2 QBs (or Flex with QB option) Leagues (1 Viewer)

[Koya]

Just had my big money (and pride) league draft last night. we have a flex option which lets you use a QB, so it's basically a two QB league.

WOW. Every year this draft surprises me. No matter how quickly I expect the QBs to go, they go faster in this crazy runs. Tiers and a half get blown out in a round.

9 Qbs taken before the end of the third - usually you would have two and both would have been taken too early. In this league, you best get a QB quick or you are fighting over Drew Brees and Mark Brunell. 22 Qbs GONE by the BEGINNING of the 7th round.

Here I am taking Culpepper in the third, wrenching over the fact that I am leaving Moss on the board and knowing my WRs will be a bit weak, but when 8 QBs are already toast and going quick, you have to put aside the "usual" fantasy logic.

Anyone else in a two QB or flex QB league find themselves doing things they never thought they would do in a draft? (Like me having Deshaun Foster on my roster )

 

[BrentBlack]

I took Aaron Brooks (with 10 QB's already off the board) in Round 4 over Hines Ward, Roy Williams and Darrell Jackson. After Brooks there were 9 QB's taken before I drafted again. ADP and Mock Drafts have ZERO bearing on these types of leagues.

 

[broncofan13000]

Just had my big money (and pride) league draft last night. we have a flex option which lets you use a QB, so it's basically a two QB league.WOW. Every year this draft surprises me. No matter how quickly I expect the QBs to go, they go faster in this crazy runs. Tiers and a half get blown out in a round.9 Qbs taken before the end of the third - usually you would have two and both would have been taken too early. In this league, you best get a QB quick or you are fighting over Drew Brees and Mark Brunell. 22 Qbs GONE by the BEGINNING of the 7th round. Here I am taking Culpepper in the third, wrenching over the fact that I am leaving Moss on the board and knowing my WRs will be a bit weak, but when 8 QBs are already toast and going quick, you have to put aside the "usual" fantasy logic.Anyone else in a two QB or flex QB league find themselves doing things they never thought they would do in a draft? (Like me having Deshaun Foster on my roster )

Yep, my main league is a 2QB league; and no matter how many mock drafts i do, i always project QB's going later then they actually do. However, its a keeper, and i got Peyton, so that helps alot We also start 3RB's (10 team league) so RB's are still in top demand as well.

 

[cobalt_27]

That's awesome. Anything to bury this cookie-cutter "RB-RB-RB-RB-then get whatever else you want" mentality that's infested FF over the last few years.

 

[Cowboys#1]

12 team 2 qb league.. with keepers

12 qb's kept, 26 gone by the end of the 3rd round..

51 taken in the draft.

:(

 

[finnref]

Just had my big money (and pride) league draft last night. we have a flex option which lets you use a QB, so it's basically a two QB league.WOW. Every year this draft surprises me. No matter how quickly I expect the QBs to go, they go faster in this crazy runs. Tiers and a half get blown out in a round.9 Qbs taken before the end of the third - usually you would have two and both would have been taken too early. In this league, you best get a QB quick or you are fighting over Drew Brees and Mark Brunell. 22 Qbs GONE by the BEGINNING of the 7th round. Here I am taking Culpepper in the third, wrenching over the fact that I am leaving Moss on the board and knowing my WRs will be a bit weak, but when 8 QBs are already toast and going quick, you have to put aside the "usual" fantasy logic.Anyone else in a two QB or flex QB league find themselves doing things they never thought they would do in a draft? (Like me having Deshaun Foster on my roster )

2qb leagues are very challenging to draft in compared to 1 qb where the drafting is pretty standard and sometimes predictable. In 2qb they fly off the board along with the rb. 16 rb off the board in 2 rounds, and 20+qb in 8 rounds. There are top wr and te available. You can take them and be strong there but then qb or rb suffers. It is hard to have top 10 or even top 15 players at each position. And I am talking 10 team league. Usually good depth is lacking and one position is weak by 1 qb standards. we play 2rb and 3wr. I find it much more interesting to draft and play in 2 qb. It certainly is different.

 

[Z-Dog]

I play in a lot of 2Qb type leagues. If QBs are going as fast as you describe, well, I think there's value in not getting caught up in it. Yeah, maybe you're going with McNair and Brunell and those types, but if you can land Randy Moss and Willis McGahee while everyone else is going hard on QBs, you will be in the stronger position in mid-season. Don't get me wrong, I respect taking a Peyton Manning in the middle of the first round in these kinds of leagues, but I think taking Aaron Brooks in the 3rd is a big reach. THere are worse things than having weaker QBs offset by stronger and deeper WRs and RBs.

 

[Koya]

Y'all seem to know what I am talking about.

First, I think the format is GREAT. I am in a twelve team league, and that is about as large as 2 QB can go, but for a 10 teamer 2 QBs is almost necessary to make it a challange.

But yeah, mock drafts and ADP mean NOTHING... and you definately need to sacrifice a position (I chose WR and even RB to a degree but have the best QB tandem in the league) but that is the challange.

Instead of going RB-RB-WR-WR or a basic varation of that, you have to take a QB early in most cases and that means someone like me, that wouldnt touch Deshaun Foster, is debating "when do I take DeAngelo Williams" instead of grabbing some QB as a good starter in the 10th round.

The groaning I heard when I took Culpepper let me know that I wasnt too crazy though. After that it was Delhomme, and then a ledge to the next tier.

 

[Koya]

I play in a lot of 2Qb type leagues. If QBs are going as fast as you describe, well, I think there's value in not getting caught up in it. Yeah, maybe you're going with McNair and Brunell and those types, but if you can land Randy Moss and Willis McGahee while everyone else is going hard on QBs, you will be in the stronger position in mid-season. Don't get me wrong, I respect taking a Peyton Manning in the middle of the first round in these kinds of leagues, but I think taking Aaron Brooks in the 3rd is a big reach. THere are worse things than having weaker QBs offset by stronger and deeper WRs and RBs.

Depending on your draft position, I would agree. Depends on the league a lot. I had Culepper and Delhomme as the only guys left that I would take in the fourth - since I was near the turn, I sucked it up and picked QB in the third, because I knew Id get Dunn, Foster or K Jones after the turn (got Foster).One of my friends took your tact. He had to take vick in the 5th (good value imo) but then he is dealing with Phillip Rivers and Brad Johnson in the 7th and 9th, when some good WR values are there, along with some RBs with upside.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I play in a lot of 2Qb type leagues. If QBs are going as fast as you describe, well, I think there's value in not getting caught up in it. Yeah, maybe you're going with McNair and Brunell and those types, but if you can land Randy Moss and Willis McGahee while everyone else is going hard on QBs, you will be in the stronger position in mid-season. Don't get me wrong, I respect taking a Peyton Manning in the middle of the first round in these kinds of leagues, but I think taking Aaron Brooks in the 3rd is a big reach. THere are worse things than having weaker QBs offset by stronger and deeper WRs and RBs.

It's a risk to "wait" on QBs in 2 QB leagues...I think a lot depends on what position you are drfating in...If you are drafting at the end of a round (1/2 or 11/12) it is VERY hard to judge where the run that totally kills the QB position happens...I was drafting from the 7 spot in a 2 QB draft this past week, and the Qbs were flying off the board..Manning 1.04. Brady 1.05, Hasselbeck, Palmer, and E Manning all taken by end of round 2...I did not see a lot of value at QB and decided to go with RBs and WRs and get 2-3 mid talent Qbs to patch together...It ended up working out pretty well, but it also gave me some nervous moments as my picks approached...It is also a .5 point per reception for WRs and TE (but not RBs) league:T Green B FavreJ KitnaBarberJ LewisGoreC BrownB JacobsT HoltA BoldinM JonesMi ClaytonB Watson

 

[ipljeff]

Would any of you 2 QBers even consider taking Manning at #3? Should I be shot for even thinking about taking Manning over SA?

 

[broncofan13000]

I play in a lot of 2Qb type leagues. If QBs are going as fast as you describe, well, I think there's value in not getting caught up in it. Yeah, maybe you're going with McNair and Brunell and those types, but if you can land Randy Moss and Willis McGahee while everyone else is going hard on QBs, you will be in the stronger position in mid-season. Don't get me wrong, I respect taking a Peyton Manning in the middle of the first round in these kinds of leagues, but I think taking Aaron Brooks in the 3rd is a big reach. THere are worse things than having weaker QBs offset by stronger and deeper WRs and RBs.

It's a risk to "wait" on QBs in 2 QB leagues...I think a lot depends on what position you are drfating in...If you are drafting at the end of a round (1/2 or 11/12) it is VERY hard to judge where the run that totally kills the QB position happens...I was drafting from the 7 spot in a 2 QB draft this past week, and the Qbs were flying off the board..Manning 1.04. Brady 1.05, Hasselbeck, Palmer, and E Manning all taken by end of round 2...I did not see a lot of value at QB and decided to go with RBs and WRs and get 2-3 mid talent Qbs to patch together...It ended up working out pretty well, but it also gave me some nervous moments as my picks approached...It is also a .5 point per reception for WRs and TE (but not RBs) league:T Green B FavreJ KitnaBarberJ LewisGoreC BrownB JacobsT HoltA BoldinM JonesMi ClaytonB Watson

That's a good looking team. I think you're going to be fine.

 

[Urinal Mint]

Try it at auction w/ keepers. You pay dearly for 30 pts of production over the course of a season.

 

[Chaka]

Would any of you 2 QBers even consider taking Manning at #3? Should I be shot for even thinking about taking Manning over SA?

Personally I have Manning at #4 and would not go any higher. Ultimately the shot at landing the a guy with legitimate potential to finish as the #1 RB in the league is to tempting. After the big three RBs are gone Manning is the next player on my board.

 

[ookook]

I still avoid taking a QB until about 10 to 15 are off the board and then I take 2 in a row.

Just because people are running on QBs in 2 QB leagues does NOT mean that is where value is.

There is very little difference between QB10 and QB20, compared to WR10 and WR20.

Last year I got E. Manning and Bledsoe late and rocked.

This year more owners waited and I saw opportunity earlier; got Bulger in the 6th round (6th QB taken) and Bledsoe in the 7th (9th QB), followed by Carr in the 12th.

These are all sharks who have internalized the VBD principles. If they had wanted to run QBs like your league, I WOULD WAIT.

 

[Koya]

Would any of you 2 QBers even consider taking Manning at #3? Should I be shot for even thinking about taking Manning over SA?

Personally I have Manning at #4 and would not go any higher. Ultimately the shot at landing the a guy with legitimate potential to finish as the #1 RB in the league is to tempting. After the big three RBs are gone Manning is the next player on my board.

I would definately put the big three above Manning, and probably Tiki as well. But that next group? Really, who DOESNT have a question mark, when you know 1/2 of the top ten RBs will finish well below expectations:S Jax (new coaching, and he has shown flashes but its been far more hype for two years than much else)Ronnie Brown - we aint seen it yet except some flashes last yearLamont - He is a raider. Can you 'expect' anything?Caddy - Im not sold especially because of the injuries and no goaline oppsPortis - HurtingRudi - Best of the group imo, but he wont win you a league. He migh tnot lose it like the ones mentioned above if they flop, but he probably wont win it either.I would MUCH rather have manning over any of them, knowing that my next tier of RBs isnt so different from this one (mcgahee, fast willie) and you know what you are getting with manning.They say you cant win the league with your first rounder (unless you get a Faulk or Priest) but you can lose it.

 

[Koya]

I still avoid taking a QB until about 10 to 15 are off the board and then I take 2 in a row.Just because people are running on QBs in 2 QB leagues does NOT mean that is where value is.There is very little difference between QB10 and QB20, compared to WR10 and WR20.Last year I got E. Manning and Bledsoe late and rocked. This year more owners waited and I saw opportunity earlier; got Bulger in the 6th round (6th QB taken) and Bledsoe in the 7th (9th QB), followed by Carr in the 12th. These are all sharks who have internalized the VBD principles. If they had wanted to run QBs like your league, I WOULD WAIT.

Depends when you are in the run.First, I think between the 10th and 20th QB there is a big difference, especially if you are starting two QBs that are 18 or worse on the list. Qbs in our league are also the only player that is subject to bonus points (3 points at 300 yards) so that puts a little more premium on things.That said, I had 9 "top" QBs that would warrant a 4th or better and then I would have waited. But as noted, if you wait too long, you can really be hurting.That isnt to talk about guys losing the job or getting hurt either. Like a RB, you really need to plan for that with 2 Qbs because there will be NONE on the waiver wire. You can find a RB to plug maybe and get 6 points, but if the starting QBs are gone (and mid season, they are), you are cooked.

 

[BassNBrew]

Question for you guys playing 2 QB leagues 12 teams. Seems like you would need 3 QBs to cover the bye weeks. Only 32 teams in the league. Looks like 4 teams end up taking a donut in two games each year.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

I play in 2 Super Flex leagues (can start a 2nd player at RB, WR, QB, TE or Def) and I highly recommend it. I think that its better than the mandatory start 2 QB formats as it presents more different roster strategies, especially if the league scoring format adequately rewards Team Defense and that the Defense is also an eligible Super Flex play.

Anyway, QBs still didn't go as quickly in these 2 "mature" leagues (i.e., we've used the Super Flex for at least 4 years now) as in some others.

League 1 (# QBs drafted by end of round)

Rd 3 - 3

Rd 4 - 5

Rd 5 - 7

Rd 6 - 12

League 2 (partial Keeper league)

Kept QBs - 6

Rd 3 - 9 (including the 6 keepers)

rd 4 - 11

rd 5 - 12

I love the fact that none of the "off the shelf" cheatsheets and VBD programs really handle this feature adequately and Owners have to actually do more THINKING on their own.

 

[BrentBlack]

Question for you guys playing 2 QB leagues 12 teams. Seems like you would need 3 QBs to cover the bye weeks. Only 32 teams in the league. Looks like 4 teams end up taking a donut in two games each year.

I think most go to the flex option in a 12 team league.

 

[Koya]

For reference, this is my team (12 teamer)

Peyton Manning

Culpepper

Pennington

Fast Willie

De Foster / DeAngelo W

Ahman Green

Wali Lundy

Driver

Horn

Matt Jones

Mi Clayton (my fav pick of the draft, taken in the 10th)

Travis Taylor

Samie Parker

Greg Jennings

Heath Miller

 

[Koya]

Question for you guys playing 2 QB leagues 12 teams. Seems like you would need 3 QBs to cover the bye weeks. Only 32 teams in the league. Looks like 4 teams end up taking a donut in two games each year.

I think most go to the flex option in a 12 team league.

This is what we do, but I have had to start 3 RBs and one QB... it isnt usually pretty. Its not a donut, but I am getting 5-7 points from a third RB when the other guy is getting 10-20 from their QB.

 

[ookook]

Koya, do you use VBD scores at all and what baseline do you use for QBs?

I am afraid I totally disagree that you need to draft a QB from the first 10 that go or you are in trouble. I think this is an illusion and bias, not data-driven.

 

[ookook]

I have never ever seen anyone fail to start a QB and we never use flex. Even in 12 team leagues.

It is called trading.

 

[Chaka]

Question for you guys playing 2 QB leagues 12 teams. Seems like you would need 3 QBs to cover the bye weeks. Only 32 teams in the league. Looks like 4 teams end up taking a donut in two games each year.

12 teams, mandatory start two QBs, max of four roster spots for QBs (min=3).Talk about having to modify your draft strategy.You would be surprised how little this impacts bye weeks though, typically 50+ players start games at QB during the season so there is usually someone on the WW that you can land to cover a bye (if you are paying attention, which this type of league demands if you want to remaind competitive). It also promotes trading in a big way.In a league like this though grabbing Manning early goes a long way towards peace of mind at the QB spot.

 

[Chaka]

Koya, do you use VBD scores at all and what baseline do you use for QBs?I am afraid I totally disagree that you need to draft a QB from the first 10 that go or you are in trouble. I think this is an illusion and bias, not data-driven.

I think VBD needs to be tempered a touch in a mandatory start 2 QB league. I use a VBD baseline in our league (12 teams mandatory start 2 QB) defined by the # of QBs typically taken in the top 100 picks of our draft (Thanks to the DD I have four years of draft data on my league). It gives me a good idea of where the positions are valued for my league.However when you have this type of league you may end up throwing VBD out the window and going early on a 3rd QB, because a solid #3 QB will 1) cover you on your bye weeks & 2) potentially make up for lost draft value with trade potential later in the season.Also I agree that you can be successful in these type of leagues without a QB drafted in the top 10, primarily because most people rank the players differently and a guy that you rank in the top 10 will likely slip in the 15-20 range.

 

[Koya]

Koya, do you use VBD scores at all and what baseline do you use for QBs?I am afraid I totally disagree that you need to draft a QB from the first 10 that go or you are in trouble. I think this is an illusion and bias, not data-driven.

I dont use a strict VBD. I dont crunch numbers - just go off my tiers and how I feel the draft will fill out... According to my tiers, the last of the "really good" QBs (I think I had 9) were Palmer, Culpepper and with less upside, Delhomme. If I didnt take one of those, then I would have waited until later in the draft. But Culp was there and I grabbed him late third. You dont "have" to do anything - and what you do, do, is dependent upon your threshold for risk, your draft slot and how the other owners draft. In this league, if you wait too long, you are not looking at QB 15 but QB 27 - in my book, that could spell a very very long fantasy season in a 12 teamer where you really should start two QBs.If this were another league with different owners or had I a different draft slot (had the 8th pick of 12) then things may have panned out differently.

 

[J-Rock]

Just completed a 2QB league. also start 3WR + Flex + PPR.

1QB in the first round, 0 in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd, 1 in the 4th, 5 in the 5th.

 

[Koya]

Just completed a 2QB league. also start 3WR + Flex + PPR.1QB in the first round, 0 in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd, 1 in the 4th, 5 in the 5th.

I dont know the scoring, but would love to be in that league. Could have waited until the 6th, or grabbed a really top guy in the 5th.That said, most people will want to start 3 RBs and 2 QBs, and your PPR definately takes some emphasis off the QB - which is good imo.I will suggest for our league next year that we look to PPR, maybe for WRs only, to balance things out a bit.

 

[bakes]

Just had my big money (and pride) league draft last night. we have a flex option which lets you use a QB, so it's basically a two QB league.WOW. Every year this draft surprises me. No matter how quickly I expect the QBs to go, they go faster in this crazy runs. Tiers and a half get blown out in a round.9 Qbs taken before the end of the third - usually you would have two and both would have been taken too early. In this league, you best get a QB quick or you are fighting over Drew Brees and Mark Brunell. 22 Qbs GONE by the BEGINNING of the 7th round. Here I am taking Culpepper in the third, wrenching over the fact that I am leaving Moss on the board and knowing my WRs will be a bit weak, but when 8 QBs are already toast and going quick, you have to put aside the "usual" fantasy logic.Anyone else in a two QB or flex QB league find themselves doing things they never thought they would do in a draft? (Like me having Deshaun Foster on my roster )

2qb leagues are very challenging to draft in compared to 1 qb where the drafting is pretty standard and sometimes predictable. In 2qb they fly off the board along with the rb. 16 rb off the board in 2 rounds, and 20+qb in 8 rounds. There are top wr and te available. You can take them and be strong there but then qb or rb suffers. It is hard to have top 10 or even top 15 players at each position. And I am talking 10 team league. Usually good depth is lacking and one position is weak by 1 qb standards. we play 2rb and 3wr. I find it much more interesting to draft and play in 2 qb. It certainly is different.

Ours is a 2 QB/2RB/3WR/K/TE/D PPR league - every year is different. Two years ago there was a RB run and McNabb was sitting there at 2-2. Last year? QB run and I had my choice of Priest and a couple of other backs at 7, and had Tiki there in the 4th. It's much more challenging, to me, to draft in that league because of the balancing act needed - all about finding value.

 

[Tau837]

I still avoid taking a QB until about 10 to 15 are off the board and then I take 2 in a row.

Just because people are running on QBs in 2 QB leagues does NOT mean that is where value is.

There is very little difference between QB10 and QB20, compared to WR10 and WR20.

Similar league, with flex that includes QB. Some sharks, some guppies in this league. Draft and scoring is in the Mock Draft forum: LINK.

My team:

QB - Michael Vick, Brett Favre, Mark Brunell

RB - Ladainian Tomlinson, Reuben Droughns, Tatum Bell, Laurence Maroney, Marion Barber, Wali Lundy

WR - Randy Moss, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards, David Givens, Michael Jenkins

TE - Tony Gonzalez, Vernon Davis

K - Jason Elam

D - Pittsburgh, Miami

I took Vick at 7.1 as the 12th QB taken and Favre at 8.10 as the 19th QB taken.

 

[ookook]

Exactly my point. Vick in the 7th and Brunnel much much later will be find.

The loss at QB fpts each is more than made up by the gains in using 3rd or 4th for RB or WR.

Is fairly straightforward from VBD persepective.

Yet over and over I hear 2 QB league folks say how "crucial" it is to get a top 10 ranked QB early. But it is not actually true.

And just because they are not ranked top 10 does not mean they might not finish their (E. Manning and Bledsoe for me last year).

 

[C-Pod]

Question for you guys playing 2 QB leagues 12 teams. Seems like you would need 3 QBs to cover the bye weeks. Only 32 teams in the league. Looks like 4 teams end up taking a donut in two games each year.

My league uses a flex at the QB/K positions. Required 1 QB and 1 K and then one of your choice. It is not uncommon to see teams use 2 Kickers during Bye week or if they have poor depth at the QB spot.It's now a 10-team league, which means that everyone can feasibly have 3 starting QB's on Kickoff weekend.The league was more interesting back when we were 12 teams strong and there were only 30 or 28 NFL teams. The QB run began very early and you absolutely didn't want it to start right after your last pick.