2007 Hall of Fame Candidates...Terrell Davis leads list of newbies (1 Viewer)

[Marc Levin]

JWB -

 

[Ghost Rider]

The other interesting factors are Davis abysmal stats (3.1 YPC) without Elway and Sharpe, when even Olandis Gary (4.2 YPC) outproduces Davis by a full YPC better that very same season. Then there is the Portis Denver factor, where Portis owns Davis stats wise, again with Griese and Plummer...no Elway.

That is not a fair analogy. That YPC of Davis' is based off his performance of less than 4 games, games in which the entire offense was struggling. As the season progressed, Griese got better, the offense got better, and thus, the running game, with Gary, put up better numbers. Plus, in those first 4 games, defenses were geared up to stop the run (to try and make Griese beat them). You can't tell me that defenses were as gung-ho to stop the Denver running game once Davis went out, as Denver's situation didn't have that "anyone can produce in it" repuation yet. But if we want to talk about small samples, let's talk about Super Bowl 32. I challenge anyone to look up and see how many yards the Broncos put up in 1st, 3rd, and 4th quarters (when Davis played). Then go see how many yards they put up in the 2nd quarter (all of which Davis missed, except for the first play of it, Elway's bootleg TD run). You will see quite a difference.

If it wasn't for Davis's postseason accomplishments, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It's just not enough.

Oh. So let's say Tom Brady never wins another Super Bowl and continues to put up similar numbers to what he has thus far. Can we also take away his postseason accomplishments when discussing his HoF worthiness? For me, the bottom line is Davis is possibly the most dominant postseason RB ever (he averaged 5.6 YPC in the postseason, a full yarder higher than his lifetime YPC of 4.6), and, like has been said already, had the greatest three-year run of any RB....EVER.

Well, if Brady's career ended due to injury after 2004, giving him 5 seasons to accommodate the fact that he didn't play as a rookie and get a comparable 4 year sample, he would have had 13,925 passing yards, 97 passing TDs, and 52 interceptions in 64 regular season games. Would such a player merit any HOF consideration based on those numbers? Absolutely not. So it would have been only his postseason accomplishments that would have earned him consideration.Then add Brady's postseason success, including 3 rings, a 9-0 record, 3 rings, and 2 Super Bowl MVPs. It would be an interesting test case to see if he'd get in. I suspect he would have made it, in large part due to the fact that he has been a media darling and because he plays QB, meaning he gets a disproportionate amount of credit for winning. It wouldn't have hurt him that, had his career ended after 2004, he would have become HOF eligible in 2010, in a relatively dead period for HOF QB selections (Aikman in 2006, and no one else but Favre on the horizon).Unfortunately for Davis, he doesn't have quite as compelling a postseason case. In this scenario, Brady would have never lost in the postseason; Davis did, albeit only once. But RBs don't get as much credit for record as QBs anyway. Brady won 3 Super Bowls, Davis 2. More importantly, Brady led the game winning drive in the Super Bowl twice. Brady won 2 Super Bowl MVPs, Davis 1. Brady had an uncompelling surrounding cast, giving a perception that he (and Belichick) "lifted" them; Davis was surrounded by great players.I think it would have been very close for Brady, but he would have gotten in. Good example, but I don't think Davis quite measures up in the postseason.Now... Brady is obviously still playing. So there is every likelihood that he will continue to build a stronger HOF case. So to answer your original question, if he never wins another Super Bowl, he'll still likely make the HOF. But his case will be different than Davis, in that he had the stellar postseason accomplishments while also building a longer career as a Pro Bowl caliber player.And by the way, I never said to "take away" Davis's postseason accomplishments. I said they are his most compelling argument, and they are not enough, given that his career was cut short. I'm not sure why you think I said to take them away.

I agree with much of what you said. You are correct in that QB's and RB's are judged differently off of wins and losses, whether in the regular season or postseason. It also helps that we have seen Brady continue to excel, so we know he is not some mediocre player who lucked into a lucky season or two.

 

[Marc Levin]

ala Dilfer?

 

[Marc Levin]

And yes, I and anyone else will tell you that teams were geared to stopping the Denver run all year that season with essentially a rookie QB at the helm. So the Davis to Gary comparison is valid.

whether or not it is a valid comparison of Davis in his last year is not as valid as whether HOF voters WILL BE considering it - and I guarantee you they won't.Davis is in or out on the strength of years 1-4. Not what he did in year 5 or 6.

 

[Marc Levin]

(in short, save your typewriting finger strength for the arguments that matter - not the ones that don't)

 

[Yitbos69]

I still can't understand why Art Monk is not IN the HOF yet.....IF he is not in this year the HOF is a joke!!!

 

[daddo39]

I still can't understand why Art Monk is not IN the HOF yet.....IF he is not in this year the HOF is a joke!!!

AGREED 100%. If Irvin is voted in ahead of Monk the system of voting is a joke as well. I also don't think a players post season accomplishments should have that much bearing either.Marino never won a Super Bowl & there's no arguing that he is one the best QB's ever.

 

[David Yudkin]

I again don't fully agree with Marc on his free agency = shorter lifespan for a RB. I would argue otherwise. Davis had 1,655 career regular season carries, which ranks him 49th all-time.

Only 7 of the other 48 (OJ Simpson, Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Larry Csonka, Joe Perry, Leroy Kelly, and Lydell Mitchell) retired in or before 1980. The huge majority of those RB played at some point in the past 20 years.

Since Davis entered the league in 1995, there have been 19 RB that had more career carries than Davis:

1 Curtis Martin 3518

2 Jerome Bettis 2866

3 Eddie George 2865

4 Emmitt Smith 2779

5 Marshall Faulk 2522

6 Corey Dillon 2501

7 Edgerrin James 2349

8 Warrick Dunn 2092

9 Tiki Barber 2018

10 Ricky Watters 1969

11 Fred Taylor 1939

12 Stephen Davis 1917

13 LaDainian Tomlinson 1828

14 Antowain Smith 1784

15 Shaun Alexander 1782

16 Ricky Williams 1757

17 Priest Holmes 1734

18 Garrison Hearst 1718

19 Ahman Green rb 1681

Prior to 1995 and TD's first game, there were 19 RB that had retired with as many carries as Davis would go on to have.

It certainly appears that the trend is for RB to get MORE carries, not FEWER carries compared to other eras.

 

[David Yudkin]

As for Davis, he basically had 3 excellent seasons to hang his hat on in the 96-98 window. Here are all the players tha have had 5000 rushing yards in a 3-year stretch.

Terrell Davis 96-98 5296

Eric Dickerson 84-86 5160

Eric Dickerson 83-85 5147

Barry Sanders 95-97 5106

Barry Sanders 96-98 5097

Earl Campbell 78-80 5081

Shaun Alexander 03-05 5011

Earl Campbell 79-81 5007

If we open it up to 6,000 yards from scrimmage, that gives us a few more names . . .

Marshall Faulk 98-00 6845

Marshall Faulk 99-01 6765

Priest Holmes 01-03 6566

LaDainian Tomlinson 02-04 6318

Tiki Barber 03-05 6163

LaDainian Tomlinson 01-03 6145

Marshall Faulk 97-99 6171

Walter Payton 83-85 6114

Terrell Davis 96-98 6110

This is the ore interesting list, IMO, because it almost looks like Barber and Holmes had stretches as good as Davis', so it almost seems like those two need to get in if Davis does.

 

[SouthJersey]

http://www.slate.com/id/2070146/

The Case for CunninghamWhy he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

By Robert Weintraub

Posted Tuesday, Aug. 27, 2002, at 11:20 AM ET

The debate over whether just-retired Terrell Davis belongs in the Hall of Fame has dominated the chattering classes of sport since T.D. announced he was finished a week ago. Obscured has been the recent retirement of a player who will also stir some argument, although to my mind he clearly belongs in the hall—Randall Cunningham.

The NFL MVP award is given out annually by three different entities. Cunningham won the award in 1988, 1990, and 1998—only Jim Brown, Y.A. Tittle, Johnny Unitas, and Brett Favre have been honored in as many years, and they're all in Canton or headed there. Joe Montana won MVPs in only two seasons. Needless to say, Joe Cool didn't have an eight-year gap between awards, nor has anyone else.

When Cunningham was drafted in 1985, black QBs were still a rarity. Doug Williams' historic Super Bowl win was still two years away, and the idea that fast, athletic blacks could succeed at the position was anathema to head coaches around the league. It took Buddy Ryan, a defensive guru who understood the kind of pressure a game-breaker like Cunningham could put on a defense, to prove that a black scrambler could not just survive but thrive in a league increasingly based on speed. Nowadays, with Kordell Stewart, Donovan McNabb, and Michael Vick making a QB who can run or pass seem a necessary part of modern football, it's easy to forget the Mesozoic Era when Randall was a curiosity. Yet it was only 15 years ago.

Click Here!

The big knock against Randall is that he never won or even made it to a Super Bowl. Moreover, he never distinguished himself in the playoffs. Aside from the stunning loss to Atlanta in the 1998 NFC Championship game, which Gary Anderson and the Vikings D blew, Cunningham's most memorable playoff moment was probably the 1988 Fog Bowl loss to the Bears, where he somehow threw for 407 yards but also threw for three crucial INTs. He was actually benched by Buddy during a 1990 playoff loss to the Redskins.

But, boy, did he single-handedly carry the Philadelphia Eagles. Taking over from the lead-footed Ron Jaworski in 1987, Cunningham turned in a spectacular four years that saw him not only average more than 3,000 yards and 24 TDs passing, but also lead the team in rushing, including a staggering 942 yards in 1990, the standing record for quarterbacks.

Cunningham's stats match or beat the Hall of Fame locks of his era. Dan Marino and John Elway played in offenses geared to their passing ability and had almost double Randall's passing attempts, so they racked up bigger numbers. Marino and Elway are ranked 1 and 2 in most all-time passing stats, but Randall is in the top 25, and there are 25 QBs in the hall—you do the math. The all-important yards-per-pass attempt stat is basically equal: Marino 7.3 per attempt, Elway 7.1, Cunningham 7.0. And Cunningham has a better TD-to-INT ratio than Elway, 1.54 to 1.33.

Randall compares more favorably to Troy Aikman, another Canton lock, who played exactly one less game in his career. Aikman, one of history's most accurate passers, beats out Randall in completion percentage (61.5 to 56.6) and has about 3,000 more yards in 500 more attempts. But Randall threw for 42 more TDs and seven fewer INTs, and the yards-per-attempt for both is 7.0. Toss in the rushing (4,928 yards and 35 TDs for Cunningham, 1,016 and nine for Aikman), and Cunningham moves past the Golden Boy.

And whither Warren Moon? The general consensus is that Moon is a Hall of Famer while Randall isn't. The former Oiler racked up huge numbers by throwing on virtually every down, and he ranks just behind Marino and Elway in the accumulated stats. But his TD-to-INT ratio (1.24) is much lower than Cunningham's (1.54). And Moon, hardly a sterling playoff performer, never took his team to a Super Bowl. If Moon belongs in the Hall, so does Randall.

Like Archie Manning, Cunningham racked up his numbers with mediocre supporting casts. His receivers and backs in the Eagle era included the geriatric Herschel Walker, the oft-injured Keith Jackson and Fred Barnett, Keith Byars, and other assorted mediocrities. Only during his comeback with Minnesota—throwing to Cris Carter and Randy Moss, with Robert Smith running through gaping holes—did Randall get in on the fun Montana, Aikman, and Steve Young were having for most of their careers.

About that comeback: In 1998, already knocked out of the game by injuries, the 35-year-old Cunningham left his granite and marble business in Las Vegas and mounted one of the more triumphant and unlikely second acts in NFL history. The nonpareil scrambler reinvented himself as a pure pocket passer. The Vikes set the single-season points record, as Randall threw for more than 3,700 yards and 34 TDs with an astounding 106 QB rating. Cunningham was voted to his fourth Pro Bowl, and Minnesota dominated the league, going 16-1 before falling to Atlanta in the NFC Championship game.

Cunningham had some divine magic in his fast-twitch muscles. Three plays stand out in Randall's pantheon of the miraculous. One comes from a 1990 game against Buffalo, when Cunningham, throwing from his end zone, was about to be engulfed from the blind side by Bruce Smith. Spidey-sense at full tingle, Randall ducked under the flying tackle and heaved a pass 60 yards off his back foot. The result: an unforgettable 95-yard touchdown.

The other two came at the expense of the New York Giants, for whom the late-'80s were a Sisyphean struggle to control No. 12 in green and white. In a 1988 game on Monday Night Football, Giants LB Carl Banks torpedoed in and crunched the Eagle QB at the midriff. Most players would have landed in the third row, but Cunningham managed to twist his body in midair, put a hand down for balance while parallel to the ground, regain his footing, and dive in for the score. The following season, Randall uncorked a 91-yard, into-the-wind punt to clinch a key game against the G-men. It was the greatest display of punting by a quarterback since Sammy Baugh led the league from 1940 to 43.

While individual plays don't make a career, part of being a Hall of Famer is leaving an indelible impression. Cunningham was the most electrifying player not named B. Sanders to take the field since Gale Sayers was knocked from the game. And unlike Terrell Davis, Randall made it back from crippling injuries to return to the pinnacle of the sport. These attributes, plus his pioneer status, far outweigh his lack of a Super Bowl ring and are why Cunningham should be voted into Canton on the first ballot five years hence.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It was an absolute travesty that Thurman Thomas didn't get in last year. In principle, he should walk in this year, but who knows.

 

[Bri]

TD = the most famous and storied RB in the transition of the NFL from Plan B free agency to unlimited free agency.

I have no idea what this means. Davis is less worthy than many RBs whose careers overlapped his own. What makes him more famous and "storied" than Emmitt, Sanders, Faulk, Bettis, Martin? Especially to the HOF voters... who are presumably much more knowledgeable about NFL football and its players than the general public.

yeah I don't get that either. Odd statement considerring he was always a Bronco. Martin+Faulk were traded, so was Bettis right? I guess I'd say Priest here....really not "getting" the FA angle

 

[Bri]

South Jersey,

loved watching Randall. He was the best running style quarterback IMO and later on was a very good pocket QB with the Vikes. IMO Vick right now, isn't anywhere near as good as Randall "back in the day" nor was Kordell.

I know this will get some reaction but I even think Randall was a better runner than Vick.

 

[Bri]

As for Davis, he basically had 3 excellent seasons to hang his hat on in the 96-98 window. Here are all the players tha have had 5000 rushing yards in a 3-year stretch.Terrell Davis 96-98 5296 Eric Dickerson 84-86 5160Eric Dickerson 83-85 5147Barry Sanders 95-97 5106Barry Sanders 96-98 5097 Earl Campbell 78-80 5081Shaun Alexander 03-05 5011Earl Campbell 79-81 5007If we open it up to 6,000 yards from scrimmage, that gives us a few more names . . .Marshall Faulk 98-00 6845Marshall Faulk 99-01 6765Priest Holmes 01-03 6566LaDainian Tomlinson 02-04 6318Tiki Barber 03-05 6163LaDainian Tomlinson 01-03 6145Marshall Faulk 97-99 6171Walter Payton 83-85 6114Terrell Davis 96-98 6110This is the ore interesting list, IMO, because it almost looks like Barber and Holmes had stretches as good as Davis', so it almost seems like those two need to get in if Davis does.

interesting postMost guys on that list were TD machines. In your opinion, does that matter to HOF voters? Will it be held against the ones that didn't have as many?BTW Still surprised Emmitt isn't on there. I guess in my head I remember him doing better than he did...oh well, thanks for the post

 

[Marc Levin]

As for Davis, he basically had 3 excellent seasons to hang his hat on in the 96-98 window. Here are all the players tha have had 5000 rushing yards in a 3-year stretch.

Terrell Davis 96-98 5296

Eric Dickerson 84-86 5160

Eric Dickerson 83-85 5147

Barry Sanders 95-97 5106

Barry Sanders 96-98 5097

Earl Campbell 78-80 5081

Shaun Alexander 03-05 5011

Earl Campbell 79-81 5007

If we open it up to 6,000 yards from scrimmage, that gives us a few more names . . .

Marshall Faulk 98-00 6845

Marshall Faulk 99-01 6765

Priest Holmes 01-03 6566

LaDainian Tomlinson 02-04 6318

Tiki Barber 03-05 6163

LaDainian Tomlinson 01-03 6145

Marshall Faulk 97-99 6171

Walter Payton 83-85 6114

Terrell Davis 96-98 6110

This is the ore interesting list, IMO, because it almost looks like Barber and Holmes had stretches as good as Davis', so it almost seems like those two need to get in if Davis does.

Non-sensical - if it was all regular season, Terrel Davis does not deserve to be in. In that, I think I and JWB/IIWIS are in agreement.Post-season plus the laurels he had (including the two rings and SB MVP one year) in those three years are what'll get him in.

As for the carries, you misunderstood my point - where did I say anything about more or less carries? Or the meaning of such carries?

In fact, the MORE CARRIES the stronger my argument - RBs are worked to death in shorter periods of time.

Average lifespan of NFL RBs has gone DOWN not UP since unlimited (not plan B) FA. That was my point - it is more likely for RBs to do more in less time now and for them NOT to have the decade+ long careers of guys like Payton, Bettis, and Emmitt. Teams can't stay together - OLinemen leave more frequently, supporting cast changes teams more often, etc., etc.

 

[David Yudkin]

As for Davis, he basically had 3 excellent seasons to hang his hat on in the 96-98 window. Here are all the players tha have had 5000 rushing yards in a 3-year stretch.Terrell Davis 96-98 5296 Eric Dickerson 84-86 5160Eric Dickerson 83-85 5147Barry Sanders 95-97 5106Barry Sanders 96-98 5097 Earl Campbell 78-80 5081Shaun Alexander 03-05 5011Earl Campbell 79-81 5007If we open it up to 6,000 yards from scrimmage, that gives us a few more names . . .Marshall Faulk 98-00 6845Marshall Faulk 99-01 6765Priest Holmes 01-03 6566LaDainian Tomlinson 02-04 6318Tiki Barber 03-05 6163LaDainian Tomlinson 01-03 6145Marshall Faulk 97-99 6171Walter Payton 83-85 6114Terrell Davis 96-98 6110This is the ore interesting list, IMO, because it almost looks like Barber and Holmes had stretches as good as Davis', so it almost seems like those two need to get in if Davis does.

interesting postMost guys on that list were TD machines. In your opinion, does that matter to HOF voters? Will it be held against the ones that didn't have as many?BTW Still surprised Emmitt isn't on there. I guess in my head I remember him doing better than he did...oh well, thanks for the post

Emmitt's best three year stretch was 5873 total yards and 4782 rushing yards, although he was consistently close to that and had a lot of TD. He never had a ton of receiving yards (but did catch a lot of balls).

 

[Marc Levin]

BTW Still surprised Emmitt isn't on there. I guess in my head I remember him doing better than he did...oh well, thanks for the post

Emmitt was a TD machine, but not as much a yardage machine. His strength - and the way he ultimately got to the yardage mark - was through longevity, not by amassing huge rushing years in a given year.Emmitt first appears on the single seaosn rushing list for his 1995 season:

E Dickerson 1984 2105

J Lewis 2003 2066

B Sanders 1997 2053

T Davis 1998 2008

O Simpson 1973 2003

E Campbell 1980 1934

B Sanders 1994 1883

A Green 2003 1883

S Alexander 2005 1880

J Brown 1963 1863

T Barber 2005 1860

R Williams 2002 1853

W Payton 1977 1852

J Anderson 1998 1846

E Dickerson 1986 1821

O Simpson 1975 1817

E Dickerson 1983 1808

E Smith 1995 1773

M Allen 1985 1759

T Davis 1997 1750

L Johnson 2005 1750

G Riggs 1985 1719

E Smith 1992 1713

E James 2000 1709

C Martin 2004 1697

E Campbell 1979 1697

S Alexander 2004 1696

B Foster 1992 1690

W Payton 1984 1684

L Tomlinson 2002 1683

G Rogers 1981 1674

J Bettis 1997 1665

E Dickerson 1988 1659

T Dorsett 1981 1646

L Tomlinson 2003 1645

D McAllister 2003 1641

C Dillon 2004 1635

P Holmes 2002 1615

W Payton 1979 1610

O Anderson 1979 1605

C Portis 2003 1591

F Taylor 2003 1572

G Hearst 1998 1570

W Andrews 1983 1567

E Smith 1991 1563

P Holmes 2001 1555

E James 1999 1553

B Sanders 1996 1553

W Payton 1985 1551

For a guy to have the yardage mark and appear on the above list only three times says som,ething about his longevity and ability to play through injury - Emmitt was awesome.

 

[David Yudkin]

As for Davis, he basically had 3 excellent seasons to hang his hat on in the 96-98 window. Here are all the players tha have had 5000 rushing yards in a 3-year stretch.

Terrell Davis 96-98 5296

Eric Dickerson 84-86 5160

Eric Dickerson 83-85 5147

Barry Sanders 95-97 5106

Barry Sanders 96-98 5097

Earl Campbell 78-80 5081

Shaun Alexander 03-05 5011

Earl Campbell 79-81 5007

If we open it up to 6,000 yards from scrimmage, that gives us a few more names . . .

Marshall Faulk 98-00 6845

Marshall Faulk 99-01 6765

Priest Holmes 01-03 6566

LaDainian Tomlinson 02-04 6318

Tiki Barber 03-05 6163

LaDainian Tomlinson 01-03 6145

Marshall Faulk 97-99 6171

Walter Payton 83-85 6114

Terrell Davis 96-98 6110

This is the ore interesting list, IMO, because it almost looks like Barber and Holmes had stretches as good as Davis', so it almost seems like those two need to get in if Davis does.

Non-sensical - if it was all regular season, Terrel Davis does not deserve to be in. In that, I think I and JWB/IIWIS are in agreement.Post-season plus the laurels he had (including the two rings and SB MVP one year) in those three years are what'll get him in.

As for the carries, you misunderstood my point - where did I say anything about more or less carries? Or the meaning of such carries?

In fact, the MORE CARRIES the stronger my argument - RBs are worked to death in shorter periods of time.

Average lifespan of NFL RBs has gone DOWN not UP since unlimited (not plan B) FA. That was my point - it is more likely for RBs to do more in less time now and for them NOT to have the decade+ long careers of guys like Payton, Bettis, and Emmitt. Teams can't stay together - OLinemen leave more frequently, supporting cast changes teams more often, etc., etc.

What evidence do you have to support RB lifespans being shorter than in the past? Back in the day the lifespan for a RB was 5 years. IMO, there are plenty of RB that last longer than that (see Faulk, Martin, Dillon, Bettis, Smith, James, Dunn, etc.).Davis had three phenomenal seasons and one more very good rookie campaign. But that's about it. Whether that and his stellar post-season numbers gets him in is up for the voters to decide, but there several players with exemplary 3 year numbers that are in the same boat (Warner, Sharpe, HMoore, Holmes, Sims, Riggs, etc.).

Personally, I do think Davis was a HOF talent, but up HOF numbers when healthy, had probably the best post-season numbers of any RB, but his career totals are on the light side. I would rather see someone like Davis make it over other RBs that will get in (and over some guys that are already in). His total rushing yardage is not even in the Top 40 all time and Jamal Lewis could pass him soon.

I don't know if Davis will get in, but he is far from a lock and may struggle to get votes from voters looking for big career numbers.

 

[Marc Levin]

What evidence do you have to support RB lifespans being shorter than in the past? Back in the day the lifespan for a RB was 5 years. IMO, there are plenty of RB that last longer than that (see Faulk, Martin, Dillon, Bettis, Smith, James, Dunn, etc.).

Wish I could be more specific than "I read it somewhere."I think there may be a Drinen article somewhere that cites the current RB lifespan (all RBs who came in the league since 1980 was, I believe, the cut off point) to be 3.5 years, down from your cited average of 5.

 

[SSOG]

SSOG re 3 year stretch+TD. Emmitt won 3 Supes right? His accomplishments (in those 3)weren't comparable in your opinion?

Terrell Davis, from 1996 to 1998, went for 6110 yards and 53 scores. Statistically, Emmitt Smith's best 3-year stretch was from 1993 to 1995, where he went for 5873 yards and 58 scores. Davis had better statistics, a higher ypc, and more awards- and remember, Emmitt had 11 3-year groupings in his prime, and this was his very best one.

Why do people continue to cite draft position when discussing HOF credentials? It doesn't matter.

People use it with Tom Brady, too. I think it's a nice little niche arguement for the voters who like players who overcame long odds.

I think it's the awards that set Sayers apart. 5 All Pro selections to 3 for Davis. And All Time NFL Halfback is greater than any award ever given to Davis.

Davis has never had a shot at any all-time awards- the only time-lapse award he's ever been eligible for was the All-90's team, and he won that award. That means we have Sayers and his 5 All-Pros against Davis and his 3 all-pros, MVP, Offensive PoY, and Superbowl MVP- all won in a larger league featuring greater competition.

Whether or not he "could have kept it up" is irrelevant. There was no reason at all to think Sterling Sharpe couldn't have kept it up, but we aren't putting him in the HOF. There was no reason at all to think Priest Holmes couldn't have kept it up, either. No idea why you cited him the way you did.

I cited Holmes the way I did because he had plenty of opportunities and only really cashed in on one of them. As for Sterling Sharpe... I happen to be of the opinion that he has a pretty darn good HoF arguement, too. I'd rather have him in than Art Monk.In my opinion, HoFers were dominant players. If a guy hangs around for 5 years too long and averages 600 yards over those 5 seasons, that shouldn't enhance his HoF profile one iota- he basically performed at a below average level in compiling 3000 extra yards. If Terrell Davis played for 30 more years and gained 200 yards each year, would you elect him into the HoF because he held the NFL career rushing record? HoF credentials should be determined by how brightly a star shone at his peak, not how long he managed to keep a moderately dim career alive.Also worth noting- Terrell Davis accomplished more in his 4 years than most HoFers did in their entire careers. If you shortened Emmitt Smith's career by 6 years, but made each of his remaining years commensurately greater, wouldn't he still be just as deserving of the HoF? Name me a non-HoF RB with two Offensive PoY awards, an NFL MVP, a Superbowl MVP, three seasons in the top 3 in TDs, three seasons in the top 3 in yards from scrimmage, three seasons in the top 3 in rushing yards, and a dozen or so postseason records. Would it have mattered if Davis had accomplished all of those feats over an 8 year span instead of a 4 year span?

No, I think you know plenty about football. But I also think you lose objectivity when you post about Denver and its players. I think your opinions would be different if Davis had played for another team and had the same accomplishments.

I don't think so. As I said, I think Sterling Sharpe is a more deserving HoF WR than Art Monk. I also would rather enshrine him than Tim Brown or even Michael Irving. When last I checked, Sterling Sharpe never played for the Denver Broncos.If Steve Smith finishes out this season and plays two more years at the level he's currently at, I'll call him a HoFer, too. Once again, Smith has never played a down for the Denver Broncos.As for Priest Holmes... I don't think he's a HoFer, but I think he's close, and I'd put him in before I put Jerome Bettis in- Jerome Bettis is a classic compiler. I'd also put Kurt Warner into the HoF before Drew Bledsoe.

This is the ore interesting list, IMO, because it almost looks like Barber and Holmes had stretches as good as Davis', so it almost seems like those two need to get in if Davis does.

Really? I must have missed the 3-year span where Tiki Barber won the league MVP and was twice the NFL Offensive PoY. Terrell Davis has 1 more MVP than either player, and one more Offensive PoY than Priest, two more than Tiki. That alone clearly demonstrates that Davis had the better stretch.People keep looking up these awards. Terrell Davis wasn't the best RB in the entire NFL during that three year stretch because his numbers were absurd. He was the best RB in the entire NFL during that three year stretch because all of the NFL observers got together and declared that there wasn't a single player in the entire league at any position at all better than Terrell Davis.

 

[SSOG]

Also, I want to go over a point that I made before.

I said that Terrell Davis accomplished more in 4 years than most RBs accomplish in their entire careers. Let's compare Terrell Davis to Curtis Martin, who I think is (deservedly) a HoF RB.

Curtis Martin had a much longer career than Terrell Davis. In that much longer career, he won 1 fewer MVP, 2 fewer Offensive PoY awards, and 1 fewer SB MVP (in his one SB, Martin rushed for 42 yards). Martin appeared in 2 more playoff games, and in those games rushed for 347 FEWER yards. Martin had one more top-10% finish in rushing yards, one FEWER top-10% finish in rushing TDs, and two FEWER top-10% finishes in yards from scrimmage and total TDs. It's a fair statement to say that Terrell Davis accomplished more in his first 4 years in the league than Curtis Martin accomplished in his 11 years in the league.

Question to everyone who thinks TD doesn't deserve induction: Are you trying to say that if Terrell Davis had had 4 more seasons where he went for 250/1000/6 (BELOW-AVERAGE seasons by today's RBs' standards- see Droughns last year), that suddenly he would merit HoF consideration? Are you saying that a few extra years of below-average production are all Davis needed to be hall-worthy?

 

[Tau837]

Also, I want to go over a point that I made before.I said that Terrell Davis accomplished more in 4 years than most RBs accomplish in their entire careers. Let's compare Terrell Davis to Curtis Martin, who I think is (deservedly) a HoF RB.Curtis Martin had a much longer career than Terrell Davis. In that much longer career, he won 1 fewer MVP, 2 fewer Offensive PoY awards, and 1 fewer SB MVP (in his one SB, Martin rushed for 42 yards). Martin appeared in 2 more playoff games, and in those games rushed for 347 FEWER yards. Martin had one more top-10% finish in rushing yards, one FEWER top-10% finish in rushing TDs, and two FEWER top-10% finishes in yards from scrimmage and total TDs. It's a fair statement to say that Terrell Davis accomplished more in his first 4 years in the league than Curtis Martin accomplished in his 11 years in the league.Question to everyone who thinks TD doesn't deserve induction: Are you trying to say that if Terrell Davis had had 4 more seasons where he went for 250/1000/6 (BELOW-AVERAGE seasons by today's RBs' standards- see Droughns last year), that suddenly he would merit HoF consideration? Are you saying that a few extra years of below-average production are all Davis needed to be hall-worthy?

IMO Martin is worthy and Davis isn't, so to me Martin had a better career. Clearly, we have a different view of what merits HOF consideration. SSOG, do you think Brady would be a HOFer if his career ended after 2004? Do you think Warner would be if his career ended after 2001?Also, given that Davis's argument boils down to four seasons, and really three (1996-1998), what is the threshold? I mean, if he is worthy, then what about someone who had an elite two year stretch and got hurt? Is that enough? Heck, why not someone who has an elite single year?

 

[Ghost Rider]

SSOG has made such a good argument on this page, that I have nothing else to add, except to say that he has nailed it.

 

[Kleck]

Largest snub I've ever encountered....

They left DT Cortez Kennedy off the list this year. Dude was the NFL Defensive MVP. How does this happen?

 

[BigRed]

OK, let's hear your thoughts.

lol @ the joke the HoF is becoming and LMAO @ Davis getting in for a whopping 3 good years. Which he will, if not this year than another. I can't wait for Vinny T to get in (more passing yds than Unitas) and Dilfer (he has a ring after all!) and Bert Jones (NFL MVP award!!).

 

[Kleck]

Ricky Watters = IN

Not 1st ballot Shawn, sorry. TD has to go first...Thurman needs to go in at some point...Emmitt will be on the ballot in a couple seasons...where does Watter fit in? He got a ring early on in his career and was then left behind by the Niners...he was always thought to have a bad atitude and that is going to keep him out for the time being.

I've never understood the bad attitude perception. He made one stupid comment after he short armed a pass in Philly. "For who? For what?" Other than that what terrible thing did he do? I been going to Seahawks training camp for years. No one has ever come close to being such an intense practice player as Watters. Not even close. And it wasn't a one time thing. Watters always went 100% in practice. I remember thinking that this was the sort of thing that all high school athletes need to see. Practice hard and play hard.All this said, I can't imagine Watters is a first timer. Perhaps eventually, but it should take him a few years.Still can't get over the snub of DT Cortez Kennedy. He was the premier DT in the league for a lot of years, and it wasn't close.

 

[Tau837]

Ricky Watters = IN

Not 1st ballot Shawn, sorry. TD has to go first...Thurman needs to go in at some point...Emmitt will be on the ballot in a couple seasons...where does Watter fit in? He got a ring early on in his career and was then left behind by the Niners...he was always thought to have a bad atitude and that is going to keep him out for the time being.

I've never understood the bad attitude perception. He made one stupid comment after he short armed a pass in Philly. "For who? For what?" Other than that what terrible thing did he do? I been going to Seahawks training camp for years. No one has ever come close to being such an intense practice player as Watters. Not even close. And it wasn't a one time thing. Watters always went 100% in practice. I remember thinking that this was the sort of thing that all high school athletes need to see. Practice hard and play hard.

All this said, I can't imagine Watters is a first timer. Perhaps eventually, but it should take him a few years.

Still can't get over the snub of DT Cortez Kennedy. He was the premier DT in the league for a lot of years, and it wasn't close.

Problem with this is that in a few years, Emmitt, Faulk, Bettis, and Martin will be coming eligible... and after that wave will be the start of the next one. Watters and Davis both need to get in within the next 3 years IMO, if they're going to avoid the senior committee route.

 

[Tau837]

Largest snub I've ever encountered....They left DT Cortez Kennedy off the list this year. Dude was the NFL Defensive MVP. How does this happen?

I believe there is a nomination process... so he must not have been nominated. You don't expect him to make it, do you?Here are a number of one time winners of the Defensive MVP award that are not in the HOF:1973 - **** Anderson, S Miami1977 - Harvey Martin, DE Dallas1978 - Randy Gradishar, LB Denver1980 - Lester Hayes, CB Oakland1983 - Doug Betters, DE Miami1984 - Kenny Easley, S Seattle1989 - Keith Millard, DT Minnesota1991 - Pat Swilling, LB New Orleans1992 - Cortez Kennedy, DT Seattle1995 - Bryce Paup, LB Buffalo1997 - Dana Stubblefield, DT San Francisco1999 - Warren Sapp, DT Tampa Bay2001 - Michael Strahan, DE NY Giants2002 - Derrick Brooks, LB Tampa Bay2004 - Ed Reed, S Baltimore2005 - Brian Urlacher, LB ChicagoI'd say Sapp, Strahan, and Brooks have a good chance of making it. Too soon to say for Reed and/or Urlacher IMO. I don't see the rest making it.

 

[SSOG]

IMO Martin is worthy and Davis isn't, so to me Martin had a better career. Clearly, we have a different view of what merits HOF consideration. SSOG, do you think Brady would be a HOFer if his career ended after 2004? Do you think Warner would be if his career ended after 2001?

Brady, not a chance in hell. First off, he was always just an "above-average" regular season QB through 2004 (2005 was his first season where he was actually an "elite" QB). Second off, his postseason numbers were a joke. He was a two-time SB MVP, but in one of those "MVP performances", he tossed for 145 yards. ONE HUNDRED FORTY-FIVE YARDS! Terrell Davis *RUSHED* for more than that in THREE QUARTERS. Brady winning that first MVP was a farce, and just reeked of "well, we can't give it to a defensive player, obviously, because defensive players don't count... and we can't give it to someone on the losing team, because they don't count either... and nobody on the winning team had decent numbers... so let's give it to the QB by default".Brady averaged 217 yards and 1.22 TDs per game in the playoffs after 2004. He had two MVPs, one of which was clearly a joke. You can't even make the arguement that he was a "great" playoff QB, and combine that with his decidedly average performance in the regular season and you're left with Trent Dilfer 2.0. No way he deserves it if his career ends after 2004.Warner's a different matter. If Warner got hurt on the first play of 2002 and never returned, I think he'd be as deserving as TD for the HoF.

Also, given that Davis's argument boils down to four seasons, and really three (1996-1998), what is the threshold? I mean, if he is worthy, then what about someone who had an elite two year stretch and got hurt? Is that enough? Heck, why not someone who has an elite single year?

One year is obviously not enough, because history is littered with people who performed 1 year but were absolute flukes. Two years probably isn't long enough, although I suppose it depends- the bar would have to be much, much higher. If someone rushes for the most yards in any 2-year span ever and is a 2-time league MVP and wins a SB and a SB MVP in a 2-year window, and they have a third good-but-not-great season either before or after, then I'd think they'd be Hall worthy. I mean, my arguement was that if Davis accomplishes as much in 4 years as Martin did in 11, Davis should be just as qualified for the Hall. Obviously, if someone accomplishes as much in 3 years as Davis did in 4, they'd be just as qualified. Of course, the fewer years, the harder it is to amass all of those accomplishments.Still, let's say that Laurence Maroney goes for 1200 yards this year while splitting time, and then next year gets the start and goes off for 2000 yards, and then the year after he goes for 2000 again. Let's say that New England wins a superbowl during those two seasons, that Maroney averages 150 yards per game in the postseason, and wins a SB MVP. If he gets injured immediately afterwards, I'd say he's hall qualified. I don't see any problem with that at all.

I have been pretty clear in my reasons. Other RB's (Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis) in the same Denver system working with lesser players (No Elway, Sharpe etc) have produced better numbers than Davis did in every year, except for Davis 2,000 yard season.

I always hate this arguement, because it's outright untrue.Terrell Davis deserves to get into the HoF because he was dominant. He wasn't dominant because his numbers said he was (although they clearly demonstrate how dominant he was), he was dominant because he dominated his competition. His dominance wasn't just shown in the numbers, it was shown in the 3 Pro Bowls, 3 All-Pro Awards, 2 Offensive Player of the Years, and 1 MVP, as well as the postseason numbers.All Denver RBs COMBINED since Terrell Davis got injured account for 1 pro bowl, 0 all pros, 0 offensive PoYs, and 0 MVPs. That's in 7 seasons. Saying that the Denver rushers since Terrell Davis even APPROACH the level of Terrell Davis is patently absurd. In fact, only one Denver RB has even come CLOSE (Clinton Portis, who accounts for the lone pro bowl), and he's busy demonstrating that he's no fluke, either. In 5 years, I think Portis enters the HoF discussion to, and he was very clearly nowhere NEAR the level of Terrell Davis.Edit: In case you complain that you were just looking at the numbers and not the awards, I can refute this using nothing but numbers, too. We'll label 1995-1998 as "TD" and 1999-2005 as "PTD" (i.e. Post TD)# of times a Denver RB finished in the top 10% in rushing yards:TD- 3 (best finish- 1st)PTD- 0 (best finish- 4th)# of times a Denver RB finished in the top 10% in rushing TDs:TD- 3 (best finish- 1st, twice)PTD- 2 (best finish- 2nd)# of times a Denver RB finished in the top 10% in yards from scrimmage:TD- 3 (best finish- 2nd, three times)PTD- 0 (best finish- 6th)# of times a Denver RB finished in the top 10% in combined TDs:TD- 3 (best finish- 1st)PTD- 1 (best finish- 3rd)If you want to expand from the top-3 to the top-10, that doesn't hurt the arguement. TD finished in the top 10 in rushing yards 4 times in 4 years, while everyone else managed it 4 times in 7 years. TD finished in the top 10 in TDs 3 times in 4 years, and everyone else did it 4 times in 7 years. Terrell Davis finished in the top 10 in yards from scrimmage 3 times in 4 years, and everyone else did it 3 times in 7 years. Even going strictly by the numbers, nobody who has replaced TD has EVER had a better season than TD's third-best season (1996), where he finished 2nd in yards from scrimmage, 2nd in rushing yards, 3rd in rushing TDs, and 3rd in total TDs. Heck, even if you take the best post-Terrell single-season finishes in each statistical category and combine them into one superseason, Terrell Davis's THIRD BEST SEASON will still beat it.Terrell Davis 1996- 2nd in rushing yardsMike Anderson 2000- 4th in rushing yardsTerrell Davis 1996- 3rd in rushing TDsMike Anderson 2000- 2nd in rushing TDsTerrell Davis 1996- 2nd in yards from scrimmageClinton Portis 2002- 6th in yards from scrimmageTerrell Davis 1996- 3rd in total TDsClinton Portis 2002- 3rd in total TDsHopefully that puts an end to this silly "Terrell Davis's replacements have all done just as well as he has" nonsense.

OK, let's hear your thoughts.

lol @ the joke the HoF is becoming and LMAO @ Davis getting in for a whopping 3 good years. Which he will, if not this year than another. I can't wait for Vinny T to get in (more passing yds than Unitas) and Dilfer (he has a ring after all!) and Bert Jones (NFL MVP award!!).

Combine them all into a single player (the yards, the ring, and the MVP), and you've got yourself a HoFer. If Testeverde won an MVP and a Superbowl, he would absolutely be a HoFer.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

We lost cabin pressure in this thread awhile back.

People are trying to convinve others of why this guy or that guy will get voted in. I will repeat this question again.

Does anyone really think that with Terrell Davis being the 1st name mentioned out of this class that he will not get voted into the Hall of Fame?

I didn't particularly think Aikman was the best QB to come down the pike but I accepted that he would get in and that the stats were somewhat a non issue. So why is everyone trying to disprove TD? I don't get it. I am not a Denver fan...never had TD on my FF team unfortunately...what is the reason people are so bent on him? Accept that he will be voted in...now who else is going to go in with him? I think Mathews and McDaniel for sure, then it gets a little muddy for me.

 

[moleculo]

We lost cabin pressure in this thread awhile back.People are trying to convinve others of why this guy or that guy will get voted in. I will repeat this question again.Does anyone really think that with Terrell Davis being the 1st name mentioned out of this class that he will not get voted into the Hall of Fame?I didn't particularly think Aikman was the best QB to come down the pike but I accepted that he would get in and that the stats were somewhat a non issue. So why is everyone trying to disprove TD? I don't get it. I am not a Denver fan...never had TD on my FF team unfortunately...what is the reason people are so bent on him? Accept that he will be voted in...now who else is going to go in with him? I think Mathews and McDaniel for sure, then it gets a little muddy for me.

MoP makes a good point. We can argue deservedness until we are blue in the face. Fact of the matter is that no one on thi sboard (AFAIK) is a HOF voter. What we say and think means squat. The voters are sports writers - they will vote who they think was the most deserving. Anything posted above may or may not have any correlation to what the sports writers say. Certainly, Davis might be one of the more controversial figures - we have hundreds of posts discussing this already. I think that this discussion alone merits "Fame", and that in itself might be enough to put him over the hump.

 

[Tau837]

We lost cabin pressure in this thread awhile back.

People are trying to convinve others of why this guy or that guy will get voted in. I will repeat this question again.

Does anyone really think that with Terrell Davis being the 1st name mentioned out of this class that he will not get voted into the Hall of Fame?

I didn't particularly think Aikman was the best QB to come down the pike but I accepted that he would get in and that the stats were somewhat a non issue. So why is everyone trying to disprove TD? I don't get it. I am not a Denver fan...never had TD on my FF team unfortunately...what is the reason people are so bent on him? Accept that he will be voted in...now who else is going to go in with him? I think Mathews and McDaniel for sure, then it gets a little muddy for me.

Yes. That's what I think. I already offered you and Levin a sig bet on first year induction, but I don't think he'll ever be inducted.

 

[SSOG]

I prefer to avoid the smoke and mirror approach you are using here and go straight to the stats, as they tell the true story here.

Okay, well then, let's avoid the "smoke and mirrors" of adjusting numbers for the offensive climate in which they were put up. Terrell Davis rushed for more yards in 3 years than Gale Sayers did in his entire career! Terrell Davis is clearly a HoFer!Also, everyone thinks that Jim Brown is the best RB ever, but Terrell Davis rushed for 2000 yards, and Jim Brown never did. Jim Brown was a scrub.

The stats support what I stated, both Portis and Anderson outperform Davis in the same exact system, only with lesser players (No Elway).

Great then. Since Portis and Anderson obviously played better than Terrell Davis, can you tell me how they managed to find room on their mantles for all of those MVPs, Offensive PoYs, All-Pro, and Pro Bowl awards they won?What's that? They didn't win any MVPs, Offensive PoYs, or All-Pros, and only went to one Pro Bowl? How can this be?! They clearly performed so much better than league MVP, two-time OPoY, 3-time All-Pro Terrell Davis! I mean, you've totally convinced me! The offensive climate of the day is completely irrelevant when comparing players, only true statistics matter!Seriously, we should head up a committee designed to look into the league's discrimination against Clinton Portis and Mike Anderson, who should have had three league MVPs between them, at least.

 

[Hunterbeer]

You will never see three guards in at the same time when a high profile running back who had 2G rushing in one season and owns 2 SB rings is standing right there.

So you believe Jamal Lewis (2 G + 1 SB) is a lock also?

Terrell Davis:1995- Lowest drafted player to ever rush for 1,000 as a rookie.

1996- NFL Offensive Player of the Year. AFC Offensive Player of the Year.

1997- AFC Offensive Player of the Year. Superbowl MVP.

1998- NFL MVP. NFL Offensive Player of the Year.

Postseason records- 158.9 yards per game (NFL record). 1.5 rushing TDs per game (NFL record). 7 straight 100-yard games (NFL record). 7 straight games with 1+ TD (NFL record).

Jamal Lewis:

2003- NFL Offensive Player of the Year.

2004- charged with attempting to distribute cocain, spent time in jail.

Really, it's the awards and the postseason accomplishments that set Davis apart. The only RBs who have been as decorated in their entire CAREERS as Davis was in his 4 years were Jim Brown, Walter Peyton, and Barry Sanders. If Davis's postseason numbers were projected out to a 16-game season, they'd be 2542 yards (2280 rushing) and 24 TDs. The rushing numbers and yards-from-scrimmage numbers would both be NFL records, and the TD numbers would be the 4th best mark of all time, iirc. The most remarkable thing about this was that this came against PLAYOFF-CALIBER DEFENSES (unlike Jamal Lewis's 2000 yard season, 500 yards of which came against the Cleveland Browns). In 1998, Davis faced perhaps the three best defenses in the entire NFL (Miami Dolphins, New York Jets, Atlanta Falcons) and carried 78 times for 468 yards (6 yards per carry exactly). SIX FREAKING YARDS PER CARRY!

People say that Terrell Davis had a great stretch, but didn't last long enough, but that trivializes what he did during that stretch. Terrell Davis didn't have a "great stretch", he had the BEST THREE-YEAR STRETCH ANY RB HAS EVER POSTED IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. Gale Sayers, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton, Emmitt Smith... none of them could match the numbers Davis produced or the awards he won from 1996-1998. And there was no reason at all to think that he couldn't have kept it up. That's really what sets Davis apart from all the other "great stretch" RBs such as Priest Holmes or Jamal Lewis. If Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell belong in the HoF, so does Terrell Davis.

One last arguement before I go.

Terrell Davis's average season in his first 4 years:

1898 yards, 15.25 TDs

Terrell Davis's average season after 5+ years:

431 yards, 1.33 TDs

Earl Campbell's average season in his first 4 years:

1701 yards, 13.75 TDs

Earl Campbell's average season after 5+ years:

682 yards, 3.8 TDs

So if Campbell deserves a spot but Davis doesn't, what you're really saying was that if he managed to average maybe 200 more yards in his brutally ineffective post-injury tour, with another couple of scores per year, that he'd be a HoFer? Averaging 682 yards instead of 431 yards in the twilight of his career shouldn't be what makes a player a HoFer.

Haven't you been around long enough to know that comparing a current/recent player with players from the 1950s and 1960s is comparing apples and oranges?

The Sayers-Davis comparison in particular has been made many times on these boards, and if you think Davis is close to Sayers, you know less about football than I thought you did.

Alright, let's make a more fair comparison. We'll compare how Gale Sayers dominated the 22 team league with how Davis dominated the 30 team league.Sayers / Terrell Davis-

4 pro bowls / 3 pro bowls

0 MVPs / 1 MVP

0 offensive PoY awards / 2 Offensive PoY awards

Seems like Terrell Davis was more dominant than Gale Sayers was during his short span at the top.

Let's take this comparison further.

Seasons among the top 10% in the NFL in rushing yards

Sayers- 3

Davis- 3

Seasons among the top 10% in the NFL in rushing TDs

Sayers- 2

Davis- 3

Seasons among the top 10% in the NFL in yards from scrimmage

Sayers- 1

Davis- 3

Seasons among the top 10% in the NFL in total TDs

Sayers- 1

Davis- 3

Personally, I see that as pretty darn close (with Davis getting the decided edge), but apparently I don't know that much about football.

Sure, Gale Sayers had that punt returner thing going for him, but Davis has that whole "best postseason rusher in NFL history, averaged 160 yards per game in the postseason" thing going for him, too. Again, I'd call the two pretty comparable, with Davis actually getting the edge in terms of dominance.

Edit: Just so nobody can accuse me of "massaging the numbers", here are their end-of-season ranks. Keep in mind that both players essentially had 4 fully healthy seasons, and these are ranks vs. the rest of the league at the time, so we're comparing apples to apples here. The statistical categories we're considering are Rushing Yards, Rushing TDs, Yards from Scrimmage, and total TDs.

# of times each player has finished first in any of the above categories-

Sayers- 3

Davis- 4

# of times each player has finished 2nd or better in any of the above categories-

Sayers- 7

Davis- 10

# of times each player has finished 3rd or better in any of the above categories-

Sayers- 10

Davis- 12

And once again, bear in mind that there were only 22-26 teams in the league when Sayers played and was healthy, while there were 30 teams in the league while Davis played and was healthy, so there was more competition.

Adjust the numbers for era, adjust the numbers for shortened seasons, adjust the numbers for inflation or the rising cost of the Japanese yen compared to the U.S. Dollar, adjust the numbers any which way you please... none of that changes the fact that Terrell Davis was more dominant than Gale Sayers.

Wow, nice cherry picking of stats there. I am sure that TD does have more Offensive Player of the year awards than does Sayers -- since the award wasn't even started until 1972 -- AFTER SAYERS WAS RETIRED!!!! Sayers was so much better than TD that it hurts to type them in the same sentence.As for the Earl Campbell comparison, that is closer, but still wrong. Let's use your nice stats/awards decree --

PRO Bowls

Campbell -- 5

Davis -- 3

Led the NFL in Rushing

Campbell -- 3

Davis -- 1

Led the NFL in Rushing TDs

Campbell -- 2

Davis -- 2

Top 10s in Yards From Scrimmage

Campbell -- 4

Davis -- 3

NFL MVP (A very telling stat)

Campbell -- 3

Davis 1

Offensive Player of the Year

Campbell -- 3

Davis -- 2

Both won Rookie of the Year honors.

So Campbell has won more awards, gained more yards, finished in the top-10 more often in rushing and yards from scrimmage, and did all of this without a Hall of Fame QB, a Hall of Fame TE, a borderline Hall of Fame WR, and one of the great offensive lines to play the game. So other than that, they were the same.

(Yes, TD did Fantastic in the postseason, but I do not think any team Denver ever played would be compared to the Steel Curtain teams that thwarted Campbell's Super Bowl quest.)

 

[Bri]

We lost cabin pressure in this thread awhile back.**snip** I will repeat this question again.Does anyone really think that with Terrell Davis being the 1st name mentioned out of this class that he will not get voted into the Hall of Fame?

It's very possible. HOF voters are members of PFWA right? Or is that the pro bowl and heisman? You just have no idea what their opinion is of the shortness of his career. I doubt any would say he wasn't a great player or any of that, that doesn't seem like a stretch of a prediction.There could be a guy like Monk that they feel inclined to put in. He was the then record holding WR.If TD played 10 years, no question IMO. Now, there's an excuse to push it off another year. Someone said "I don't care who you are, if you saw a Giant game from (dates he played) you thought Harry Carson was great." I don't disagree but he didn't get in first try.They're are only so many votes and it's not like TD is going up against Rashan Salaam and Karim Abdul Jabbar he's up against other great players. There's only so many votes....

 

[Bri]

SSOG re 3 year stretch+TD. Emmitt won 3 Supes right? His accomplishments (in those 3)weren't comparable in your opinion?

Terrell Davis, from 1996 to 1998, went for 6110 yards and 53 scores. Statistically, Emmitt Smith's best 3-year stretch was from 1993 to 1995, where he went for 5873 yards and 58 scores. Davis had better statistics, a higher ypc, and more awards- and remember, Emmitt had 11 3-year groupings in his prime, and this was his very best one.

(Old post SSOG)I think there's some homerism here. Others have already answerred my post with stats and all. But for you to not admit it's comparable...240 yards diff over 3 years isn't a ton, 5 more TDs for Emmitt. Cmon now, this wasn't who was better just comparable

 

[David Dodds]

Ray Guy! Stop hating on punters.

 

[David Dodds]

I would vote these five in:

Bruce Matthews (long-time dominance. He should be a lock)

Tags (also a lock. New CBA, NFL riding high in ratings, etc)

Thurman Thomas (Not a lock, but extremely dominate. I put him above Davis)

Michael Irvin (His contribution as an announcer puts him in...LOL)

Ray Guy (It's ridiculous that he is not in the HOF. He redefined the position)

 

[Bri]

He'll be a first ballot inductee b/c he was THE dominaznt RB in the league for three or four years and translated that dominance into 2 championships (this is by far not the primary reason, but anyone who was so instrumental in getting Elway his rings gets in).

And by the way, he's from Colorado

 

[David Dodds]

Interested in the people that think Terrell Davis belongs in the HOF:

- Does Kurt Warner belong? His three-year stats are off the charts too?

- Does Priest Holmes belong? He was a TD machine in his big years?

I think TD was awesome when he played. But it was too short to have him better than Faulk, Martin, Thomas, Smith, etc. If he is going to get in the Hall of Fame, I agree it better be this year because it's going to get harder and harder (Bettis and others to join the list).

The fact that average backs excelled in the years after TD left (without Elway) is going to hurt TD a lot in my opinion. Had he played a few more years, he would have enough stats to be a lock. But right now, I think many won't vote for him. I definitely don't think he is anywhere near a lock. And as stated before, if he fails to get in now he may never get in (as Alexander, Tomlinson, Holmes, Faulk, Martin, Bettis, Smith, etc all cloud the issue).

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Ray Guy! Stop hating on punters.

Steve Tasker should get in before Ray Guy.

 

[David Dodds]

The Priest Holmes comparison.....

In Priests big 3 years he combined for 6,566 yards and 61 TDs in 46 games. Davis, in his big three years, had 6,110 combined yards and 53 TDs in 47 games.

For his career, Terrell Davis has just 8,887 combined yards and 65 TDs (in 81 regular season games). Priest Holmes has 10,980 combined yards and 94 TDs (in 108 games).

These players are quite similar, but I don't expect either to get in. I think three things are going to work against TD this year:

- Overall career numbers are weak (due to minimal games played)

- Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns putting up huge numbers after Elway in the same system.

and to a lesser extent:

- Priest Holmes and Marshall Faulk's huge years after Davis.

- LaDainian Tomlinson's HUGE year this season.

- People viewing Thurman Thomas (and possibly Ricky Watters) as having better careers

 

[Tau837]

Davis will get in the HoF and I even think he gets in 1st ballot. He was a gentleman on and off the field, he won 2 Super Bowls and look at his stats over a short period of time... 7,594 yards on offense and 61 TDs over his 1st 4 seasons in the league to go with 2 Super Bowl rings...he will make it into the Hall.

Davis also had 2,000 yds rushing and that will make a big impact on voters as well. People like him, he's getting in, this year too, so accept it.

Sig bet?

Too far into the future for a sig bet, but I'm willing to make a simple gentlemanly wager.In short, as willing as you are to sig bet he WON'T make it in on the first ballot, I am equally sure he WILL.

It is not even CLOSE, IMO - TD gets in THIS year. Emmitt next.

You will never see three guards in at the same time when a high profile running back who had 2G rushing in one season and owns 2 SB rings is standing right there.

Looks like I won our "gentlemanly wager", since Davis didn't make the list of finalists for the HOF this year. LINK

The 17 finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame:

• Fred Dean, DE, 1975-1981 Chargers, 1981-1985 49ers

• Richard Dent, DE, 1983-1993, 1995 Bears, 1994 49ers, 1996 Colts, 1997 Eagles

• Russ Grimm, G, 1981-1991 Redskins

• Ray Guy, P, 1973-1986 Raiders

• x-Gene Hickerson, G, 1958-1973 Browns

• Michael Irvin, WR, 1988-1999 Cowboys

• Bob Kuechenberg, G, 1970-1984 Dolphins

• Bruce Matthews, G/C, 1983-2001 Oilers/Titans

• Art Monk, WR, 1980-1993 Redskins, 1994 Jets, 1995 Eagles

• Andre Reed, WR, 1985-1999 Bills, 2000 Redskins

• x-Charlie Sanders, TE, 1968-1977 Lions

• Paul Tagliabue, NFL Commissioner, 1989-2006

• Derrick Thomas, LB, 1989-1999 Chiefs

• Thurman Thomas, RB, 1988-1999 Bills, 2000 Dolphins

• Andre Tippett, LB, 1982-1993 Patriots

• Roger Wehrli, CB, 1969-1982 Cardinals

• Gary Zimmerman, T, 1986-1992 Vikings, 1993-1997 Broncos

x-Seniors nominee

Looks like you may have been right after all... it's not even CLOSE. Oh, and by the way, Emmitt won't be in next year. He isn't eligible until 2010.

 

[Borat]

It would be nice to see Andre Tippett make it. He still holds the record for most sacks over a two-year span.

 

[Marc Levin]

Good call, It Is What It Is and Just Win Baby.

I misjudged the situation and you two were right.

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

My picks for the class of 2007.

- Tags

- Bruce Matthews

- Randall McDaniel

- Thurman Thomas

- Andre Tippett

- Derrick Thomas

 

[Borat]

My picks for the class of 2007.- Tags- Bruce Matthews- Randall McDaniel- Thurman Thomas- Andre Tippett- Derrick Thomas

I would agree with this list entirely.

 

[x260bm]

Bump

What time are they going to announce who made it today?