2007 Great QB Debate (1 Viewer)

[Bojang0301]

Since people have been discussing this in other threads I figure we could kind of get down to business here since this debate will continue until the draft. Quinn and Smith are Seniors, Russell is rumored to have highered an agent and it is unknown what Brohm will do. I have listed my favorites in order and given a little analysis please feel free to add your own since I have limited exposure to three of these four.

First off, I'm not gonna lie. I have seen the entire of Troy Smith's collegiate career, after that I've seen plenty of Brady Quinn and some Brohm. I've only seen Russell once.

My personal order would be Smith, Russell, Brohm and then Quinn. Now, before people call me crazy for putting Smith on top I do have to admit that I probably have some blinders on right now which will probably come off before the draft.

My Take:

T. Smith

Comparison: Drew Brees

Strengths: This guy has done nothing but impress me for the past two seasons as a starter. He has been rediculous when starting against ranked opponents and in big time games and really seems to be a hard worker. His development and maturity as a passer this season reminds me a great deal of how McNabb developed from a scrambler into a pocket passer. Smith has plenty of mobility and uses it when needed combined with heady play backed up with great efficiency. Was a leader to the Buckeyes and have propeled them to a National Championship game, no way this team would be this caliber with Justin Zwick at the helm.

Weaknesses: Size, will probably messer 6' even at best. NFL scouts and coaches will be concerned with size as short QB's drafted early have had minimal success. Played with outstanding tools around him. For the past two years his Oline, his RB's and his WR's have been full of 1st day picks. Did this boost his play?

Jamarcus Russell

Comparison: Daunte Culpepper

Strengths: Big time arm. Flings the ball 50 yards on a rope like it's nobodies business. Bigger than most linebackers and probably about as fast as any too. Can run them over and also make some moves. No worries about the height since he is 6'6. Mobile in the pocket and makes plays when things break down.

Weaknesses: Relies on arm too much and forces throws. Tends to take bigger hits which is was the downfall to his comparison. Put up stinkers against Auburn and Florida in his biggest games this season. Looks like he smoothed out some this year too as he was hovering around a 60% completion last year and a 67% this year.

Brian Brohm

Comparison: Jay Cutler

Strengths: Prototypical QB. Has the height, arm and head you look for in your QB. Looked like the leader of Louisville and gives them a chance in every game they play. Has adequate mobility. Great pocket awareness.

Weakness: Limited time as a starter. Split last year and was injured this year which means there isn't a whole lot to go off but has player well when in the spotlight.

Brady Quinn

Comparison: Carson Palmer

Strengths: Prototypical QB. Has a great arm and size. He's been in an NFL offense for two seasons under a highly respected offense/QB guru in Charlie Weiss. Is more mobile than people give him credit for and can make plays with his feet when plays break down.

Weaknesses: When he is pressured or nervous his game breaks down. He lofts balls too high and makes it hard for his WR's. While he is mobile and has a good feel for the pocket he struggles mightily with throwing the ball on the run. I have wonders if will have stuggles with the short game in the NFL where many QB's live or die. Has failed on the biggest stages and seems to put too much on himself in big games.

Well, these are mine. I would be more than happy to hear what others have to say. I have to say, I will probably argue most about Smith since I am most familiar with him. I am far from an expert, all these guys have something I like and my biggest question marks are with Quinn.

**Edited to add bold

 

[trader jake]

Quinn v. Russell

...

...

TSmith

...

...

Brohm

What makes Brohm any different than a hundred other QB's from high-octane spread offenses? He might be a solid pro (like Alex Smith) but these QB's don't typically pan out well in the NFL. In the late 1st/2nd round I'd take Troy Smith over him in a heartbeat. He has the physical tools, the leadership abilities, and has played his best in the biggest games (and we'll see one more example on Monday).

Quinn vs. Russell is the real debate here.

 

[diesel7982]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

 

[aposulli]

Nice analysis.

I don't think Brohm will come out this year.

I do think Troy Smith will go in Round 1, even if he scales out under 6'. Will be a solid pro, more of a winner than a Superstar ala Mark Brunell in his prime.

I think alot of people will be convinced that Quinn is a bust, and while he's no Brady, I think he'll go top 4 and be a Pro Bowl QB someday.

I think Russell is on his way to #1 as long as no red flags come up (Wonderlic anyone?). His career on the other hand could go any which way depending on his situation (see Culpepper).

 

[aposulli]

T. Smith Comparison: Seneca WallaceShouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

Aside from the fact that they have about the same height and build and are black.. ??Seneca is more like Antwaan Randle El.Troy Smith brings intangibles, experience in tons of big games, accuracy and pocket presence that Wallace can't touch.

 

[Raider Nation]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

Jaworski said that Smith is Drew Brees with more athletic ability. All Jaws does is break down coaches tape all day. I'm inclined to defer to him in these matters. I personally want OAK to grab a lineman in round 1, and come back with Smif in R2.

 

[Bojang0301]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

But it's late and I'll bite... Troy Smith is 4th in Passer Rating

...10th in Completion Percentage

...5th in Passing TD's

...is 12th in YPA

...has a 6 to 1 TD/INT Ratio

Seneca Wallace senior stats

2002 443 244 55.1 3,245 15 18

2002 123 437 3.6 8

Troy Smith senior stats

2006 199 297 2507 67.0 30 5

2005 136 611 4.5 11

 

[Bojang0301]

T. Smith Comparison: Seneca WallaceShouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

Aside from the fact that they have about the same height and build and are black.. ??Seneca is more like Antwaan Randle El.Troy Smith brings intangibles, experience in tons of big games, accuracy and pocket presence that Wallace can't touch.

Agreed... Smith can wing it. The thing I love about Smith is he is always looking downfield. He doesn't rely on himself he knows that others should be making plays too and he is looking to do that which is what a good QB does. ESPN has him listed at 6'1... I think if he measures in at 6 or above, teams should have a hard reason to pass on him.

 

[Bojang0301]

Quinn v. Russell......TSmith......BrohmWhat makes Brohm any different than a hundred other QB's from high-octane spread offenses? He might be a solid pro (like Alex Smith) but these QB's don't typically pan out well in the NFL. In the late 1st/2nd round I'd take Troy Smith over him in a heartbeat. He has the physical tools, the leadership abilities, and has played his best in the biggest games (and we'll see one more example on Monday).Quinn vs. Russell is the real debate here.

Brohm came in highly touted. IIRC, he is a coaches son and has everything you look for in a QB and has put up the stats to boot. Actually no that I think about it he reminds me of Jason Cambell with a better resume.

 

[diesel7982]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

But it's late and I'll bite... Troy Smith is 4th in Passer Rating

...10th in Completion Percentage

...5th in Passing TD's

...is 12th in YPA

...has a 6 to 1 TD/INT Ratio

Seneca Wallace senior stats

2002 443 244 55.1 3,245 15 18

2002 123 437 3.6 8

Troy Smith senior stats

2006 199 297 2507 67.0 30 5

2005 136 611 4.5 11

Are you really throwing out college stats as an argument? Yikes.I was thinking more in line with what Seneca Wallace was this year, not what he was in college. Hes a SHORT, mobile guy with a decent, but not great arm. Smith may have more "intangibles", but I dont think thats going to make him worthy of being drafted in the top 2 rounds, though he assuredly will with the hype surrounding him.

Edit to add: Ive got no reason to dislike Smith, but from seeing him play, he looks like a player who has been vastly overhyped because of his athletic ability and the great talent in the positions surrounding him.

When watching your clip there, I still saw the things I dont like about him:

Judging from the players around him, he looks to be 5'10 or 5'11.

He cannot throw an NFL "out" pattern. Most of the ones he threw in that reel would be pick-six throws in the NFL.

He has great running ability, but chooses to use it as soon as his pocket breaks down, rather than standing in and making the throw. -- This isnt an issue in college, but will be in the NFL, where his All-American OL won't be dominating other Defensive Lines most of the time, and he won't be fast enough to consistently scramble away from NFL linebackers, rather than the future fry cooks and insurance salesmen he was running away from in a few of those highlight reel runs.

His deep ball is very inconsistent. Not in its accuracy, but in its velocity. He makes better throws when hes pressured and launches one. When he sits back in the pocket and goes deep, the ball tends to sail on him. Not really an issue in college since Ginn is usually open by 10 yards, but again, will be an issue in the NFL.

Overall, I think Smith is a very good college QB, who has no place being a future starter in the NFL.

 

[Bojang0301]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

But it's late and I'll bite... Troy Smith is 4th in Passer Rating

...10th in Completion Percentage

...5th in Passing TD's

...is 12th in YPA

...has a 6 to 1 TD/INT Ratio

Seneca Wallace senior stats

2002 443 244 55.1 3,245 15 18

2002 123 437 3.6 8

Troy Smith senior stats

2006 199 297 2507 67.0 30 5

2005 136 611 4.5 11

What are your feelings on Vince Young?... Yes, I am going there.

 

[Hunterbeer]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

But it's late and I'll bite... Troy Smith is 4th in Passer Rating

...10th in Completion Percentage

...5th in Passing TD's

...is 12th in YPA

...has a 6 to 1 TD/INT Ratio

Seneca Wallace senior stats

2002 443 244 55.1 3,245 15 18

2002 123 437 3.6 8

Troy Smith senior stats

2006 199 297 2507 67.0 30 5

2005 136 611 4.5 11

Hmm, Young is at least 6" taller, more athletic, and has a stronger arm. Smith is a GREAT college QB, a la Doug Flutie, but that is it.Oh, and Young put up better PASSING stats without the benefit of at least one (Ginn), if not two (Gonzalez), first round WRs like Smith has had.

 

[diesel7982]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

But it's late and I'll bite... Troy Smith is 4th in Passer Rating

...10th in Completion Percentage

...5th in Passing TD's

...is 12th in YPA

...has a 6 to 1 TD/INT Ratio

Seneca Wallace senior stats

2002 443 244 55.1 3,245 15 18

2002 123 437 3.6 8

Troy Smith senior stats

2006 199 297 2507 67.0 30 5

2005 136 611 4.5 11

Ill search around and try to find some quotes, but I was a big fan. Vince is and was a once-in-a-generation player, Troy Smith is a college QB that you'll see a few of every year, it just depends on who his surrounding talent is as to whether or not you notice them.

 

[diesel7982]

I hope whoever thinks Vince Young can't be an NFL QB is watching tonight.  Hes outplaying Leinart and looking good doing it.

The play on 3rd down where he threw off one tackler and then stood up and threw a pass with a guy wrapped around him was just awesome, even if it didnt get a first down.  He looks like Culpepper out there.  No one can tackle him on the first try.

I've rated Young higher than Leinart all year. I've seen nothing so far tonight to change that. I would like to see Vince go downfield a little more, but he is wicked good in the short game.

Ive said it quite a few times, and Ill continue it here: Id love to see Young as a Titan if he comes out. Seems quite realistic.

Thats the best I can do for you. As a Titans fan, I think that makes my feelings on Vince pretty clear.EDIT: Bonus props to Chaos Commish for making the right call here too.

 

[Bojang0301]

T. Smith

Comparison: Seneca Wallace

Shouldnt be listed anywhere near the other 3.

But it's late and I'll bite... Troy Smith is 4th in Passer Rating

...10th in Completion Percentage

...5th in Passing TD's

...is 12th in YPA

...has a 6 to 1 TD/INT Ratio

Seneca Wallace senior stats

2002 443 244 55.1 3,245 15 18

2002 123 437 3.6 8

Troy Smith senior stats

2006 199 297 2507 67.0 30 5

2005 136 611 4.5 11

I'm not comparing the two as athletes. They arn't the same... I'm not that dumb. I just wanted to say that Smith is just a notch below Young in the intangibles he carries. Smith has picked up his teammates and lead them. He made some mistakes early in his career but has learned... the same can be said about his game.BTW, I'm willing to bet that Smith is more than just a great college QB.

 

[Bojang0301]

I hope whoever thinks Vince Young can't be an NFL QB is watching tonight.  Hes outplaying Leinart and looking good doing it.

The play on 3rd down where he threw off one tackler and then stood up and threw a pass with a guy wrapped around him was just awesome, even if it didnt get a first down.  He looks like Culpepper out there.  No one can tackle him on the first try.

I've rated Young higher than Leinart all year. I've seen nothing so far tonight to change that. I would like to see Vince go downfield a little more, but he is wicked good in the short game.

Ive said it quite a few times, and Ill continue it here: Id love to see Young as a Titan if he comes out. Seems quite realistic.

Thats the best I can do for you. As a Titans fan, I think that makes my feelings on Vince pretty clear.EDIT: Bonus props to Chaos Commish for making the right call here too.

I just wanted to state that I think Troy is a great leader just a notch below what Vince is. I don't think he can just lift a team up like Vince can... but his work ethic and the way players around him got better because he was in is similar.

 

[diesel7982]

I hope whoever thinks Vince Young can't be an NFL QB is watching tonight.  Hes outplaying Leinart and looking good doing it.

The play on 3rd down where he threw off one tackler and then stood up and threw a pass with a guy wrapped around him was just awesome, even if it didnt get a first down.  He looks like Culpepper out there.  No one can tackle him on the first try.

I've rated Young higher than Leinart all year. I've seen nothing so far tonight to change that. I would like to see Vince go downfield a little more, but he is wicked good in the short game.

Ive said it quite a few times, and Ill continue it here: Id love to see Young as a Titan if he comes out. Seems quite realistic.

Thats the best I can do for you. As a Titans fan, I think that makes my feelings on Vince pretty clear.EDIT: Bonus props to Chaos Commish for making the right call here too.

I just wanted to state that I think Troy is a great leader just a notch below what Vince is. I don't think he can just lift a team up like Vince can... but his work ethic and the way players around him got better because he was in is similar.

I dont disagree that Troy Smith isnt a great guy or a great leader...I just think hes a college QB who's weaknesses were able to be masked in the college game, but will become all too apparent in the pros.

 

[Colin Dowling]

No Drew Stanton? Hm...

 

[Raider Nation]

Vince is and was a once-in-a-generation player

This guy disagrees.

OFFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR

There's no doubt that Tennessee quarterback Vince Young can run with the best of ‘em. He ran past defenses throughout his rookie campaign, and he ran away with the Offensive Rookie of the Year award yesterday.

He’s a great talent – but clearly the wrong choice for the honor in the eyes of the Cold, Hard Football Facts. In some years, when the rookie class has been so-so, Young could be the pick – but in this Year of the Rookie?

Hell no.

Young got an awful lot of credit for Tennessee’s unexpected 8-8 finish, but the Cold, Hard Football Facts tell us much of this credit was undue.

Cold, Hard Football Fact: Young had a terrible season as a passer. His final passer rating of 66.7 was 30th in the league – worse than Brad Johnson, worse than Charlie Frye, worse than Joey Harrington. This alone should disqualify him from contention for any postseason honor, regardless of his wonderful running ability (552 yards, 6.7 YPA).

Cold, Hard Football Fact: The Tennessee offense was not very good. The Titans finished 16th in the NFL in scoring, which sounds decent until you consider their eight touchdowns on returns. They ranked 27th in yards (300.6), 26th in offensive TDs (28) and 31st in TD passes (13). Only the historically inept Raiders scored fewer TDs through the air.

Cold, Hard Football Fact: Tennessee’s six-game win streak would not have been so impressive without a historic performance by the Titans defense. Remember, it was the defense that scored three TDs in a 24-17 mid-December win over Jacksonville. The Tennessee offense that day accounted for just five first downs, 98 total yards and held the ball for 15 minutes and 38 seconds.

Were the Titans a surprise 8-8? Sure. Was Young exciting? Yes. If there’s an Offensive Rookie Who Surprised You and Excited You Award, Young is our pick.

But there isn’t, and he’s not.

So who is the Offensive Rookie of the Year? Here’s a hint: He was the best rookie on the best team in the league.

It’s Marcus McNeill, the beefy (336 pounds) offensive tackle out of Auburn who anchored the all-important “blind side” of the San Diego offensive line.

McNeill is no ordinary offensive linemen: He’s the starting left tackle for the best offensive line in football (No. 1 in our Hog Index), for the best offense in football (30.75 PPG), and for the record-setting best running back in football (San Diego Superman LaDainian Tomlinson).

You'll see no highlights of our OT, unless you break down game film in your spare time. But he got plenty of results.

Cold, Hard Football Facts Top 5 Offensive Rookie of the Year candidates:

1. McNeill.

2. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville. He led all running backs with an average of 6.5 yards every time he touched the ball on offense, averaged 5.7 YPA on the ground and scored 15 touchdowns. That’s excellence, folks. Oh, and for good measure, he averaged 27.7 yards per kick return.

3. Marques Colston, New Orleans. He was the early runaway candidate for Offensive Rookie of the Year before losing time to injury. Still, he finished with 70 catches, 1,038 yards and 8 TDs in what amounted to 12 games.

4. Young, Tennessee.

5. Reggie Bush, New Orleans. He didn’t have spectacular numbers, but his presence on the field made a huge impact for one of the surprise teams of the year.

 

[diesel7982]

Vince is and was a once-in-a-generation player

This guy disagrees.

OFFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR

There's no doubt that Tennessee quarterback Vince Young can run with the best of ‘em. He ran past defenses throughout his rookie campaign, and he ran away with the Offensive Rookie of the Year award yesterday.

He’s a great talent – but clearly the wrong choice for the honor in the eyes of the Cold, Hard Football Facts. In some years, when the rookie class has been so-so, Young could be the pick – but in this Year of the Rookie?

Hell no.

Young got an awful lot of credit for Tennessee’s unexpected 8-8 finish, but the Cold, Hard Football Facts tell us much of this credit was undue.

Cold, Hard Football Fact: Young had a terrible season as a passer. His final passer rating of 66.7 was 30th in the league – worse than Brad Johnson, worse than Charlie Frye, worse than Joey Harrington. This alone should disqualify him from contention for any postseason honor, regardless of his wonderful running ability (552 yards, 6.7 YPA).

Cold, Hard Football Fact: The Tennessee offense was not very good. The Titans finished 16th in the NFL in scoring, which sounds decent until you consider their eight touchdowns on returns. They ranked 27th in yards (300.6), 26th in offensive TDs (28) and 31st in TD passes (13). Only the historically inept Raiders scored fewer TDs through the air.

Cold, Hard Football Fact: Tennessee’s six-game win streak would not have been so impressive without a historic performance by the Titans defense. Remember, it was the defense that scored three TDs in a 24-17 mid-December win over Jacksonville. The Tennessee offense that day accounted for just five first downs, 98 total yards and held the ball for 15 minutes and 38 seconds.

Were the Titans a surprise 8-8? Sure. Was Young exciting? Yes. If there’s an Offensive Rookie Who Surprised You and Excited You Award, Young is our pick.

But there isn’t, and he’s not.

So who is the Offensive Rookie of the Year? Here’s a hint: He was the best rookie on the best team in the league.

It’s Marcus McNeill, the beefy (336 pounds) offensive tackle out of Auburn who anchored the all-important “blind side” of the San Diego offensive line.

McNeill is no ordinary offensive linemen: He’s the starting left tackle for the best offensive line in football (No. 1 in our Hog Index), for the best offense in football (30.75 PPG), and for the record-setting best running back in football (San Diego Superman LaDainian Tomlinson).

You'll see no highlights of our OT, unless you break down game film in your spare time. But he got plenty of results.

Cold, Hard Football Facts Top 5 Offensive Rookie of the Year candidates:

1. McNeill.

2. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville. He led all running backs with an average of 6.5 yards every time he touched the ball on offense, averaged 5.7 YPA on the ground and scored 15 touchdowns. That’s excellence, folks. Oh, and for good measure, he averaged 27.7 yards per kick return.

3. Marques Colston, New Orleans. He was the early runaway candidate for Offensive Rookie of the Year before losing time to injury. Still, he finished with 70 catches, 1,038 yards and 8 TDs in what amounted to 12 games.

4. Young, Tennessee.

5. Reggie Bush, New Orleans. He didn’t have spectacular numbers, but his presence on the field made a huge impact for one of the surprise teams of the year.

"Once in a generation" meant his physical ability and talents. We may see 1 guy a year that resembles Peyton Manning, but a guy like Vince Young with his size, speed and arm strength isnt going to appear that often. That article is awful, btw. Who wrote that? Id almost want to say LHUCKS, but even LHUCKS writes with less bias than whoever that is.

Looks like the author is a guy named Jonathan Corney...no clue who that is.

 

[The Jacket]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.

Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

 

[aposulli]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

 

[ILoveMyLions]

No Drew Stanton? Hm...

In terms of value, I'd rather spend a high 3rd on Stanton than a high 1st on Quinn. I think Quinn will be a bust and if you spend a high pick like that on a player, it sets your franchise back. If you lose out on a 3rd rounder, you can come back a year or so later and take another QB high in the draft. Stanton should be in the discussion as he is likely the 5th (4th if Brohm stays) QB off the board.

 

[Chris Smith]

No Drew Stanton? Hm...

In terms of value, I'd rather spend a high 3rd on Stanton than a high 1st on Quinn. I think Quinn will be a bust and if you spend a high pick like that on a player, it sets your franchise back. If you lose out on a 3rd rounder, you can come back a year or so later and take another QB high in the draft. Stanton should be in the discussion as he is likely the 5th (4th if Brohm stays) QB off the board.

I think in terms of NFL potential, Stanton has the same chance of success as does Quinn without the pressure that goes along with being an early pick. Stanton maybe the most underrated quarterback to come out this season...In terms of the 'great debate', to me it isn't even a question...Russell is way out in front this year. He is in a tier all by himself. He is one of those quarterbacks that emerge only once every couple of years with all the tools to be a great player. Arm strength and size Leftwich, mobile enough to avoid defenders and appears to be very solid at reading opposing defenses. He is going to be an outstanding pro if he gets into the right situation.Brady Quinn to me is not nearly as promising a pro. He may have a solid career but I don't see a future star at all.

 

[Bojang0301]

Drew Stanton? Man that guy is widly inconsistent. He needs so much work why should he be discussed with the top guys? He's like Charlie Whitehurst last year.

 

[Biabreakable]

I like Seneca Wallace The walrus seems to see somthing in him too.

 

[ILoveMyLions]

Drew Stanton? Man that guy is widly inconsistent. He needs so much work why should he be discussed with the top guys? He's like Charlie Whitehurst last year.

He is inconsistent, but he has shown enough to be a solid NFL QB IMO. He has the height, size, arm strength, toughness, mobility, accuracy and leadership skills that teams look for. The question on him has been durability and the mental game. If he goes to a team that can have an average OL, which they didn't have at MSU; has a decent game plan with solid coaching, which he didn't have at MSU, then he could succeed. I see no reason why he can't do well in the right setting...much like Quinn. However, I don't see either as the savior of a franchise...The point is I'd rather spend a 3rd on him than a 1st on Quinn...

 

[MSULions]

Drew Stanton? Man that guy is widly inconsistent. He needs so much work why should he be discussed with the top guys? He's like Charlie Whitehurst last year.

He is inconsistent, but he has shown enough to be a solid NFL QB IMO. He has the height, size, arm strength, toughness, mobility, accuracy and leadership skills that teams look for. The question on him has been durability and the mental game. If he goes to a team that can have an average OL, which they didn't have at MSU; has a decent game plan with solid coaching, which he didn't have at MSU, then he could succeed. I see no reason why he can't do well in the right setting...much like Quinn. However, I don't see either as the savior of a franchise...The point is I'd rather spend a 3rd on him than a 1st on Quinn...

If the Spartans had ANYone other than John L. the last two years, Stanton would have been in NY for the Heisman festivities. Even with that tard of a coach, he was being discussed as a surefire first rounder before the ND game and the wheels came off the season.

 

[Raagsreth]

Drew Stanton? Man that guy is widly inconsistent. He needs so much work why should he be discussed with the top guys? He's like Charlie Whitehurst last year.

He is inconsistent, but he has shown enough to be a solid NFL QB IMO. He has the height, size, arm strength, toughness, mobility, accuracy and leadership skills that teams look for. The question on him has been durability and the mental game. If he goes to a team that can have an average OL, which they didn't have at MSU; has a decent game plan with solid coaching, which he didn't have at MSU, then he could succeed. I see no reason why he can't do well in the right setting...much like Quinn. However, I don't see either as the savior of a franchise...The point is I'd rather spend a 3rd on him than a 1st on Quinn...

If the Spartans had ANYone other than John L. the last two years, Stanton would have been in NY for the Heisman festivities. Even with that tard of a coach, he was being discussed as a surefire first rounder before the ND game and the wheels came off the season.

Stanton fell under bad circumstances this year, he's got the tools to be special in the NFL.

 

[diesel7982]

I like Seneca Wallace The walrus seems to see somthing in him too.

I like him too, but is he a 1st round pick? Does he deserve to be mentioned with Russel and Quinn?Wallace and potentially Smith are guys that can be solid backups, maybe an effective spot starter, but with the limitations in each's game, I cant see either ever becoming a full-time starter.

 

[Kleck]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

I agree with The Jacket.

 

[Bojang0301]

I like Seneca Wallace The walrus seems to see somthing in him too.

I like him too, but is he a 1st round pick? Does he deserve to be mentioned with Russel and Quinn?Wallace and potentially Smith are guys that can be solid backups, maybe an effective spot starter, but with the limitations in each's game, I cant see either ever becoming a full-time starter.

I'm still going to argue that Smith is way farther along in his development as a passer. Combine that with his athletic skills and leadership I certainly do believe he is a first rounder and someone a team can hang their hat on. As stated before in this thread he is basically a more athletic Drew Brees which I would take in a heartbeat.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

T. Smith

Comparison: Drew Brees

Jamarcus Russell

Comparison: Daunte Culpepper

Brian Brohm

Comparison: Jay Cutler

Brady Quinn

Comparison: Carson Palmer

**Edited to add bold

I like the first two comparisons, not so much the second two. Brohm reminds me more of Peyton or Warner. A big cerebral QB that has eerie accuracy at times, but is a mere mortal under pressure. I can't figure out an acceptable comparison for Quinn yet, but he's not a sturdy pocket passer with a lethal arm (Palmer). He's more like *gasp* Harrington or Carr or Brady (mainly because of the things he's asked to do in the Weis offense), but I hate comparing him to Harrington/Carr because they are both busts, and I don't want to make it seem like I am saying he's an automatic bust, and not Brady, because Brady is extremely tough mentally, while Quinn is probably not.

 

[Biabreakable]

I like Seneca Wallace The walrus seems to see somthing in him too.

I like him too, but is he a 1st round pick? Does he deserve to be mentioned with Russel and Quinn?Wallace and potentially Smith are guys that can be solid backups, maybe an effective spot starter, but with the limitations in each's game, I cant see either ever becoming a full-time starter.

I'm still going to argue that Smith is way farther along in his development as a passer. Combine that with his athletic skills and leadership I certainly do believe he is a first rounder and someone a team can hang their hat on. As stated before in this thread he is basically a more athletic Drew Brees which I would take in a heartbeat.

Wallace was a 4th round pick the 7th Qb drafted in 2003.1 1 1 1 Carson Palmer Bengals USC 2 1 7 7 Byron Leftwich Jaguars Marshall 3 1 19 19 Kyle Boller Ravens California 4 1 22 22 Rex Grossman Bears Florida 5 3 24 88 Dave Ragone Texans Louisville 6 3 33 97 Chris Simms Buccaneers Texas 7 4 13 110 Seneca Wallace Seahawks Iowa State He is short for a Qb is the main reason I think he fell. But he is a poor mans Mike Vick. This guy can run. And he might be a better passer than Vick is too. You have to build your offense around him because of his height with lots of roll outs but I think he could be a effective Qb if the offense was built around him.Troy Smith seems to be a better passer and not as small as Wallace so it may not be as big of a problem with him. Its hard to tell how good of a passer he is because of the other talent he has had on offense though.He does look like a better prospect than Wallace though and I think Wallace was worth more than a 4th round pick. I think he is better than Ragone or Simms.

 

[Bojang0301]

T. Smith

Comparison: Drew Brees

Jamarcus Russell

Comparison: Daunte Culpepper

Brian Brohm

Comparison: Jay Cutler

Brady Quinn

Comparison: Carson Palmer

**Edited to add bold

I like the first two comparisons, not so much the second two. Brohm reminds me more of Peyton or Warner. A big cerebral QB that has eerie accuracy at times, but is a mere mortal under pressure. I can't figure out an acceptable comparison for Quinn yet, but he's not a sturdy pocket passer with a lethal arm (Palmer). He's more like *gasp* Harrington or Carr or Brady (mainly because of the things he's asked to do in the Weis offense), but I hate comparing him to Harrington/Carr because they are both busts, and I don't want to make it seem like I am saying he's an automatic bust, and not Brady, because Brady is extremely tough mentally, while Quinn is probably not.

I was going to compare Quinn to Harrington because his lofty throws and mismanagement of the intermediate game but I figured I would take heat for it. So props to you for saying it.Edit to add: I was going to compare Brohm to Manning but once again figure I would get hell for that being to good of a comparison.

 

[gzilla]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.

Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

Culpepper's arm isn't nearly as strong as Russel's. At the risk of getting labeled a racist for comparing Russell to another black man, I think physically Leftwich is a better comparison...only Russell is more mobile. He's not nearly as mobile as a healthy Culpepper though. Russell will be a pocket passer in the NFL.If you need a comparison to a white QB, think about a young Drew Bledsoe...with more mobility and a stronger arm.

 

[Biabreakable]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

Culpepper's arm isn't nearly as strong as Russel's.

What what?

 

[gzilla]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

Culpepper's arm isn't nearly as strong as Russel's.

What what?

Well, if you haven't seen much of Russell, you are going to be impressed by the arm.He's got some question marks, but he'll enter the league with the best arm in the league.

 

[Bojang0301]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.

Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

Culpepper's arm isn't nearly as strong as Russel's. At the risk of getting labeled a racist for comparing Russell to another black man, I think physically Leftwich is a better comparison...only Russell is more mobile. He's not nearly as mobile as a healthy Culpepper though. Russell will be a pocket passer in the NFL.If you need a comparison to a white QB, think about a young Drew Bledsoe...with more mobility and a stronger arm.

Russell is more mobile than you give him credit for. I don't like the Leftwich comparison because a) Lefty has a unique wind up throwing motion whereas Russell has a quick flick more in the wrist b) Lefty can't move at all whereas Russell has some wiggle and some speed to boot. He is a less mobile, taller Culpeper and as for having a bigger arm I think that point is moot. They are probably even but Russell has the biggest arm in the draft.

 

[Assani Fisher]

My opinions:

Russell- superstar

Quinn- bust

Brohm- very good QB for many years, a few pro bowl years

Smith- good career as a backup QB and spot starter

 

[gzilla]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.

Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

Culpepper's arm isn't nearly as strong as Russel's. At the risk of getting labeled a racist for comparing Russell to another black man, I think physically Leftwich is a better comparison...only Russell is more mobile. He's not nearly as mobile as a healthy Culpepper though. Russell will be a pocket passer in the NFL.If you need a comparison to a white QB, think about a young Drew Bledsoe...with more mobility and a stronger arm.

Russell is more mobile than you give him credit for. I don't like the Leftwich comparison because a) Lefty has a unique wind up throwing motion whereas Russell has a quick flick more in the wrist b) Lefty can't move at all whereas Russell has some wiggle and some speed to boot. He is a less mobile, taller Culpeper and as for having a bigger arm I think that point is moot. They are probably even but Russell has the biggest arm in the draft.

Your opinion of Russell makes me think you haven't seem him play much. He is not slow, but he is slow to get started. The guy is 6'6" so it's to be expected. He'll make his money as a pocket passer in the league and if he's on a team with a poor OL, he will struggle (moreso than a mobile QB). The comparison to Culpepper is a poor one IMO, because Culpepper was probably 2nd to Vick in mobility and ability to tuck the ball and run when he was healthy.I do agree with you about the delivery. Russell has a much nicer deliver than Leftwich. However, the similarities are that both will stay in the pocket and deliver the ball downfield. Both will hang in the pocket too long sometimes. And, both will try to make plays with players draped on them. I agree that Leftwich's speed does not compare to Russell's.

 

[Bojang0301]

Russell's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Culpepper.

Just not the same skin color, so everyone goes Culpepper.

Russell's size and arm are identical to Culpepper's. Roethlisberger has nowhere near the cannon as those two.

Culpepper's arm isn't nearly as strong as Russel's. At the risk of getting labeled a racist for comparing Russell to another black man, I think physically Leftwich is a better comparison...only Russell is more mobile. He's not nearly as mobile as a healthy Culpepper though. Russell will be a pocket passer in the NFL.If you need a comparison to a white QB, think about a young Drew Bledsoe...with more mobility and a stronger arm.

Russell is more mobile than you give him credit for. I don't like the Leftwich comparison because a) Lefty has a unique wind up throwing motion whereas Russell has a quick flick more in the wrist b) Lefty can't move at all whereas Russell has some wiggle and some speed to boot. He is a less mobile, taller Culpeper and as for having a bigger arm I think that point is moot. They are probably even but Russell has the biggest arm in the draft.

Your opinion of Russell makes me think you haven't seem him play much. He is not slow, but he is slow to get started. The guy is 6'6" so it's to be expected. He'll make his money as a pocket passer in the league and if he's on a team with a poor OL, he will struggle (moreso than a mobile QB). The comparison to Culpepper is a poor one IMO, because Culpepper was probably 2nd to Vick in mobility and ability to tuck the ball and run when he was healthy.I do agree with you about the delivery. Russell has a much nicer deliver than Leftwich. However, the similarities are that both will stay in the pocket and deliver the ball downfield. Both will hang in the pocket too long sometimes. And, both will try to make plays with players draped on them. I agree that Leftwich's speed does not compare to Russell's.

The comparison is not about race... I compared Smith to Brees, which is like comparing Wesley Snipes to an albino. The kid isn't like Leftwich he is too mobile to be like Leftwich. I guess it is pointless to argue about a comparison so I'll say this for those who may take the Culpepper comparison too literally... He is about a 4.75/4.8 guy who can be shifty in the pocket and take on some tacklers. He does not have the open field moves of Pepper but has a cannon similar to Pepper. Maybe there isn't an appropriate comparison to Russell. He is bigger than both Leftwich and Pepper... we'll see.

 

[Biabreakable]

gzilla,

You do know that Culpepper can throw the ball 70 yards on a rope right?

I do not know anything about Russell. But forgive me for being skeptical of Russell having comparable arm strength to Culpepper. That would be simply amazing.

 

[Bojang0301]

gzilla,You do know that Culpepper can throw the ball 70 yards on a rope right?I do not know anything about Russell. But forgive me for being skeptical of Russell having comparable arm strength to Culpepper. That would be simply amazing.

Russell is pretty close. He had an amazing throw in the Bowl game where he threw it 30/40 yards without having either foot on the ground.

 

[Bojang0301]

Perfect example of his arm strength and why he isn't Leftwich

 

[Colin Dowling]

gzilla,You do know that Culpepper can throw the ball 70 yards on a rope right?I do not know anything about Russell. But forgive me for being skeptical of Russell having comparable arm strength to Culpepper. That would be simply amazing.

Prepare to be amazed. Russell = Culpepper. I hate that that's the comparison, but it's a good one - he's big, somewhat mobile, and has a tremendously strong arm. QUinn = Chris Simms. Good arm, great presence and ability until the pressure's on, at which point he looks lost. QUinn will be a decent NFL QB in 3 years. Good, not great.Smith = Brees. Fair comparison, although I think Smith's arm is a bit stronger at this point then Brees's was.Stanton = Orton, Delhomme (at times). Not everyone is going to be a superstar. Some guys just end up being functional passers.

 

[Benchwarmers]

Hope some of you take either Smith or Stanton in my fantasy rookie draft this year! I think if you can get Smith in the late 2nd (24pick) he is good value. Taking him ahead of all those rbs, wrs, dl, lb, s might be foolish. Stanton is the 3rd might even be a reach. Might change my mind after the workouts.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Perfect example of his arm strength and why he isn't Leftwich

That wasn't even a spiral...

 

[Biabreakable]

Perfect example of his arm strength and why he isn't Leftwich

That is not a rope.

 

[gzilla]

gzilla,You do know that Culpepper can throw the ball 70 yards on a rope right?I do not know anything about Russell. But forgive me for being skeptical of Russell having comparable arm strength to Culpepper. That would be simply amazing.

About Culpepper, I'd like to see some video of what you are talking about. I've always thought Culpepper's arm was overrated (not bad mind you, but overrated). I don't care to argue that however. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Like the other poster said, prepare to be impressed.