17 year old shot dead during attempted robbery (1 Viewer)

[Todem]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

 

[Todem]

Also, if we're being permitted to nitpick law in this thread,* I'll express my stark objection to the thread title using the term "robbery." What this kid appeared to be committing is "burglary." If he had been in fact committing robbery (theft plus assault) against the homeowner, the the homeowner's use of deadly force likely may have been justified.

*I recognize the distinction, while actually crucial to the facts, may some a bit nitpicky and annoying lawyer talk. If so I'll humbly retreat to the lawyer thread.

100% agreed.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Seems like a warning or a beating were in store. Either one most probably would have taught a 17 year old a valuable lesson. To young to die for stupidity.

 

[Clifford]

Ryan maintained that his client only fired because he feared for his safety and couldn’t see if the suspect was armed.

Boy, this genie is out of the bottle...

 

[Jules Winnfield]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

 

[Ghost Rider]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

 

[Christo]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

Where did I mention anything about the actual shooting.

I'm not the one who's fishing here, Fishy McFisherman.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Also, if we're being permitted to nitpick law in this thread,* I'll express my stark objection to the thread title using the term "robbery." What this kid appeared to be committing is "burglary." If he had been in fact committing robbery (theft plus assault) against the homeowner, the the homeowner's use of deadly force likely may have been justified.

*I recognize the distinction, while actually crucial to the facts, may some a bit nitpicky and annoying lawyer talk. If so I'll humbly retreat to the lawyer thread.

I think the kid was actually raping the garage.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Lawyer folk: any way attractive nuisance could come into play here? Just spitballing.

 

[Yenrub]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Is entering an open garage the same thing as breaking into the house?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Is entering an open garage the same thing as breaking into the house?

I suspect the lawyers here can answer this better than I can, but both cases involve going inside someone else's home. I suspect the garage is considered the "inside" of the home, as opposed to the driveway or lawn, which would be the "outside."

 

[kface]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Is entering an open garage the same thing as breaking into the house?

I suspect the lawyers here can answer this better than I can, but both cases involve going inside someone else's home. I suspect the garage is considered the "inside" of the home, as opposed to the driveway or lawn, which would be the "outside."

Honeslty, I can imagine a scenario where the kid was just going to grab the purse and bring it to the door for them as in he was concerned that someone was going to steal it. This wasn't a street thug, it was an exchange student...usually those types of people are near the top of their class. Maybe he just saw an opportunity and couldn't resist but this is a terrible result for this kid and his family. The shooter should do life...The random shootings may be getting out of hand in this country but to me more concerning is the shooting by nutjobs who think they are 'threatened'.

 

[Yenrub]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Is entering an open garage the same thing as breaking into the house?

I suspect the lawyers here can answer this better than I can, but both cases involve going inside someone else's home. I suspect the garage is considered the "inside" of the home, as opposed to the driveway or lawn, which would be the "outside."

So per an online dictionary breaking and entering is

entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breaking and entering alone is probably at least illegal trespass, which is a misdemeanor crime

The story says the homeowner left the garage door open (I assume they meant up and open and not just unlocked)

If the door was wide open then the kid didn't have to use any force to enter the garage

 

[Balance]

Kid should have known better than to enter another mans garage. Two things you don't do...Enter another mans wife or garage without his permission.

Or mow his lawn.

Or mow his wife's lawn.

 

[Zow]

Lawyer folk: any way attractive nuisance could come into play here? Just spitballing.

You're an unattractive nuisance.

 

[Zow]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Is entering an open garage the same thing as breaking into the house?

This is likely going to be very jurisdiction specific.

 

[Zow]

Ryan maintained that his client only fired because he feared for his safety and couldn’t see if the suspect was armed.

Boy, this genie is out of the bottle...

What exactly did you expect him to argue?

 

[Zow]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

 

[jon_mx]

If there are laws on the books that allow this SOB to go free there is a problem which needs fixing.

 

[jon_mx]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

To non-lawyers it shows premeditation. In legal speak where premeditation can occur within seconds it may not matter.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Well said jon

 

[Christo]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

To non-lawyers it shows premeditation. In legal speak where premeditation can occur within seconds it may not matter.

God I wish I was still a layman so I could conflate issues.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Lawyer folk: any way attractive nuisance could come into play here? Just spitballing.

You're an unattractive nuisance.

At least I'm attractive.

 

[Todem]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Very true……it's tough. But if you ask me what I would do if someone broke into my house……I would also shoot to kill. No question.

It's just a tragedy though when the kid was unarmed…..another wasted life. Hind sight is always 20/20….no way he could have known…I agree.

Just sad.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Very true……it's tough. But if you ask me what I would do if someone broke into my house……I would also shoot to kill. No question.

It's just a tragedy though when the kid was unarmed…..another wasted life. Hind sight is always 20/20….no way he could have known…I agree.

Just sad.

What if you were outside? Would you go into your house to shoot an intruder?

 

[Todem]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Is entering an open garage the same thing as breaking into the house?

I suspect the lawyers here can answer this better than I can, but both cases involve going inside someone else's home. I suspect the garage is considered the "inside" of the home, as opposed to the driveway or lawn, which would be the "outside."

So per an online dictionary breaking and entering is

entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breaking and entering alone is probably at least illegal trespass, which is a misdemeanor crime

The story says the homeowner left the garage door open (I assume they meant up and open and not just unlocked)

If the door was wide open then the kid didn't have to use any force to enter the garage

Then it is trespassing.

 

[Todem]

Can't stand it when I hear of kids being shot dead.......and unarmed.

It's one thing if they are carrying a weapon (gun, lead pipe, bat) and threaten your life.....it's another when they are shot dead in this manner where it seemed like a simple burglary with no intent to hurt anyone in the home....just a stupid 17 year old kid being a real dumb ###.

It seems the homeowner went into the garage with total intent to kill regardless.

Tough case. He probably will do some time. He has to prove some type of self defense. There was no struggle, no threat other than the kid being in his garage.

Again...I am no lawyer.....so this case will be a tough one.

There is no way to know this. If someone breaks into my house, I assume they intend to do any and everything to not get caught.

Very true……it's tough. But if you ask me what I would do if someone broke into my house……I would also shoot to kill. No question.

It's just a tragedy though when the kid was unarmed…..another wasted life. Hind sight is always 20/20….no way he could have known…I agree.

Just sad.

What if you were outside? Would you go into your house to shoot an intruder?

If my family were inside and in danger…..yes. If my entire family was with me safely outside no.

I would call the police. I would only kill if my life or my families lives were threatened.

 

[Sinn Fein]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

To non-lawyers it shows premeditation. In legal speak where premeditation can occur within seconds it may not matter.

God I wish I was still a layman so I could conflate issues.

Trust me, a lot of people wish you were also...

 

[Sinn Fein]

If my family was inside and in danger…..yes. If my entire family was with me safely outside no.

I would call the police. I would only kill if my life or my families lives were threatened.

What if your family was inside, and the burglar was in your garage (assume the door from the garage to the house was locked) - would you go outside, and shoot the guy rummaging in the garage?

I am not a gun guy, but I'll concede that when in your house, and confronted by a burglar, I think it would be natural to reach for a gun and fire it at anyone advancing on your position.

But, I think too many gun people extend this notion to the "right" to shoot anyone on their premises - and that, in my view, is taking it too far.

I don't think the guy in this case, feared for his life, or that of his girlfriend (wife?). Evidence that someone has broken into your house and stolen things is not evidence that someone is coming back to physically harm you or your family.

 

[[icon]]

If my family was inside and in danger…..yes. If my entire family was with me safely outside no.

I would call the police. I would only kill if my life or my families lives were threatened.

What if your family was inside, and the burglar was in your garage (assume the door from the garage to the house was locked) - would you go outside, and shoot the guy rummaging in the garage?

I am not a gun guy, but I'll concede that when in your house, and confronted by a burglar, I think it would be natural to reach for a gun and fire it at anyone advancing on your position.

But, I think too many gun people extend this notion to the "right" to shoot anyone on their premises - and that, in my view, is taking it too far.

I don't think the guy in this case, feared for his life, or that of his girlfriend (wife?). Evidence that someone has broken into your house and stolen things is not evidence that someone is coming back to physically harm you or your family.

If he was in the garage and I was inside, and I could not see a weapon and he was making no move toward the house... I would not confront him.

If I saw a weapon, and he made even the slightest move in the direction of the door of the house (or if he moved as if he was about to enter the house even without seeing a weapon), I'd put the barrel of my shotgun through the window and shoot him.

Going out of your way to shoot a petty thief that shows no threat to you or your family is not OK imo.

 

[jon_mx]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

To non-lawyers it shows premeditation. In legal speak where premeditation can occur within seconds it may not matter.

God I wish I was still a layman so I could conflate issues.

Yeah. What I really need to understand is what is the difference in Christo speak between :rofl: and 'so what'.

 

[Zow]

Lawyer folk: any way attractive nuisance could come into play here? Just spitballing.

You're an unattractive nuisance.

At least I'm attractive.

ahem

 

[FreeBaGeL]

If my family was inside and in danger…..yes. If my entire family was with me safely outside no.

I would call the police. I would only kill if my life or my families lives were threatened.

What if your family was inside, and the burglar was in your garage (assume the door from the garage to the house was locked) - would you go outside, and shoot the guy rummaging in the garage?

I am not a gun guy, but I'll concede that when in your house, and confronted by a burglar, I think it would be natural to reach for a gun and fire it at anyone advancing on your position.

But, I think too many gun people extend this notion to the "right" to shoot anyone on their premises - and that, in my view, is taking it too far.

I don't think the guy in this case, feared for his life, or that of his girlfriend (wife?). Evidence that someone has broken into your house and stolen things is not evidence that someone is coming back to physically harm you or your family.

If he was in the garage and I was inside, and I could not see a weapon and he was making no move toward the house... I would not confront him.

If I saw a weapon, and he made even the slightest move in the direction of the door of the house (or if he moved as if he was about to enter the house even without seeing a weapon), I'd put the barrel of my shotgun through the window and shoot him.

Going out of your way to shoot a petty thief that shows no threat to you or your family is not OK imo.

"Intent to harm" can often be difficult to distinguish and in the case of a home invasion I think it's fair for the home owner to always assume that intent is there. You could die because you waited for the criminal to show an intent to harm you and that gave him the upper hand. That distinction, in my opinion, is something that the criminal gives up when he decides to be a criminal and enter your home illegally. If you're going into someone's home illegally then you know they might own a gun and might shoot you with it when they see you there uninvited. That's a risk that you weigh against the rewards and accept when you decide to enter. Like gambling, sometimes that risk doesn't pay off except in this case you are knowingly gambling with your life.

If I hear a rustling noise and see a criminal that didn't notice me go around a corner I'm going to be scared so I'm going to turn that corner and shoot. I'm not going to wait and see if he tries to rape my wife first, or if he tries to lunge at me. I'm not even going to wait and see if he just leaves on his own after getting what he wants because I don't want to be in a scenario where I lose track of him, and now if he did have an intent to harm then I've given him the upper hand.

Obviously the scenario here is a bit different since he was luring the guy in in the first place so I don't really know how this should go. But yea, I don't have a window to my garage so if I hear some rustling around in there at 12:30 am, open the door to it, and see someone in there then I'm just going to shoot. For all I know the guy has a gun in his pocket and he's going to shoot me with it the first second he gets the upper hand. Of course this will all change when I have kids as it could be one of them just getting a football they want to make sure they don't forget tomorrow, but right now the only other person that should be in there is my wife and if she's in the bed next to me then I know it's not her.

 

[Christo]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

To non-lawyers it shows premeditation. In legal speak where premeditation can occur within seconds it may not matter.

God I wish I was still a layman so I could conflate issues.

Trust me, a lot of people wish you were also...

A lot of people don't know what the #### they're talking about.

 

[Zow]

If my family was inside and in danger…..yes. If my entire family was with me safely outside no.

I would call the police. I would only kill if my life or my families lives were threatened.

What if your family was inside, and the burglar was in your garage (assume the door from the garage to the house was locked) - would you go outside, and shoot the guy rummaging in the garage?

I am not a gun guy, but I'll concede that when in your house, and confronted by a burglar, I think it would be natural to reach for a gun and fire it at anyone advancing on your position.

But, I think too many gun people extend this notion to the "right" to shoot anyone on their premises - and that, in my view, is taking it too far.

I don't think the guy in this case, feared for his life, or that of his girlfriend (wife?). Evidence that someone has broken into your house and stolen things is not evidence that someone is coming back to physically harm you or your family.

If he was in the garage and I was inside, and I could not see a weapon and he was making no move toward the house... I would not confront him.

If I saw a weapon, and he made even the slightest move in the direction of the door of the house (or if he moved as if he was about to enter the house even without seeing a weapon), I'd put the barrel of my shotgun through the window and shoot him.

Going out of your way to shoot a petty thief that shows no threat to you or your family is not OK imo.

"Intent to harm" can often be difficult to distinguish and in the case of a home invasion I think it's fair for the home owner to always assume that intent is there. You could die because you waited for the criminal to show an intent to harm you and that gave him the upper hand. That distinction, in my opinion, is something that the criminal gives up when he decides to be a criminal and enter your home illegally. If you're going into someone's home illegally then you know they might own a gun and might shoot you with it when they see you there uninvited. That's a risk that you weigh against the rewards and accept when you decide to enter. Like gambling, sometimes that risk doesn't pay off except in this case you are knowingly gambling with your life.

If I hear a rustling noise and see a criminal that didn't notice me go around a corner I'm going to be scared so I'm going to turn that corner and shoot. I'm not going to wait and see if he tries to rape my wife first, or if he tries to lunge at me. I'm not even going to wait and see if he just leaves on his own after getting what he wants because I don't want to be in a scenario where I lose track of him, and now if he did have an intent to harm then I've given him the upper hand.

Obviously the scenario here is a bit different since he was luring the guy in in the first place so I don't really know how this should go. But yea, I don't have a window to my garage so if I hear some rustling around in there at 12:30 am, open the door to it, and see someone in there then I'm just going to shoot. For all I know the guy has a gun in his pocket and he's going to shoot me with it the first second he gets the upper hand. Of course this will all change when I have kids as it could be one of them just getting a football they want to make sure they don't forget tomorrow, but right now the only other person that should be in there is my wife and if she's in the bed next to me then I know it's not her.

For your sake, I hope nobody ever steps on your property without you knowing.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Lawyer folk: any way attractive nuisance could come into play here? Just spitballing.

You're an unattractive nuisance.

At least I'm attractive.

ahem

At least I'm not unattractive.

 

[grateful zed]

Since returning to his Grant Creek home, Kaarma and his partner Janelle Pflager have received anonymous death threats on Facebook

 

[NCCommish]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

Actually many states have or had laws on the books that made it illegal to set any kind of trap that used deadly force. So not sure about this state but yes there just might be some relevance.

 

[cstu]

Thats a good kill in Texas.

What was that wonderful, innocent, exemplary child doing in anothers mans garage at 12:30 am?

I need to leave my garage door open more.

We already know the kid was a poor decision maker since he chose to move to Montana.

 

[Sinn Fein]

LOL at people calling putting things in your own garage a trap.

They left the door open and the purse in plain sight. They then rigged motion detection and cameras. They called it a trap themselves.

I understand all of that. But my reaction is still "So what?"

So four close range shots against a trapped kid in your garage is justifiable? Fish somewhere else Christo

That's not his point. His point is that the fact that this guy set up a trap isn't terribly relevant to the underlying issue of whether he was justified in shooting.

Actually many states have or had laws on the books that made it illegal to set any kind of trap that used deadly force. So not sure about this state but yes there just might be some relevance.

Those cases won't apply - those are about setting deadly traps for property when the owner is not present - i.e. burglar does not pose a threat to the owner. Here the owner was in the house at the time of the burglary.

Now, the fact that the owner left the house to shoot blindly into the garage is going to work against his claim that he was threatened, but he appears to be claiming that he thought the kid might come out of the garage like an angry animal, so he shot him just in case...

 

[grateful zed]

Attorneys representing Markus Kaarma, the Missoula man accused of killing a German exchange student in Kaarma’s garage last April, are asking a judge to bar the public from viewing pretrial evidence of Kaarma’s “prior bad acts.”

http://missoulian.com/news/local/exchange-student-s-shooter-wants-trial-moved-from-missoula-evidence/article_ff3a4a06-11b0-11e4-b594-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Dont wanna get shot n killed dont steal ####

 

[Chaka]

#### this guy. Clean kill or not this guy Kaarma is clearly unhinged and is danger to everyone around him.

Lock him up in jail or a mental institution...oh wait our jails are our mental institutions...whatever just lock up that psychopath.

 

[Chaka]

Dont wanna get shot n killed dont steal ####

And if you want to murder someone and get away with it just set a trap on your property and lie in wait.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Also, if we're being permitted to nitpick law in this thread,* I'll express my stark objection to the thread title using the term "robbery." What this kid appeared to be committing is "burglary." If he had been in fact committing robbery (theft plus assault) against the homeowner, the the homeowner's use of deadly force likely may have been justified.

*I recognize the distinction, while actually crucial to the facts, may some a bit nitpicky and annoying lawyer talk. If so I'll humbly retreat to the lawyer thread.

I think the kid was actually raping the garage.

It's not rape if the way the garage was dressed was begging for it.