***2008 Broncos thread*** (1 Viewer)

[BusMan]

Training Camp Day 3 Notes:--there is some talk of Kenny Peterson getting starter reps at DT--WR Edell Shepherd has been IRed and Taylor Jacobs resigned--Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Clady, Young looking good on offense--Royal looks lightning fast and should be used in some creative ways on offense (end arounds)--Pittman not really impressing--Dumervil continues to struggle in run support--Webster is now running with the 1sts at MLB; Niko with the twos

--Prater looking good--DT Josh Mallard getting some good pub with his effort--Ryan Harris struggling at RT--Chris Kuper is still practicing at RG despite breaking his hand

 

[Chachi]

--Webster is now running with the 1sts at MLB; Niko with the twos

Well that didn't take long. Anyone in an IDP draft knows Niko was going top 30 and higher, I wasn't biting as the lack of talent was too glaring.

 

[Buffaloes]

I read that Scheffler has looked extremely good since camp started. Read that he looks fast and has been pretty dominant at times.

 

[Buffaloes]

--Webster is now running with the 1sts at MLB; Niko with the twos

Well that didn't take long. Anyone in an IDP draft knows Niko was going top 30 and higher, I wasn't biting as the lack of talent was too glaring.

It looks like it was planned...open competition btwn Niko and Websterhttp://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008...-battle-for-no/

 

[moleculo]

Training Camp Day 3 Notes:--there is some talk of Kenny Peterson getting starter reps at DT--WR Edell Shepherd has been IRed and Taylor Jacobs resigned--Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Clady, Young looking good on offense--Royal looks lightning fast and should be used in some creative ways on offense (end arounds)--Pittman not really impressing--Dumervil continues to struggle in run support--Webster is now running with the 1sts at MLB; Niko with the twos

--Prater looking good--DT Josh Mallard getting some good pub with his effort--Ryan Harris struggling at RT--Chris Kuper is still practicing at RG despite breaking his hand

busman - thanks for updating this. Where the heck is lammey with his bronco TC updates?!?!?!

 

[SSOG]

--Webster is now running with the 1sts at MLB; Niko with the twos

Well that didn't take long. Anyone in an IDP draft knows Niko was going top 30 and higher, I wasn't biting as the lack of talent was too glaring.

Bold prediction: Niko is back with the Ones on Tuesday.Niko and Webster are both alternating with the first string, two days each. Early on in camp, when it comes to unsettled positions, Denver will try all contenders with all strings to see how they each fare at each level. You'll probably see Pittman or Hall running with the Ones at some point- just try not to rush out and drop Selvin Young when it happens.

 

[moleculo]

Lynch out.

I'm sure the Broncos will miss his leadership and definately his run support, his pass coverage skills have been on the decline as of late - I'm sure that is what this is all about.

link

Lynch done with Broncos

Safety free to talk to other teams, Chargers might be interested

By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News

Originally published 02:39 p.m., July 30, 2008

Updated 07:07 p.m., July 30, 2008

John Lynch always said he hoped to finish his storied career in Denver – a place he said "my family has loved'' -- but the Broncos are expected to release the decorated safety this week, having already given him permission to seek other options both inside and outside of football.

"I'm going to explore all of my opportunities,'' Lynch said Wednesday night. "Is it retirement? Maybe. Is it playing for another team? Maybe. (Coach) Mike (Shanahan) has given me the opportunity to explore that and that's what I'm going to do. But I won't be playing for the Broncos.''

Shanahan could not be reached for comment Wednesday night, but Lynch was expected to make an appearance at the team's Dove Valley complex Thursday. Lynch had been excused from practice Wednesday morning for what Shanahan called "personal reasons,'' after Lynch had not attended team meetings Tuesday night.

The nine-time Pro Bowl selection, who was set to enter his 16th season overall, has wrestled with limited playing time thus far in training camp after taking a significant pay cut before re-signing with the team Feb. 29 with the understanding he would have a chance to compete for a starting job. He has consistently said he hoped to earn as much playing time as he could after an offseason filled with grueling workouts near his offseason home in San Diego.

"I had a good meeting with Mike (Wednesday),'' Lynch said. "There are no hard feelings, I'm just looking at what's out there. In my heart I want to play, but I need to look at everything right now and that's what I'm doing. Is playing still part of that? I really have to look at that and see.''

Lynch said Wednesday he would now like to gauge if he would have an opportunity to play regularly with another team, but added he would also look at things outside of football as well if he comes to the conclusion it is time to end his playing career.

However, the Chargers – he was raised in San Diego -- had expressed interest in Lynch when he was a free agent in 2004 and it is expected the team would at least reach out to Lynch again since he has permission from the Broncos to contact other teams.

Lynch has also previously drawn interest from television networks as well for work as an analyst.

Thus far in training camp Lynch had only lined up in the team's base defense and only on early-down situations. He had not taken a snap in the team's nickel (five defensive backs) or dime (six defensive backs) packages.

In the passing down packages Marlon McCree has usually been in Lynch's spot, teamed with Hamza Abdullah at safety.

"I have nothing but respect for John,'' McCree said. "It’s because of John that all these safeties in the league – Gibril Wilson, Mike Huff, Roy Williams, you know why they make so much money? It’s because of John Lynch. Let there be no mistake about it. The league didn’t even respect the position before John Lynch came. We are all indebted to John. This is taking me by surprise and I'm sorry to hear he decided to leave, but I wish him nothing but the best.”

"I can understand his frustration,'' said Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey. "He’s such a competitor with a lot of pride. I can understand where he’s coming from. One thing about John, he’s such an honest guy and honest player you’ve got to respect his decisions. He always knows what’s important – his family, his career and his team. It’s always in that order. You’ve got to respect that.

Lynch spent 11 seasons with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers before signing with the Broncos. He was named to a Pro Bowl – this year as an injury replacement for Colts' safety Bob Sanders – in each of his four seasons with the Broncos.

But the Broncos, who had taken Lynch off the field on passing downs in several games during the 2007 season, have seemingly moved on to other players at safety with the change in defensive scheme. And Lynch knew it was going to be a competition, having publicly said in the weeks leading up to training camp that he may have to "change some people's minds'' to play as much as he had in the past in Denver.

The team also asked him to take a pay cut in February and after being very close to leaving the team – he said he had a statement already composed announcing his departure – he signed a one year deal after an 11th-hour discussion with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen.

"I'm kind of shocked right now,'' Abdullah said. "This wasn’t the news I was expecting . . . but it’s going to definitely be a big void. You don’t replace John Lynch, a guy like that. You’ve just kind of got to do it by committee and hope the guys get behind some of the leaders that are already here in Champ (Bailey), and D.J (Williams). It’s going to be tough.''

When camp opened both Shanahan and defensive coordinator Bob Slowik gave their assessment of Lynch's chance to be a starter.

Shanahan said last week;

"I sat down and talked to John at the end of our OTAs and I think John knows as you get older there are no promises . . . John doesn't want any free lunches, he wants to go out there and compete. He'd like to be an every-down player . . . but that's part of the evaluation process.''

While Slowik had said;

"His chances are just as good as anyone else's chances, you just can't jump to any conclusions . . . we've got to let it unfold.''

Still, as the Broncos exited their afternoon practice Wednesday and began to prepare for their nightly meetings, it was starting to sink in that Lynch would no longer be among them.

"There was no locker room talk,'' said Broncos linebacker Nate Webster, who played with Lynch in Tampa. "There was no rumors going around. So on that note, he handled it as a professional. It’s still a surprise to me and a bit of blow because me and John go back. . . . But Johnny’s Johnny. And he felt like he did what he had to do.”

 

[BusMan]

The Broncos have released their first 2008 depth chart.

Of note:

--The RB pecking order is Young, Hall, Torain, Aldridge; Pittman is listed as the third-string FB. At this point it wouldn't be terribly surprising for him to not make the team.

--Darrell Jackson is the #2 WR, while Keary Colbert is the third string #2 behind Stokley.

--With Montrae Holland continuing to miss practice as he tries to make weight, Chris Kuper has taken his spot at RG and Ryan Harris has the starting RT position.

--Marcus Thomas is lining up next to Dewayne Robertson at DT.

--Nate Webster is the #1 MLB; Koutouvides is #2.

--Marlon McCree has moved into the FS spot vacated by John Lynch.

--Royal is the first string PR and KR.

 

[moleculo]

The Broncos have released their first 2008 depth chart.

...

--Darrell Jackson is the #2 WR, while Keary Colbert is the third string #2 behind Stokley.

...

how do you see this playing out? Here's my take: obviously, Stokley is in on 3 WR sets (in the slot), but that's probably it. So - looks like Royal will be spelling BMarshall, which seams to make sense as they both appear to be good YAC guys and might be useful in end arounds, WR screens, etc. That's the role Shanahan likes for the deep threat, played by young Rod Smith, Lelie, and JWalker. The possession role was embodied by McAffrey and old Rod Smith (and really, no one last year) is what is up for grabs now, and that's between DJax and Colbert. I Think DJax is more talented and more experienced in WC offenses, but I'm not sure his hands are good enough, nor if he is physical enough in the running game.

Regardless, Royal should be in the WR1 role for the first three games, which is interesting. Good guy to buy low (draft) and sell high (after week 3). I'm not sure what his role would be w/ Marshall back, outside of PR/KR duties, but he could definitely carve out some more PT with a good three games.

 

[BusMan]

The Broncos have released their first 2008 depth chart.

...

--Darrell Jackson is the #2 WR, while Keary Colbert is the third string #2 behind Stokley.

...

how do you see this playing out? Here's my take: obviously, Stokley is in on 3 WR sets (in the slot), but that's probably it. So - looks like Royal will be spelling BMarshall, which seams to make sense as they both appear to be good YAC guys and might be useful in end arounds, WR screens, etc. That's the role Shanahan likes for the deep threat, played by young Rod Smith, Lelie, and JWalker. The possession role was embodied by McAffrey and old Rod Smith (and really, no one last year) is what is up for grabs now, and that's between DJax and Colbert. I Think DJax is more talented and more experienced in WC offenses, but I'm not sure his hands are good enough, nor if he is physical enough in the running game.

Regardless, Royal should be in the WR1 role for the first three games, which is interesting. Good guy to buy low (draft) and sell high (after week 3). I'm not sure what his role would be w/ Marshall back, outside of PR/KR duties, but he could definitely carve out some more PT with a good three games.

First of all I think the first depth chart of the preseason isn't likely to be anywhere close to the opening day one. At this point, so much good press has come out for Royal, and its been relatively silent for Colbert. Part of that is the excitement due to Royal being a rookie, but I believe he's outperformed Colbert thus far. Considering Royal is also the first string PR/KR, he is way more valuable than Keary.So the way I see it right now:

Marshall and Jackson will get the start during preseason, with Stokley playing the slot and likely moving outside with the second string, where he'll be joined by Royal. Colbert and Martinez with run with the thirds (sounds like this is already happening---scroll down to "Take Aways").

Once the season hits, Royal should slide up into Marshall's position. Colbert appears to be riding the fence of making the squad right now. His run blocking skills were supposed to be a key to his contributions, but if he can't make his way up the depth chart, those skills won't do the Broncos any good.

I agree with your takes on their roles.

Man I wish Marshall wasn't suspended---sounds like he has been tearing up camp.

 

[moleculo]

The fatal flaw for the 2007 Broncos was run D, who allowed 4.6 YPC, 31'st in the NFL. Will this years D be any better?

At this point in pre-season last year, Denver had given up 80 rushes for 366 yards and 5 TD's, a 4.6 YPC average. This year, Denver has yielded 88 rushes for 304 yards and 2 TD's, a 3.5 YPC average. The only common opponent was Dallas - Last year Barber had 11 carries, 57 yards and 2 TD's, averaging 5.2 YPC. This year, Barber had 5 carries for 22 yards and 0 TD's, 4.4 YPC. Based purely on results, this years run D looks to be significantly improved vs last year.

What has changed between this year and last? This is pre-season we are talking about, so the above numbers represent a mix of starters, back-ups, and guys who didn't make the roster, so I don't think we can attribute any numbers to personnel - therefore we have to attribute any difference to scheme.

http://www.9news.com/sports/pro_football/n...76&catid=72

...

The Broncos made significant changes in the offseason, starting with a change in defensive boss from Jim Bates to Bob Slowik, who installed a simpler, read-and-react system that players like more.

"You take the thinking out of it and let guys be athletes and do what got them here, that's a lot better versus a guy thinking and reacting slow," Peterson said. "By taking the thinking process out of it, you can react and play ball."

The philosophy seems to be working. The first-team defense has played well in the Broncos' first three preseason games.

"I think we've made some strides since the start of camp," Shanahan said. "We talked about our rush defense, and we've improved in that area. About 3.5 per rushing attempt after probably giving up (4.6) last year, so it's a big difference. But you're always working constantly. There's always things to work on and get better at. A lot of guys in new positions, so it's a constant battle."

...

If there is a correlation between pre-season and regular season performances, we have to accept that Denver might not be a "must-start" for opposing RB's. And, if the run D is improved to, say, average, the Den O won't be in a hole all season and things can only get better.Or, maybe I've got my homer glasses on again.

 

[BusMan]

I agree that any hope our run defense has in improving this year is based almost purely on scheme. Our only significant DL acquisition was Robertson. Assuming second-year DT Marcus Thomas continues to improve, we may have cause for giving the DL an uptick. I also think our personnel work much better in a one-gap penetrating scheme rather than Bate's two-gap block eating system.

The LBs behind the line appear to have improved, if you consider Boss Bailey an upgrade over Ian Gold (which the league appears to believe, since Gold didn't get any sniffs in FA and retired). DJ Williams moves to his more natural spot at WLB, while Nate Webster goes from last years SAM to this year's MIKE, also a more natural position for him. Depth at LB seems decent, with Winborn, Green, and Niko. Woodyard is a fast riser too.

Which brings us back to the strength of the defense, the secondary. I believe we have four starting caliber CBs (Paymah's tackling skills certainly makes this debatable), while the starting safeties have experience but are an unknown for the Broncos.

I don't place much stock in preseason statistics, but I do think that in general, the run defense is trending up. The Raiders game should be an excellent first-game test of the new scheme. The Raiders have a strong running game and a weak passing game, which matches up with our perceived weak running defense and strong pass D. If the Broncos can contain Run DMC, Fargas, and Bush early on, hopefully our offense can put the Raiders in a situation where they have to go pass-heavy, which can only mean good things overall. I see this game being decided in the first half, and based entirely on the Broncos ability to contain the Raiders running backs. Russell isn't going to win this thing for the Raiders.

One more note on the scheme change: I really believe the players buy into Slowik's system. Its a more instinctive scheme that doesn't require all the head games of the Bates system. Its also a blitzing scheme, which is exactly what a weak rush defense with a strong secondary should do, IMO.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I read the other day that the last time the Broncos missed the playoffs three seasons in a row was '80-'82. If they miss the playoffs this season, it will be the third year in a row. Ugh. I have no doubt that the offense will flourish this year, but the defense must make major strides to avoid a 3rd straight non-playoffs season.

 

[BusMan]

ESPN Fantasy has a rational, reasonable take on the Broncos RBs this year.

32 Questions: What to make of Denver's running game

By Jim McCormick

Special to ESPN.com

Is it worth rolling the dice on a Denver running back?

Call it "The Never-Ending Running Back Story."

The Denver running back scenario has been the bane of fantasy owners since Clinton Portis was shipped to Washington for Champ Bailey in February 2004, truly beginning Mike Shanahan's shenanigans.

In Shanahan's 13 seasons as the Broncos' coach, the starting running back in Week 1 has lost his job during that season six times. Those 13 seasons include the five seasons that either Terrell Davis or Portis was the traditional feature back, getting about 300 carries. So in reality, "The Shanahan Switch" has been made in six of eight seasons.

Ken Daube's brilliant piece on the death of the two-stud-running-back theory included some information particularly pertinent to Denver. In the article, Daube highlighted ESPN's Jason Vida's telling research about the decline of the feature back: "The player who led his team in rushing attempts accounted for fewer than 54 percent of his team's attempts, the lowest percentage in the past 10 NFL seasons. At the same time, the player with the second-most rushing attempts on his team got the ball on more than 23 percent of his team's attempts, the highest percentage in the past 10 NFL seasons."

Call the Broncos progressive. They've been "sharing" the load among their RB corps for years now. Let's take a look at the numbers post-Portis:

* 2004: Out-of-nowhere fantasy stud Reuben Droughns leads the team with 275 carries, 1,481 total yards and eight touchdowns. Quentin Griffin and Tatum Bell factor in with 85 and 75 carries, respectively.

* 2005: Out-of-nowhere fantasy stud Mike Anderson posts 239 rushes for 1,014 yards and 12 TDs, plus 18 catches for 212 yards and a TD. Bell carries the ball 173 times for 921 yards and eight TDs.

* 2006: The torch is passed to Bell, who accumulates 233 rushes for 1,025 yards with two TDs, plus 24 catches for 115 yards. But yet another undrafted tailback emerges, as Mike Bell posts 157 rushes for 677 yards and eight TDs, plus 20 catches for 158 yards.

* 2007: Travis Henry rushes 167 times for 691 yards and four TDs while Selvin Young nets 140 rushes for 729 yards and a TD, plus 35 catches for 231 yards.

Only Droughns in 2004 and Anderson in '05 posted truly valuable, yearlong fantasy seasons. Since then, no Denver running back has established much job security or consistent production. Last season was a low point for fantasy value among the Denver running back corps, as the Broncos didn't have a 1,000-yard running back for the first time since 2001.

Second-year back Young, the team's leading rusher in 2007, was named the starter heading into '08 a few weeks ago after the job had been up for grabs for much of the offseason. The undrafted Young was effective in limited carries with an impressive 5.2 yards-per-carry average last season but failed to prove he was either durable or a goal-line threat. When asked if he felt Young could bear a heavy workload, Shanahan was less than confident.

"No, definitely not," Shanahan said. "Anytime a guy's been hurt as many times as he did, you know that there's no possible way he can carry the ball 20, 25 times a game. The body just won't hold up. He went down too many times this year. But you are looking at a guy that you know has big-play potential."

Shanahan later estimated that, given Young's lack of size and durability, the back should receive 15 carries per game. If Young were to hold onto the job throughout the year and maintain this 15-carry clip, however unlikely, he certainly would rack up more than 1,000 yards even with a drop in his yards per carry. Yet, there's always a catch with the Broncos.

When you consider drafting Young this season, you also will need to know the team's RB depth chart intimately. Andre Hall currently is Young's backup and, if the preseason so far is any indicator, looks to be in line to take the goal-line carries. Impressive rookie Ryan Torain was slated to be the goal-line back after winning over Shanahan, but he is out three months with an elbow injury. Hall replaced Young in the red zone on the Broncos' first two drives against the Cowboys last weekend and was used as the short-yardage back, tallying seven rushes for 24 yards and a touchdown.

This being Denver, there are of course more names to consider. Anthony Alridge moved up to third on the depth chart with Torain out and is the most recent in a long line of undrafted rookie running backs with whom Shanahan has fallen in love. The slight, speedy Alridge was an effective scat-back at the University of Houston and has been impressive so far in camp. He reportedly is excelling at identifying the cutback lanes the Broncos' system thrives on. Former Buc Michael Pittman is being converted to fullback, yet he is the most talented pass-catching back on the roster. However, Pittman currently isn't a threat for many carries.

Denver's famous zone-blocking scheme is the very reason the RB scenario has long been such a fantasy enigma. It's so effective that it allows the team to essentially plug and play a variety of inexpensive backs without much dropoff in production. Whenever one of these players is underperforming or injured, the team simply dives into its stash, thus the current four-headed monster.

If this current Young/Hall split continues, look for this season to mirror 2006. Young should play the Tatum Bell role on his way to 1,000 yards, mostly between the 20s, with a modest TD total, and Hall should play the vulture role Mike Bell so ably performed. Alridge and Pittman, for good measure, are the ever-present wild cards.

Young currently is going 72nd overall (sixth or seventh round), according to ESPN live draft results, with a cheap average auction price of just $5.70. Hall is landing in the late rounds, more often than not to Young investors, while Alridge and Pittman often go undrafted. If you like reading fantasy updates and enduring Sunday morning stress, you should draft Young as your third, possibly fourth, running back depending on your league's rules. If you invest in Young in the middle rounds, you'll want to nab Hall several rounds later and target Pittman and Alridge throughout the season.

Jim McCormick is an analyst for ESPN.com fantasy football.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Let's make this the 2008 thread, instead of the offseason thread, okay?

Nice win over the Raiders tonight, to get to 1-0, but can they finally get over the hump and beat the Chargers next week?

 

[broncofan13000]

Denver looked unstoppable tonight. I can't wait to see what Cutler can do with BOTH Royal and Marshall at his disposal. Denver's O-line was dominating. Not sure if that was just how bad the Raiders were, or how improved the Bronco's O-line was.

Oh, and the running games is a full blown RBBC.

 

[Buffaloes]

Offensive line looks great.

 

[rascal]

Nice win and impressive performance by the offense obviously.

That defense is barely average though and our LB's are probably the worst in the league despite a stud in DJ.

 

[moleculo]

Let's make this the 2008 thread, instead of the offseason thread, okay? Nice win over the Raiders tonight, to get to 1-0, but can they finally get over the hump and beat the Chargers next week?

works for me! first post updated.Man, what a fantastic win. I haven't felt this great about a non-playoff win since the Broncos shutout oak in 1996 or so. Complete domination.Run D looked much better. Outside of the Fargas run (I know, it still counts, but it was in garbage time), Denver allowed 3.6 YPC, which is much improved. I was happy to see some kick-offs go into the end-zone - let's hope to see more of that, as KO coverage still isn't up to par.Eddie Royal - man, I'm impressed. Wow. Besides from his heady plays of trowing the ball away, taking the knee, Besides his amazing abilities before and after the catch, besides his gerat hands snagging passes out of the air, the thing that impressed me the most is when he fumbled on the punt return, HE was the guy at the bottom of the pile that came out with the ball. Kid is a fighter!

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah, it was hard not to be impressed with Royal tonight. I am sure future opponents will jam him at the line more, and let's face it, he is a rookie, so he isn't going to blow up every week, but he is a threat now, and with Marshall coming back and Cutler looking like a top QB (as I figured he would this year; 3rd year in the WCO is always when QBs make that huge leap), the offense could be scary good this year, and with their defense, they might have to be for the team to have a shot at the playoffs.

I thought the defense still looked way too leaky tonight. There were plays to be made all over the place, but the Raiders were too inept to take advantage. The Chargers and Saints pose huge tests the next two Sundays, so it will be interesting to see where they are in 14 days.

 

[Raider Nation]

Nice game. Can you mail my dignity back when you get a chance?

 

[moleculo]

Nice game. Can you mail my dignity back when you get a chance?

just beat the chiefs next week - a win will fix everything.

 

[Raider Nation]

Can't wait for Joe's next email.

UPGRADES:

Jay Cutler

Michael Pittman

Eddie Royal

DOWNGRADES:

The Oakland Raiders

-J

 

[Prodigal19]

Yeah, it was hard not to be impressed with Royal tonight. I am sure future opponents will jam him at the line more, and let's face it, he is a rookie, so he isn't going to blow up every week, but he is a threat now, and with Marshall coming back and Cutler looking like a top QB (as I figured he would this year; 3rd year in the WCO is always when QBs make that huge leap), the offense could be scary good this year, and with their defense, they might have to be for the team to have a shot at the playoffs.

I thought the defense still looked way too leaky tonight. There were plays to be made all over the place, but the Raiders were too inept to take advantage. The Chargers and Saints pose huge tests the next two Sundays, so it will be interesting to see where they are in 14 days.

Good luck with that. Royal showed during training camp and the preseason taht he is extremely good at getting off the jam. He did a better job at it then the rest of the broncos receivers.

 

[moleculo]

I'm really looking forward to what Shanahan comes up with Marshall AND royal on the field at the same time. He's never had two playmakers like this available to him.

First offensive play of the game - Cutler pitches to royal on an end-around, and gets out in fromt to block - I don't think I've never seen a play like that before. Royal with the end-around with the throw - well, we've seen that before, but to trust a rook in that spot is pretty impressive.

The play-calling possibilities with WR's on either side, each capable of a big gain on the end-around - gotta make Shanahan drool.

I guarantee that Shanahan runs a double reverse or an end-around-fake -reverse in the first series next week - even if it doesn't work, it will pay dividends by making the DE/OLB's stay home and open up some running lanes.

 

[SSOG]

I'm really looking forward to what Shanahan comes up with Marshall AND royal on the field at the same time. He's never had two playmakers like this available to him.

Oh? We'll ignore Ed McCaffrey, since he was always a "playmaker" in the "move the chains" mold, rather than a lightning rod like Marshall or Royal, but even still... Rod Smith/Shannon Sharpe down? Or better yet, Smith/Sharpe/Portis? Or what about 2004, when Smith averaged 15 yards a grab, Lelie posted over TWENTY yards a grab, Tatum Bell was posting 5+ yards a tote, and Jeb Putzier posted an absurd 16 yards per grab (to say nothing of the 14 yards per reception Kyle Johnson managed to put up, or Hape's 4 TDs in 8 catches). Shanahan's had plenty of playmakers before, and he's proven time and again that he knows what to do with them, which is what makes this so exciting.And before anyone scoffs at my Ashley Lelie comparison... Royal's a rookie with one game under his belt. I don't think it's at all unfair to compare him to a guy who posted a 1,000 yard season while averaging a league-leading (and mind-boggling) 20 yards a grab.

 

[tietzjd]

The running back spot is mess for FF. I am not sure if worth well to hold on to nay of the backs in 10 Man , 13 roster spot leauge. Might just drop Young pick up that TE in MIA

 

[Ghost Rider]

I am guessing moleculo meant "two playmakers" in the sense of having two wide receivers who are capable of making big plays, and while McCaffrey was great, that was never really his forte. He was tough and gutsy, and always made the tough catches, but making long gains out of nothing was never really his thing. And by the time Lelie was around and had his one good season, Rod Smith wasn't the big play threat he had been in years past, so if Royal can be productive all year, it is exciting to think about how great the Broncos offense could be this year.

And does anyone else think that this week's game against San Diego is a must-win? I mean, if they are really going to contend this year, they cannot be dropping home games to division opponents again, especially one that is reeling a bit right now (they just lost at home to Carolina, and just lost their best defensive player for the season). The Broncos need to take advantage of all of this and take control of the AFC West back; to do so, they must beat the Chargers this week.

 

[SSOG]

I am guessing moleculo meant "two playmakers" in the sense of having two wide receivers who are capable of making big plays, and while McCaffrey was great, that was never really his forte. He was tough and gutsy, and always made the tough catches, but making long gains out of nothing was never really his thing. And by the time Lelie was around and had his one good season, Rod Smith wasn't the big play threat he had been in years past, so if Royal can be productive all year, it is exciting to think about how great the Broncos offense could be this year. And does anyone else think that this week's game against San Diego is a must-win? I mean, if they are really going to contend this year, they cannot be dropping home games to division opponents again, especially one that is reeling a bit right now (they just lost at home to Carolina, and just lost their best defensive player for the season). The Broncos need to take advantage of all of this and take control of the AFC West back; to do so, they must beat the Chargers this week.

I don't know. Schematically speaking, having two deep threats isn't really that much of an advantage over having one deep threat, since it's not like you'll be sending them both deep at the same time. Generally, elite offenses have one elite deep threat and one elite underneath guy.And it's far too early to be talking about must-wins.

 

[Ghost Rider]

True, but it is not like Royal or Marshall are just deep threats, like Lelie was. They can do other things, too, but the threat of the deep ball is always there, especially when you have a QB with the gun that Cutler has. Having Stokely as the number 3 in there, as well, should work to the benefit of everyone.

And maybe it is too early to be talking about must-wins, but given that they haven't beaten the Chargers since '05 (I think), getting over that hump could be a huge confidence boost for the entire team, while another loss to them, at home, no less, could set them back. Yes, it is early, but do you really think the Broncos can lose both games to the Chargers (if they lose to them at home, why would we think they would win in SD later this season) and still win the division? Not trying to be negative; just realistic.

 

[SSOG]

And maybe it is too early to be talking about must-wins, but given that they haven't beaten the Chargers since '05 (I think), getting over that hump could be a huge confidence boost for the entire team, while another loss to them, at home, no less, could set them back. Yes, it is early, but do you really think the Broncos can lose both games to the Chargers (if they lose to them at home, why would we think they would win in SD later this season) and still win the division? Not trying to be negative; just realistic.

Losing at home doesn't guarantee a loss on the road, especially since teams change a ton during the year. Also, since when is winning the division the be-all, end-all? The last two SB champs have both been wildcards. Denver's won a SB as a wildcard already, too. Getting to the playoffs is all that matters- after that, everyone is 0-0. And yeah, I think Denver can get swept by San Diego (not that I think they're going to, but just that they can), still go 4-2 in the division, and make the playoffs.Remember, San Diego started last year 1-3 and everyone thought they were sunk. The Giants also had a terrible start. The 2003 New England Patriots had a terrible start. Carolina started 1-6 in... 2004, 2005?... and almost rallied to make the playoffs (albeit in a much weaker NFC). There's no such thing as a must-win in Week 2. Must-wins are creations of the sensationalistic media (which is always going on about the Game Of The Century Of The Month). Must-wins come in week 14, 15, 16, 17 when a team is battling for playoff positioning, and then again in the playoffs when a loss means a ticket home. I can't ever think of a single week 2 game, between any two teams, at any point in NFL history, which even remotely qualified as a must-win, or a virtual must-win, or a quasi-must-win, or anything of the sort. It's week 2.

 

[moleculo]

And maybe it is too early to be talking about must-wins, but given that they haven't beaten the Chargers since '05 (I think), getting over that hump could be a huge confidence boost for the entire team, while another loss to them, at home, no less, could set them back. Yes, it is early, but do you really think the Broncos can lose both games to the Chargers (if they lose to them at home, why would we think they would win in SD later this season) and still win the division? Not trying to be negative; just realistic.

Losing at home doesn't guarantee a loss on the road, especially since teams change a ton during the year. Also, since when is winning the division the be-all, end-all? The last two SB champs have both been wildcards. Denver's won a SB as a wildcard already, too. Getting to the playoffs is all that matters- after that, everyone is 0-0. And yeah, I think Denver can get swept by San Diego (not that I think they're going to, but just that they can), still go 4-2 in the division, and make the playoffs.Remember, San Diego started last year 1-3 and everyone thought they were sunk. The Giants also had a terrible start. The 2003 New England Patriots had a terrible start. Carolina started 1-6 in... 2004, 2005?... and almost rallied to make the playoffs (albeit in a much weaker NFC). There's no such thing as a must-win in Week 2. Must-wins are creations of the sensationalistic media (which is always going on about the Game Of The Century Of The Month). Must-wins come in week 14, 15, 16, 17 when a team is battling for playoff positioning, and then again in the playoffs when a loss means a ticket home. I can't ever think of a single week 2 game, between any two teams, at any point in NFL history, which even remotely qualified as a must-win, or a virtual must-win, or a quasi-must-win, or anything of the sort. It's week 2.

week 2 wins count just as much in the final tally as week 14-17.I'm not saying this is must-win, but it is still an extremely important game.

 

[moleculo]

I am guessing moleculo meant "two playmakers" in the sense of having two wide receivers who are capable of making big plays, and while McCaffrey was great, that was never really his forte. He was tough and gutsy, and always made the tough catches, but making long gains out of nothing was never really his thing. And by the time Lelie was around and had his one good season, Rod Smith wasn't the big play threat he had been in years past, so if Royal can be productive all year, it is exciting to think about how great the Broncos offense could be this year.

this is exactly what I meant. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm defining "playmaker" as someone who can turn a routine play into a big gain. While I am as big a fan of McAffrey as anyone, his specialty was the tough catch - getting leveled and holding onto the ball. He was the posession guy, not a YAC guy who can take a WR screen or an end-around and turn it up the field. WR screens and end-arounds are the plays specifically for playmaker WR's, per my definition, and I believe that these type of plays are as critical for this offense as the bootleg in that they draw the LB's out of the middle of the field and open up running lanes.Lelie was more of a pure deep threat - he wasn't a fantastic runner in space.In hindsight, having two playmakers @ WR is something Shanahan has been trying to get for years - hence Lelie & Javon to go with RSmith. Shanahan never really tried to replace the McAffrey role (possession WR) until Stokley came to town. I had always assumed that RSmith had simply "graduated" to that role, but I am not so sure that was the intent.

 

[Manster]

Cowboys fan here.

i REALLY like Cutler. i think he gives you a legit shot at winning the AFC West. especially since SD is looking pretty banged up.

 

[KoolKat]

I was suprised at how good Royal looked. His routes were unbelievably polished for a rookie. The first person that came to my mind was Ike Bruce. If this is how good he is in his very first game, imagine how good he will be after a year or two under his belt.

As far as the RB goes, I think it is pretty obvious that Andre Hall is the most talented running back in that backfield. He should be getting the lion share of the carries in my opinion.

The comfort I feel with Cutler at QB is comparable to what I felt when Elway was the helm. I am happy to see a lot more shotgun in the playbook. That was something Shanny utilized very well in the super bowl years, but was unable to use with Griese or Plummer, b/c they preferred to take the ball from directly underneath center. It is a formation that gives Cutler more time, and will be veryt beneficial to the O.

The O-Line looked much better than I expected, especially when it came to pass blocking. We'll see how it holds up against some of the elite pass rushers, but I am optimistic after the stellar week 1 performance. The run blocking left something to be desired, but we were still able to move the ball. I am not too worried about that phase of the game, because we always seem to be able to find a way to move the ball on the ground.

The defense looked really good, save the 4th quarter. The rush D may be a concern. I think we will learn a lot more about the D against San Diego.

 

[SSOG]

week 2 wins count just as much in the final tally as week 14-17.I'm not saying this is must-win, but it is still an extremely important game.

A 0-0 team can lose its first five games and still make the playoffs, so none of those games are must-wins. An 8-7 team can't lose its last game and make the playoffs when there are two other potential wildcard teams sitting at 9-6, so therefore that last game is a must-win.Losing tomorrow won't eliminate the Broncos from the playoffs, so it's not a must win, no matter how much the media will try to convince us all otherwise. If they screw up, they will have 15 more weeks to remedy their mistakes.

As far as the RB goes, I think it is pretty obvious that Andre Hall is the most talented running back in that backfield. He should be getting the lion share of the carries in my opinion.

I still think Young is more talented than Hall (and that Hall's a heaping pile of nothing special), but I'm getting more and more excited about finally seeing Torain in game situations to see what he can do.

 

[moleculo]

amazing game today - in terms of drama, this was one of the best games I've seen in a really long time. I'm pretty sure I scared the crap out of my 20 month old on more than one occasion, yelling at the TV.

Let me be the first to say in this thread that Den won because of a couple of lucky blown calls - the Bailey int and the Cutler "fumble".

I was pretty disapointed by the Sproles KR - terrible. We cannot afford crap like that. ST is killing us again.

Cutler looked fantastic outside of the int and the "fumble". Very impressed w/ the game plan & the # of passes thrown. Almost a 2:1 ratio of passes vs rushes today. Clearly this is a different Den O than we are accustomed to.

Defensively - decent job vs the rush, but the Broncos allowed Rivers WAY too much time. He looked fantastic today - did his jersey even get dirty?!?!?! With as much time as they gave Rivers, the recievers were WAY too open.

I'll take the win, but Denver D better get better fast if they want to be an upper echilon AFC team this year, like that O is capable of.

J. Cutler 36/50 350 4 1 - wow.

 

[Foosball God]

I'm not a big fan of Skeletor but damn that call to go for two took a lot of balls. He would have been roasted if they hadn't converted, but since they did you have to just give kudos for having brass ones.

 

[Ghost Rider]

SSOG, you are right about teams not having to win a game in week 2, but for the psyche of this Broncos team, I think today's win was huge. If they had lost, it would have been, great, we still can't beat the Chargers, and the whole season would have been an uphill battle. With the win, especially given the way it happened, it had to have been a huge confidence builder.

Back to the team, the offense is just on fire right now. 80 points in two games. Wow. Marshall and Royal are an awesome 1-2 tandem at WR, and I don't care who the featured RB is from week to week, so long as the production stays consistent. And Jay Cutler is just awesome right now.

The defense is still scary as hell, though. A pass rush would be nice.

 

[Raider Nation]

Nice win, guys. One of the most entertaining games I've ever seen, especially as a Cutler/Marshall owner.

I wish we could swap rosters with you guys. The future is bright in the Rockies.

 

[tommyGunZ]

good game donkey fans. We'll see you in December.

 

[SSOG]

amazing game today - in terms of drama, this was one of the best games I've seen in a really long time. I'm pretty sure I scared the crap out of my 20 month old on more than one occasion, yelling at the TV.Let me be the first to say in this thread that Den won because of a couple of lucky blown calls - the Bailey int and the Cutler "fumble".I was pretty disapointed by the Sproles KR - terrible. We cannot afford crap like that. ST is killing us again.Cutler looked fantastic outside of the int and the "fumble". Very impressed w/ the game plan & the # of passes thrown. Almost a 2:1 ratio of passes vs rushes today. Clearly this is a different Den O than we are accustomed to. Defensively - decent job vs the rush, but the Broncos allowed Rivers WAY too much time. He looked fantastic today - did his jersey even get dirty?!?!?! With as much time as they gave Rivers, the recievers were WAY too open.I'll take the win, but Denver D better get better fast if they want to be an upper echilon AFC team this year, like that O is capable of.J. Cutler 36/50 350 4 1 - wow.

You know what disappointed me most about special teams? 8 kickoffs, 1 touchback. At altitude. This Prater kid was supposed to have a big-time leg, and he can't even get touchbacks a mile above sea level? Boom a couple through the end zone and suddenly porous kickoff coverage is much less of a liability.I also thought that Cutler made some phenomenal throws, especially the ones in the middle of traffic and most especially once he got into the red zone, but he also compiled a lot of junk today. The 350/4 looks obscene, but posting less than 7 net ypa (once you factor in the sack) takes a bit of the shine off. A very solid game, and he was at his best when it mattered the most, but definitely not the best game I've seen from him (despite the fact that they're his best raw statistics). Which means he was merely awesome instead of amazing.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Before their bye in week 8, their schedule is as follows:

NO

@KC

TB

Jax

@NE

It is hard to know how well teams will be playing weeks from now, but honestly, if the Broncos get to the bye week with a 5-2 record, I would be more than happy. I could see them losing one of those home games in an upset, and the Patriots game, ya never know. Even though it is a road game, the KC game is one they should definitely win.

Coming into the season, I thought going into the bye at 4-3 would be a good thing, but again, 5-2 would be great, and I would even give them a decent shot at being 6-1. You gotta think that the defense should slowly improve as the season goes on, especially with the confidence the team as a whole is getting because of how dominant the offense is looking.

 

[Manster]

i had a good feeling about drafting Cutler this yr. talk about value! i'm a Cowboys fan, and this guy is fast becoming one of my favorite players in the NFL. he's becoming one of the NFL's elite QB's before our eyes.

i'm not sure how his coaches feel about him lead blocking, but dam! gotta love that from a QB in this day and age.

 

[Ghost Rider]

3-0, baby!

I am a little concerned about how unproductive the offense has been in the second half the last two weeks (55 points in the two first halves, and only 18 points in the two second halves), and the defense still gives me a heart attack, but the last two wins are games the Broncos would have found a way to lose the last few years, and they won them both, so I am taking that as a good sign.

The running game, in the clutch, is a slight concern, too. The overall yards are there, but getting stopped for that safety could very well have cost them today's game, and getting stopped on that 3rd and short allowed NO to get the ball, albeit with almost no time. Those are yards Mike Shanahan teams always almost get.

But they are winning, nonetheless, thus far. There are concerns, though...

 

[moleculo]

color me officially concerned. Yes, we are winning, but we are extremely lucky to be 3-0. To get here, it took a blown call of epic proportion and two missed FG's in a one point game. I'm concerned that last year we won two games to start the year off that we probably shouldn't, and only won five more games the rest of the season - I hope the same doesn't occur the rest of this year - i.e. catastrophic collapse.

I'm concerned about the D. Two games in a row, we allow >350 yards passing - that's with Bailey/Bly on the corners. A supposed strength of this D is again exploited.

I'm concerned that we cannot keep a foot on the opponents neck. Vs both SD and NOR, we were up 21-3 early in the 2nd. Obviously we are playing amazing football in the first quarter and into the second, but then we seem to let up. I don't know what needs to be done about this.

I'm concerned about the pressure (or lack thereof) on the opposing QB. Rivers - 33 attempts, one sack. Brees - 48 attempts - one sack. And again - it's not like not pressuring the QB is buying anything - Rivers completed 64% w/ 11.4 YPA, and Brees complete 81% for 8.7 YPA. This D is giving the opposing QB all day to find the open man, which he inevitably will.

Not all bad though - I was very impressed with the run D - several CRITICAL stops made @ the goal line, and the 3rd down conversion at the end of the game, for example. I was also pleased with the # of touch-backs, and the fact that we did not allow a long KR or PR. That last kick at the end of the game that backed Bush up inside the 20 was amazing, and the punt coverage even better. I gotta admit - I had visions of Dante Hall dancing through my head just before that kick.

Also - the passing O was pretty good too.

 

[Ghost Rider]

color me officially concerned. Yes, we are winning, but we are extremely lucky to be 3-0. To get here, it took a blown call of epic proportion and two missed FG's in a one point game.

True, but it is not like Gramatica missed two chip shots; the misses were from 51 and 43 yards. And besides, had he hit the one at the end, the Broncos would have had plenty of time to go down the field to kick their own FG to try and win the game. Not to mention that the Broncos made plenty of mistakes of their own (the safety, the fumble inside the NO 10 with five minutes left, etc.), so it is not like the Broncos lucked out or that the Saints gave the game away.

I'm concerned about the pressure (or lack thereof) on the opposing QB. Rivers - 33 attempts, one sack. Brees - 48 attempts - one sack. And again - it's not like not pressuring the QB is buying anything - Rivers completed 64% w/ 11.4 YPA, and Brees complete 81% for 8.7 YPA. This D is giving the opposing QB all day to find the open man, which he inevitably will.

Like I have said about 405 times already this year, a pass rush would be nice.

I'm concerned that we cannot keep a foot on the opponents neck. Vs both SD and NOR, we were up 21-3 early in the 2nd. Obviously we are playing amazing football in the first quarter and into the second, but then we seem to let up. I don't know what needs to be done about this.

Seeing that huge leads evaporate is a major concern, yes, and I think it goes back to my earlier point: the running game. The yards are there, but the Broncos need to be able to control the clock with the run when they have a big lead like that. I don't care which RB it is, but one of them needs to be the main back. I hate seeing situational backs on this team. The Broncos running game has always functioned best when one RB is the man.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Losing to a pathetic Chiefs team is just sickening.

 

[Tubalcane]

Ah the dreaded trap game. AAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[moleculo]

I'm concerned about the pressure (or lack thereof) on the opposing QB. Rivers - 33 attempts, one sack. Brees - 48 attempts - one sack. And again - it's not like not pressuring the QB is buying anything - Rivers completed 64% w/ 11.4 YPA, and Brees complete 81% for 8.7 YPA. This D is giving the opposing QB all day to find the open man, which he inevitably will.

Like I have said about 405 times already this year, a pass rush would be nice.

Damon Freaking Huard - 75% completion rate, 5.7 YPA, 1 TD, 0 int, one sack. Terrible.Run D - I don't even want to talk about it.

Cutler - something I've noticed the first couple of games, but hadn't mentioned - dude seems to force the ball way too often. How many times this season has he gunned it into a tiny window, and we are all amazed that he was able to thread the needle. He makes the kind of throws that Plummer wishes he could - in other words, Cutler is making the throws into coverage, whereas Plummer would get picked much more often. That's fine and all, but I think I'd rather see Cutler just throw to the open guy. Yeah, Marshall is pretty good and can catch pretty much anything, but sometimes I'd rather Cutler just toss the ball to Stokley, Scheffler, or Graham 10 yards closer and wide open. Cutler is forcing the ball where he wants to go and he is talented enough to make it happen, but as defenses take note of that, they will be baiting him more often and he will start throwing more pics. KC has shown the way. Just watch what happens this week against the original Tampa 2.

Playcalling - running backs, on average, had 5.2 YPC as a group, yet only 19 carries as a group. More importantly, zero turnovers. Bates called nearly 2x as many passes as runs. I understand that they were trailing most of the game, but this is completely terrible. the run game has got to be developed soon, before this one-trick pony offense is exposed. I'm confident they can develop a running game; I just home that they do. Balance is sorely needed. Oh yeah - I'm not talking about running Marshall or Royal either - put the ball in the hands of Young, Hall, or Pittman - I don't care who.