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2007 Red Sox vs Yankees Season Series Thread (1 Viewer)

Doctor Detroit said:
wilked said:
Doctor Detroit said:
They have few threats in the line-up
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Can't tell if you are joking, buthttp://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_team_sta...mp;sortByStat=R

less then 20 runs behind Detroit for 3rd in the AL. Are you implying they cannot put up runs on the board? You say CLE is a team that can pitch and hit, but the stats show Boston has bested them in both areas. Show me any stat that puts Cle ahead of Bos for hitting this year (except HR)

Manny will be back this week...

Doctor Detroit said:
Gagne lost
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Last 7 appearances1.28 ERA

7 hits

7 IP

7 K

1 BB

I know you don't follow the team closely, and instead watch the headlines from earlier in the season when he struggled with the Red Sox, but he has returned to form lately

More likely the whole thing was a fishing trip from you following a tough loss that your team needed
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Get over yourself Wilked. I was actually being very rational and I often point to the defects of my team which you rarely, if ever, do. That would be called "irrational."With Gagne if he is back in black as you claim, why was he not used on Friday? Why was he not brought in the 8th yesterday? What's his ERA since arriving in Boston? You always (I mean you are the worst in this forum) of applying a small sample of stats to support your myopic theory that the Red Sox are king (the Clemens salary issue was by far your best effort). What were the game situations when Gagne pitched? they were behind for those last two innings. Seems like a good time to use a top notch set-p guy, or so one would think. If you don't think Francona is a complete idiot for the way he managed the games on Friday and yesterday then maybe you are the one not following the Red Sox.

I also said they lacked threats, please re-read my post instead of once again applying a small sample to a large category like hitting instead of dropping runs on me. Also stats don't mean anything in the playoffs and the moderately better Red Sox will have to face a Cleveland team with two outstanding starting pitchers, and a line-up that I certainly would take over the Red Sox. Do you honestly believe that regular season stats apply in a playoff series? I can't tell if you're joking. At this point in the year a baseball fan eyeballs things and notice patterns. I noticed Boston's line-up isn't scary at all, so did everyone else.

And you probably shouldn't compare Boston to Detroit. It's not even close. Sheffield was pretty much out for two months for one, and I don't think you'd find one taker that would have Ortiz/Manny/Drew over Sheff/Mags/Guillen. Tigers also have Curtis Granderson and Placido Polanco. Boston doesn't even come close. They have good balance overall and they do get the job done but they do not have any threats beyond Ortiz. When you get to the playoffs that will hurt. The Tigers have more holes in their line-up, but they have the big hitters and Granderson and Polanco.

I'll stop now because it is never really possible to argue with you when it comes to the Red Sox. I have no problem with that as long as you realize that not every post that slams the Red Sox is directed at you, and sometimes Wilked....they are true. I wasn't fishing at all. I think Francona is a boob for the way he managed last night. I'm pretty sure I'm right.
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Not a Sox fan, but one thing the Sox have over the Tigers is a playoff position.
 
lol, this post is hilarious. So by 'threats' do you mean 'home run hitters' :blackdot: Are you implying the Red Sox scored all those runs on smoke and mirrors? Red Sox outscored Cleveland, and by a bit, yet you call Cle the better hitting team. How do you justify that, other then 'regular season means nothing in the postseason'. You said Gagne's lost, I say lately he has looked good. I can't explain Tito's usage pattern Fri night, but the fact is that Gagne has looked very solid lately. Lost is a huge stretch.

As for this "Ortiz/Manny/Drew over Sheff/Mags/Guillen. Tigers also have Curtis Granderson and Placido Polanco. Boston doesn't even come close." that is also hilarious. I know you hate stats, and instead prefer things like 'scariness', but comparing Mags/Sheff/Guillen to Ortiz/Manny/Lowell (yes, Lowell is the #5 hitter, not Drew, try to follow along) you have the following OPS comparison: 1021/856/861 vs. 1040/890/880. Want to guess which 3 hitters beats the opposing 3 in OPS, in each head to head comparison?

What else...this is almost too easy. Boston has no one like Polanco. Maybe it's just my untrained eye, but these hitting stats look awfully similar...

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_s...amp;compare.y=5

Want to guess what happens if you take out Pedroia's very slow first month in the MLB?

Seriously, I understand you are upset Boston didn't win, as Detroit's chances are very slim now. Believe me, I would feel the same. If you want to point to Tito's mismanagement, so be it - I can't disagree much. But you are way off base in your other assertions...and how you can simply discount regular season stats (all 150 game of them) for things like 'scariness', well, I honestly thought you were smarter then that.

 
For the record since I can't say anything without the Tigers being brought up: They had their chance in August when Cleveland was struggling and they just kept losing. You can't depend on other teams to win or lose for you in the end and the Tigers lost a ton of games in July and August they should have won. They aren't out yet but they certainly are in a playoff race so I'm pretty happy about that. What I said about the Red Sox has nothing to do with Detroit.

 
wilked said:
lol, this post is hilarious. So by 'threats' do you mean 'home run hitters' :confused: Are you implying the Red Sox scored all those runs on smoke and mirrors? Red Sox outscored Cleveland, and by a bit, yet you call Cle the better hitting team. How do you justify that, other then 'regular season means nothing in the postseason'. You said Gagne's lost, I say lately he has looked good. I can't explain Tito's usage pattern Fri night, but the fact is that Gagne has looked very solid lately. Lost is a huge stretch.
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Lets look at the situation where Gagne has been used since he blew a save and lead in three appearances. These would be from the stats you offered earlier:Sux down 2

Sux down 1

Sux up 9

Sux up 6

Sux up 7

Sux down 1 (friday night when he should have pitched i the 8th)

Sux down 3 (last night)

What do you find strange about that? Maybe that they are not using him in games were they have a lead of 2 or less?

As for this "Ortiz/Manny/Drew over Sheff/Mags/Guillen. Tigers also have Curtis Granderson and Placido Polanco. Boston doesn't even come close." that is also hilarious. I know you hate stats, and instead prefer things like 'scariness', but comparing Mags/Sheff/Guillen to Ortiz/Manny/Lowell (yes, Lowell is the #5 hitter, not Drew, try to follow along) you have the following OPS comparison: 1021/856/861 vs. 1040/890/880. Want to guess which 3 hitters beats the opposing 3 in OPS, in each head to head comparison?
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I like how you swapped Mags and Sheffs numbers. Its 170/126, 128/167 129/126. Ortiz hits third for the Sux no? Sheff's been hurt for two months as I said before. He had a .950 OPS when he got hurt and it's almost 100 points lower now. Did you see Granderson's OPS? Who on Boston compares there? I overstated Boston doesn't come close, but the Tigers are a better hitting team. Doesn't matter though, Boston will be in the playoffs and the Tigers likely won't be.
Want to guess what happens if you take out Pedroia's very slow first month in the MLB?
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That you would overrate him even more?
 
Hey, I agree, the Tigers are a better hitting team, but not clearly better, slightly better (about the same as the the Sox are a slightly better hitting team then Cleveland). The Sox are a clearly better pitching squad then both clubs. Playoffs will be exciting, and with home field you would have to be extremely foolish not to give the Sox the edge to reach the ALCS. Once there, we will just have to reassess their status.

 
wilked said:
Hey, I agree, the Tigers are a better hitting team, but not clearly better, slightly better (about the same as the the Sox are a slightly better hitting team then Cleveland). The Sox are a clearly better pitching squad then both clubs. Playoffs will be exciting, and with home field you would have to be extremely foolish not to give the Sox the edge to reach the ALCS. Once there, we will just have to reassess their status.
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AL playoff matchups will be very good because three of the four teams have very good pitching. Yankees seem to have straightened out their pen but they have some ??? in their starting rotation IMO. But with all those sticks, might not matter. If Detroit somehow gets in, they are about in the same boat as the Yankees with good hitting and some holes in the starting rotation (never thought I would say that this year). NL? Not sure. I like those teams in the NL West and I guess the Mets are looking good with Pedro back and some really good position players. Can't say I follow the NL even half as close though. Oh and ack 34 was pretty happy with your helpful link last night. :thumbup:
 
shadyridr said:
Francona always seems to keep the starters in a bit longer than most managers. :X
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Certainly longer than Torre. I agree though, he wants the starter to be the hero and finish with round IP numbers. That said, he manages the game very differently in the playoffs...
 
It's easy to second guess Francona given Jeter's hit, but Schilling had thrown fewer than 90 pitches and had retired the Yanks consistently since Cano's homer...

Yes, they got two hits in a row, but he handled Damon pretty easily and had two strikes on Jeter...

He didn't get his pitch where he wanted to, and Jeter handled it...

But this didn't really strike me as a bad managerial decision at the time...

 
BTW, did anyone read about what happened in the Yanks bullpen while Rivera was warming up?

September 17, 2007 -- BOSTON - Mariano Rivera pitched the ninth inning of last night's game moments after his right arm went numb when hit by an errant toss that came from the Red Sox bullpen that adjoins the Yankees' pen beyond Fenway Park's right-field fence.

As Rivera prepared to protect a two-run lead in the bottom of the eighth, he was struck in the back of the elbow by a ball thrown wildly by Eric Gagne.

"It came in hot," said Yankees reliever Ron Villone, who witnessed the scary moment. "He couldn't feel his arm; it was numb. We were in the bullpen saying, 'Oh no.'
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http://www.nypost.com/seven/09172007/sport...o_dream_big.htmThat's just bizarre...

:potkettle:

Although it certainly could explain Rivera's uncharacteristic wildness...

weird stuff when these two teams meet

 
wilked said:
shadyridr said:
Francona always seems to keep the starters in a bit longer than most managers. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Certainly longer than Torre. I agree though, he wants the starter to be the hero and finish with round IP numbers. That said, he manages the game very differently in the playoffs...
Click to expand...
I also think there's something to be said about not taxing anyone in the staff leading into the playoffs when you're up 5.5 and barring a momumental collapse in the playoffs. Schilling had a bad pitch, so be it, but it would be much worse if he taxed the bully (in a tie game no less) leading into the final 2 weeks of the season. At this point, everything the Sox do should be to maximize their chances in the postseason.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
BTW, did anyone read about what happened in the Yanks bullpen while Rivera was warming up?

September 17, 2007 -- BOSTON - Mariano Rivera pitched the ninth inning of last night's game moments after his right arm went numb when hit by an errant toss that came from the Red Sox bullpen that adjoins the Yankees' pen beyond Fenway Park's right-field fence.

As Rivera prepared to protect a two-run lead in the bottom of the eighth, he was struck in the back of the elbow by a ball thrown wildly by Eric Gagne.

"It came in hot," said Yankees reliever Ron Villone, who witnessed the scary moment. "He couldn't feel his arm; it was numb. We were in the bullpen saying, 'Oh no.'
Click to expand...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09172007/sport...o_dream_big.htmThat's just bizarre...

:confused:

Although it certainly could explain Rivera's uncharacteristic wildness...

weird stuff when these two teams meet
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While Papelbon admitted to being "unable to focus" Friday night. He's got a long way to go before he earns any comparison to Rivera.

 
Darth Cheney said:
Sox = very little heart. 4th series in a row they could have severely damaged the Yanks season future and they lose the series.
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Yet they still have the best record in baseball and a 4.5 game lead on the Yankees. :whoosh:Amazing how that is considering they have little heart.
 
the moops said:
Darth Cheney said:
Sox = very little heart. 4th series in a row they could have severely damaged the Yanks season future and they lose the series.
Click to expand...
Yet they still have the best record in baseball and a 4.5 game lead on the Yankees. :popcorn:Amazing how that is considering they have little heart.
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Trust me. This team is a far cry from the 04 team. That team had guts. This is a bunch of ham n eggers who drew a favorable schedule at the end of the year that enabled them to hold off an incredible Yankee charge. I'm hoping this Sox team makes it to the ALCS as I see the Yanks having no problem with them. Be honest.... you can't possibly have confidence in this team?
 
Darth Cheney said:
the moops said:
Darth Cheney said:
Sox = very little heart. 4th series in a row they could have severely damaged the Yanks season future and they lose the series.
Click to expand...
Yet they still have the best record in baseball and a 4.5 game lead on the Yankees. :lol: Amazing how that is considering they have little heart.
Click to expand...
Trust me. This team is a far cry from the 04 team. That team had guts. This is a bunch of ham n eggers who drew a favorable schedule at the end of the year that enabled them to hold off an incredible Yankee charge. I'm hoping this Sox team makes it to the ALCS as I see the Yanks having no problem with them. Be honest.... you can't possibly have confidence in this team?
Click to expand...
I have complete confidence in them...They could have easily swept this weekend, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. That they didn't is not worth overlooking, but still...Ortiz hits a single up the middle and the story would be how the team is all heart. Seriously, your bait is quite stinky here.

btw, Yankees won't beat the Angels in a short series, so you better be cheering on the Indians in the next 2 weeks

 
wilked said:
Darth Cheney said:
the moops said:
Darth Cheney said:
Sox = very little heart. 4th series in a row they could have severely damaged the Yanks season future and they lose the series.
Click to expand...
Yet they still have the best record in baseball and a 4.5 game lead on the Yankees. :coffee: Amazing how that is considering they have little heart.
Click to expand...
Trust me. This team is a far cry from the 04 team. That team had guts. This is a bunch of ham n eggers who drew a favorable schedule at the end of the year that enabled them to hold off an incredible Yankee charge. I'm hoping this Sox team makes it to the ALCS as I see the Yanks having no problem with them. Be honest.... you can't possibly have confidence in this team?
Click to expand...
I have complete confidence in them...They could have easily swept this weekend, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. That they didn't is not worth overlooking, but still...Ortiz hits a single up the middle and the story would be how the team is all heart. Seriously, your bait is quite stinky here.

btw, Yankees won't beat the Angels in a short series, so you better be cheering on the Indians in the next 2 weeks
Click to expand...
Yeah and if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle. Ortiz didn't get the hit, the bullpen didn't hold the lead in two nights and they've lost the last four series to the Bombers. If it weren't for the complete ineptitude of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, the Yanks would be 2 1/2 with a real chance to win the division. Personally I'm glad you have confidence in the Drews, Gagnes, Crisps, Hinskes and Lugos of the team.
 
My buddy is a cardiologist so I asked him...

He said that in his professional opinion this Red Sox team has more heart than a 400 pounder with a 3 pack a day habit, but less heart than a small pony...

Just his :coffee:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Doctor Detroit said:
wilked said:
You said Gagne's lost, I say lately he has looked good. I can't explain Tito's usage pattern Fri night, but the fact is that Gagne has looked very solid lately. Lost is a huge stretch.
Click to expand...
Lets look at the situation where Gagne has been used since he blew a save and lead in three appearances. These would be from the stats you offered earlier:Sux down 2

Sux down 1

Sux up 9

Sux up 6

Sux up 7

Sux down 1 (friday night when he should have pitched i the 8th)

Sux down 3 (last night)

What do you find strange about that? Maybe that they are not using him in games were they have a lead of 2 or less?
Click to expand...
:thumbdown: Now we know why they won't use him. He blows.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I was expecting this...

Hey, at least it is settled pre-playoffs.

I wonder how much money Gagne has cost himself...10 million?

 
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