2007 HOF finalists announced (1 Viewer)

[Obie Wan]

Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?

His postseason performances.

but no better than Andre Reed who also has better career numbers.

 

[aaronr28]

Your 2007 Class will come from here...with Guy, Irvin, Thomas and Thomas being on the bubbleRay Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006 Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos

anyone who thinks Thurman Thomas is "on the bubble" is kidding themselves. it's ridiculous that he didn't get in on his first try but Jim Kelly did. he's a lock this year, and easily the strongest candidate in this class.

 

[fsufan]

Notably absent is Terrell Davis.

I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years

Personally, I'm still undecided as to Terrell's HOF-worthiness, but this is really an understatement of vast proportions. Especially, considering his postseason play and MVP (NFL and Super Bowl) honors.

To me the one of the criteria’s for the HOF is constant longevity. Every RB on this list played in the NFL for 10+ years with the exception of 4. There are only 2 HOF RBs that played under 10 years. The HOF cannot let all players in that had a few good games/years, it is the best of the best.Pro Football Hall of Fame Top 20 - Leading Lifetime Rushers

(At the Start of the 2005 NFL Season)

Rank Player League Yrs. Att. Yards Avg. TD

1 (1) EMMITT SMITH NFL 15 4,409 18,355 4.2 164

2 (2) Walter Payton * NFL 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110

3 (3) Barry Sanders * NFL 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99

4 (11) CURTIS MARTIN NFL 10 3,298 13,366 4.1 85

5 (6) JEROME BETTIS NFL 12 3,369 13,294 3.9 82

6 (4) Eric Dickerson * NFL 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90

7 (5) Tony Dorsett * NFL 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77

8 (7) Jim Brown * NFL 9 2,359 12,312 5.2 106

9 (8) Marcus Allen * NFL 16 3,022 12,243 4.1 123

10 (9) Franco Harris * NFL 13 2,949 12,120 4.1 91

11 (10) Thurman Thomas NFL 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65

12 (14) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 11 2,771 11,987 4.3 100

13 (12) John Riggins * NFL 14 2,916 11,352 3.9 104

14 (13) O.J. Simpson * AFL-NFL 11 2,404 11,236 4.7 61

15 (15) Ricky Watters NFL 10 2,622 10,643 4.1 78

16 (17) EDDIE GEORGE NFL 9 2,865 10,441 3.6 68

17 (16) O.J. Anderson NFL 14 2,562 10,273 4.0 81

18 (18) Joe Perry * AAFC-NFL 16 1,929 9,723 5.0 71

19 (--) COREY DILLON NFL 8 2,210 9,696 4.4 57

20 (19) Earl Campbell * NFL 8 2,187 9,407 4.3 74

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/rele...release_id=1403

There are 24 modern era RBs currently in the HOF. Only 11 are in the top 20 lifetime leading rushers. Davis played in more games than either Doak Walker or Gale Sayers.Being a HOFer is about far more than longevity.

I said one of the criteria’s for the HOF to me is constant longevity. It is just a matter of time befor Smith, Sanders, Betts, martin, faulk are in the HOF. I think Thomas should be in as well. If TD gets in then all the RBs on the above list should be in

 

[stevegamer]

Your 2007 Class will come from here...with Guy, Irvin, Thomas and Thomas being on the bubbleRay Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006 Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos

anyone who thinks Thurman Thomas is "on the bubble" is kidding themselves. it's ridiculous that he didn't get in on his first try but Jim Kelly did. he's a lock this year, and easily the strongest candidate in this class.

I think he's in, but I think Matthews & Guy are stronger candidates. It doesn't really matter when they get in, as long as they live long enough to enjoy the moment.

 

[MarshallRob]

Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?

His postseason performances.

but no better than Andre Reed who also has better career numbers.

They are better than Andre Reed's. Much better. Reed scored 1 TD in 9 championship games and he helped cost his team Super Bowl XXV with some huge drops.

 

[Sidewinder16]

I said one of the criteria’s for the HOF to me is constant longevity. It is just a matter of time befor Smith, Sanders, Betts, martin, faulk are in the HOF. I think Thomas should be in as well. If TD gets in then all the RBs on the above list should be in

That's fine if that's your own personal opinion.But it's not the opinion of the people who vote for HOFers. At least not judging by their previous inductions. Players have already been inducted that did not have constant longevity.I agree that Smith, Faulk, Thomas, Martin and Bettis will all (probably) be HOFers one day. But I strongly encourage anyone to take a good hard look at Terrell Davis, pre-1999. IMO, he was twice the back that guys like Bettis, Martin, Watters, George, Anderson and Dillon (top 20 rushers yet to make the Hall) ever were (yes, there is some hyperbole in there, but not much ). And that's why I think there is a legitimate case to be made to discuss Terrell Davis as a possible HOFer.

 

[Rogi]

Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?

Plus, he makes Mark McGwire look like Mother Teresa.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?

His postseason performances.

but no better than Andre Reed who also has better career numbers.

They are better than Andre Reed's. Much better. Reed scored 1 TD in 9 championship games and he helped cost his team Super Bowl XXV with some huge drops.

Reed should be in before Irvin for sure, and probably Monk. Reed was the best WR ever after catching the ball.

 

[ffchamp1]

Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.

1 season with 10+ TDs (95)

2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)

750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???

What am I missing here?

His postseason performances.

but no better than Andre Reed who also has better career numbers.

They are better than Andre Reed's. Much better. Reed scored 1 TD in 9 championship games and he helped cost his team Super Bowl XXV with some huge drops.

Reed should be in before Irvin for sure, and probably Monk. Reed was the best WR ever after catching the ball.

 

[dgreen]

Reed was the best WR ever after catching the ball.

 

[BoulderBob]

Irvin is a stone-cold lock...he was an amazing WR who put up stats in a run oriented offense...

If you're going to question the "all-worldliness" of any of the Cowboys, try the QB, not the playmaker...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AikmTr00.htm

 

[MarshallRob]

Irvin is a stone-cold lock...he was an amazing WR who put up stats in a run oriented offense...

If you're going to question the "all-worldliness" of any of the Cowboys, try the QB, not the playmaker...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AikmTr00.htm

I agree Irvin should be in but you can't be a stone-cold lock if you've been passed over twice already. Your point about the "run-oriented offense" is correct. Irvin's teams threw for only 209 TD's in his 12 seasons. About a third of those went to Irvin, which is a good percentage. To expect Irvin to have comparable career totals to guys who played on high-powered offenses is unrealistic and Hall of Fame recognition should be based on a player's own contributions rather than the type of offense his team ran.

 

[massraider]

Irvin is a stone-cold lock...he was an amazing WR who put up stats in a run oriented offense...

If you're going to question the "all-worldliness" of any of the Cowboys, try the QB, not the playmaker...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AikmTr00.htm

I agree Irvin should be in but you can't be a stone-cold lock if you've been passed over twice already. Your point about the "run-oriented offense" is correct. Irvin's teams threw for only 209 TD's in his 12 seasons. About a third of those went to Irvin, which is a good percentage. To expect Irvin to have comparable career totals to guys who played on high-powered offenses is unrealistic and Hall of Fame recognition should be based on a player's own contributions rather than the type of offense his team ran.

How about guys that never got to play for good teams?Irvin may have given up some stats being on that offense, but winning all those bowls is the reason he's a more legit candidate than Andre Reed.

He also might have some more TD's if he didn't get tackled at the 1 so often.

If they ever kept a stat for WR's that got tackled at the 1 or the 2 yard line, Irvin would be the all-time career leader. It was uncanny.

 

[Gottabesweet]

Andre Reed > Irvin any day!

 

[David Yudkin]

As I mentioned in many of the HOF threads, it is next to IMPOSSIBLE to compare players from different eras, as the game has morphed so many times over that the statistical results are tremendoudly hard to compare.

Here are some examples.

# of 3,000 yard passers per season on average:

1960-69: 3.3

1970-79: 2.0

1980-89: 11.1

1990-99: 11.8

2000-2006: 15.6

# of 1,000 yard rushers per season on average:

1960-69: 3.1

1970-79: 7.9

1980-89: 11.2

1990-99: 12.8

2000-2006: 18.6

# of 1000 yard receivers per season on average:

1960-69: 7.5

1970-79: 3.0

1980-89: 13.2

1990-99: 17.0

2000-2006: 20.3

# of RB with 2,000 yards from scrimmage per season on average:

1960-69: 0.1

1970-79: 0.4

1980-89: 1.4

1990-99: 1.4

2000-2006: 3.0

For example, the 1973 Buffalo Bills AS A TEAM compiled 96 receptions, 1,236 receiving yards, and 4 receiving TD. Since then, there have been 45 WR and 1 TE that have posted better than in a season in each category INDIVIDUALLY.

How this will all play out is a bit of a mystery, as players today can produce better stats in 5 seasons than players from decades ago put up in their entire careers. The voters will have to sort out if the flood of offensive production will get players in that have all produced impressive stats.

 

[Obie Wan]

Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?

His postseason performances.

but no better than Andre Reed who also has better career numbers.

They are better than Andre Reed's. Much better. Reed scored 1 TD in 9 championship games and he helped cost his team Super Bowl XXV with some huge drops.

I think not.The facts don't support it. Reed's playoff numbers are equal to Irvin's and his career stats simply bury Irvin.Reed played in the same era as Irvin and it snonsense to say that Reed benefited from a high powered offense while Irvin did not. The most passes Reed ever caught was 90 which pales to the 116 pulled in by Irvin.The only reason Irvin is under consideration is because his name has more recognition due to his frug busts and TV exposure. Reed Irvin Pro-Bowl 7 5 Regular Season Receptions 951 5th 750 20th Yards 13,198 8th 11,904 14th Yards / Rec 13.9 15.9 TD 87 10th 65 37th Playoffs games 19 16 Receptions 85 87 Yards 1,230 1,314 TD 9 8