2006 Hall of Fame class (1 Viewer)

[kingmalaki]

Once again, Art Monk gets totally screwed because of one man, Peter "I'm a total incomptent hack" King, who with his typical New York bias, refuses to vote for anyone from the Redskins of the 1980s. 

When the Pro Football Hall of Fame opens up the "stuck around for endless seasons compiling very average statistics" wing, then Art Monk will be a lock for enshrinement.

They already did. You weren't aware that Moon got in? If this guy dosen't play in the run and shoot and didn't put up artificially high stats for a couple years we are not even talking about him right now. I watched Moon a lot and I never recall thinking there was anything special about him. Anyone that is not just purely looking at end of career stats and actually watched him play knows that he was a good QB, but never special/great. IMO good players do not belong in the HOF. But, that is the point where we are at with the pro football HOF. Any HOF that has a minimum number of guys that must get in each year dosen't hold much weight.

First, Moon was a starter for 15 of his 17 seasons. He only played in the run-and-shoot for four seasons (1990-93).

Sorry, but I think his longetivity was more of a factor to his high statistics than the R&S system. Either way, it's silly to say he has artificially high stats due to the R&S as he only played in it for 4 out of 17 seasons. But hey, don't let facts get in the way....

My point is that his stats are very ordinary the other years when he didn't play in the run and shoot. And I don't think guys should get in just becuase they played a long time and compiled large stat lines. No one in here has yet to come up with a great/signature Warren Moon game or moment. He was never great and I don't think merely good players should be in a HOF. Do you think he was a great player?

Are these stats ordinary for the following seasons NOT in the R&S?

| Passing | Rushing |

+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+

| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |

+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+

| 1988 hou | 11 | 160 294 54.4 2327 7.9 17 8 | 33 88 5 |

| 1989 hou | 16 | 280 464 60.3 3631 7.8 23 14 | 70 268 4 |

| 1995 min | 16 | 377 606 62.2 4228 7.0 33 14 | 33 82 0 |

| 1997 sea | 15 | 313 528 59.3 3678 7.0 25 16 | 17 40 1 |

Again, those are numbers without a stud RB or WR. Most HOF QB's had more offensive help than Moon did.

A closer look at your four examples from above.

In '88 & '89, Moon threw to Duncan, Hill, Givens and Jeffires. Possibly the best quartet of WRs who were ever on the same field at the same time.

In 1995, Moon had Robert Smith as his RB. The same Robert Smith who led the NFC in rushing. He also has Cris Carter and Jake Reed as his receivers.

In 1997, Moon's primary RB was Chris Warren, who had a 1500+ yard season under his belt. That year, he also had Joey Galloway, who was a very dangerous WR.

Let's not make it sound like he was surrounded by the 1976 Buccaneers.

I never said Moon played with scrubs, but he didn't play with the HOF WR's and RB's like other championship winning QB's (at least the ones with HOF contention). All of the HOF QB's from Moons era that won titles had more offensive help than Moon. They had HOF WR's and RB's. Moon didn't. Please don't try to compare the help Moon had to players like Rice, Irvin, Emmit, Craig, T.Davis, S.Sharpe, etc.

And if you think Duncan, Hill, Givens and Jeffries are the best WR's on the field at once, you didn't watch much Oilers football.

I said they were the best FOURSOME on the field at the same time.

Care to point out a better 4-wide set that you've seen?

I really can't. Then again, how often are 4 WR's on the field at once?

Would you take that foursome over Rice, Taylor, Craig & Jones? What about Irvin, Harper, Novacek and Emmit? Rod Smith, Sharpe and T.Davis? Marino's WR's when he went to the SB? Holt, Bruce and Faulk? I didn't think so....

How 'bout naming 4 better WIDE RECEIVERS who played at the same time.

I didn't think so....

I can't, but do I really need to? A WR is simply a receiving threat. Rice, Taylor & Jones > those 4 Oiler receivers. They don't need a 4th player to make them better. Irvin, Harper & Novacek > those 4 Oiler receivers. Would you honestly pick that Oilers 4-some over the tandems I just mentioned? I didn't think so.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Montana lost when he left all the talent in San Fran.

Montana lost what?

As in he didn't win a championship...the thing that you need a talented team for (in football). This is what folks are bashing Moon for (and other QB's like Marino). There is a big difference between passing to Haywood Jeffries and Jerry Rice.

Montana won 2 playoff games as a Chief. That's only one less playoff win than Moon had his whole career.

 

[kingmalaki]

Montana lost when he left all the talent in San Fran.

Montana lost what?

As in he didn't win a championship...the thing that you need a talented team for (in football). This is what folks are bashing Moon for (and other QB's like Marino). There is a big difference between passing to Haywood Jeffries and Jerry Rice.

Montana won 2 playoff games as a Chief. That's only one less playoff win than Moon had his whole career.

Yes, but he didn't win a SB. His skills as a QB didn't diminish that much. However, his team did.

 

[Urinal Mint]

And Drew Pearson.

This Cowboy fan is very happy the Big Cat got in the Hall.

To the person who called him a stiff

Rayfield was comparably at Walter Jones current level for 7 straight years. No other tackle in the NFL played in the second level like the Big Cat. He was a beast.

Now if we just get Bob Hayes in the Hall...

 

[Newman]

Interesting follow-up on Moon. One of the guys in the room, Rick Gosselin from the Dallas Morning News, indicated that the hook for Moon was in his pioneering role as a black QB. That's what Gosselin thinks, based on discussions with other voters, put him over the top.

 

[Don Quixote]

Interesting follow-up on Moon. One of the guys in the room, Rick Gosselin from the Dallas Morning News, indicated that the hook for Moon was in his pioneering role as a black QB. That's what Gosselin thinks, based on discussions with other voters, put him over the top.

How long until Rush Limbaugh picks up on this?

 

[Koya]

While I still don't believe Moon should be in here, I heard a compelling arguement today. It has something to do with the pioneering aspect.

Under almost any circumstance (and any, until now) I would completely discount any CFL career. What you do in the NFL is what counts, exclusively.

However, because of the stigma of the "black QB" when Moon broke into the league, it is a reality that his talent was overlooked because of color (at least to a large degree).

Had Moon started in the NFL, how impressive would his numbers have been THEN? It is not as if he was Flutie who didnt really fit a mold or have the skill level of other guys but eventually proved he could be a winning QB - this is a guy with a great arm, who did a LOT of damage, but was overlooked because of the time he played.

When you consider that he broke through and was something of a pioneer, I think that ads considerably to his credentials.

Even so, Thurman should have made it before him. Then Irvin and Monk. Then Moon.

 

[dcgangstas]

I've thought from the start that Warren Moon was a lock for first ballot, especially since it was clear Aikman was getting in.

That was the perfect entry for a member of the voting committee to say, "Okay, look at Aikman's numbers, and look at Moon's". "Moon's got 17,000 more passing yards, and 123 more passing TDs". Mike Wilbon or John Clayton could make that point to the committee, and he's IN.