What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

Status
Not open for further replies.
jvdesigns2002 said:
Stop it man. You have arguably the best center in the game, the best PF in the game--and easily a top 15pg in the game on one roster--and you are still complaining about a lack of talent? You're telling me that coach pops, spoelstra, doc, Stevens couldn't make that team into a legit top 5 in either conference?  Learn basketball before arguing for the sake of arguing. 
Click to expand...
Perhaps you've missed the increased importance of 2Gs/SFs and PFs/PGs that can shoot from 3 in today's NBA.  They have arguably the worst group of those guys in the NBA today for a team that is supposedly a playoff contender. Granted they are zigging when everyone else is zagging, but they don't have any meaningful way to improve that.  At least Hield was a good catch and shooter.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Even more shocking is that they have Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins but the discussion is somehow about Jrue Holiday.
Click to expand...
I'm actually fascinated by it because I've become a Holiday fan so it's nice to see the stats broken down. Weird thing is Cousins seems to have broken team discipline and whatever near .500 "roll" they were on. Holiday was a big part of that. Since the trade Holiday has gone 6, 18, 6 points. 0-3.

 
Short Corner said:
If they clear waivers doesn't the team that waived them eat the salary/luxury tax implications?  The new team can sign them for the min IIRC.
Click to expand...
I think once they are picked up by a new team (the Cavs in this case), that portion of their original salary (prorated portion of the minimum in this case) comes off the books for the team that waved them. I think the Cavs will be stuck paying the luxury tax on the full portion of two minimum salaries plus the remainder of their salary for this season. I think signing those two is going to cost Gilbert pretty close to ten million bucks.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm actually fascinated by it because I've become a Holiday fan so it's nice to see the stats broken down. Weird thing is Cousins seems to have broken team discipline and whatever near .500 "roll" they were on. Holiday was a big part of that. Since the trade Holiday has gone 6, 18, 6 points. 0-3.
Click to expand...
It takes a while for NBA teams to adjust to big moves that change their style of play.  The most obvious example is that first LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat team starting 9-8, but there's tons of others. If you went over to the Wiz thread in the NBA forum you'd see that I was calling for them to tank and maybe trade John Wall when they started 2-8 under a new coach this season.

It might be too late for the Pellies to snag the 8 seed this year but I bet they'll be a 50+ win team next season.

 
Kev4029 said:
I think once they are picked up by a new team (the Cavs in this case), that portion of their original salary (prorated portion of the minimum in this case) comes off the books for the team that waved them. I think the Cavs will be stuck paying the luxury tax on the full portion of two minimum salaries plus the remainder of their salary for this season. I think signing those two is going to cost Gilbert pretty close to ten million bucks.
Click to expand...
Incorrect...if they clear waivers the salary cap/luxury tax implication to the team signing them is simply the amount they signed for prorated for the remaining of the season (i.e if they sign for the veteran min, it's that amount multiplied by the percentage of the season left to play).  The team waiving is responsible for whole salary minus half the prorated amount above the veterans minimum.

If some team claims off waivers they are then responsible for the full remaining contract and the waiving team is off the hook.   

 
Last edited by a moderator:
the moops said:
Even if we grant you the 14th best thing, isn't 14/30 the very definition of average?
Click to expand...
The PG position in the NBA is riddled with talent.  Being the 14th best PG might not be elite--but if you factor in that he's also been the 53rd best player in the NBA this season----that certainly puts him above the "average" player that people in this thread claim that he is.   

 
Kev4029 said:
I think once they are picked up by a new team (the Cavs in this case), that portion of their original salary (prorated portion of the minimum in this case) comes off the books for the team that waved them. I think the Cavs will be stuck paying the luxury tax on the full portion of two minimum salaries plus the remainder of their salary for this season. I think signing those two is going to cost Gilbert pretty close to ten million bucks.
Click to expand...
good

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Has he been the 9th best player this season?  If he hasn't been--he's certainly been pretty dang close. He's put that Celts team on his back and I'd easily call them a viable contender in the East. 
Click to expand...
He's the worst defender in the league.  472/487 actually but nobody below him averages more than 3 minutes/game.

 
Short Corner said:
He's the worst defender in the league.  472/487 actually but nobody below him averages more than 3 minutes/game.
Click to expand...
He's also one of the smallest players in the NBA.  Larger guards just post up on him and can shoot over him.   That will certainly limit his chances for defensive stats.   I don't want to go on a tangent--but this season--but if you are arguing that IT is not having close to a top 10-15 season this year--I just cannot agree.   The dude would easily be a top 10 MVP candidate this season in my opinion

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jvdesigns2002 said:
The PG position in the NBA is riddled with talent.  Being the 14th best PG might not be elite--but if you factor in that he's also been the 53rd best player in the NBA this season----that certainly puts him above the "average" player that people in this thread claim that he is.   
Click to expand...
Riddled?  I mean the best that can be said for Jrue is he's a definitive starting NBA point guard for a bad team.  Take the standings and every team with a winning record in the West has a better principal ball handler.  If you're happy with mediocrity fine, but you aren't winning titles in today's NBA paying Jrue Holliday 20 million dollars (or whatever he wants this offseason).  Well run organizations understand that.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Short Corner said:
He's the worst defender in the league.  472/487 actually but nobody below him averages more than 3 minutes/game.
Click to expand...
His offense has been stellar.  He is #1 in Offensive Winshares this season and #5 in total winshares and winshares/48. 

I'd say 9 is a little bit high, but depending on the metric you are using, he is certainly in the picture.  Probably more realistically, he is around the #12 spot.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Riddled?  I mean the best that can be said for Jrue is he's a definitive starting NBA point guard for a bad team.  Take the standings and every team with a winning record in the West has a better principal ball handler.  If you're happy with mediocrity fine, but you aren't winning titles in today's NBA paying Jrue Holliday 20 million dollars (or whatever he wants this offseason).  Well run organizations understand that.  
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying and I agree with it.  This Jrue talk did not start with me saying that the Pelicans had a roster that would make them a title contender. It started when I say that Gentry was doing a poor job coaching that team to it's potential.  I said that if you took coach pops, Stevens, doc, Kerr, or spoelstra--they could take this team (and its current roster) and probably coach them to a top 5 seed in either division. My take is that the cumulative talent that the Pelicans have should make them the favorite to grab the 8 seed in west alone--but their coaching has failed them so far.   In this argument--I reiterated a point that Jrue is a top 15 pg in the NBA--and somehow that offended people--yet nobody has been able to mention 15pgs that are definitively better than him this season.   That's the cliff notes version.   I understand that this team is nothing near a title contender the way that it is built currently and I have never attempted to even make that claim.   

 
Long Ball Larry said:
What was this trade again?  Trade machine will not load it.  It seems like it may have gotten it done (though you might have had to throw in a top-30 protected first rounder).
Click to expand...
I think it was something like Noel and Gallinari to Boston, Crowder and filler (Zeller and something else) to Denver, Barton and either Rozier or Jackson to Philly.

 
Looks like the Knicks have officially entered tankapalooza.  First they ship off Jennings and now Noah's done for the season.  I'd expect they shut Porzingis down at some point as well or at least just play him in games they are going to lose anyway.  They need a nice 10 game losing streak now.  

 
Sammy3469 said:
Looks like the Knicks have officially entered tankapalooza.  First they ship off Jennings and now Noah's done for the season.  I'd expect they shut Porzingis down at some point as well or at least just play him in games they are going to lose anyway.  They need a nice 10 game losing streak now.  
Click to expand...
And they actually have a pick this year!

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I understand what you are saying and I agree with it.  This Jrue talk did not start with me saying that the Pelicans had a roster that would make them a title contender. It started when I say that Gentry was doing a poor job coaching that team to it's potential.  I said that if you took coach pops, Stevens, doc, Kerr, or spoelstra--they could take this team (and its current roster) and probably coach them to a top 5 seed in either division. My take is that the cumulative talent that the Pelicans have should make them the favorite to grab the 8 seed in west alone--but their coaching has failed them so far.   In this argument--I reiterated a point that Jrue is a top 15 pg in the NBA--and somehow that offended people--yet nobody has been able to mention 15pgs that are definitively better than him this season.   That's the cliff notes version.   I understand that this team is nothing near a title contender the way that it is built currently and I have never attempted to even make that claim.   
Click to expand...
PGs that are definitely better - not including Harden even though he is their actual PG (11):

Westbrook, Paul, Curry, Lowry, Thomas, Wall, Lillard, Conley, Irving, Bledsoe, Walker

PGs that I would take over him in 2017 but there could be an argument for Holiday (2):

Hill, Dragic

PGs that I think are generally in the same tier as Holiday:

Teague, Schroder, Mills, Beverly, Smart, Rubio

So according to my deep analysis, he is somewhere between the 14th and 20th best PG. IMO, probably closer to 14th than 20th.

 
Kev4029 said:
PGs that are definitely better - not including Harden even though he is their actual PG (11):

Westbrook, Paul, Curry, Lowry, Thomas, Wall, Lillard, Conley, Irving, Bledsoe, Walker

PGs that I would take over him in 2017 but there could be an argument for Holiday (2):

Hill, Dragic

PGs that I think are generally in the same tier as Holiday:

Teague, Schroder, Mills, Beverly, Smart, Rubio

So according to my deep analysis, he is somewhere between the 14th and 20th best PG. IMO, probably closer to 14th than 20th.
Click to expand...
I for the most part agree.  I'd personally easily take Holiday over schroder, Mills, beverly, smart and rubio.   I have him in the 14-15 range--so I am in line with your assessment. I appreciate you taking the time to do this and share your analysis. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
A bit surprising that no team has signed Terrence Jones yet.   A talented player at a minimum contract that cleared waivers.   
Click to expand...
Baffles me that this guy isn't filling up the stat sheet on a bad NBA team.  Or for that matter, on a good team providing a jolt to the bench crew ala Derrick Williams.  Are there known locker room issues with this guy?

 
I got to watch the Spurs for the 1st time this year. When I looked up their record I was amazed that they had the 2nd best record in the league. It didn't feel like I was watching a vintage Spurs team that is a title contender. Am I the only one that could see them lose in the 1st round depending on the match up? I would be shocked if they made it to the conference finals. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
"Aim to return" is better than "hopes to return," I guess?  But certainly not as good as "plans to return" or "should return."
Click to expand...
####ty. At least they improved the rest of their lineup. 

Ainge must be kicking his own ### now. Celts could very well have a cakewalk to the Conference Finals and be a LeBron hammy tweak away from the finals. Oh well keep them assets.

 
the moops said:
Toronto is in big trouble without Lowry. Wonder if they will look to Jennings who just got bought out by Knicks
Click to expand...
Do they have cap space?  If not they're gonna have to wait until he hits waivers.   And once he does that you can be sure the Wiz will throw their mid-level exception at him, so then it becomes a question of who has which mid-level exception available.  I have no idea how that thing works but apparently the Wiz have their "room" exception available.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
####ty. At least they improved the rest of their lineup. 

Ainge must be kicking his own ### now. Celts could very well have a cakewalk to the Conference Finals and be a LeBron hammy tweak away from the finals. Oh well keep them assets.
Click to expand...
I doubt it, he probably feels like they are clearly the 2nd best team in the East now and just have to win a 1st round cake walk and then beat the Raptors assuming they hold onto the 3 spot with a less than 100% healthy Lowry or maybe even no Lowry. So they get to keep all the assets and get to the same point Ainge felt like they were going to be in all along, except with Butler or George they probably push the Cavs to 6 or 7 games, without it probably only goes 5.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Do they have cap space?  If not they're gonna have to wait until he hits waivers.   And once he does that you can be sure the Wiz will throw their mid-level exception at him, so then it becomes a question of who has which mid-level exception available.  I have no idea how that thing works but apparently the Wiz have their "room" exception available.
Click to expand...
He'll clear them on Wed.  He could then sign for the room (or part of it).  They don't have enough space to outright claim him (some others do).

 
msudaisy26 said:
I doubt it, he probably feels like they are clearly the 2nd best team in the East now and just have to win a 1st round cake walk and then beat the Raptors assuming they hold onto the 3 spot with a less than 100% healthy Lowry or maybe even no Lowry. So they get to keep all the assets and get to the same point Ainge felt like they were going to be in all along, except with Butler or George they probably push the Cavs to 6 or 7 games, without it probably only goes 5.
Click to expand...
A month with the dribbletron that is their pg2 starting - worst player in ball - and the Raps will unlearn anything that made em good.

 
Sammy3469 said:
He'll clear them on Wed.  He could then sign for the room (or part of it).  They don't have enough space to outright claim him (some others do).
Click to expand...
Wiz will definitely fork over every dime they can, they have a Jennings-sized hole in the rotation at backup PG/bench scorer plus it obviously helps them to keep him away from Toronto.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Wiz will definitely fork over every dime they can, they have a Jennings-sized hole in the rotation at backup PG/bench scorer plus it obviously helps them to keep him away from Toronto.
Click to expand...
Money doesn't really help since he's still guaranteed 5.1 million from the Knicks.  It's more where he wants to go.  I believe he'd get something like an extra 500K from signing for the max room exception, but don't quote me on that.  

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Yo Mama
NBA 2024 In-Season Tournament Challenge - Yo Mama Said Knock You Out Again!
2
Replies
79
Views
2K
Yo Mama
Yo Mama
kutta
***Official 2025 Footballguy T-Shirt Exchange - OCT 12 SHIPPING DEADLINE (extended 2 weeks)***
2 3 4
Replies
189
Views
4K
Keerock
Keerock
kupcho1
The FBG Top 300 Books of All Time (fiction edition) | #2 The Stand by Stephen King | #1 The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien ... it's a wrap
32 33 34
Replies
2K
Views
112K
kupcho1
kupcho1

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top