20+ MLB players to be suspended? Braun, A-Rod? (1 Viewer)

[NCCommish]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

People hitting 75 HRs a year? So.

Everyone in the majors would need to be on them? False.

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

If you really want to rid baseball of something harmful, let's get serious about chewing tobacco. That has more long-term harmful effects than steriods.

 

[B-Deep]

listen, MLB tried to just ignore steroids, the government threatened them

so you can wish for super hero looking small testicled roid freaks bashing 100 homeruns, but it is not going to happen

and if they are not going to allow steroids then by definition people who use them are cheaters and should be hounded from the game

 

[dparker713]

Just when you think Ryan Fraud cannot be a bigger doosh, he reportedly requested support from other players while suggesting the FedEx courier was an anti-semite.

Guy is a collossal scumbag and can't seem to just shut his big fat mouth.

Not sure why I should care if he's a scumbag or a doosh. I only really care if he can crush baseballs and steal bases.

he still has never tested positive, hold on to your belief that he's clean my man!!!!

I honestly don't care if he's clean. I only care if he's suspended.

 

[dparker713]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

 

[dparker713]

listen, MLB tried to just ignore steroids, the government threatened them

so you can wish for super hero looking small testicled roid freaks bashing 100 homeruns, but it is not going to happen

and if they are not going to allow steroids then by definition people who use them are cheaters and should be hounded from the game

No, cheaters should be punished when they are caught and allowed to play when their punishment is served.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

People love making excuses for the NFL while blasting baseball. It's one of the most interesting dynamics in this whole discussion.

 

[B-Deep]

listen, MLB tried to just ignore steroids, the government threatened them

so you can wish for super hero looking small testicled roid freaks bashing 100 homeruns, but it is not going to happen

and if they are not going to allow steroids then by definition people who use them are cheaters and should be hounded from the game

No, cheaters should be punished when they are caught and allowed to play when their punishment is served.

i think they should be ostracized and forced to wear the mark of a red C for their career!

CHEATERS!!!!!

 

[B-Deep]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

People love making excuses for the NFL while blasting baseball. It's one of the most interesting dynamics in this whole discussion.

again, the nfl started testing in 1987

MLB in 2006

those 19 years hurt the MLB perception wise

 

[strykerpks]

listen, MLB tried to just ignore steroids, the government threatened them

so you can wish for super hero looking small testicled roid freaks bashing 100 homeruns, but it is not going to happen

and if they are not going to allow steroids then by definition people who use them are cheaters and should be hounded from the game

No, cheaters should be punished when they are caught and allowed to play when their punishment is served.

i think they should be ostracized and forced to wear the mark of a red C for their career!

CHEATERS!!!!!

Why make them play for the Cubs? That's pretty harsh

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

People love making excuses for the NFL while blasting baseball. It's one of the most interesting dynamics in this whole discussion.

again, the nfl started testing in 1987

MLB in 2006

those 19 years hurt the MLB perception wise

The NFL doesn't have any kind of a testing program, only a fool would think so.

They just started busting guys for amphetamines (addreall) recently.

 

[B-Deep]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

People love making excuses for the NFL while blasting baseball. It's one of the most interesting dynamics in this whole discussion.

again, the nfl started testing in 1987

MLB in 2006

those 19 years hurt the MLB perception wise

The NFL doesn't have any kind of a testing program, only a fool would think so.

They just started busting guys for amphetamines (addreall) recently.

again

19 years before MLB tested for anything the NFL started testing for steroids

then congress got involved and MLB decided to test

in those 19 years, which included a comeback of MLB based on a homerun chase by known users the MLB lost a lot of ground in the public perception arena

while the nfl was testing MLB was promoting

it may not be fair, but that is the reality, in perception even if mlb's testing is more rigorous now that does not gain them the PR they lost

additionally, baseball turns stats into this elevated religion, and many of their most sacred records were eaten up during those 19 years by roid users. Meanwhile the NFL and its fans do not hold records to such a high esteem, and the people who hold those records have not been caught juicing

again that may be unfair, but it is the facts

 

[NCCommish]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

People love making excuses for the NFL while blasting baseball. It's one of the most interesting dynamics in this whole discussion.

Hold up a second here. I am not making excuses for anyone. I was pointing out that the NFL does now have a system in place to try to test for PEDs although the union is dragging it's feet. And I think if the NFL had a situation like Biogenesis they would have to get actively involved. What choice would they have?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

People love making excuses for the NFL while blasting baseball. It's one of the most interesting dynamics in this whole discussion.

Exactly. The NFL is actually worse. And it's worse because we all see it. There isn't a single person that can see these guys that are getting to be 6-7 350 and moving like Jessie Owens who thinks it's normal. It's not. Yet baseball gets attacked. In some ways I understand - baseball's history is just as important as its current and future. Fine. Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day and in doing so destroyed a record that was set down by Babe Ruth and should have never been touched - and it was only touched because Aaron took drugs and got his old body out there for an extra 4 or 5 years at the end of his career when he probably wouldn't have been able to using the medicines of the 1920's and 1930's.

And that argument is stupid, yet it's consistent with the people going after Bonds and ARod today.

 

[NCCommish]

Seems like some baseball guys have their panties in a twist. I guess all these guys getting suspended this pre-season in football are just in our imagination because the NFL does nothing.

 

[Joe Summer]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

 

[B-Deep]

the NFL is no better than MLB, neither wants to care about steroids, but they have to

MLB just took too long to figure out, or admit, that they had to care.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Anyone who thinks steroids should be legal in baseball is just an idiot. People will be hitting 75-85 home runs a year. Every guy int he majors will now NEED to be on them. Then, that bleeds into the minors. High schools will be close behind. Good luck telling 15 year-olds with a dream of playing pro baseball that they should use steroids when they know it's the only chance they have.

Yet we love the NFL and all the stuff those guys take that bleeds down to college and high school. The NFL vs. MLB hypocrisy that we suffer in the arenas of drugs/PED's and competative balance/parity are obscene. Yet we do it all the time and no one seems to give it a second thought.

The NFL is trying to get tougher on PEDs. The union is dragging it's feet. In time the NFL will have a testing regime and punishments that are already written into this bargaining agreement.

The NFL only wants to appear tough. They would never do something like MLB did with Biogensis.

People love making excuses for the NFL while blasting baseball. It's one of the most interesting dynamics in this whole discussion.

Exactly. The NFL is actually worse. And it's worse because we all see it. There isn't a single person that can see these guys that are getting to be 6-7 350 and moving like Jessie Owens who thinks it's normal. It's not. Yet baseball gets attacked. In some ways I understand - baseball's history is just as important as its current and future. Fine. Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day and in doing so destroyed a record that was set down by Babe Ruth and should have never been touched - and it was only touched because Aaron took drugs and got his old body out there for an extra 4 or 5 years at the end of his career when he probably wouldn't have been able to using the medicines of the 1920's and 1930's.

And that argument is stupid, yet it's consistent with the people going after Bonds and ARod today.

Mike Golic has admitted to using steroids. Bill Romanowski never got suspended IIRC and he was a juice head. Arian Foster thinks guys cheat, Emmit Smith and Eric Dickerson were talking about hitting holes and running into guys suspected of taking steroids.

I understand the whole numbers argument, but I don't think that correlates to a conversation about sports having big problems with PEDs. I'm all for finding an edge, and I'm not criticizing those who do it, but it's an across-the-board issue. Everything from the Olympic swimming to football has issues, yet people seemed resigned to only point fingers at baseball.

Bonds and A-Rod were both among the best players in the game BEFORE they did steroids, Bonds numbers before he started were HOF worthy. What ties those two together so closely is that they are both known as jerks, and they both had large contracts (A-rod in particular). BUt Rafeal Palmiero juiced too, so did a bunch of middle relievers and starters pitching to Bonds and A-Rod.

If testing is fair and applied in a logical manner, I say do it. But no one is going to tell me the NFL doesn't have just as many PED users as baseball, then or now. NFL is loaded with juicers, and no one seems to care.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

 

[Limp Ditka]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

Lots of people around here act like the rules have been static for generations and use this foolish argument.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

unpack.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

listen, MLB tried to just ignore steroids, the government threatened them

so you can wish for super hero looking small testicled roid freaks bashing 100 homeruns, but it is not going to happen

and if they are not going to allow steroids then by definition people who use them are cheaters and should be hounded from the game

No, cheaters should be punished when they are caught and allowed to play when their punishment is served.

i think they should be ostracized and forced to wear the mark of a red C for their career!

CHEATERS!!!!!

Why make them play for the Cubs? That's pretty harsh

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Seems like some baseball guys have their panties in a twist. I guess all these guys getting suspended this pre-season in football are just in our imagination because the NFL does nothing.

NFL has just agreed in principle to test for HGH and other poly-steroids, this happened last week. Been away from the internet/radio/TV/Ham radio?

 

[NCCommish]

Seems like some baseball guys have their panties in a twist. I guess all these guys getting suspended this pre-season in football are just in our imagination because the NFL does nothing.

NFL has just agreed in principle to test for HGH and other poly-steroids, this happened last week. Been away from the internet/radio/TV/Ham radio?

Actually it happened when the new contract was written 2 year ago. It has taken this long to get the union to approve how they are going to start doing it. And they have been testing for various products for years. You'll note the people who have been suspended this season or have you been away from internet/radio/TV/Ham radio all this preseason?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

unpack.

There was no testing and MLB was not specific in outlawing any of the substances Bonds and others took. Like Aaron he used something that he thought would give him an advantage, just like so many other players in every sport through the decades. Yet Bonds and others in more recent times, are held to some higher standard.

Canseco for all his crazy, has been right about everything steroid related. He says between 50% and 80% of MLBers used. In Aaron's day all the guys were on speed, Tim Raines was coked up stealing second, McGuire was taking stuff they are trying to sell to old dudes today for low T.

Koufax took cortisone shots just to go on the field, cortisone is still widely used and legal in all sports despite being a degenerative substance that is also a steroid. Lots of double standards in this discussion, from the administrators to the writers to the fans.

 

[Joe Summer]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Seems like some baseball guys have their panties in a twist. I guess all these guys getting suspended this pre-season in football are just in our imagination because the NFL does nothing.

NFL has just agreed in principle to test for HGH and other poly-steroids, this happened last week. Been away from the internet/radio/TV/Ham radio?

Actually it happened when the new contract was written 2 year ago. It has taken this long to get the union to approve how they are going to start doing it. And they have been testing for various products for years. You'll note the people who have been suspended this season or have you been away from internet/radio/TV/Ham radio all this preseason?

So the NFL is testing for HGH then?

The NFL and NFL Players Association continue to move closer to reaching a final deal on testing for human growth hormone, according to an email obtained Thursday by NFL.com's Ian Rapoport and Albert Breer, via a league source, outlining all the areas in which the sides have come to an agreement.

The area in which the sides still disagree, and labeled the "final hurdle," is NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell's power as it relates to the appeals process. The players' union opposes allowing Goodell to "hear appeals for violations other than a positive test," according to the email. League officials believe such limits on Goodell's powers would be inappropriate, per the email.

Here are the areas in which the sides agree, per the email:

The evolution of the NFL:Take a look at how the NFL has evolved from its humble roots, and the efforts being made to ensure it continues to grow.


» Player appeals for a positive result will be heard by "third-party appeals officers with experience in drug-testing matters."

» Random blood testing for HGH will begin the first week of the regular season. Each week, 40 players will be randomly selected for it.

» During the preseason, all players will have blood samples taken. Those samples will be used by experts to advise the NFL and the union "of the numerical value at which a test result should be deemed 'positive.' "

» Once random testing beings during the regular season, players with a positive test will be suspended without pay for four games. A second violation will result in an eight-game suspension.

For the last two years, the NFL has been operating under the drug policy of the 2006 collective bargaining agreement. HGH testing is just one piece of the broader agreement needed.

Both the league and union have held out hope that HGH testing could be in place for the 2013 season

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a legally prescribed pharmaceutical was given to me by the subscribee, that makes it illegal correct? I don't know if all the specific players of the 60s and 70s that got a prescription, but I'm just guessing a lot of the speed was obtained outside the legal channels. Again, lots of grey areas. That's why I say move on and apply across all major professional sports in the U.S., equal standards of use and conduct. Then this conversation completely goes away.

But players will still cheat, because players are inclined to cheat IMO. It's their livelihood and it's

 

[The General]

Still not a huge fan of Alex, but the Red Sox being the judge and jury is a no no. There better be some significant retribution next time.

A-Rod ended up looking sympathetic, if that is at all possible.

Don't worry. ARod will do something shortly that confirms his DBag status. It's in his nature.

 

[B-Deep]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a legally prescribed pharmaceutical was given to me by the subscribee, that makes it illegal correct? I don't know if all the specific players of the 60s and 70s that got a prescription, but I'm just guessing a lot of the speed was obtained outside the legal channels. Again, lots of grey areas. That's why I say move on and apply across all major professional sports in the U.S., equal standards of use and conduct. Then this conversation completely goes away.

But players will still cheat, because players are inclined to cheat IMO. It's their livelihood and it's

how would you apply across all sports?

are you going to have MLB,NBA, NHL, MLBPA, NFLPA, NBAPA, NHLPA all sit on one ginat bargaining session?

it is impossible

these are seperate entitites seperate businesses and they can run them how they see fit

unless you want congress to legislate the PED policies of all sports, and thus overide their CBAs, and good luck with that

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a legally prescribed pharmaceutical was given to me by the subscribee, that makes it illegal correct? I don't know if all the specific players of the 60s and 70s that got a prescription, but I'm just guessing a lot of the speed was obtained outside the legal channels. Again, lots of grey areas. That's why I say move on and apply across all major professional sports in the U.S., equal standards of use and conduct. Then this conversation completely goes away.

But players will still cheat, because players are inclined to cheat IMO. It's their livelihood and it's

how would you apply across all sports?

are you going to have MLB,NBA, NHL, MLBPA, NFLPA, NBAPA, NHLPA all sit on one ginat bargaining session?

it is impossible

these are seperate entitites seperate businesses and they can run them how they see fit

unless you want congress to legislate the PED policies of all sports, and thus overide their CBAs, and good luck with that

Not impossible. Congress tells them to work it out or they'll work it out for them, and they get it done.

 

[B-Deep]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a legally prescribed pharmaceutical was given to me by the subscribee, that makes it illegal correct? I don't know if all the specific players of the 60s and 70s that got a prescription, but I'm just guessing a lot of the speed was obtained outside the legal channels. Again, lots of grey areas. That's why I say move on and apply across all major professional sports in the U.S., equal standards of use and conduct. Then this conversation completely goes away.

But players will still cheat, because players are inclined to cheat IMO. It's their livelihood and it's

how would you apply across all sports?

are you going to have MLB,NBA, NHL, MLBPA, NFLPA, NBAPA, NHLPA all sit on one ginat bargaining session?

it is impossible

these are seperate entitites seperate businesses and they can run them how they see fit

unless you want congress to legislate the PED policies of all sports, and thus overide their CBAs, and good luck with that

Not impossible. Congress tells them to work it out or they'll work it out for them, and they get it done.

PED testing is part of all the separate colelctive bargaining agreements

congress would have to legislate it

and i am betting congress 1) doesn;t care enough 2)won;t agree and 3) doesn;t want to be seen as wasting their time on this

there's really no benefit, if all the sports appear to be making an attempt at being clean who cares if they are all doing it the same way?

 

[Joe Summer]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a legally prescribed pharmaceutical was given to me by the subscribee, that makes it illegal correct?

Yes. But in the '50s and '60s you could actually buy some amphetamines over-the-counter, and it was easy to get a doctor's prescription for just about anything else. That's why I described them as mostly legal.

I don't think steroids were ever in that category of being semi-legal and available over-the-counter (not after the 1980s, at least).

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a legally prescribed pharmaceutical was given to me by the subscribee, that makes it illegal correct?

Yes. But in the '50s and '60s you could actually buy some amphetamines over-the-counter, and it was easy to get a doctor's prescription for just about anything else. That's why I described them as mostly legal.

I don't think steroids were ever in that category of being semi-legal and available over-the-counter (not after the 1980s, at least).

Never been in a GNC, have you?

 

[Mario Kart]

MLB has to tell these guys putting stuff into their bodies is a no-no. It's a liability issue. These guys may have long term injury or shortened lives and they will come back and say MLB allowed us and encoraged is to use them. Then, MLB is on the hook for billions of dollars if many are users. By telling these guys not to do it and by testing them, MLB is doing what it has to to prevent future lawsuits. Plain and simple.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Then I want Hank Aaron removed from the record books. He admitted to using PED's (amphetamins) during his playing days to get himself going every day

Amphetamines were legal back then and they're still legal today if you've got a doctor's prescription and Therapeutic Use Exemption.

And everything Bonds and Clemons were using in their day was not outlawed by baseball. So why the fuss?

They're both grey areas. But in my opinion steroids fall into a darker shade of grey because steroids were still a (mostly) illegal substance, while pharmaceutical amphetamines were a (mostly) legal substance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a legally prescribed pharmaceutical was given to me by the subscribee, that makes it illegal correct?

Yes. But in the '50s and '60s you could actually buy some amphetamines over-the-counter, and it was easy to get a doctor's prescription for just about anything else. That's why I described them as mostly legal.

I don't think steroids were ever in that category of being semi-legal and available over-the-counter (not after the 1980s, at least).

Ephedrine, Andro, Creatine, tons of muscle mixes and other chemicals were...or still are available over-the-counter. A lot of them have just become banned by the various sports.

 

[Snotbubbles]

MLB has to tell these guys putting stuff into their bodies is a no-no. It's a liability issue. These guys may have long term injury or shortened lives and they will come back and say MLB allowed us and encoraged is to use them. Then, MLB is on the hook for billions of dollars if many are users. By telling these guys not to do it and by testing them, MLB is doing what it has to to prevent future lawsuits. Plain and simple.

And to keep their antitrust exemption.

 

[randall146]

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

What do you mean false?

 

[T Bell]

Ryan Braun tried to discredit urine collector by reaching out to fellow MLB playersSun, Aug 18, 2013 10:10 PM EDT


Suspended http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/milMilwaukee Brewers outfielder http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8034Ryan Braun told players around baseball before spring training 2012 that the man who collected his urine that tested positive for synthetic testosterone was anti-Semitic and a Chicago Cubs fan in an effort to gather support throughout the game, sources familiar with the matter told Yahoo! Sports.

Ryan Braun received a 65-game suspension from MLB for his ties to the Biogenesis clinic. (AP)ESPN.com first reported that Braun had reached out to fellow players. While Yahoo! Sports previously reported Braun had contacted Joey Votto and http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7850Troy Tulowitzki, on Monday they denied having any conversations with Braun about test collector Dino Laurenzi Jr.

A number of players with whom Braun spoke, including Brewers teammates, believed the allegations. A source close to Laurenzi said the anti-Semitism allegation is untrue; his fan allegiance is unclear. It added to the backlash against Braun – whose father is Jewish but was not raised in the religion – inside the Milwaukee clubhouse as well as outside following his recent 65-game suspension for his involvement with the Biogenesis clinic. Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp, with whom Braun spoke before spring training, told reporters people in the game felt “betrayed” and that he was “disappointed.”

During spring 2012, Braun avoided a 50-game suspension by winning his appeal on a chain-of-custody error due to faulty protocol in Major League Baseball's drug-testing program. In a news conference upon his arrival at spring training – one he invited non-Brewers players to, though they declined to attend – Braun impugned the league's testing policy and called the collector "very suspicious."

Earlier in the day, a member of Braun's camp had leaked Laurenzi's name in an email to Yahoo! Sports. Laurenzi had kept the sample of Braun's urine stored in his house because there was no FedEx store within a reasonable distance that would ship the sample according to MLB's rules. Braun's lawyers argued successfully that this broke the chain of custody, even though the lab that tested the sample said it had not degraded and was valid.

Upon Braun's suspension less than a month ago for doing business with Biogenesis, which provided PEDs to more than a dozen major league players, a number of major leaguers publicly censured Braun and made calls for stiffer penalties for drug use.

Reports over the weekend indicated Braun has started apologizing to those he lied to and plans on coming clean publicly about his drug use. It is unclear whether he has spoken with Laurenzi.

Braun was sued this week by a former friend named Ralph Sasson, who alleges Braun's agent, Nez Balelo, paid him $5,000 to dig up information on Laurenzi. Sasson also said Braun used PEDs throughout his career at the University of Miami.

 

[Snotbubbles]

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

What do you mean false?

It's false that if steriods were legal you would need them to become a ML player. Ryan Howard can put every single steriod into his body, he still won't be able to hit an offspeed pitch. Likewise, Barry Bonds didn't need steriods to become league MVP. The most important aspects of playing baseball cannot be obtained by using steriods. It's also false that a 15 year old would need steriods to become a ML player even if it were legal for the same reasons.

I will further say that steriods, when regulated properly and cycled correctly have many beneficial effects and that an adult person should be allowed to determine if the benefits outweigh the risks. But by criminalizing them, the US Government has made them more dangerous because now user don't have steriods with a regulated content, have proper blood work and site care or good education on how to cycle them to minimize the risks associated with their use.

 

[dparker713]

God Ryan Braun is a disgusting weasel


Ryan Braun tried to discredit urine collector by reaching out to fellow MLB players

Sun, Aug 18, 2013 10:10 PM EDT
Suspended Milwaukee Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun told players around baseball before spring training 2012 that the man who collected his urine that tested positive for synthetic testosterone was anti-Semitic and a Chicago Cubs fan in an effort to gather support throughout the game, sources familiar with the matter told Yahoo! Sports.

Ryan Braun received a 65-game suspension from MLB for his ties to the Biogenesis clinic. (AP)ESPN.com first reported that Braun had reached out to fellow players. While Yahoo! Sports previously reported Braun had contacted Joey Votto and Troy Tulowitzki, on Monday they denied having any conversations with Braun about test collector Dino Laurenzi Jr.

A number of players with whom Braun spoke, including Brewers teammates, believed the allegations. A source close to Laurenzi said the anti-Semitism allegation is untrue; his fan allegiance is unclear. It added to the backlash against Braun – whose father is Jewish but was not raised in the religion – inside the Milwaukee clubhouse as well as outside following his recent 65-game suspension for his involvement with the Biogenesis clinic. Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp, with whom Braun spoke before spring training, told reporters people in the game felt “betrayed” and that he was “disappointed.”

During spring 2012, Braun avoided a 50-game suspension by winning his appeal on a chain-of-custody error due to faulty protocol in Major League Baseball's drug-testing program. In a news conference upon his arrival at spring training – one he invited non-Brewers players to, though they declined to attend – Braun impugned the league's testing policy and called the collector "very suspicious."

Earlier in the day, a member of Braun's camp had leaked Laurenzi's name in an email to Yahoo! Sports. Laurenzi had kept the sample of Braun's urine stored in his house because there was no FedEx store within a reasonable distance that would ship the sample according to MLB's rules. Braun's lawyers argued successfully that this broke the chain of custody, even though the lab that tested the sample said it had not degraded and was valid.

Upon Braun's suspension less than a month ago for doing business with Biogenesis, which provided PEDs to more than a dozen major league players, a number of major leaguers publicly censured Braun and made calls for stiffer penalties for drug use.

Reports over the weekend indicated Braun has started apologizing to those he lied to and plans on coming clean publicly about his drug use. It is unclear whether he has spoken with Laurenzi.

Braun was sued this week by a former friend named Ralph Sasson, who alleges Braun's agent, Nez Balelo, paid him $5,000 to dig up information on Laurenzi. Sasson also said Braun used PEDs throughout his career at the University of Miami.

You realize you're taking as true an article that admits to earlier shotty reporting in the first paragraph, right?

 

[T Bell]

God Ryan Braun is a disgusting weasel


Ryan Braun tried to discredit urine collector by reaching out to fellow MLB players

Sun, Aug 18, 2013 10:10 PM EDT
Suspended Milwaukee Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun told players around baseball before spring training 2012 that the man who collected his urine that tested positive for synthetic testosterone was anti-Semitic and a Chicago Cubs fan in an effort to gather support throughout the game, sources familiar with the matter told Yahoo! Sports.

Ryan Braun received a 65-game suspension from MLB for his ties to the Biogenesis clinic. (AP)ESPN.com first reported that Braun had reached out to fellow players. While Yahoo! Sports previously reported Braun had contacted Joey Votto and Troy Tulowitzki, on Monday they denied having any conversations with Braun about test collector Dino Laurenzi Jr.

A number of players with whom Braun spoke, including Brewers teammates, believed the allegations. A source close to Laurenzi said the anti-Semitism allegation is untrue; his fan allegiance is unclear. It added to the backlash against Braun – whose father is Jewish but was not raised in the religion – inside the Milwaukee clubhouse as well as outside following his recent 65-game suspension for his involvement with the Biogenesis clinic. Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp, with whom Braun spoke before spring training, told reporters people in the game felt “betrayed” and that he was “disappointed.”

During spring 2012, Braun avoided a 50-game suspension by winning his appeal on a chain-of-custody error due to faulty protocol in Major League Baseball's drug-testing program. In a news conference upon his arrival at spring training – one he invited non-Brewers players to, though they declined to attend – Braun impugned the league's testing policy and called the collector "very suspicious."

Earlier in the day, a member of Braun's camp had leaked Laurenzi's name in an email to Yahoo! Sports. Laurenzi had kept the sample of Braun's urine stored in his house because there was no FedEx store within a reasonable distance that would ship the sample according to MLB's rules. Braun's lawyers argued successfully that this broke the chain of custody, even though the lab that tested the sample said it had not degraded and was valid.

Upon Braun's suspension less than a month ago for doing business with Biogenesis, which provided PEDs to more than a dozen major league players, a number of major leaguers publicly censured Braun and made calls for stiffer penalties for drug use.

Reports over the weekend indicated Braun has started apologizing to those he lied to and plans on coming clean publicly about his drug use. It is unclear whether he has spoken with Laurenzi.

Braun was sued this week by a former friend named Ralph Sasson, who alleges Braun's agent, Nez Balelo, paid him $5,000 to dig up information on Laurenzi. Sasson also said Braun used PEDs throughout his career at the University of Miami.

You realize you're taking as true an article that admits to earlier shotty reporting in the first paragraph, right?

Yes, Ryan, I know that.

 

[Limp Ditka]

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

What do you mean false?

It's false that if steriods were legal you would need them to become a ML player. Ryan Howard can put every single steriod into his body, he still won't be able to hit an offspeed pitch. Likewise, Barry Bonds didn't need steriods to become league MVP. The most important aspects of playing baseball cannot be obtained by using steriods. It's also false that a 15 year old would need steriods to become a ML player even if it were legal for the same reasons.

I will further say that steriods, when regulated properly and cycled correctly have many beneficial effects and that an adult person should be allowed to determine if the benefits outweigh the risks. But by criminalizing them, the US Government has made them more dangerous because now user don't have steriods with a regulated content, have proper blood work and site care or good education on how to cycle them to minimize the risks associated with their use.

Its not about that 15 year old literally needing them or not. Its about what he thinks he needs and what lengths he's willing to go to accomplish his goals, regardless of how unrealistic those goals may be.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

What do you mean false?

Ryan Howard can put every single steriod into his body, he still won't be able to hit an offspeed pitch. Likewise, Barry Bonds didn't need steriods to become league MVP. The most important aspects of playing baseball cannot be obtained by using steriods.

I get so incensed by this ignorant argument. Nobody claims that steroids will help people hit an offspeed pitch. So stop saying stupid stuff like this. What is being said is that when someone on steroids makes contact with said offspeed pitch, it will travel an extra 20-50ft farther than that same person who is not on steroids.

 

[B-Deep]

God Ryan Braun is a disgusting weasel


Ryan Braun tried to discredit urine collector by reaching out to fellow MLB players

Sun, Aug 18, 2013 10:10 PM EDT
Suspended Milwaukee Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun told players around baseball before spring training 2012 that the man who collected his urine that tested positive for synthetic testosterone was anti-Semitic and a Chicago Cubs fan in an effort to gather support throughout the game, sources familiar with the matter told Yahoo! Sports.

Ryan Braun received a 65-game suspension from MLB for his ties to the Biogenesis clinic. (AP)ESPN.com first reported that Braun had reached out to fellow players. While Yahoo! Sports previously reported Braun had contacted Joey Votto and Troy Tulowitzki, on Monday they denied having any conversations with Braun about test collector Dino Laurenzi Jr.

A number of players with whom Braun spoke, including Brewers teammates, believed the allegations. A source close to Laurenzi said the anti-Semitism allegation is untrue; his fan allegiance is unclear. It added to the backlash against Braun – whose father is Jewish but was not raised in the religion – inside the Milwaukee clubhouse as well as outside following his recent 65-game suspension for his involvement with the Biogenesis clinic. Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp, with whom Braun spoke before spring training, told reporters people in the game felt “betrayed” and that he was “disappointed.”

During spring 2012, Braun avoided a 50-game suspension by winning his appeal on a chain-of-custody error due to faulty protocol in Major League Baseball's drug-testing program. In a news conference upon his arrival at spring training – one he invited non-Brewers players to, though they declined to attend – Braun impugned the league's testing policy and called the collector "very suspicious."

Earlier in the day, a member of Braun's camp had leaked Laurenzi's name in an email to Yahoo! Sports. Laurenzi had kept the sample of Braun's urine stored in his house because there was no FedEx store within a reasonable distance that would ship the sample according to MLB's rules. Braun's lawyers argued successfully that this broke the chain of custody, even though the lab that tested the sample said it had not degraded and was valid.

Upon Braun's suspension less than a month ago for doing business with Biogenesis, which provided PEDs to more than a dozen major league players, a number of major leaguers publicly censured Braun and made calls for stiffer penalties for drug use.

Reports over the weekend indicated Braun has started apologizing to those he lied to and plans on coming clean publicly about his drug use. It is unclear whether he has spoken with Laurenzi.

Braun was sued this week by a former friend named Ralph Sasson, who alleges Braun's agent, Nez Balelo, paid him $5,000 to dig up information on Laurenzi. Sasson also said Braun used PEDs throughout his career at the University of Miami.

You realize you're taking as true an article that admits to earlier shotty reporting in the first paragraph, right?

not really

it just says the players denied he reache out to them, the players could be lying or changing their story

 

[B-Deep]

you know

like ryan braun has done about a dozen times

 

[T Bell]

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

What do you mean false?

Ryan Howard can put every single steriod into his body, he still won't be able to hit an offspeed pitch. Likewise, Barry Bonds didn't need steriods to become league MVP. The most important aspects of playing baseball cannot be obtained by using steriods.

I get so incensed by this ignorant argument. Nobody claims that steroids will help people hit an offspeed pitch. So stop saying stupid stuff like this. What is being said is that when someone on steroids makes contact with said offspeed pitch, it will travel an extra 20-50ft farther than that same person who is not on steroids.

Some PED's are known to improve reflexes, eye-hand coordination, even concentration such that they may well make hitting an off-speed pitch easier. It isn't all strength.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

What do you mean false?

Ryan Howard can put every single steriod into his body, he still won't be able to hit an offspeed pitch. Likewise, Barry Bonds didn't need steriods to become league MVP. The most important aspects of playing baseball cannot be obtained by using steriods.

I get so incensed by this ignorant argument. Nobody claims that steroids will help people hit an offspeed pitch. So stop saying stupid stuff like this. What is being said is that when someone on steroids makes contact with said offspeed pitch, it will travel an extra 20-50ft farther than that same person who is not on steroids.

Some PED's are known to improve reflexes, eye-hand coordination, even concentration such that they may well make hitting an off-speed pitch easier. It isn't all strength.

In many cases its a matter of recovery from injury. In the case of professional cycling, where every ounce of weight is controlled, adding bulk is the last thing they want. For most athletes, the use of PEDs has nothing to do with adding muscle mass.

 

[dparker713]

God Ryan Braun is a disgusting weasel


Ryan Braun tried to discredit urine collector by reaching out to fellow MLB players

Sun, Aug 18, 2013 10:10 PM EDT
Suspended Milwaukee Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun told players around baseball before spring training 2012 that the man who collected his urine that tested positive for synthetic testosterone was anti-Semitic and a Chicago Cubs fan in an effort to gather support throughout the game, sources familiar with the matter told Yahoo! Sports.

Ryan Braun received a 65-game suspension from MLB for his ties to the Biogenesis clinic. (AP)ESPN.com first reported that Braun had reached out to fellow players. While Yahoo! Sports previously reported Braun had contacted Joey Votto and Troy Tulowitzki, on Monday they denied having any conversations with Braun about test collector Dino Laurenzi Jr.

A number of players with whom Braun spoke, including Brewers teammates, believed the allegations. A source close to Laurenzi said the anti-Semitism allegation is untrue; his fan allegiance is unclear. It added to the backlash against Braun – whose father is Jewish but was not raised in the religion – inside the Milwaukee clubhouse as well as outside following his recent 65-game suspension for his involvement with the Biogenesis clinic. Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp, with whom Braun spoke before spring training, told reporters people in the game felt “betrayed” and that he was “disappointed.”

During spring 2012, Braun avoided a 50-game suspension by winning his appeal on a chain-of-custody error due to faulty protocol in Major League Baseball's drug-testing program. In a news conference upon his arrival at spring training – one he invited non-Brewers players to, though they declined to attend – Braun impugned the league's testing policy and called the collector "very suspicious."

Earlier in the day, a member of Braun's camp had leaked Laurenzi's name in an email to Yahoo! Sports. Laurenzi had kept the sample of Braun's urine stored in his house because there was no FedEx store within a reasonable distance that would ship the sample according to MLB's rules. Braun's lawyers argued successfully that this broke the chain of custody, even though the lab that tested the sample said it had not degraded and was valid.

Upon Braun's suspension less than a month ago for doing business with Biogenesis, which provided PEDs to more than a dozen major league players, a number of major leaguers publicly censured Braun and made calls for stiffer penalties for drug use.

Reports over the weekend indicated Braun has started apologizing to those he lied to and plans on coming clean publicly about his drug use. It is unclear whether he has spoken with Laurenzi.

Braun was sued this week by a former friend named Ralph Sasson, who alleges Braun's agent, Nez Balelo, paid him $5,000 to dig up information on Laurenzi. Sasson also said Braun used PEDs throughout his career at the University of Miami.

You realize you're taking as true an article that admits to earlier shotty reporting in the first paragraph, right?

not really

it just says the players denied he reache out to them, the players could be lying or changing their story

Actually, it is crappy reporting. If you have a source claiming someone did something, you should try to get a comment from that person on the record before running the story.

 

[dparker713]

As for 15 year olds being on steriods? Also false.

What do you mean false?

Ryan Howard can put every single steriod into his body, he still won't be able to hit an offspeed pitch. Likewise, Barry Bonds didn't need steriods to become league MVP. The most important aspects of playing baseball cannot be obtained by using steriods.

I get so incensed by this ignorant argument. Nobody claims that steroids will help people hit an offspeed pitch. So stop saying stupid stuff like this. What is being said is that when someone on steroids makes contact with said offspeed pitch, it will travel an extra 20-50ft farther than that same person who is not on steroids.

Care to cite the study that claims 20-50 ft can be added to a ball's flight through the use of PEDs?