2009 rookie drafts (1 Viewer)

[Burning Sensation]

Seems this is the time of year people start looking to trade for 2009 rookie picks, especially teams that are 0-5, 1-4. Doesnt seem to be a great year if you are looking for RB's, but the WR class appears to be very good, with top end talent and depth. Still up in the air about the QB's, but LB's and TE's seem to be loaded this year.

Seems Wells is the consensus #1 pick if rookie drafts were held today, but is he that much higher than McCoy, Moreno, Murray or Scott? Also, How does Wells compare to the past three seasons consensus #1 RB's?(AD, Bush, DMac) If you were looking to acquire 1st round picks, which ones seem to have the best value, and how would you tier off the first round.

I know i touched on this in the 2009 thread, but i didnt want to clog it with rookie draft talk.

I watch some college football, but i dont have the expertise as alot of the guys on this board, so just hoping to get some opinions from the big college fans here.

 

[offdee]

There is a clear top tier of 4 guys in my opinion...

1) Wells

2) Moreno

3) McCoy

4) Crabtree

I personally feel that Crabtree is the best of the bunch and all of the RB's are a bit overrated and none of them are in the same tier talent wise as Bush, AD/Lynch and McFadden/Stewart from past years.

After this group of 4 is a dropoff into

- Jeremy Maclin

- DeMarco Murray

- Derrius Heyward-Bey

- Charles Scott

- C.J. Spiller

- James Davis

- Javon Ringer

- Percy Harvin

- Matthew Stafford

I do like Matthew Stafford quite a bit and feel he'll eventually be a solid NFL starter. But like most FF rookie drafts the top QB will slip to the #9-#12 range.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

I'm a big fan of "My boy, McCoy"!!!

There, I said it. You can use it.

 

[moderated]

There is a clear top tier of 4 guys in my opinion...1) Wells2) Moreno3) McCoy4) CrabtreeI personally feel that Crabtree is the best of the bunch and all of the RB's are a bit overrated and none of them are in the same tier talent wise as Bush, AD/Lynch and McFadden/Stewart from past years.After this group of 4 is a dropoff into- Jeremy Maclin- DeMarco Murray- Derrius Heyward-Bey- Charles Scott- C.J. Spiller- James Davis- Javon Ringer- Percy Harvin- Matthew StaffordI do like Matthew Stafford quite a bit and feel he'll eventually be a solid NFL starter. But like most FF rookie drafts the top QB will slip to the #9-#12 range.

Agree with the main tiers. Overall i think this is a really weak class. The top guys are good but as stated there aren't any AD/Bush/Stewart/Lynch/etc type studs.Also in the next grouping there are a lot of mediocre players. Guys like Ringer and James Davis just aren't very good, they will be lucky to ever get a shot to get a lot of carries. Spiller is explosive but doesn't look like a feature RB. The WR's in that grouping are decent but far from locks, Harvin isn't a #1 type and most likely he'll fill the role of a #3 WR. Macklin is a nice upside guy, he's probably the best of that tier.Overall this is a shallow class without any high probability studs at the top, outside of Crabtree. Crabtree is a true stud, but most people like to grab a RB with the top rookie picks and this year it will be a bad mistake since Crabtree is the only true legit superstar of this draft class.

 

[EBF]

The WR depth is better than advertised. Crabtree, DHB, Harvin, and Maclin are all worth a first round NFL draft pick. Some of the 2nd-4th round guys have the potential to become players at the next level. Don't confuse a lack of hype with a lack of talent. Virtually no one was excited about Greg Jennings, Santonio Holmes, and Eddie Royal when they were prospects.

RB is a little weak, but we're still looking at 3-4 first rounders. I agree with the comments about Ringer and Davis. Those guys reek of mediocrity. There's still room for someone to come out of left field and make things interesting. Blount from Oregon and Johnson from USC are two guys with a lot of ability who could make a late run up the boards.

 

[FUBAR]

There is a clear top tier of 4 guys in my opinion...

1) Wells

2) Moreno

3) McCoy

4) Crabtree

I personally feel that Crabtree is the best of the bunch and all of the RB's are a bit overrated and none of them are in the same tier talent wise as Bush, AD/Lynch and McFadden/Stewart from past years.

After this group of 4 is a dropoff into

- Jeremy Maclin

- DeMarco Murray

- Derrius Heyward-Bey

- Charles Scott

- C.J. Spiller

- James Davis

- Javon Ringer

- Percy Harvin

- Matthew Stafford

I do like Matthew Stafford quite a bit and feel he'll eventually be a solid NFL starter. But like most FF rookie drafts the top QB will slip to the #9-#12 range.

Hear me know, believe me later. Maclin is the better prospect in the Big XII. Heyward-Bey might also be better than Crabtree. Dude's got talent, but not as much as Maclin. What's the analysis on Scott? I'm intrigued by what I see, but I haven't seen enough to formulate an opinion. Same for Harvin.

 

[MAC_32]

I'd be strongly considering Crabtree at 1.01 if I had a rookie draft today, kid's the complete package and as eluded to previously there doesn't appear to be a stand out RB in this class.

The QB class looks weak to me, again. Those in dynasty drafts hurting at QB may need to wait until 010 to get their horse, Sam Bradford will be patiently waiting for you.

Lots remain to be sorted out at the other positions, but if I had a struggling team I'd be trying to acquire as many late 1st rounders from contenders looking for that extra something to get them over the top this year as I could. I don't know how the picture's going to look next summer but me thinks there's going to be a lot of value in that area of the draft as Crabtree is the only one that really stands out in my eyes.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I think both Wells and McCoy will grade out as high as Lynch, Stewart, Mendenhall etc. They won't have the hype of AD or Reggie but overall i think this RB class looks no worse than average top to bottom. People have been waiting for Wells, many thinking he'd grade out higher than McFadden if they both declared for the same draft class. The WR class looks like the strongest we've seen in a number of years, its both elite and deep.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

I'll add that Travis Beckum's (TE) stock is probably dropping based on his hamstring injury and terrible QB play. However, he's going to be a solid pass catching tight end at the next level.

 

[beto]

I'll add that Travis Beckum's (TE) stock is probably dropping based on his hamstring injury and terrible QB play. However, he's going to be a solid pass catching tight end at the next level.

As good as Witten?

 

[fruity pebbles]

short scouting profile on Chris Wells

http://www.walterfootball.com/pro2009cwells.php

 

[zamboni]

RB is a little weak, but we're still looking at 3-4 first rounders.

Not following college football much, I'd like to hear some more thoughts on how others see the rookie crop next year. Pretty relevant in considering whether to trade away a high pick next year.I guess we also have to reconcile which teams can be viewed as RB-needy and could conceivably take an RB early. Obviously there are always surprised, but not too many teams at first blush stand out:CincyClevelandDetroit (if Kevin Smith doesn't turn it around)San Diego (project in case LT looks done and not comfortable with Sproles being the guy)

 

[fruity pebbles]

RB is a little weak, but we're still looking at 3-4 first rounders.

Not following college football much, I'd like to hear some more thoughts on how others see the rookie crop next year. Pretty relevant in considering whether to trade away a high pick next year.I guess we also have to reconcile which teams can be viewed as RB-needy and could conceivably take an RB early. Obviously there are always surprised, but not too many teams at first blush stand out:CincyClevelandDetroit (if Kevin Smith doesn't turn it around)San Diego (project in case LT looks done and not comfortable with Sproles being the guy)

Would add the Jets, Cardinals, Broncos, Patriots, Eagles, Seahawks and Bucs.

 

[zamboni]

RB is a little weak, but we're still looking at 3-4 first rounders.

Not following college football much, I'd like to hear some more thoughts on how others see the rookie crop next year. Pretty relevant in considering whether to trade away a high pick next year.I guess we also have to reconcile which teams can be viewed as RB-needy and could conceivably take an RB early. Obviously there are always surprised, but not too many teams at first blush stand out:CincyClevelandDetroit (if Kevin Smith doesn't turn it around)San Diego (project in case LT looks done and not comfortable with Sproles being the guy)

Would add the Jets, Cardinals, Broncos, Patriots, Eagles, Seahawks and Bucs.

Thought about the Jets, but they may get by on Jones and Leon for another year. Cards: may like Hightower - who knowsBroncos: will they ever draft an RB highly?Patriots: may not want to go the early round route given lower-than-expected returns from 1st rounder MaroneyEagles: a definite possibility here; Westbrook and Buck getting older - Booker probably a situational guySeahawks: a wait-and-see to see what Jones does the rest of the wayBucs: see Jones above with respect to Graham; Caddy could also be back

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

I'll add that Travis Beckum's (TE) stock is probably dropping based on his hamstring injury and terrible QB play. However, he's going to be a solid pass catching tight end at the next level.

As good as Witten?

I don't know about that. They're around the same height, but Witten has a good 30 pounds on Beckum.Beckum is effective because he's too fast for linebackers, and he's athletic enough to makes plays matched up against safties. Wisconsin tends to move him all over the field, from TE to wide out. Based on his size, blocking will be the biggest question mark at the next level. But Beckum is certainly a good receiving threat.

 

[FUBAR]

RB is a little weak, but we're still looking at 3-4 first rounders.

Not following college football much, I'd like to hear some more thoughts on how others see the rookie crop next year. Pretty relevant in considering whether to trade away a high pick next year.I guess we also have to reconcile which teams can be viewed as RB-needy and could conceivably take an RB early. Obviously there are always surprised, but not too many teams at first blush stand out:

Cincy

Cleveland

Detroit (if Kevin Smith doesn't turn it around)

San Diego (project in case LT looks done and not comfortable with Sproles being the guy)

Would add the Jets, Cardinals, Broncos, Patriots, Eagles, Seahawks and Bucs.

Thought about the Jets, but they may get by on Jones and Leon for another year. Cards: may like Hightower - who knows

Broncos: will they ever draft an RB highly?

Patriots: may not want to go the early round route given lower-than-expected returns from 1st rounder Maroney

Eagles: a definite possibility here; Westbrook and Buck getting older - Booker probably a situational guy

Seahawks: a wait-and-see to see what Jones does the rest of the way

Bucs: see Jones above with respect to Graham; Caddy could also be back

They have in the past, if you consider 2nd round high. I like Ringer there.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I'll add that Travis Beckum's (TE) stock is probably dropping based on his hamstring injury and terrible QB play. However, he's going to be a solid pass catching tight end at the next level.

As good as Witten?

I don't know about that. They're around the same height, but Witten has a good 30 pounds on Beckum.Beckum is effective because he's too fast for linebackers, and he's athletic enough to makes plays matched up against safties. Wisconsin tends to move him all over the field, from TE to wide out. Based on his size, blocking will be the biggest question mark at the next level. But Beckum is certainly a good receiving threat.

He reminds me of Scheffler

 

[zamboni]

RB is a little weak, but we're still looking at 3-4 first rounders.

Not following college football much, I'd like to hear some more thoughts on how others see the rookie crop next year. Pretty relevant in considering whether to trade away a high pick next year.I guess we also have to reconcile which teams can be viewed as RB-needy and could conceivably take an RB early. Obviously there are always surprised, but not too many teams at first blush stand out:

Cincy

Cleveland

Detroit (if Kevin Smith doesn't turn it around)

San Diego (project in case LT looks done and not comfortable with Sproles being the guy)

Would add the Jets, Cardinals, Broncos, Patriots, Eagles, Seahawks and Bucs.

Thought about the Jets, but they may get by on Jones and Leon for another year. Cards: may like Hightower - who knows

Broncos: will they ever draft an RB highly?

Patriots: may not want to go the early round route given lower-than-expected returns from 1st rounder Maroney

Eagles: a definite possibility here; Westbrook and Buck getting older - Booker probably a situational guy

Seahawks: a wait-and-see to see what Jones does the rest of the way

Bucs: see Jones above with respect to Graham; Caddy could also be back

They have in the past, if you consider 2nd round high. I like Ringer there.

True, they did so with Portis, but they seem to be content with later round guys. Of course, they haven't had much luck since Portis so maybe it's a possibility there.

 

[MAC_32]

I'll add that Travis Beckum's (TE) stock is probably dropping based on his hamstring injury and terrible QB play. However, he's going to be a solid pass catching tight end at the next level.

As good as Witten?

Witten is an outstanding blocker, Beckum will almost certainly never be as good as Witten. Fantasy? I could see him being top 5 for a long time. Certainly a late 1st round rookie pick candidate if he goes to the right place, not sure how high he'll go in the real thing - I'd bet on not as high as Vernon Davis but higher than Greg Olsen + Dustin Keller.

 

[rifkin]

The WR depth is better than advertised. Crabtree, DHB, Harvin, and Maclin are all worth a first round NFL draft pick. Some of the 2nd-4th round guys have the potential to become players at the next level. Don't confuse a lack of hype with a lack of talent. Virtually no one was excited about Greg Jennings, Santonio Holmes, and Eddie Royal when they were prospects.

A guy like Brandon Tate falls into that category. He could end up like DeSean Jackson and go to some team that needs a primary returner and end up getting enough WR targets to be useful.

 

[hufjay]

i dont understand the love affair with reggie bush--yes a great college player but as a pro--i wouldnt call him anything special. hes the #2 pick who cant carry the ball more than 10-15 times a game. hes a good fantasy guy but a decent to good nfl rb. its def not fair to put AP in the same class as bush-- AP is a true running back not a gimmick like bush.

 

[kremenull]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

For the RBs, I don't believe this will be a very good class, pretty decent but not special nor deep. I see Wells as the guy who will separate himself from the pack, at the least by a slim margin but nevertheless he should be the clear #1 in the end. Moreno is OK, looks like an Addai-type of runner at best so situation will be critical, McCoy is a bit over-hyped right now, still lots to prove for me, and Murray is a wildcard as he has the most ability. If he can regain his top form prior to injury (kneecap), and I would bet that he probably will by next year, he just could be the best of the bunch in the end. Also, I don't see a whole lot of jobs available right now and many of these guys will slide down in the NFL draft due to the lower demand at the RB position and the increasing demand at other positions (DBs, playmaking WRs, DL, and OL the primary-need positions)....

QBs are B-O-O-B-O-O....And just stop with the Stafford having the greatest arm in years crap......One word, JaMarcus! He can throw practically the entire length of the field.....80 yds on a rope!

 

[beto]

i dont understand the love affair with reggie bush--yes a great college player but as a pro--i wouldnt call him anything special. hes the #2 pick who cant carry the ball more than 10-15 times a game. hes a good fantasy guy but a decent to good nfl rb. its def not fair to put AP in the same class as bush-- AP is a true running back not a gimmick like bush.

This is because you have the gift of hindsight. Bush is a bit of a pro gimmick now but before he stepped onto an NFL field he carried a sky-high grade on the level of All Day.

 

[MAC_32]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

Call me crazy, but I think Crabtree might be in the same class as Calvin.

 

[kremenull]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

Call me crazy, but I think Crabtree might be in the same class as Calvin.

Yeah, mac, you are crazy......Not even close....you're talking about a guy not only with outstanding hands, but who's 6'5" and a legit 240 lbs that runs a sub 4.4 forty AND is uber-athletic......Crabtree is not in the same precinct.....a better comparison for Crabtree will be Larry Fitzgerald, but as far as grading out as a prospect, Calvin is in rare company......Moss and Calvin, in any order, stand above any other WR prospects in history.....and no one coming down the pike will enter into that realm.....before anyone says Andre Johnson....sorry, see point #1 (not great hands)

 

[jurb26]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

Call me crazy, but I think Crabtree might be in the same class as Calvin.

Yeah, mac, you are crazy......Not even close....you're talking about a guy not only with outstanding hands, but who's 6'5" and a legit 240 lbs that runs a sub 4.4 forty AND is uber-athletic......Crabtree is not in the same precinct.....a better comparison for Crabtree will be Larry Fitzgerald, but as far as grading out as a prospect, Calvin is in rare company......Moss and Calvin, in any order, stand above any other WR prospects in history.....and no one coming down the pike will enter into that realm.....before anyone says Andre Johnson....sorry, see point #1 (not great hands)

I'm pretty sure Fitz graded out better than Calvin.

 

[kremenull]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

Call me crazy, but I think Crabtree might be in the same class as Calvin.

Yeah, mac, you are crazy......Not even close....you're talking about a guy not only with outstanding hands, but who's 6'5" and a legit 240 lbs that runs a sub 4.4 forty AND is uber-athletic......Crabtree is not in the same precinct.....a better comparison for Crabtree will be Larry Fitzgerald, but as far as grading out as a prospect, Calvin is in rare company......Moss and Calvin, in any order, stand above any other WR prospects in history.....and no one coming down the pike will enter into that realm.....before anyone says Andre Johnson....sorry, see point #1 (not great hands)

I'm pretty sure Fitz graded out better than Calvin.

Hmmmmm.....well, let's revisit very quicklySome critical components for a WR.....Hands.....CJ = FitzRoute-running....Fitz >> CJAthleticism.....CJ >> FitzPure Speed...... CJ >>>> FitzSize/Speed Ratio......CJ >>> FitzRAC....... CJ >> FitzFootball IQ.....Fitz > CJCollege Production....Fitz > CJ.....not much of a difference here if I recall, and even if so, I would not place much stock in this category as long as guys are productive enough given their opportunitiesI am basing these on both guys entering the league, which is what the discussion is about.....If you look at things now, then as I also stated before - situation does matter. However, as a pure WR prospect, I don't see how Fitz would grade out higher than Calvin entering the league. Give Calvin Kurt Warner and you'd see dynamite results immediately

 

[jurb26]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

Call me crazy, but I think Crabtree might be in the same class as Calvin.

Yeah, mac, you are crazy......Not even close....you're talking about a guy not only with outstanding hands, but who's 6'5" and a legit 240 lbs that runs a sub 4.4 forty AND is uber-athletic......Crabtree is not in the same precinct.....a better comparison for Crabtree will be Larry Fitzgerald, but as far as grading out as a prospect, Calvin is in rare company......Moss and Calvin, in any order, stand above any other WR prospects in history.....and no one coming down the pike will enter into that realm.....before anyone says Andre Johnson....sorry, see point #1 (not great hands)

I'm pretty sure Fitz graded out better than Calvin.

Hmmmmm.....well, let's revisit very quicklySome critical components for a WR.....Hands.....CJ = FitzRoute-running....Fitz >> CJAthleticism.....CJ >> FitzPure Speed...... CJ >>>> FitzSize/Speed Ratio......CJ >>> FitzRAC....... CJ >> FitzFootball IQ.....Fitz > CJCollege Production....Fitz > CJ.....not much of a difference here if I recall, and even if so, I would not place much stock in this category as long as guys are productive enough given their opportunitiesI am basing these on both guys entering the league, which is what the discussion is about.....If you look at things now, then as I also stated before - situation does matter. However, as a pure WR prospect, I don't see how Fitz would grade out higher than Calvin entering the league. Give Calvin Kurt Warner and you'd see dynamite results immediately

This is your opinion. I recall Fitz receiving perfect grades from scouts who attended some of his games. Perfect grades are basically never given out. The only reason people seem to think CJ is better is because he is bigger and had a better 40 time. CJ looks good on paper, but if you watched film of Fitz vs. CJ in college than it was rather clear who the better WR was. No, their college production wasn't even close. Fitz was one of the most dominant college WRs in recent history. Johnson wasn't anything close to that.Fitz:2002 - 69/1005/122003 - 92/1672/22CJ:2004 - 48/838/72005 - 54/888/62006 - 76/1202/15Fitz had 17 less catches, 250 less yards and 6 more TDs despite playing one less year. Not too mention that Fitz set a record for consecutive games scoring a receiving TD.

 

[kremenull]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

Call me crazy, but I think Crabtree might be in the same class as Calvin.

Yeah, mac, you are crazy......Not even close....you're talking about a guy not only with outstanding hands, but who's 6'5" and a legit 240 lbs that runs a sub 4.4 forty AND is uber-athletic......Crabtree is not in the same precinct.....a better comparison for Crabtree will be Larry Fitzgerald, but as far as grading out as a prospect, Calvin is in rare company......Moss and Calvin, in any order, stand above any other WR prospects in history.....and no one coming down the pike will enter into that realm.....before anyone says Andre Johnson....sorry, see point #1 (not great hands)

I'm pretty sure Fitz graded out better than Calvin.

Hmmmmm.....well, let's revisit very quicklySome critical components for a WR.....Hands.....CJ = FitzRoute-running....Fitz >> CJAthleticism.....CJ >> FitzPure Speed...... CJ >>>> FitzSize/Speed Ratio......CJ >>> FitzRAC....... CJ >> FitzFootball IQ.....Fitz > CJCollege Production....Fitz > CJ.....not much of a difference here if I recall, and even if so, I would not place much stock in this category as long as guys are productive enough given their opportunitiesI am basing these on both guys entering the league, which is what the discussion is about.....If you look at things now, then as I also stated before - situation does matter. However, as a pure WR prospect, I don't see how Fitz would grade out higher than Calvin entering the league. Give Calvin Kurt Warner and you'd see dynamite results immediately

This is your opinion. I recall Fitz receiving perfect grades from scouts who attended some of his games. Perfect grades are basically never given out. The only reason people seem to think CJ is better is because he is bigger and had a better 40 time. CJ looks good on paper, but if you watched film of Fitz vs. CJ in college than it was rather clear who the better WR was. No, their college production wasn't even close. Fitz was one of the most dominant college WRs in recent history. Johnson wasn't anything close to that.Fitz:2002 - 69/1005/122003 - 92/1672/22CJ:2004 - 48/838/72005 - 54/888/62006 - 76/1202/15Fitz had 17 less catches, 250 less yards and 6 more TDs despite playing one less year. Not too mention that Fitz set a record for consecutive games scoring a receiving TD.

Yep....it is my opinion, just as this is yours as college production to me is relative to circumstance.....pure talent is not.....Sure, some guys often peak earlier on due to circumstances......such as being more prepared coming out of H.S. due to better coaching, their home situation (Fitz is from a football family), and other factors.......while some guys peak at different stages, and Calvin's college numbers show just that, an ascension in production which to me is another data point. Combine this with his far superior measurables and when it's all said and done, if I had to place chips on one side or the other as to who would eventually be the better player given similar circumstances, I'd project Calvin to be better.......disagree if you will, but this is how I see it....we both can be right

 

[Orlando RMF]

Wells is a stud. I would like to see him stay healthy the rest of the season to see how he does, but he can break out a long run on any play. He should have tremdous stats he plays the remainder of the season.

 

[Team Legacy]

Players I'm REAL high on this year:

Moreno - Wow.

Wells

.

Crabtree

McCoy >>> "Shady's" the name, not "my boy".

.

.

Harvin >>> love this guy. Talk about bulking up. This guy is a MONSTER.

.

Maclin/Murray

 

[awesomeness]

I believe it's a bit too early to come to any consensus on a top tier of any sort, especially including any of the WRs in it. Why? For starters, there's not much separating the elite WRs in this draft, as all of them are very good (Maclin, Crabtree, DHB, among the best, but there are others probably a rung below but also very good). That being the case, a WR's situation would play a big role in his ranking.....Since Calvin was head and shoulders above the crowd in his draft, it didn't matter to which team he went to, but for this crop the team/situation could tip the scales to favor one over the other.....

Call me crazy, but I think Crabtree might be in the same class as Calvin.

Yeah, mac, you are crazy......Not even close....you're talking about a guy not only with outstanding hands, but who's 6'5" and a legit 240 lbs that runs a sub 4.4 forty AND is uber-athletic......Crabtree is not in the same precinct.....a better comparison for Crabtree will be Larry Fitzgerald, but as far as grading out as a prospect, Calvin is in rare company......Moss and Calvin, in any order, stand above any other WR prospects in history.....and no one coming down the pike will enter into that realm.....before anyone says Andre Johnson....sorry, see point #1 (not great hands)

I'm pretty sure Fitz graded out better than Calvin.

Hmmmmm.....well, let's revisit very quicklySome critical components for a WR.....Hands.....CJ = FitzRoute-running....Fitz >> CJAthleticism.....CJ >> FitzPure Speed...... CJ >>>> FitzSize/Speed Ratio......CJ >>> FitzRAC....... CJ >> FitzFootball IQ.....Fitz > CJCollege Production....Fitz > CJ.....not much of a difference here if I recall, and even if so, I would not place much stock in this category as long as guys are productive enough given their opportunitiesI am basing these on both guys entering the league, which is what the discussion is about.....If you look at things now, then as I also stated before - situation does matter. However, as a pure WR prospect, I don't see how Fitz would grade out higher than Calvin entering the league. Give Calvin Kurt Warner and you'd see dynamite results immediately

When measuring hands i would think it would go more like this:Fitz >>> CJI'm pretty certain that Fitz has the best hands in the NFL, so its not really saying the CJ has bad hands. Plus Fitz's ability to attack the ball at its highest point is unparalleled, imo. I wouldn't say that CJ's hands are really better than AJ's either.

 

[Reaper]

RB is a little weak, but we're still looking at 3-4 first rounders.

Not following college football much, I'd like to hear some more thoughts on how others see the rookie crop next year. Pretty relevant in considering whether to trade away a high pick next year.I guess we also have to reconcile which teams can be viewed as RB-needy and could conceivably take an RB early. Obviously there are always surprised, but not too many teams at first blush stand out:CincyClevelandDetroit (if Kevin Smith doesn't turn it around)San Diego (project in case LT looks done and not comfortable with Sproles being the guy)

J E T S!It's time.... Sucks that this class doesn't look so hot though.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Players I'm REAL high on this year:Moreno - Wow. Wells.CrabtreeMcCoy >>> "Shady's" the name, not "my boy"...Harvin >>> love this guy. Talk about bulking up. This guy is a MONSTER..Maclin/Murray

I know his nickname. But I'm calling him "My Boy" McCoy.I knew Peterson was called "AD" when I first started calling him "ADP".Just what I do. You're welcome.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Isn't Colt McCoy a Junior? Why is nobody talking about him?

Comes from a great program. Seems to have the size (6'3"). Has incredible accuracy. Seems to be very smart. The only thing i'm not sure of is his arm strength (haven't watched enough of him).

What is he missing? Why is he not talked about as one of the top prospects?

I think he should be considered a candidate for the 1st pick in the draft to the Lions...

I forgot to add that he is also very mobile. He is a great runner.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Isn't Colt McCoy a Junior? Why is nobody talking about him? Comes from a great program. Seems to have the size (6'3"). Has incredible accuracy. Seems to be very smart. The only thing i'm not sure of is his arm strength (haven't watched enough of him). What is he missing? Why is he not talked about as one of the top prospects?I think he should be considered a candidate for the 1st pick in the draft to the Lions...I forgot to add that he is also very mobile. He is a great runner.

Didn't he just announce this week that he's staying for his senior year? He could be one of the few...although I must admit that I've rarely heard his name mentioned in glowing NFL draft circles. I'm not a huge draft follower, though.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I think this class is average at best.

Wells & Moreno seem to overrated IMO. Moreno does many things well, but is not a superstar in any one category. Wells can be a beast, but I don't feel he touches the Lynch/AP category.

McCoy I honestly have not seen enough off.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Normally i like to acquire as many picks as i can before rookie drafts. However, i think i will be selling off picks before the draft when they hit peak value. I just dont like this class very much. Although i wouldnt mind getting my hands on Crabtree.

 

[treat88]

I've sold all my rookie picks in the upcoming draft. I'm positioned to pick in the bottom third of a 16 team league and I simply don't see more than 3 or 4 impact players.

Crabtree, Wells, Moreno, and McCoy. That's it in my book.

If Bradford comes out he's the top QB on the board and may fit into the above group.

Dynasty leaguers, not picking in the top5 should use their picks to grab established players rather than bank on this class' depth.

Lots of good OL and DE if your league uses them though.

 

[moderated]

Normally i like to acquire as many picks as i can before rookie drafts. However, i think i will be selling off picks before the draft when they hit peak value. I just dont like this class very much. Although i wouldnt mind getting my hands on Crabtree.

I don't like it much either.Love Crabtree, but he's the only legit superstar in the class. The RB's at the top are ok, but none stand out as locks to be studs. There are also no franchise QB's in this draft.Overall one of the weakest classes we've seen since the 2002 class, except this one has a superstar WR, so this class is a tiny bit better due to that.I'm trying to get solid value for my 09' picks before others realize how bad this class is.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I will add, Percy Harvin if fit into the right situation could be extremely valuable in PPR.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Normally i like to acquire as many picks as i can before rookie drafts. However, i think i will be selling off picks before the draft when they hit peak value. I just dont like this class very much. Although i wouldnt mind getting my hands on Crabtree.

I don't like it much either.Love Crabtree, but he's the only legit superstar in the class. The RB's at the top are ok, but none stand out as locks to be studs. There are also no franchise QB's in this draft.

Overall one of the weakest classes we've seen since the 2002 class, except this one has a superstar WR, so this class is a tiny bit better due to that.

I'm trying to get solid value for my 09' picks before others realize how bad this class is.

I wouldnt do this. It doesnt matter how weak the class is, there will be plenty of hype going around in March and April, and the value of picks will be much higher.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Normally i like to acquire as many picks as i can before rookie drafts. However, i think i will be selling off picks before the draft when they hit peak value. I just dont like this class very much. Although i wouldnt mind getting my hands on Crabtree.

I agree. I sold a later first for Hightower just last week. Have one more that I will probably hang onto for the fun of it.

 

[moderated]

I will add, Percy Harvin if fit into the right situation could be extremely valuable in PPR.

While guys like Harvin/Macklin will be great for NFL teams i don't see their games translating to produce great fantasy numbers.They will be very valuable in the real NFL, but i don't see their ceilings that high for FF purposes.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Normally i like to acquire as many picks as i can before rookie drafts. However, i think i will be selling off picks before the draft when they hit peak value. I just dont like this class very much. Although i wouldnt mind getting my hands on Crabtree.

I agree. I sold a later first for Hightower just last week. Have one more that I will probably hang onto for the fun of it.

This tends to be one of my problems. I love drafting, so i might have a hard time actually trading them away. Fortunetly my dynasty teams are pretty stacked so i can afford to be stupid.

 

[EBF]

I think it's a good class and I think people who sell their picks in PPR will regret it. I agree that the class is a little short on obvious superstar type talents, but it runs about 10 deep with solid prospects and there are a few 2nd-4th round guys who could be gems ala Greg Jennings, DeSean Jackson, and Eddie Royal.

The only thing that sticks out to me is the lack of a clear, bankable RB1 or RB2 in this class. I would gladly trade any of these RBs for someone like Jonathan Stewart or Marshawn Lynch. There are some guys in this group with nice upside, but one who looks like a 100% lock to hit.

 

[broncofan13000]

I think people maybe underestimating the strength of this WR class. And the rb class is not bad at all. Best time to sell picks is near the draft, not now. (IMHO)eta:

I think it's a good class and I think people who sell their picks in PPR will regret it. I agree that the class is a little short on obvious superstar type talents, but it runs about 10 deep with solid prospects and there are a few 2nd-4th round guys who could be gems ala Greg Jennings, DeSean Jackson, and Eddie Royal. The only thing that sticks out to me is the lack of a clear, bankable RB1 or RB2 in this class. I would gladly trade any of these RBs for someone like Jonathan Stewart or Marshawn Lynch. There are some guys in this group with nice upside, but one who looks like a 100% lock to hit.

 

[treat88]

I'm trying to get solid value for my 09' picks before others realize how bad this class is.

I wouldnt do this. It doesnt matter how weak the class is, there will be plenty of hype going around in March and April, and the value of picks will be much higher.

I agree you've got to get value. I don't usually share league info, but am always interested in how picks are valued...so:IDP 16 team $$$ league

My '08 2nd and a 09 1st (along with Chris Henry WR and Jarvis Moss) got me Calvin Johnson.

My 09 2nd and 10 1st and 10 2nd (along with Ernie Sims) got me Dwayne Bowe and 2 3rds

My 09 3rd (along with FWP and MeMo) got me Maurice Jones-Drew.

My acquired 10 3rd (along with Michael Boley) got me Lawrence Timmons

It's a contract league so there are more variables involved, but this may be helpful as a reference as to how picks may be valued this time of year.

 

[moderated]

I think people maybe underestimating the strength of this WR class.

I actually think people are over-rating the WR class quite a bit. There are a bunch of decent WR's in this class, but outside of Crabtree they are all crapshoots.As i said above, macklin/harvin are much better real life football players then they will be fantasy guys. Heyward is over-rated IMO, he has a shot to be good but is far from a lock. There is a grouping of other receivers who are decent but again mostly longshots to make fantasy impacts.In a couple years of course a few of the wr's will pan out, but with none outside of Crabtree a very good bet so good luck picking the few that end up panning out.Add that to having no franchise QB's in the class and no standout RB this class is so similar to the 2002 class it is striking.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I'm trying to get solid value for my 09' picks before others realize how bad this class is.

I wouldnt do this. It doesnt matter how weak the class is, there will be plenty of hype going around in March and April, and the value of picks will be much higher.

I agree you've got to get value. I don't usually share league info, but am always interested in how picks are valued...so:IDP 16 team $$$ league

My '08 2nd and a 09 1st (along with Chris Henry WR and Jarvis Moss) got me Calvin Johnson.

My 09 2nd and 10 1st and 10 2nd (along with Ernie Sims) got me Dwayne Bowe and 2 3rds

My 09 3rd (along with FWP and MeMo) got me Maurice Jones-Drew.

My acquired 10 3rd (along with Michael Boley) got me Lawrence Timmons

It's a contract league so there are more variables involved, but this may be helpful as a reference as to how picks may be valued this time of year.

Something is wrong with your quote, i didnt say the first thing.