my mind I was thinking that you would need for more than one person to hear his statement. It seems like if she was pissed about him being vulgar in her shop she could be vindictive and say she heard him make this statement.

 

[JaxBill]

Can't believe he shot an unarmed teen. Kaarma's a #####.

 

[Fat Nick]

Curious about the implications with Montana's Castle Doctrine...seems like if it's not wide-open, aka, "you can defend your entire property at all costs in any means necessary," that he's going to have trouble justifying why he walked OUTSIDE to trap the kid inside if his intent was to protect his house.

I know in NJ, you have a right to protect your house, but on your property, you have to retreat until you can't before you can act...This was more pursuit than protect.

 

[Zow]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

On their own property. I have no problem with them trying to entice a criminal in to committing a crime, especially since they've been victimized multiple times recently. Your suggestion that you "don't get to set traps" is wrong. If they'd simply held him for the police they'd have done nothing wrong. Where he went wrong was in shooting the kid in cold blood, which is what I think happened, much like that Minnesota case that is being tried right now. And this guy should be prosecuted as well.

And considering what he said earlier, this is Murder 1. He set out to shot them and he did. This guy should be put away for life.

What he supposedly said earlier would most probably be considered hearsay.

Hearsay can be addmissable

Maybe hearsay is the wrong definition. My point is just because some hairdresser said she heard something doesn't necessarily make it so. She allegedly heard him say this.

Hearsay is the wrong term. What you're considering/arguing is the weight of the evidence. At a trial, it's very likely the state could call the hairdresser as a witness and be permitted to have her state what the Defendant told her because it's relevant towards intent. Naturally, the defense would then probably want to impeach her credibility somehow, but this certainly sounds like a scenario where doing so would be difficult because there is no apparent reason (that we know of from the media reports) that she'd be making this up.

In my mind I was thinking that you would need for more than one person to hear his statement. It seems like if she was pissed about him being vulgar in her shop she could be vindictive and say she heard him make this statement.

I understand where you're coming from (and as a defense attorney would love you on my jury), but only one person needs to hear the defendant's statement for it to be admissible. Your second sentence merely goes to the weight of the evidence - i.e. what a defense attorney may try to use to argue to the jury to not believe what the lady says she heard the shooter say.

 

[Zow]

Can't believe he shot an unarmed teen. Kaarma's a #####.

 

[Christo]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Kid should have known better than to enter another mans garage. Two things you don't do...Enter another mans wife or garage without his permission.

Or mow his lawn.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Also, if we're being permitted to nitpick law in this thread,* I'll express my stark objection to the thread title using the term "robbery." What this kid appeared to be committing is "burglary." If he had been in fact committing robbery (theft plus assault) against the homeowner, the the homeowner's use of deadly force likely may have been justified.

*I recognize the distinction, while actually crucial to the facts, may some a bit nitpicky and annoying lawyer talk. If so I'll humbly retreat to the lawyer thread.

I actually appreciate your comments as it provides an understanding or better understanding of law for those of us who are interested.

 

[Zow]

Also, if we're being permitted to nitpick law in this thread,* I'll express my stark objection to the thread title using the term "robbery." What this kid appeared to be committing is "burglary." If he had been in fact committing robbery (theft plus assault) against the homeowner, the the homeowner's use of deadly force likely may have been justified.

*I recognize the distinction, while actually crucial to the facts, may some a bit nitpicky and annoying lawyer talk. If so I'll humbly retreat to the lawyer thread.

I actually appreciate your comments as it provides an understanding or better understanding of law for those of us who are interested.

 

[Thunderlips]

Gives gun owners a bad name and provide more fuel to the anti gun movement.