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2007 Cleveland Browns Thread (1 Viewer)

Hey Boxer,What do you think of Weis coming back at Quinn accuracy critics by basically saying they shouldn't assume the WRs were always in proper position? Were WRs like McNight and Jeff S. poor route runners, or not consistant? Or is Weis just sticking up for his QB in any way shape or form? It's not like Quinn completed under 60% the past two years.Heard that, I think, from a Romeo/Savage presser draft day weekend.
My impression was that Samardzia was a pretty sharp route runner. No one else stuck out as being either too good or too bad in that department. I'm certain the blame should probably be shared equally...which is to say I don't think it has a greater or lesser effect on his accuracy numbers - at least in a material way. I don't get his accuracy critics, period so I'm not certain why we're apologizing. Quinn has solid accuracy numbers and anyone who's ever watched him play knows that when given time, he has pinpoint accuracy.
 
Hey Boxer,What do you think of Weis coming back at Quinn accuracy critics by basically saying they shouldn't assume the WRs were always in proper position? Were WRs like McNight and Jeff S. poor route runners, or not consistant? Or is Weis just sticking up for his QB in any way shape or form? It's not like Quinn completed under 60% the past two years.Heard that, I think, from a Romeo/Savage presser draft day weekend.
My impression was that Samardzia was a pretty sharp route runner. No one else stuck out as being either too good or too bad in that department. I'm certain the blame should probably be shared equally...which is to say I don't think it has a greater or lesser effect on his accuracy numbers - at least in a material way. I don't get his accuracy critics, period so I'm not certain why we're apologizing. Quinn has solid accuracy numbers and anyone who's ever watched him play knows that when given time, he has pinpoint accuracy.
I'm not sure I'd call it apologizing, but it's more of shutting the critics up a bit. If the WRs are not in the right spot on timing routes, etc, more than they are, that could hurt numbers. Like you said, it probably evens itself out over the long haul, maybe QBs in general could have another % or two in the positive direction. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
Browns to cut lineman Andruzzi

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot

May 02, 2007 12:00PM

Cleveland.com

Browns starting left guard Joe Andruzzi will be cut today, a source close to the Browns said.

Andruzzi, who was set to make $1.5 million this season and is signed through 2008, has been the Browns starting left guard since he was signed as an unrestricted free agent from the Patriots in 2005. Andruzzi, a 10-year pro, was a favorite of coach Romeo Crennel's both on and

off the field because of his great attitude and work ethic.

Andruzzi, who battled through a knee injury last season, became expendable because the Browns signed guard Eric Steinbach and Seth McKinney in free agency. They also have second-year pro Isaac Sowells competing for a job.

Andruzzi was originally signed by the Browns to a four-year deal worth $9 million in 2005.
This doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. Maybe McKinney is healthy, but isn't that a big IF? Depth is a good thing and 1.5M isn't that hefty as insurance for one year, then you could cut him next offseason. And Shafer wants out on top of that.
 
Bobcat10 said:
wadegarrett said:
Browns to cut lineman Andruzzi

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot

May 02, 2007 12:00PM

Cleveland.com

Browns starting left guard Joe Andruzzi will be cut today, a source close to the Browns said.

Andruzzi, who was set to make $1.5 million this season and is signed through 2008, has been the Browns starting left guard since he was signed as an unrestricted free agent from the Patriots in 2005. Andruzzi, a 10-year pro, was a favorite of coach Romeo Crennel's both on and

off the field because of his great attitude and work ethic.

Andruzzi, who battled through a knee injury last season, became expendable because the Browns signed guard Eric Steinbach and Seth McKinney in free agency. They also have second-year pro Isaac Sowells competing for a job.

Andruzzi was originally signed by the Browns to a four-year deal worth $9 million in 2005.
This doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. Maybe McKinney is healthy, but isn't that a big IF? Depth is a good thing and 1.5M isn't that hefty as insurance for one year, then you could cut him next offseason. And Shafer wants out on top of that.
I think it's more of a move to develop some younger guys. We have tons of oline men on the roster and Andruzzi clearly showed he is on the downside of his career. I don't think he's any better than Sowells at this point and we can't keep everyone we have now. Someone has to go, might as well be the 31 year old declining guard.Shaffer however should shut his pie hole. Is he worried that he'll have to compete to earn a starting spot? Tucker is no lock at RT and Thomas has yet to put on the uniform. He should suck it up and compete or switch to RG for this year. No way I'd take the cap hit for that turd. :(

 
Bobcat10 said:
wadegarrett said:
Browns to cut lineman Andruzzi

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot

May 02, 2007 12:00PM

Cleveland.com

Browns starting left guard Joe Andruzzi will be cut today, a source close to the Browns said.

Andruzzi, who was set to make $1.5 million this season and is signed through 2008, has been the Browns starting left guard since he was signed as an unrestricted free agent from the Patriots in 2005. Andruzzi, a 10-year pro, was a favorite of coach Romeo Crennel's both on and

off the field because of his great attitude and work ethic.

Andruzzi, who battled through a knee injury last season, became expendable because the Browns signed guard Eric Steinbach and Seth McKinney in free agency. They also have second-year pro Isaac Sowells competing for a job.

Andruzzi was originally signed by the Browns to a four-year deal worth $9 million in 2005.
This doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. Maybe McKinney is healthy, but isn't that a big IF? Depth is a good thing and 1.5M isn't that hefty as insurance for one year, then you could cut him next offseason. And Shafer wants out on top of that.
I think it's more of a move to develop some younger guys. We have tons of oline men on the roster and Andruzzi clearly showed he is on the downside of his career. I don't think he's any better than Sowells at this point and we can't keep everyone we have now. Someone has to go, might as well be the 31 year old declining guard.
I understand that about Sowells. I've also heard some good things about Butler. But they should be on the team whether we have Andruzzi or not. Hopefully that means they have enough confidence in him to start when McKinney goes down.
 
Bobcat10 said:
wadegarrett said:
Browns to cut lineman Andruzzi

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot

May 02, 2007 12:00PM

Cleveland.com

Browns starting left guard Joe Andruzzi will be cut today, a source close to the Browns said.

Andruzzi, who was set to make $1.5 million this season and is signed through 2008, has been the Browns starting left guard since he was signed as an unrestricted free agent from the Patriots in 2005. Andruzzi, a 10-year pro, was a favorite of coach Romeo Crennel's both on and

off the field because of his great attitude and work ethic.

Andruzzi, who battled through a knee injury last season, became expendable because the Browns signed guard Eric Steinbach and Seth McKinney in free agency. They also have second-year pro Isaac Sowells competing for a job.

Andruzzi was originally signed by the Browns to a four-year deal worth $9 million in 2005.
This doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. Maybe McKinney is healthy, but isn't that a big IF? Depth is a good thing and 1.5M isn't that hefty as insurance for one year, then you could cut him next offseason. And Shafer wants out on top of that.
I think it's more of a move to develop some younger guys. We have tons of oline men on the roster and Andruzzi clearly showed he is on the downside of his career. I don't think he's any better than Sowells at this point and we can't keep everyone we have now. Someone has to go, might as well be the 31 year old declining guard.
I understand that about Sowells. I've also heard some good things about Butler. But they should be on the team whether we have Andruzzi or not. Hopefully that means they have enough confidence in him to start when McKinney goes down.
Andruzzi overstayed his welcome by two years. He came in not as good as advertised and quickly went downhill. He was abismal last year. Honestly the guy is washed up. The signing of Eric Stienbach took Joe's starting job away, Joe was not a developmental guy who was going to get better, and the deathknell was the veteran McKinney signing by Savage which meant McKinney was the veteran backup/safety net for depth and that Joe was Gonzo.This is not a loss in the least bit. Shaffer could be as the plan was to move Kevin to the right guard or tackle position. I have cocerns over Tucker. Sowells got injured before he really had a chance to be properly evaluated but they've had him for over a year now AND they already evaluated him coming out of college last year so if Savage didn't take a flyer on at least one late round interior offensive lineman then I think he's comfy with, Tucker/Sowells/McKinney and potentially Bently re-entering the picture this year. If not then June 1st cuts will offer far better than Joe Andruzzi.

 
Bobcat10 said:
wadegarrett said:
Browns to cut lineman Andruzzi

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot

May 02, 2007 12:00PM

Cleveland.com

Browns starting left guard Joe Andruzzi will be cut today, a source close to the Browns said.

Andruzzi, who was set to make $1.5 million this season and is signed through 2008, has been the Browns starting left guard since he was signed as an unrestricted free agent from the Patriots in 2005. Andruzzi, a 10-year pro, was a favorite of coach Romeo Crennel's both on and

off the field because of his great attitude and work ethic.

Andruzzi, who battled through a knee injury last season, became expendable because the Browns signed guard Eric Steinbach and Seth McKinney in free agency. They also have second-year pro Isaac Sowells competing for a job.

Andruzzi was originally signed by the Browns to a four-year deal worth $9 million in 2005.
This doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. Maybe McKinney is healthy, but isn't that a big IF? Depth is a good thing and 1.5M isn't that hefty as insurance for one year, then you could cut him next offseason. And Shafer wants out on top of that.
I think it's more of a move to develop some younger guys. We have tons of oline men on the roster and Andruzzi clearly showed he is on the downside of his career. I don't think he's any better than Sowells at this point and we can't keep everyone we have now. Someone has to go, might as well be the 31 year old declining guard.
I understand that about Sowells. I've also heard some good things about Butler. But they should be on the team whether we have Andruzzi or not. Hopefully that means they have enough confidence in him to start when McKinney goes down.
Andruzzi overstayed his welcome by two years. He came in not as good as advertised and quickly went downhill. He was abismal last year. Honestly the guy is washed up. The signing of Eric Stienbach took Joe's starting job away, Joe was not a developmental guy who was going to get better, and the deathknell was the veteran McKinney signing by Savage which meant McKinney was the veteran backup/safety net for depth and that Joe was Gonzo.This is not a loss in the least bit. Shaffer could be as the plan was to move Kevin to the right guard or tackle position. I have cocerns over Tucker. Sowells got injured before he really had a chance to be properly evaluated but they've had him for over a year now AND they already evaluated him coming out of college last year so if Savage didn't take a flyer on at least one late round interior offensive lineman then I think he's comfy with, Tucker/Sowells/McKinney and potentially Bently re-entering the picture this year. If not then June 1st cuts will offer far better than Joe Andruzzi.
Shaffer won't ever play guard. It's LT, RT, or bench for him.
 
wadegarrett said:
Shaffer won't ever play guard. It's LT, RT, or bench for him.
You might want to tell Terry Pluto that.http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=149&p=2&a...d2%26c%3d641237

... Q: What about Kevin Shaffer wanting to be traded?

A: I'd tell the former left tackle that it's time to learn right guard, where he's needed. Or perhaps right tackle, if Ryan Tucker has another emotional setback. I'm not trading Shaffer because Thomas will take his left tackle spot. I want all the linemen I can get.
You might also want to talk to Romeo Crennel and Shaffer's agent because Crennell states that Shaffer could move to right guard. Shaffer and his agent went public with the trade demand stating that Kevin will not right gaurd but is an OLT yet could play ORT. His agent would not have gone public with a trade deman unless they were certain that Thomas was a shoe-in to win the OLT position and see the Browns pushing Shaffer to play right guard.http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/203638

During the draft, Savage and coach Romeo Crennel told reporters Thomas would have the opportunity to win the starting job. Crennel also said Shaffer could possibly compete for the starting job at right guard, which is open.

His agent told the Plain Dealer that wasn't an option.

"I'm sure Kevin would prefer to remain at left tackle and if not there, then right tackle," Herman said. "And if it wasn't meant to be there, no hard feelings, and he'd prefer to move on and play somewhere else. But it takes two to tango."
Shaffer appeared to be penciled in as the starter at right guard till the trade demand became public. At ORT and the Browns appear to be counting on Tucker and/or Butler. Shaffer got the big signing bonus but his salary is less than $900,000 this year. He carries a cap hit over $6 million I believe. On draft day we were asking for a fourth this year or a third next year and got turned down by the Giants.

Right now we have him and he is under the impression that JT is the OLT and that he is not in the running at ORT and Romeo clearly says the open job on the line is ORG and that Kevin would compete for that open job so that is why he asked/demanded a trade.

 
Shaffer is really showing some brass ones here. Asking for a trade? After that performance last year? Shaffer better shut the heck up, and continue to collect his inflated paychecks.

Don't want to play RG? For that money, if they throw you some pom-poms and a miniskirt, you better start dancing, buddy. My favorite was the agent saying the Browns can afford the $8 million cap hit. He's got bigger ones than Shaffer.

 
Shaffer is really showing some brass ones here. Asking for a trade? After that performance last year? Shaffer better shut the heck up, and continue to collect his inflated paychecks. Don't want to play RG? For that money, if they throw you some pom-poms and a miniskirt, you better start dancing, buddy. My favorite was the agent saying the Browns can afford the $8 million cap hit. He's got bigger ones than Shaffer.
I have to agree with this. No way in hell I'd take that cap hit unless someone is offering some serious draft picks.If that doesn't happen the Browns should say "Hey, couldn't get the picks to cover your cap hit. Suck it up and compete or ride the pine." What's he gona do sit out? Not play? Ya that's gona make a team want you on their roster in 2008.The more he #####es the more it hurts his value.
 
wadegarrett said:
Shaffer won't ever play guard. It's LT, RT, or bench for him.
You might want to tell Terry Pluto that.http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=149&p=2&a...d2%26c%3d641237

... Q: What about Kevin Shaffer wanting to be traded?

A: I'd tell the former left tackle that it's time to learn right guard, where he's needed. Or perhaps right tackle, if Ryan Tucker has another emotional setback. I'm not trading Shaffer because Thomas will take his left tackle spot. I want all the linemen I can get.
You might also want to talk to Romeo Crennel and Shaffer's agent because Crennell states that Shaffer could move to right guard. Shaffer and his agent went public with the trade demand stating that Kevin will not right gaurd but is an OLT yet could play ORT. His agent would not have gone public with a trade deman unless they were certain that Thomas was a shoe-in to win the OLT position and see the Browns pushing Shaffer to play right guard.http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/203638

During the draft, Savage and coach Romeo Crennel told reporters Thomas would have the opportunity to win the starting job. Crennel also said Shaffer could possibly compete for the starting job at right guard, which is open.

His agent told the Plain Dealer that wasn't an option.

"I'm sure Kevin would prefer to remain at left tackle and if not there, then right tackle," Herman said. "And if it wasn't meant to be there, no hard feelings, and he'd prefer to move on and play somewhere else. But it takes two to tango."
Shaffer appeared to be penciled in as the starter at right guard till the trade demand became public. At ORT and the Browns appear to be counting on Tucker and/or Butler. Shaffer got the big signing bonus but his salary is less than $900,000 this year. He carries a cap hit over $6 million I believe. On draft day we were asking for a fourth this year or a third next year and got turned down by the Giants.

Right now we have him and he is under the impression that JT is the OLT and that he is not in the running at ORT and Romeo clearly says the open job on the line is ORG and that Kevin would compete for that open job so that is why he asked/demanded a trade.
You might want to talk to Phil Savage. He said this morning on WTAM Shaffer won't play RG.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
wadegarrett said:
Shaffer won't ever play guard. It's LT, RT, or bench for him.
You might want to tell Terry Pluto that.http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=149&p=2&a...d2%26c%3d641237

... Q: What about Kevin Shaffer wanting to be traded?

A: I'd tell the former left tackle that it's time to learn right guard, where he's needed. Or perhaps right tackle, if Ryan Tucker has another emotional setback. I'm not trading Shaffer because Thomas will take his left tackle spot. I want all the linemen I can get.
You might also want to talk to Romeo Crennel and Shaffer's agent because Crennell states that Shaffer could move to right guard. Shaffer and his agent went public with the trade demand stating that Kevin will not right gaurd but is an OLT yet could play ORT. His agent would not have gone public with a trade deman unless they were certain that Thomas was a shoe-in to win the OLT position and see the Browns pushing Shaffer to play right guard.http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/203638

During the draft, Savage and coach Romeo Crennel told reporters Thomas would have the opportunity to win the starting job. Crennel also said Shaffer could possibly compete for the starting job at right guard, which is open.

His agent told the Plain Dealer that wasn't an option.

"I'm sure Kevin would prefer to remain at left tackle and if not there, then right tackle," Herman said. "And if it wasn't meant to be there, no hard feelings, and he'd prefer to move on and play somewhere else. But it takes two to tango."
Shaffer appeared to be penciled in as the starter at right guard till the trade demand became public. At ORT and the Browns appear to be counting on Tucker and/or Butler. Shaffer got the big signing bonus but his salary is less than $900,000 this year. He carries a cap hit over $6 million I believe. On draft day we were asking for a fourth this year or a third next year and got turned down by the Giants.

Right now we have him and he is under the impression that JT is the OLT and that he is not in the running at ORT and Romeo clearly says the open job on the line is ORG and that Kevin would compete for that open job so that is why he asked/demanded a trade.
You might want to talk to Phil Savage. He said this morning on WTAM Shaffer won't play RG.
Was going to say the exact same thing.Savage was very clear on this point. Obviously things could change, but that is not how Savage is looking at things. He actually said Tucker could move inside to RG.

 
Most interesting thing regarding Savage's weekly call to WTAM this morning was his pre-draft Thomas/Quinn angle.

He said a week before the draft he drew up a scenario at his home where he'd get both players. He's said all along that this was wishful thinking, but...

He found that scratch piece of paper after the draft in his pocket. Thomas at #3, Quinn at #7, AND Wright at #36.

Wonder what he had giving up to Minny to get #7 if he still had #36. Braylon and next year's #1?

Still ended up with his guys. :thumbup:

 
Browns invite nine free agents to minicamp

Posted by Tony Grossi

Cleveland.com

May 03, 2007 13:40PM

The Browns signed nine undrafted free agents and invited another 34 to their weekend minicamp on a tryout basis.

The signed free agents are:

Arizona State kicker Jesse Ainsworth, Arkansas-Pine Bluff fullback Charles Ali, Toledo linebacker Mike Alston, Wooster offensive tackle Rick Drushal, Vanderbilt linebacker Funtaine Hunter, Tennessee State receiver Mike Mason, Miami running back Tyrone Moss, McNeese Sate offensive tackle Brent Pousson and Iowa State center Scott Stephenson.

The Browns did not release the names of the 34 tryout players.

Pending the passing of physical exams, these players will join the Browns' 2007 draft picks at minicamp beginning Friday. Practices are not open to the public.
 
Most interesting thing regarding Savage's weekly call to WTAM this morning was his pre-draft Thomas/Quinn angle.

He said a week before the draft he drew up a scenario at his home where he'd get both players. He's said all along that this was wishful thinking, but...

He found that scratch piece of paper after the draft in his pocket. Thomas at #3, Quinn at #7, AND Wright at #36.

Wonder what he had giving up to Minny to get #7 if he still had #36. Braylon and next year's #1?

Still ended up with his guys. :rolleyes:
Definitely next year's No. 1. Not sure about Edwards though.
 
Most interesting thing regarding Savage's weekly call to WTAM this morning was his pre-draft Thomas/Quinn angle.

He said a week before the draft he drew up a scenario at his home where he'd get both players. He's said all along that this was wishful thinking, but...

He found that scratch piece of paper after the draft in his pocket. Thomas at #3, Quinn at #7, AND Wright at #36.

Wonder what he had giving up to Minny to get #7 if he still had #36. Braylon and next year's #1?

Still ended up with his guys. :rolleyes:
Definitely next year's No. 1. Not sure about Edwards though.
What else then? The Braylon rumors were out there and we know he was unwilling to give up Kam. I don't see what else could entice Minny especially if they were not getting our 2nd rounder. An '08 2nd rounder?Also, Kiper had a good thing or two to say about Brandon McDonald in a radio interview I heard yesterday.

What I've recently found out, he was a former WR and is the cousin of Steve McNair and C. Buckhalter.

 
If Shaffer wants to play, he will play where they want him to play. He has 0 leverage. He will get fined if he tries not reporting, sitting out, etc. He just turned 27, and will only be in his early 30's when his contract runs out, if he's still around then. Let him ride the pine.

 
hopefully these are just growing pains, but one of the big knocks on Savage coming in was that he was not good with the salary cap.

so far, i think those criticisms are justified.

i really find it odd that we have had such difficulty with a few of the free agents he has signed. shouldn't they be easier to scout than college players?

 
hopefully these are just growing pains, but one of the big knocks on Savage coming in was that he was not good with the salary cap.so far, i think those criticisms are justified.i really find it odd that we have had such difficulty with a few of the free agents he has signed. shouldn't they be easier to scout than college players?
I'm not sure your point?We're still under the cap and have signed a good corp of FA's
 
hopefully these are just growing pains, but one of the big knocks on Savage coming in was that he was not good with the salary cap.so far, i think those criticisms are justified.i really find it odd that we have had such difficulty with a few of the free agents he has signed. shouldn't they be easier to scout than college players?
I'm not sure your point?We're still under the cap and have signed a good corp of FA's
if we end up cutting/trading Shaeffer, and take that cap hit, i wouldn't call that good cap management.yeah, they're still under the cap (which was recently raised), but it will be much more detrimental if he continues to make these mistakes in the future.i just find it odd that someone who is supposed to be such a great evaluator of talent has whiffed on guys like Andruzzi, Shaeffer, and Shelton.
 
hopefully these are just growing pains, but one of the big knocks on Savage coming in was that he was not good with the salary cap.so far, i think those criticisms are justified.i really find it odd that we have had such difficulty with a few of the free agents he has signed. shouldn't they be easier to scout than college players?
I'm not sure your point?We're still under the cap and have signed a good corp of FA's
if we end up cutting/trading Shaeffer, and take that cap hit, i wouldn't call that good cap management.yeah, they're still under the cap (which was recently raised), but it will be much more detrimental if he continues to make these mistakes in the future.i just find it odd that someone who is supposed to be such a great evaluator of talent has whiffed on guys like Andruzzi, Shaeffer, and Shelton.
All three were serviceable guys. Of course they're not the best players out there, but they were better than who we had at those positions before they arrived. I don't think anyone would have thought that Andruzzi, Shelton, and Shaeffer would be the end all, permanent players at their respective positions. Savage did what he had to do to turn the team around, and he scouted/signed the best talent that he could at the time.Now that the team has made a turn around the corner, people are actually interested in playing for the Browns again. Savage has more opportunity to sign better players (Steinbach, LCB). This just makes the former players expendable. Looking at what Savage and Co. has done over the last few years has really impressed me. We are consistently under the salary cap from year to year and we have managed to sign top free agents the last two years. This is something I haven't seen from Cleveland in awhile.As far as cap management, have you seen Shaffer's contract? Even if we keep him, he will only be paid like a RT. IMO, Savage signed him knowing he was not the end answer to the LT position, but would be serviceable enough until a better prospect came along. After watching him play, I really think Shaeffer is better suited for the RT spot. However, if the Giants or Texans want to trade for him, we could eat the $8mill cap hit and still go on living like it was nothing. As long as we get a Day 1 pick for the guy, I would be all for moving him. We finally have talent on the line and some quality depth behind them. This is the most exciting off-season I have seen for the Browns in a while.
 
hopefully these are just growing pains, but one of the big knocks on Savage coming in was that he was not good with the salary cap.so far, i think those criticisms are justified.i really find it odd that we have had such difficulty with a few of the free agents he has signed. shouldn't they be easier to scout than college players?
I'm not sure your point?We're still under the cap and have signed a good corp of FA's
if we end up cutting/trading Shaeffer, and take that cap hit, i wouldn't call that good cap management.yeah, they're still under the cap (which was recently raised), but it will be much more detrimental if he continues to make these mistakes in the future.i just find it odd that someone who is supposed to be such a great evaluator of talent has whiffed on guys like Andruzzi, Shaeffer, and Shelton.
All three were serviceable guys. Of course they're not the best players out there, but they were better than who we had at those positions before they arrived. I don't think anyone would have thought that Andruzzi, Shelton, and Shaeffer would be the end all, permanent players at their respective positions. Savage did what he had to do to turn the team around, and he scouted/signed the best talent that he could at the time.Now that the team has made a turn around the corner, people are actually interested in playing for the Browns again. Savage has more opportunity to sign better players (Steinbach, LCB). This just makes the former players expendable. Looking at what Savage and Co. has done over the last few years has really impressed me. We are consistently under the salary cap from year to year and we have managed to sign top free agents the last two years. This is something I haven't seen from Cleveland in awhile.As far as cap management, have you seen Shaffer's contract? Even if we keep him, he will only be paid like a RT. IMO, Savage signed him knowing he was not the end answer to the LT position, but would be serviceable enough until a better prospect came along. After watching him play, I really think Shaeffer is better suited for the RT spot. However, if the Giants or Texans want to trade for him, we could eat the $8mill cap hit and still go on living like it was nothing. As long as we get a Day 1 pick for the guy, I would be all for moving him. We finally have talent on the line and some quality depth behind them. This is the most exciting off-season I have seen for the Browns in a while.
I'm not sure what his contract value is off the top of my head, but I thought it was pretty hefty and in line with what LT's generally get paid. I have no problem with the Andruzzi and Shelton signings. The o-line was a complete mess when Savage arrived and immediate action was needed just to take the line from horrible to bad. Shaffer on the other hand was a bad move for Savage. As I mentioned, I don't know Shaffer's contract numbers off the top of my head, but from what I recall, you don't pay a player you believe to only be serviceable to the type of contract the Browns did. A serviceable player is the type you can easily cut when an upgrade is aquired. Not take a 8 million cap hit. On WKNR a couple of days ago Roda had his NFL insider Mike Brown on. Mike Brown must be a Steelers fan like Roda, because he is always negative about the Browns, and offered up some critisism regarding the Browns drafting of Quinn. He mentioned that in addition to the 2007 2nd rounder and 2008 1st rounder, you have to include the 2005 3rd rounder the Browns used for Charlie Frye in determining the cost of acquiring Quinn. The Browns essentially are taking a "do-over" on a postion they spent a first day pick on just a couple of years ago. The same for the Joe Thomas. We paid Shaffer big money to play LT, realized it was the wrong move and drafted Thomas, and are now in another "do-over" position where moving Shaffer would require a large cap hit. Not sure if I completely agree with this viewpoint, but it is always interesting to hear different opinions. Especially considering that most of the national opinion regarding the Browns draft has been nothing but positive.
 
Below is Shaeffer's Contract numbers (without bonuses, which have already been paid):

2007: $815,000, 2008: $2.9 million, 2009: $2.65 million, 2010: $2.9 million, 2011-2012: $3.4 million
I retreived this info from another Browns forum where the same situation was discussed ad-nauseum.Basically, his contract is pretty much in line with either a RT or Guard spot. Also, as the salary cap per team continues to grow, Shaeffer's cap hit actually decreases. So his cap is quite manageable whether we keep him or not. The way Trip/Savage managed his contract, Shaeffer is not a liability to us whether we start him as RT, RG, LT, or bench. While Shaeffer may not be a good fit for the Brown's line as a LT, it will not hurt us to hold onto him for any other spot. IMO, Savage and Co. have managed the Brown's team cap very well and has not put us into any kind of negative position. We are still well under the cap and could sign a few more FAs if need be. I don't think they will, but they have managed the team cap well enough to provide themselves that luxury.Having said that, I do believe Shaeffer was a stop-gap pick up for that position. Looking at how they strurctured his contract, I would have to believe Savage thought so as well. Shaeffer did not get paid like a top, or even above average LT. IMO, Shaeffer was brought in to fill a hole at LT and eventually move into the RT spot once a true LT was found to plug the hole. He was serviceable and did his job the best of his ability. Watching him play last year, he is not a true LT. I think he'll perform well as a RT and would rather see him there and Tucker at RG.
 
Peak said:
Below is Shaeffer's Contract numbers (without bonuses, which have already been paid):

2007: $815,000, 2008: $2.9 million, 2009: $2.65 million, 2010: $2.9 million, 2011-2012: $3.4 million
I retreived this info from another Browns forum where the same situation was discussed ad-nauseum.Basically, his contract is pretty much in line with either a RT or Guard spot. Also, as the salary cap per team continues to grow, Shaeffer's cap hit actually decreases. So his cap is quite manageable whether we keep him or not. The way Trip/Savage managed his contract, Shaeffer is not a liability to us whether we start him as RT, RG, LT, or bench. While Shaeffer may not be a good fit for the Brown's line as a LT, it will not hurt us to hold onto him for any other spot. IMO, Savage and Co. have managed the Brown's team cap very well and has not put us into any kind of negative position. We are still well under the cap and could sign a few more FAs if need be. I don't think they will, but they have managed the team cap well enough to provide themselves that luxury.Having said that, I do believe Shaeffer was a stop-gap pick up for that position. Looking at how they strurctured his contract, I would have to believe Savage thought so as well. Shaeffer did not get paid like a top, or even above average LT. IMO, Shaeffer was brought in to fill a hole at LT and eventually move into the RT spot once a true LT was found to plug the hole. He was serviceable and did his job the best of his ability. Watching him play last year, he is not a true LT. I think he'll perform well as a RT and would rather see him there and Tucker at RG.
:hot: I couldn't have said it better myself peak! That's exactly how I look at it.
 
mr blond said:
On WKNR a couple of days ago Roda had his NFL insider Mike Brown on. Mike Brown must be a Steelers fan like Roda, because he is always negative about the Browns, and offered up some critisism regarding the Browns drafting of Quinn. He mentioned that in addition to the 2007 2nd rounder and 2008 1st rounder, you have to include the 2005 3rd rounder the Browns used for Charlie Frye in determining the cost of acquiring Quinn. The Browns essentially are taking a "do-over" on a postion they spent a first day pick on just a couple of years ago. The same for the Joe Thomas. We paid Shaffer big money to play LT, realized it was the wrong move and drafted Thomas, and are now in another "do-over" position where moving Shaffer would require a large cap hit.
Did he happen to mention how the Steelers had to waste a 1st round pick on a LB, when they just could have resigned Joey Porter?That's a ridiculous way to look at it. You can make these claims about every NFL team.
 
Nice Browns draft recap.

http://www.ffmastermind.com/os_view_article.php?id=86

"We ended up with Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn which is a scenario that we could have only imagined in our sleep. This is a day that will go down as the day the fortunes of the Browns will turn around. … this will be one of those stepping stone days." Browns GM Phil Savage commenting on the Browns draft day haul.

Three of the Browns top fifteen players were acquired on the first day of the NFL draft. According to reports the Browns draft board had OT Joe Thomas #3, QB Brady Quinn at #6 and CB Eric Wright at #15. A pipe dream fantasy came true for Phil Savage. Savage confessed that he wrote out a fantasy scenario prior to the draft on a piece of scratch paper. After the draft he found the crumpled tome in his pocket that read, Thomas at #3, Quinn at #7, and Wright at #36. The Browns ended up with Thomas at #3, Quinn at #22, and Wright at #53.

Here are the players acquired by the Browns last weekend.

OT Joe Thomas

Former Browns HC Sam Rutigliano commenting on JT: "Thomas was the right pick at No. 3. He's a OT Tony Boselli, OT Anthony Munoz pick -- a guy who will play 12 to 15 years at left tackle and help anchor the line." NFL talking head Pat Kirwin: "He'll be a 15-year starter; he reminds me of OT Tony Boselli." Browns GM Phil Savage: "Joe Thomas is a bona fide left tackle and a legitimate building block… we felt that he helps strengthen the offensive line, which makes our running game better, protects our quarterback and gives our receivers a chance to play." Browns HC Romeo Crennel: "… the offensive line needed work. We decided to attack that problem and we were fortunate that Joe was there."

Crennell: "Usually, the left side of the line is not the power side. Usually, it’s the right side. Quarterbacks are right-handed and teams are usually more right-handed than left-handed. That puts him on the backside where he’ll be involved with cutoff blocks. He’s bee exposed to a power offense at Wisconsin." Brown HC Romeo Crennell hinting the left side of the Browns offensive line will be the power side.

Interesting stats. RB Jamal Lewis ran for a full yard more per rush last year running to the left side of the Ravens offensive line behind OT Jon Ogden. Two stats on OT Joe Thomas to file away. In over 2,500 plays from scrimmage Thomas was flagged for only 3 penalties. In the 2,571 plays Thomas participated in at Wisconsin, 311 were pancake blocks. Look for the Browns to be a left handed running team.

The Thomas selection coupled with the free agency acquisition of OG Eric Stienbach solidified the offensive line allowing Savage take the biggest gamble of his career in acquiring QB Brady Quinn in a trade up to pick #22 which was held by the Cowboys. Savage: "… we weren’t ready to bring Brady Quinn to this team without the talent of someone like Joe Thomas." Phil had Quinn at #7 on his board and he began making phone calls after Quinn made it by the first dozen picks. KC was attempting to stall Savage who felt the Chiefs would take him at #23. After the draft Phil learned they were going to take Quinn with their pick. Savage also felt Baltimore Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome Savage, would make a move to take Quinn if he didn’t act decisively and pull the trigger with the Dallas Cowboys.

"Jerry Jones is a deal-maker. I was very matter-of-fact with him and I said, "let’s do it." (On thinking that Baltimore might have drafted him)- "It certainly crossed my mind. If it got into the 20s, they would not have had to give up quite as much." Quinn confirmed that he had just gotten off the phone with Baltimore as he was informed that the Browns had traded up for him. Savage: "My concern was that we were going to get so far in the 20s that one of those teams in the 20s or early 30s ahead of our pick would be able to make a more attractive offer. That was more my fear. I felt we had a good chance where we got him, but if it would have gone further, I think we would have been out of business."

"It couldn't have worked out any better," Brady Quinn said. "I have the opportunity to play with a great left tackle and, hopefully, we'll be playing a long time together." "We are going to have a lot of great years together," Thomas said.

Notre Dame HC Charlie Weis called Crennel, and told him that he had "lucked out. I said to him, 'You got your starting left tackle and a guy who's going to challenge for your starting quarterback job as a rookie. You've added two dynamic football players to your team.'

"I don't know how many teams can be as happy about their draft as are the Cleveland Browns." We’ll delve more into the deal next time, for now here are some insights into Quinn.

QB Brady Quinn

Browns GM Phil Savage on Quinn: "Strong arm, mobile, leader, very accurate the majority of the time." Former Browns QB Bernie Kosar in a radio interview stated the ability to read defenses is the key for quarterback success. Kosar said that Brady was the smartest quarterback to come out in the past two years and he feels that Quinn is set for success and acknowledge Notre Dame HC Charlie Weis and his system for prepping Quinn. Bernie feels that Quinn has a leg up since he read a pro-style offense and like the TD to INTO ratio that Brady compiled. He felt the Fighting Irish supporting cast was weak and that Quinn has the rare ability to "raise the level of play of those around him".

Kosar noted what could be an insightful negative side of Weis’ system. He said that Charlie was so effective in putting Quinn in the right play call to counter the defense 80 to 90 percent of the time before Brady took his pre-snap read noting he may not be as experienced/skilled with his check downs as previously given credit for. An interesting concept. The quality of Quinn’s coaching may have risen Brady’ game to a level that he cannot improve upon. Its possible that BK has over thought Quinn’s situation.

A staunch detractor of Quinn is former Steeler RB Merril Hoge, who had this to say: "Watching video of all Quinn's throws at Notre Dame was akin to watching a bad ball drill… down in the dirt, behind the shoulder, he's very erratic in the pocket, very jittery."

"… he really has accuracy issues. Miami HC Cam (Cameron) knows that. That's why they didn't take him. Cleveland made a big mistake." It should be noted that last year Hodge stated that QB Vince Young was not very good and would not even be taken on the first day of last year’s draft. QB Vince Young subsequently was taken with the third selection of last year’s draft and became the first rookie quarterback in NFL history to be named to the Pro Bowl.

Naysayers point out that if the Browns felt Quinn was a franchise quarterback, they would have taken him with the third pick instead of tackle Joe Thomas. Savage phoned Quinn the night prior to the draft to inform him that the Browns would not be taking him at the third pick. So it was obvious that Savage did not rank Quinn as high as Thomas but Phil felt the overwhelming desire to move back into the first round and to keep him from falling into the hands of the Ravens.

So what can Brown’s fans and the fantasy football community expect of Quinn? Quinn is an intriguing long term dynasty prospect.

Dallas Morning News writer Rich Gosselin had written the single greatest predictor of NFL success for top drafted quarterbacks was collegiate games started. Quinn started 46 games which ranks him near the top of every top drafted quarterback over the last decade, only one with as many starts had failed. Gosselin rated Quinn the best value of the first round saying, "no quarterback is better prepared to play as an NFL rookie in 2007 than Quinn." Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis believes Quinn can come in and compete to start as a rookie," "In a very short amount of time, everyone in the Browns organization is going to be delighted in the product they're getting," Weis If you're looking for somebody who's ready to go walking in the door of an NFL team, he's the guy " Weis adds, "Physically, this is a man among boys at the quarterback position,"

Although Quinn completed 58.0 percent of his passes over his career it should be noted that the last two years he eclipsed completing 60% of his passes. Quinn’s physique gets mentioned but it should be mentioned that he did not get his build by accident. His physique is a testament to his work ethic and desire to be the best. This blurb gives an insight to that work ethic. Brady attended the Blue Jays-Yankees game the night before the draft. One astute reporter saw him the day of the draft in the gym at 6 a.m. working out.

Final note on Quinn, Sports Illustrated's Peter King states that Browns get the benefit of paying their potential quarterback of the future much less than they would have had to pay, if such a player had been drafted in the top five. Very true. Last year’s top drafted QB Vince Young taken with the third pick got a contracted surpassing $57 million whereas last year’s 22nd pick LB Manny Lawson inked a contract of less than $8 million.

CB Eric Wright

The Browns had dished their second round pick as part of the package to land Quinn but were trying to fill a hole at cornerback so when they saw Wright still on the board late in the second round they made another trade with the Dallas Cowboys to get the Boys second round pick, #59 and selected CB Eric Wright. Wright was ranked #15 on the Browns draft board.

Wright noted: "The Browns were comfortable not just with drafting me, but making a trade to draft me. Any time a team trades up to get you, it's special. They want you."

Kiper called second-round pick Eric Wright "a good value" saying, "You could argue he's better than (first-round picks) Leon Hall and Darrelle Revis." Gil Brandt felt Wright would have been taken in the 15-20 range in Round 1 if it weren't for the off-the-field issues. Savage hinted Wright fell because teams did not do their due diligence into looking into character issues/legal allegations concerning Wright. Phil must have checked into and signed off on Wright’s character in order to make the move up to go get him. The Browns got three players who they ranked as first round picks on their draft board. And the exciting thing is that ALL THREE players where best players available at their positions when Cleveland selected them AND all three filled major holes on the team.

Some time in the future we may look back and see that Savage may have reached a career pinnacle, he appeared exhausted after the long and frenetic first trade filled first day had come to a close. He said; "We have upgraded the low end of our roster. It’s not guaranteed that sixth and seventh round guys are going to come in here and make our team anymore. We felt like we needed to be aggressive and get three players who can have an impact at any point whether it’s day one or next year. Quarterback, offensive line and secondary are your three major groupings of your team. If you have an offensive line that can do some things, you are going to have a chance on offense. If you have a secondary that doesn’t give up big plays, you are going to stay in most games. If you have a quarterback that can make some plays for you, be a leader and learn the offense, those are three things that will keep you in game and help you win a lot of them." "In the aftermath of the big splash we made yesterday, today was somewhat of a ripple effect. It was important for us to add some players that we felt could come in and compete. As I mentioned yesterday, I felt like the bottom half of our roster has improved to the point where we can just pick anyone who will come in here and make the squad."

Savage had said the Brown’s board had collapsed on the second day. It was evident that the one area that both Savage and Crennell were uncertain that the players they got would be able to fill the last big hole left unattended to on the first day of the draft, the defensive line.

Phil Savage (On positions he was hoping to address)- "I think we all believe our defensive line needs some young ability. It didn’t play out that way and that’s one reason why we wanted to take a shot on DE Melila Purcell and DE Chase Pittman. We’ll see if either guy can emerge. That’s one thing about 3-4 defensive linemen. You are looking for the big bodies who can push people and hold their ground. Yes, they need to make plays. In a 3-4 defense, the linebackers are really the playmakers. If the defensive lineman can hold the blockers off the linebackers, you can be pretty successful."

Romeo Crennel (On the defensive line)- "When you talk about DE Robaire Smith, he’s played in some games so we feel good about that. Some of the guys on the team have matured and have another year of experience. Take for instance DE Simon Fraser. I expect more from him and that will help us. We didn’t get the young guy in the draft to help us this time, but as Phil says, when there are many holes to be filled at one time, you can’t do it all at once. We feel good about the holes we’ve filled at this point."

When Quinn was falling and ESPN had mentioned that the Browns were trying to move up for him and then the commissioner said that the Cowboys had traded their pick you could feel Browns fans across the world lean forward in their seats, when it was reported the Browns had made the trade you could hear cheers and whistles from Browns Nation, and then when the name QB Brady Quinn was announced the pumped fists and back slaps and warm hugs cut through space and time.

Former Browns HC Sam Rutiglinano summed up the feeling.

"I was ecstatic," Rutigliano said. "I am still ecstatic. It's wonderful, just wonderful.

For the first time in eight years, we have the audacity of hope."

Sports Center just showed Quinn taking snaps at the Browns rookie mini camp. If you have followed the Browns Eye in the Sky Reports you know we have been pining away for a franchise quarterback. After seeing Quinn taking snaps in orange and brown I say it is high time for Browns fans to revel in the audacity of hope.

Aspettate fino alla prossima volta... Till next time, Ciao!
 
On winning the coin toss...

With coin comes Browns' change of fortune

Sunday, May 06, 2007

Tony Grossi

Cleveland Plain Dealer

After all their bad luck and bad drafts, could the turnaround of the expansion Browns ultimately be attributed to . . . a coin toss?

As it turned out, the coin flip between the Browns and Tampa Bay figured prominently in the first round of the NFL draft.

The flip was required because the NFL has only two tiebreakers to decide draft order for teams in different conferences, and the Browns and Tampa Bay had the same 4-12 record and the same strength of schedule.

On Feb. 23 at the NFL combine in Indianapolis, the Browns won the toss with Tampa Bay, earning the No. 3 spot in the draft.

Browns GM Phil Savage used that pick on Wisconsin left tackle Joe Thomas, and then traded his second pick and next year's No. 1 to Dallas to select Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn with the 22nd pick.

If the Browns had lost the coin flip, Savage said, "it would have changed the course of events."

Here is what might have happened:

One NFL source and two Tampa media members insist that Tampa Bay would not have taken Clemson defensive end Gaines Adams, whom they selected at No. 4. The unanimous opinion is Tampa Bay would have chosen Thomas at No. 3.

What would the Browns have done with the No. 4 pick?

Savage wouldn't say, but a league source close to the Browns opined that the Browns would have taken Quinn at No. 4. The source said Quinn was in the Browns' top five on their draft board.

Savage was intent on coming away from the draft with two impact players, however. On the day before the draft, Savage planted the seed of trade with Dallas for the No. 22 pick in the first round. At the time, Savage was targeting Texas cornerback Aaron Ross with that pick.

But Ross, who would also have filled a Browns' need at punt returner, was selected No. 20 by the New York Giants.

With Ross gone, it's possible Savage might have pursued the trade with Dallas and considered the third-rated tackle, Joe Staley of Central Michigan. Staley went off the board at No. 28 to San Francisco.

In the end, the double play of Thomas and Quinn was characterized by Savage as "the day the fortunes of the Browns' turned around."

The Cleveland Cavaliers can credit their turnaround to the lottery ball that gave them LeBron James on the first pick of the 2003 NBA draft. The Browns may owe theirs - if it happens - to the coin flip.

On the other hand:

The Cowboys took some heat in Dallas for passing on Quinn with the No. 22 pick. But, come next April, owner and GM Jerry Jones may be hailed as a genius for acquiring the Browns' top pick in the 2008 draft. Especially if the Browns wind up in the top 10 of the draft order.

It so happens that the 2008 draft is loaded with blue-chippers, including quarterbacks Brian Brohm of Louisville and Colt Brennan of Hawaii and offensive tackles Sam Baker of USC and Jake Long of Michigan. Two other tackles are considered first-rounders.

But the very top of the draft could be claimed by junior Arkansas running back Darren McFadden - if he opts out early. It's no secret that Jones, who played for Arkansas and maintains a relationship with the university, has his eyes on McFadden.

The Cowboys passed on Quinn partly because of their faith in Tony Romo.

Jones told Dallas media: "We looked the alternative right in the eye, Brady Quinn. Here was a guy we had rated high. I can remember looking back and thinking how would this franchise ever get in a spot to get a quarterback that had those kind of credentials without being right at the top. We looked it right in the eye and we liked where we are with Tony Romo."
 
Browns take look at Moss

Team needs someone to pair with Jamal Lewis

Patrick McManamon

Akron Beacon Journal

BEREA - Tyrone Moss would prefer that folks look at the first seven games of his junior season at the University of Miami rather than his senior year.

``My senior year was devastating,'' Moss said Saturday at the Browns' minicamp.

Moss is one of the undrafted free agents practicing with the Browns, and he probably is the most intriguing of the guys who were not drafted.

In his first two years at Miami, Moss ran for 956 yards playing behind Frank Gore.

When Gore left for the NFL, Moss took over as a junior and ran for 701 yards on 137 carries in eight games before being sidelined by a torn knee ligament.

Moss was so effective that he was named first-team All-ACC and led the conference in touchdowns with 12, despite being injured.

He came back as a senior, but admits he came back too soon.

``I wasn't 100 percent when I came back,'' Moss said. ``I was pushing through the pain, fighting through it. And I wasn't ready when I came back.''

He got only 66 carries, but averaged 4.3 yards per carry.

``My injury was a major setback,'' he said.

His role model was Gore, who came back from two ACL surgeries to run for 1,695 yards for the San Francisco 49ers last season.

Moss kept in constant touch with Gore during his rehab, and uses Gore as a model for his future.

``Frank said it would take a year and a half,'' Moss said. ``I look up to Frank. He showed what he could do after two knee surgeries.

``If he has two and I have one, I know I can deal with that.''

The Browns need a second back to pair with Jamal Lewis. Jason Wright and Jerome Harrison are on the roster, but Moss provides an interesting possibility.

Moss -- 5-foot-9 and 231 pounds -- has a squatty body, but a quick style.

``Tyrone has pretty quick feet,'' Browns coach Romeo Crennel said. ``I think Tyrone will show more when we put pads on. He's one of those guys who can find the holes inside and can plant and juke.''

Moss ran for 7,000 yards at Pompano Beach Ely, a high school that has produced numerous NFL players. He was suspended for the opener for missing study hall, and feels that gave him a bad label.

NFLdraftscout.com describes him this way: ``Moss has a bowling ball build at 5-foot-9, 231 pounds. As a freshman, Moss looked like Miami's next Frank Gore. After that, his improvement was on again, off again. He seemed to be hitting his stride as a 2005 junior but blew out a knee in Game 8, then was a backup in 2006.''

Moss is not a breakaway back -- his 4.75-second 40 time does not overwhelm -- but he said people have compared him to Lewis.

Several teams called Moss after the draft, including the Cincinnati Bengals, Arizona Cardinals and Denver Broncos -- and the Broncos are not a team known for bringing in bad backs.

Moss just wants a chance.

Before coming to Cleveland, he told the Miami Herald: ``People are going to see something special.''
 
Tidbits from ABJ writer Patrick McManamon on Sunday...

Update

Crennel gave updates on the status of three players for the 2007 season:

• The coach remains positive that Kellen Winslow is on target to return from microfracture surgery.

Winslow has been in the team's facility constantly in the offseason, and his rehab is on schedule.

The Browns do not expect Winslow to do much in the June minicamp, though.

• Center LeCharles Bentley remains in Arizona working on his injured knee and trying to decide if he should have another operation on it.

Bentley tore his patellar tendon in last year's training camp and had a major setback when he incurred a staph infection.

He will not be in Cleveland for any of the team's offseason practices or the minicamp, Crennel said.

• Tackle Ryan Tucker has been around the team and is doing well, Crennel said. ``His attitude is good, and he's excited about the coming year,'' Crennel said.

Tucker was sidelined late last season with mental health issues, but Crennel said he's optimistic Tucker will return. He won't know for sure, though, until the games start.

``We have to see how that's handled,'' Crennel said. ``If he handles that, then I think that he'll be OK.''

Brownies

• Don't discount Charlie Frye's determination to keep his job. It might be a long shot, but Frye talked after the season finale of the Browns being his team. It's the reason he played with a very painful right wrist injury. That decision won him the respect of many, including his coach, and Frye has been very active this offseason working to improve and get stronger.

• It's hard to tell a lot from a minicamp, but cornerback Eric Wright appears to have the potential to win the cornerback job opposite Leigh Bodden. ``He looks very athletic,'' Crennel said. ``Nice, smooth feet. Does a good job jamming receivers, and he does have the confidence in his ability, in what he can do. He looked pretty decent.'' In Crennel's verbiage, ``pretty good'' translates to dadgum impressive.

• Interesting to hear Crennel say that Joe Andruzzi's knees are fine and that they had nothing to do with his release. Andruzzi was always Crennel's favorite battle-ax, and it's hard to think the coach was eager to see him go.

• Crennel said that when he talked to Kevin Shaffer, Shaffer did not ask for a trade. Shaffer's agent has told the team his client would like to move on, but the Browns do not seem inclined to trade him.

• Crennel confirmed that free-agent signee Seth McKinney is (for now) the starting right guard.

• Quinn arrived at minicamp with a haircut, and admitted it was a reaction to criticism from Joe Theismann that he did not look ``businesslike'' after the Browns drafted him. Quinn actually apologized to Notre Dame alums or fans who were offended, though he had no reason to. He said he was so excited to be taken by the Browns that the last thing he was thinking of was gum or his hair. ``I was just trying to get on the stage as fast as possible,'' he said, ``get that Browns jersey in my hand, get that hat on my head.''

• That being said, Quinn took what Theismann had to say to heart. Quinn said he's a big fan of Theismann, that Theismann (and Joe Montana) had returned often to Notre Dame to talk to the team. ``He's been one of those big influences,'' Quinn said. ``So I have a lot of respect for him. It makes you look in the mirror and say, `Maybe you need to think about those sorts of things,' '' he said. Thus he got a haircut.

• The best thing about minicamp? To first-round pick Joe Thomas, it's this: ``Going back to being a lineman and getting out of the spotlight.''
 
Let's face it: Brady Quinn is just a rookie

By Terry Pluto

Akron Beacon Journal

May 8, 2007

After two days of watching Brady Quinn throw passes into the wind, with the wind, on target and way off target, here's what we know: He's a rookie quarterback.

Here's what else we know: The NFL is an unforgiving place for rookie quarterbacks.

Here's the good news: The Notre Dame star impressed the Browns by showing that some of the hype from Irish coach Charlie Weis is right. The kid is well-prepared for the pros.

``He's mentally sharp, he picks up things easily, the coaches enjoy him,'' Browns General Manager Phil Savage said. ``You can train him. He's a good student. He's in a unique situation, because he started for four years at Notre Dame and played the last two for a pro coach. That really helps.''

It doesn't make Quinn the opening-day starter.

Romeo Crennel said what most coaches do: The edge goes to Charlie Frye, the veteran with 18 starts. Derek Anderson is somewhere in the mix, having started three games in two NFL seasons. Then, there's Quinn.

How about bringing in a veteran quarterback?

``Right now, I don't see that happening,'' Savage said. ``I think it's time to move forward with the guys we have at quarterback.''

Savage mentioned that new offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski has an appreciation of Ken Dorsey, ``who was 35-1 for Chud when they were together at (the University of) Miami.'' Dorsey (10 career pro starts) is not going to start, but Savage said he does bring a veteran's knowledge and approach to the team.

Savage is far from endorsing Quinn as an opening-day starter, but he also won't rule it out.

``By the end of minicamp and heading into veterans camp, we at least want to be down to our top two,'' Savage said. ``If one emerges by veterans camp, then we'll go with him.''

As for Quinn?

``It's tough to start from Day One because of the speed of the game and everything else involved,'' Savage said. ``He doesn't move quite as well as Charlie (Frye), but he can move around in the pocket. He is fluid and polished. You can't expect him to start (Day One), but his background does give him a chance.''

Some history is in order. The following quarterbacks did not start a game as a rookie: Chad Pennington, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper, Brett Favre and Tom Brady.

Super Bowl quarterback Steve McNair started six games in his first two years. Donovan McNabb had six starts as a rookie; Michael Vick had two.

Among active quarterbacks, I found only two who started all 16 games as a rookie: Peyton Manning and David Carr. Truly mixed result.

Other recent rookies receiving significant starts: Tim Couch (14), Kerry Collins (13), Ben Roethlisberger (13), Vince Young (13), Joey Harrington (12), Matt Leinart (11) and Kyle Boller (nine).

Rushing rookies into action rarely seems to work. Is it because they usually are high-profile players on bad teams, as was the case with Couch, Harrington and Carr? That often means any quarterback would struggle playing behind a poor line, and often playing from behind because of a shaky defense.

It's the worst circumstances for a young quarterback.

Or are the guys just not good enough?

Roethlisberger started 13 times as a rookie for a Pittsburgh Steelers team that went 15-1. How would he have fared with the 2004 Browns instead of the 2004 Steelers?

You don't know.

In most cases, teams playing a rookie quarterback lose, and the quarterback is beaten up physically and mentally. His confidence is shaken, doubts rise among the fans and the organization.

A year ago, the Browns gave the job to Frye with the motto of ``preserving, protecting and promoting'' the kid from the University of Akron. That was not exactly a successful mission.

So what should the Browns do?

At least start the season with Frye and give Quinn time to watch and learn. That never hurts a rookie quarterback.
 
Let's face it: Brady Quinn is just a rookie

By Terry Pluto

Akron Beacon Journal

May 8, 2007

After two days of watching Brady Quinn throw passes into the wind, with the wind, on target and way off target, here's what we know: He's a rookie quarterback.

Here's what else we know: The NFL is an unforgiving place for rookie quarterbacks.

Here's the good news: The Notre Dame star impressed the Browns by showing that some of the hype from Irish coach Charlie Weis is right. The kid is well-prepared for the pros.

``He's mentally sharp, he picks up things easily, the coaches enjoy him,'' Browns General Manager Phil Savage said. ``You can train him. He's a good student. He's in a unique situation, because he started for four years at Notre Dame and played the last two for a pro coach. That really helps.''

It doesn't make Quinn the opening-day starter.

Romeo Crennel said what most coaches do: The edge goes to Charlie Frye, the veteran with 18 starts. Derek Anderson is somewhere in the mix, having started three games in two NFL seasons. Then, there's Quinn.

How about bringing in a veteran quarterback?

``Right now, I don't see that happening,'' Savage said. ``I think it's time to move forward with the guys we have at quarterback.''

Savage mentioned that new offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski has an appreciation of Ken Dorsey, ``who was 35-1 for Chud when they were together at (the University of) Miami.'' Dorsey (10 career pro starts) is not going to start, but Savage said he does bring a veteran's knowledge and approach to the team.

Savage is far from endorsing Quinn as an opening-day starter, but he also won't rule it out.

``By the end of minicamp and heading into veterans camp, we at least want to be down to our top two,'' Savage said. ``If one emerges by veterans camp, then we'll go with him.''

As for Quinn?

``It's tough to start from Day One because of the speed of the game and everything else involved,'' Savage said. ``He doesn't move quite as well as Charlie (Frye), but he can move around in the pocket. He is fluid and polished. You can't expect him to start (Day One), but his background does give him a chance.''

Some history is in order. The following quarterbacks did not start a game as a rookie: Chad Pennington, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper, Brett Favre and Tom Brady.

Super Bowl quarterback Steve McNair started six games in his first two years. Donovan McNabb had six starts as a rookie; Michael Vick had two.

Among active quarterbacks, I found only two who started all 16 games as a rookie: Peyton Manning and David Carr. Truly mixed result.

Other recent rookies receiving significant starts: Tim Couch (14), Kerry Collins (13), Ben Roethlisberger (13), Vince Young (13), Joey Harrington (12), Matt Leinart (11) and Kyle Boller (nine).

Rushing rookies into action rarely seems to work. Is it because they usually are high-profile players on bad teams, as was the case with Couch, Harrington and Carr? That often means any quarterback would struggle playing behind a poor line, and often playing from behind because of a shaky defense.

It's the worst circumstances for a young quarterback.

Or are the guys just not good enough?

Roethlisberger started 13 times as a rookie for a Pittsburgh Steelers team that went 15-1. How would he have fared with the 2004 Browns instead of the 2004 Steelers?

You don't know.

In most cases, teams playing a rookie quarterback lose, and the quarterback is beaten up physically and mentally. His confidence is shaken, doubts rise among the fans and the organization.

A year ago, the Browns gave the job to Frye with the motto of ``preserving, protecting and promoting'' the kid from the University of Akron. That was not exactly a successful mission.

So what should the Browns do?

At least start the season with Frye and give Quinn time to watch and learn. That never hurts a rookie quarterback.
The comment by Savage sticks out to me. Is he saying that Quinn isn't moving freely in the pocket just because he's a rookie and is unfamiliar with the offense or is he hinting that Quinn's knee still isn't 100% ? If you recall Quinn didn't run at the combine because his knee was still on the mend from an injury of last season. He ran at his Pro Day workout but he wasn't much faster than JaMarcus Russell and I felt he would have run a lil better at his Pro Day but I remember his knee injury was brought up at that time. The other part by Pluto has to be noted. Pluto came out with an article a few days before the draft where the headline was 'Don't Draft Quinn!' he threw up alarms on Quinn. This article begins with Pluto highlighting the passes that were off the mark in Quinn's first NFL practices. Pluto has been a mother hen type with Charlie Frye claiming all of his problems stemmed from having a bad offensive line. He finishes this article by saying the Browns failed Frye last year in not preserving and protecting and promoting Frye. OK Pluto, we get it. You want Frye to succeed and you do not want Quinn to be handed the starting job.

Don't worry. Crennell decides who starts and who doesn't. I think the only way Quinn starts is if Romeo is sure he has shown that he is better. I don't think Quinn's agent, Tom Condon, is going to make contract negotiations easy and we'll see a hold out of some sort. Crennell is the guy to listen to right now since he is the one working with the players. If you listen to him, he is much more practicle and he has stated that they have four guys and only one ball which hints whoever does the most with their opportunities is going to win the starting job. Its doubtful Dorsey gets many reps with the number one squad. Frye will get reps by default, same with Anderson. Quinn is going to have to earn his reps with the first squad and if he has a holdout its really going to cost him.

I'd much prefer we sit Quinn unless he comes in and lights it up proving he's head and shoulders better than Frye/Anderson. I see little chance of that happening, especially if his agent has him hold out and unfortunately I think that is inevitable. Condon got burned last year when Matt Lienart fell to the number ten pick. This year another one of his high profile QBs fell but much futher down the first round ladder. If Condon doesn't redeem himself by getting Quinn a plumb contract then future clients, especially future QB clients will take note and avoid him like the plague. We made a move up to land Quinn and gave up a first and a second round draft selection which gives Condon lots of leverage.

Also in the article I listed Savage let slip he had Quiin ranked #7 on the Browns draft board and he began making calls after Quinn fell to the #12 spot so Condon will probably discount entirely where Quinn came off the board and say Quinn should be paid like a number seven or twelve pick or the equivilent of a number one and a number two pick combined since that was what the Browns paid to land him. IOWs I see an ugly holdout situation which will remove Quinn from any chance of working with the number one unit so I feel he stands no chance of winning the starting job at the begining of the year.

And the big thing that people need to understand is this. If their is a holdout its entirely on the shoulders of Tom Condon, NOT Brady Quinn. Condon negotiates the contract, NOT Quinn. Condon tells his client to sit and face the heat of public rathe while Condon moves slowly to pressure the team. Condon has already let Brady Quinn face public ridicule by not properly reading the draft board. Condon will have no trouble hanging Brady Quinn out to dry to face public ridicule again by forcing him to hold out as he tries to squeeze every last penny out of the Browns. So expect a holdout and if/when that comes just remember, its Tom Condon NOT Brady Quinn.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Let's face it: Brady Quinn is just a rookie

By Terry Pluto

Akron Beacon Journal

May 8, 2007

After two days of watching Brady Quinn throw passes into the wind, with the wind, on target and way off target, here's what we know: He's a rookie quarterback.

Here's what else we know: The NFL is an unforgiving place for rookie quarterbacks.

Here's the good news: The Notre Dame star impressed the Browns by showing that some of the hype from Irish coach Charlie Weis is right. The kid is well-prepared for the pros.

``He's mentally sharp, he picks up things easily, the coaches enjoy him,'' Browns General Manager Phil Savage said. ``You can train him. He's a good student. He's in a unique situation, because he started for four years at Notre Dame and played the last two for a pro coach. That really helps.''

It doesn't make Quinn the opening-day starter.

Romeo Crennel said what most coaches do: The edge goes to Charlie Frye, the veteran with 18 starts. Derek Anderson is somewhere in the mix, having started three games in two NFL seasons. Then, there's Quinn.

How about bringing in a veteran quarterback?

``Right now, I don't see that happening,'' Savage said. ``I think it's time to move forward with the guys we have at quarterback.''

Savage mentioned that new offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski has an appreciation of Ken Dorsey, ``who was 35-1 for Chud when they were together at (the University of) Miami.'' Dorsey (10 career pro starts) is not going to start, but Savage said he does bring a veteran's knowledge and approach to the team.

Savage is far from endorsing Quinn as an opening-day starter, but he also won't rule it out.

``By the end of minicamp and heading into veterans camp, we at least want to be down to our top two,'' Savage said. ``If one emerges by veterans camp, then we'll go with him.''

As for Quinn?

``It's tough to start from Day One because of the speed of the game and everything else involved,'' Savage said. ``He doesn't move quite as well as Charlie (Frye), but he can move around in the pocket. He is fluid and polished. You can't expect him to start (Day One), but his background does give him a chance.''

Some history is in order. The following quarterbacks did not start a game as a rookie: Chad Pennington, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper, Brett Favre and Tom Brady.

Super Bowl quarterback Steve McNair started six games in his first two years. Donovan McNabb had six starts as a rookie; Michael Vick had two.

Among active quarterbacks, I found only two who started all 16 games as a rookie: Peyton Manning and David Carr. Truly mixed result.

Other recent rookies receiving significant starts: Tim Couch (14), Kerry Collins (13), Ben Roethlisberger (13), Vince Young (13), Joey Harrington (12), Matt Leinart (11) and Kyle Boller (nine).

Rushing rookies into action rarely seems to work. Is it because they usually are high-profile players on bad teams, as was the case with Couch, Harrington and Carr? That often means any quarterback would struggle playing behind a poor line, and often playing from behind because of a shaky defense.

It's the worst circumstances for a young quarterback.

Or are the guys just not good enough?

Roethlisberger started 13 times as a rookie for a Pittsburgh Steelers team that went 15-1. How would he have fared with the 2004 Browns instead of the 2004 Steelers?

You don't know.

In most cases, teams playing a rookie quarterback lose, and the quarterback is beaten up physically and mentally. His confidence is shaken, doubts rise among the fans and the organization.

A year ago, the Browns gave the job to Frye with the motto of ``preserving, protecting and promoting'' the kid from the University of Akron. That was not exactly a successful mission.

So what should the Browns do?

At least start the season with Frye and give Quinn time to watch and learn. That never hurts a rookie quarterback.
The comment by Savage sticks out to me. Is he saying that Quinn isn't moving freely in the pocket just because he's a rookie and is unfamiliar with the offense or is he hinting that Quinn's knee still isn't 100% ? If you recall Quinn didn't run at the combine because his knee was still on the mend from an injury of last season. He ran at his Pro Day workout but he wasn't much faster than JaMarcus Russell and I felt he would have run a lil better at his Pro Day but I remember his knee injury was brought up at that time. The other part by Pluto has to be noted. Pluto came out with an article a few days before the draft where the headline was 'Don't Draft Quinn!' he threw up alarms on Quinn. This article begins with Pluto highlighting the passes that were off the mark in Quinn's first NFL practices. Pluto has been a mother hen type with Charlie Frye claiming all of his problems stemmed from having a bad offensive line. He finishes this article by saying the Browns failed Frye last year in not preserving and protecting and promoting Frye. OK Pluto, we get it. You want Frye to succeed and you do not want Quinn to be handed the starting job.

Don't worry. Crennell decides who starts and who doesn't. I think the only way Quinn starts is if Romeo is sure he has shown that he is better. I don't think Quinn's agent, Tom Condon, is going to make contract negotiations easy and we'll see a hold out of some sort. Crennell is the guy to listen to right now since he is the one working with the players. If you listen to him, he is much more practicle and he has stated that they have four guys and only one ball which hints whoever does the most with their opportunities is going to win the starting job. Its doubtful Dorsey gets many reps with the number one squad. Frye will get reps by default, same with Anderson. Quinn is going to have to earn his reps with the first squad and if he has a holdout its really going to cost him.

I'd much prefer we sit Quinn unless he comes in and lights it up proving he's head and shoulders better than Frye/Anderson. I see little chance of that happening, especially if his agent has him hold out and unfortunately I think that is inevitable. Condon got burned last year when Matt Lienart fell to the number ten pick. This year another one of his high profile QBs fell but much futher down the first round ladder. If Condon doesn't redeem himself by getting Quinn a plumb contract then future clients, especially future QB clients will take note and avoid him like the plague. We made a move up to land Quinn and gave up a first and a second round draft selection which gives Condon lots of leverage.

Also in the article I listed Savage let slip he had Quiin ranked #7 on the Browns draft board and he began making calls after Quinn fell to the #12 spot so Condon will probably discount entirely where Quinn came off the board and say Quinn should be paid like a number seven or twelve pick or the equivilent of a number one and a number two pick combined since that was what the Browns paid to land him. IOWs I see an ugly holdout situation which will remove Quinn from any chance of working with the number one unit so I feel he stands no chance of winning the starting job at the begining of the year.

And the big thing that people need to understand is this. If their is a holdout its entirely on the shoulders of Tom Condon, NOT Brady Quinn. Condon negotiates the contract, NOT Quinn. Condon tells his client to sit and face the heat of public rathe while Condon moves slowly to pressure the team. Condon has already let Brady Quinn face public ridicule by not properly reading the draft board. Condon will have no trouble hanging Brady Quinn out to dry to face public ridicule again by forcing him to hold out as he tries to squeeze every last penny out of the Browns. So expect a holdout and if/when that comes just remember, its Tom Condon NOT Brady Quinn.
A few comments...I would have to say Frye has better "escapability" than Quinn from what I've seen from both of them. Frye is a little bit more nimble. This is not the only factor that defines a QB, we all know this, so let's move on from that.

As far as Quinn getting better money than a normal #22, I think that is almost certain. I doubt Condon will have much leverage if he trys to get #7/#12 money though. It just won't work and he has to also look at the best interests of his client, or else he'll have one less client soon. Quinn has even publically said you make your money with the next contract (ask Couch that one). It's still a point to think about though. This would also be like Eric Wright's agent trying to get #15 money because that is where the Browns had him on their board (and I'm not making that #15 up), it's just not going to happen. Quinn will have some escalators that will earn him more money in the long run (maybe this year), but he's not going to get much more guaranteed money than maybe the guys a few picks ahead of him, imo of course. The key here is the guaranteed money.

Also, about your very last paragraph/sentence...I don't know for sure, but I'd say players have some say at what goes on. I would if it was me. The public can pressure Quinn alot easier than Condon, so that is why Quinn must also be held accountable. You get to the agent by pressuring the player, making the agent come closer to what the team wants. Condon isn't going to name all his demands and just tell the Browns to give him a call when they agree to them and that he's not changing anything. Pressure works both ways.

 
I guess we know why Tyrone Moss went undrafted...

Browns release Moss, sign three

Wednesday, May 09, 2007

From staff and wire reports

It didn't take the Browns long to determine that Tyrone Moss won't be challenging for a spot in the team's backfield.

The once-heralded running back from Miami was one of three undrafted free agents released by the team on Tuesday. The others were offensive lineman Rick Drushal and linebacker Funtaine Hunter.

Moss had 701 yards rushing and a 5.1-yard average for the Hurricanes in 2005 before tearing a knee ligament. The Browns apparently agree with scouts who opined that Moss has not been the same since the injury. The club did not comment on the transaction.

But the Browns did find a running back they liked during their three-day minicamp. Jerome Jackson, who rushed for 718 yards in 35 games with Michigan, was signed to a contract.

Other tryouts who earned contracts were offensive lineman Cliff Louis from Morgan State and linebacker Kevin Sears of Auburn.
 
I love the aquisition of Joe Thomas, the guy is a beast, I love watching college highlights of him getting down field and bulldozing the defense :blackdot:

Not too big on the Brady Quinn move though, I think the Brown's gave up too much and I really like Charlie Frye.

 
I love the aquisition of Joe Thomas, the guy is a beast, I love watching college highlights of him getting down field and bulldozing the defense :mellow:Not too big on the Brady Quinn move though, I think the Brown's gave up too much and I really like Charlie Frye.
I've read that he has shown accuracy problems already in some Offseason Team Activities, which isn't what you want to learn.
 
I love the aquisition of Joe Thomas, the guy is a beast, I love watching college highlights of him getting down field and bulldozing the defense :DNot too big on the Brady Quinn move though, I think the Brown's gave up too much and I really like Charlie Frye.
I've read that he has shown accuracy problems already in some Offseason Team Activities, which isn't what you want to learn.
stupid rookies. :goodposting:
 
So how long will our rags and radio stiffs keep harping on Braylon for missing one voluntary practice and now running routes on the 3rd team? This is not a story at this time, media lowlifes.

 
So how long will our rags and radio stiffs keep harping on Braylon for missing one voluntary practice and now running routes on the 3rd team? This is not a story at this time, media lowlifes.
Wait...the media is blowing something out of proportion?! THIS NEVER HAPPENS! :shrug:
 
So how long will our rags and radio stiffs keep harping on Braylon for missing one voluntary practice and now running routes on the 3rd team? This is not a story at this time, media lowlifes.
Key Word right there.... Voluntarywasn't he at the charity function he just set up for the kids scholarship funds. The media applaud's him for setting up the charity and it's major news. He misses a voluntary workout and now he's a cancer again. Gimmie a break. Again.....this is a non story. Braylon will break out this year.

 
erymer said:
Bobcat10 said:
So how long will our rags and radio stiffs keep harping on Braylon for missing one voluntary practice and now running routes on the 3rd team? This is not a story at this time, media lowlifes.
Key Word right there.... Voluntarywasn't he at the charity function he just set up for the kids scholarship funds. The media applaud's him for setting up the charity and it's major news. He misses a voluntary workout and now he's a cancer again. Gimmie a break. Again.....this is a non story. Braylon will break out this year.
It supposedly was not charity....personal issue that was unavoidable or something like that.Maybe he's working with the third team to get more reps with a certain QB? Hmmm, they'd never think of that though.

 
erymer said:
Bobcat10 said:
So how long will our rags and radio stiffs keep harping on Braylon for missing one voluntary practice and now running routes on the 3rd team? This is not a story at this time, media lowlifes.
Key Word right there.... Voluntarywasn't he at the charity function he just set up for the kids scholarship funds. The media applaud's him for setting up the charity and it's major news. He misses a voluntary workout and now he's a cancer again. Gimmie a break. Again.....this is a non story. Braylon will break out this year.
It supposedly was not charity....personal issue that was unavoidable or something like that.Maybe he's working with the third team to get more reps with a certain QB? Hmmm, they'd never think of that though.
good point, but that seems kinda silly to me.if they want Quinn to have reps with Edwards, just give Quinn reps with the entire first team. :ph34r:

 
erymer said:
Bobcat10 said:
So how long will our rags and radio stiffs keep harping on Braylon for missing one voluntary practice and now running routes on the 3rd team? This is not a story at this time, media lowlifes.
Key Word right there.... Voluntarywasn't he at the charity function he just set up for the kids scholarship funds. The media applaud's him for setting up the charity and it's major news. He misses a voluntary workout and now he's a cancer again. Gimmie a break. Again.....this is a non story. Braylon will break out this year.
It supposedly was not charity....personal issue that was unavoidable or something like that.Maybe he's working with the third team to get more reps with a certain QB? Hmmm, they'd never think of that though.
good point, but that seems kinda silly to me.if they want Quinn to have reps with Edwards, just give Quinn reps with the entire first team. :lmao:
I thought Braylon also took reps with the 2nd team, as did Wilson. Seems to me they are just having the WRs go through and work with every QB on the roster for now. That would make sense as it's an open QB competition. Let all three QBs get a chance to toss around now and then make them fight for it in camp.
 

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