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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

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Bobcat10 said:
Right, the 73 win Warriors needed to go get Durant to beat the Cavs.  If that wasn't glaring during the series I'm not sure what people were watching.  The Cavs will now do whatever they can this offseason to beat the Warriors next year.  Or maybe nothing and give it another run with what they have, it's not like this series was as lopsided as many think.  We'd very likely be staring at an epic game 7 if game 3 didn't turn in the last couple minutes.  Props to the Warriors for gritting that game out, turned out to be huge.  It could have even been totally different last night if Durant was called for his 3rd foul when he drilled Lebron in the head early in the 2nd quarter.  Sometimes you just need a few big breaks like that to prevail.
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I think clv makes major changes

 
Dentist said:
Well, the best team won, which is what makes the NBA great.. no other league consistently gets their best team to win a title like the NBA.

Having said that,  I'm not even sure how I feel about a sport whereby the winner is all but certain before the season even starts.   I'm impressed that Cleveland got a game off of them and made another one fairly close.   I'm not entirely sure how this Warriors team lost as many games as it did during the season.. feels like they should've been 80-2.

Even men's tennis seems to have more variance than today's NBA whereby superstars can somehow align together and form these superteams.

I mean I realize he got a ring, but is Durant really that jazzed about said ring?  I mean instead of truly winning it, it felt more like "well, at least I didn't screw it up"

On the other side of the coin it felt like LeBron was playing well enough that sans-Durant he might have knocked that GS team out again.
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Think you're wrong.  From what I saw of Durant last last in the post-game, he was beyond elated. All his interactions with teammates during interviews. Cloud 9.  Yea he was definitely jazzed.

 
Bull Dozier said:
I have to go back and keep score, but are all the same people hating on Durant for joining a "super team" that just lost the finals, the same people speculating and indicating no issue at all with the Cavs adding Paul George, or whoever?  Or is Cleveland adding a superstar OK because they didn't do as good of a job managing their cap so they actually have to give up a piece of some value to fit their new star on their roster?

?
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1.  These are totally different things.  One is hating a player for taking the path of least resistance to a title by piggybacking on a 73 win team, the other is hating a team for improving itself as much as possible within the league's roster construction rules.  I'm not saying one is valid and the other isn't.  I'm saying that you can be OK with one and not the other and still be 100% consistent, despite your suggestion otherwise.

2. I don't really recall anyone in here hating on Durant anyway.  Some people hate what Durant being on the Warriors does to the competitive balance of the league, and I'm probably one of those people, but that's a totally different thing.  I don't like it when it rains, but I don't hate on the clouds for doing their thing.  #### happens, you make the best of it.

 
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need2know said:
I think clv makes major changes
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I think so too.

And one of the next really important things to look out for is what happens with David Griffin.  I forget his name, but I know the org really likes the assistant GM, or whatever title he holds.  So maybe they let Griff go?

 
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Dentist said:
Well, the best team won, which is what makes the NBA great.. no other league consistently gets their best team to win a title like the NBA.

Having said that,  I'm not even sure how I feel about a sport whereby the winner is all but certain before the season even starts.   I'm impressed that Cleveland got a game off of them and made another one fairly close.   I'm not entirely sure how this Warriors team lost as many games as it did during the season.. feels like they should've been 80-2.

Even men's tennis seems to have more variance than today's NBA whereby superstars can somehow align together and form these superteams.

I mean I realize he got a ring, but is Durant really that jazzed about said ring?  I mean instead of truly winning it, it felt more like "well, at least I didn't screw it up"

On the other side of the coin it felt like LeBron was playing well enough that sans-Durant he might have knocked that GS team out again.
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Think about how much rings matter when discussing the all-time greats.  Barkley gets dinged for not having one.  Elgin Baylor.  Karl Malone.  Etc, etc, etc.  Moses doesn't get dinged for joining up with Dr. J and the previous year's finals team.  KG doesn't get dinged for joining up with Pierce and Ray Allen.  Get that ring.  That's what Jerry West told him when he made his pitch.  I'm sure he's ecstatic to have his.

 
Bobcat10 said:
Right, the 73 win Warriors needed to go get Durant to beat the Cavs.  If that wasn't glaring during the series I'm not sure what people were watching.  The Cavs will now do whatever they can this offseason to beat the Warriors next year.  Or maybe nothing and give it another run with what they have, it's not like this series was as lopsided as many think.  We'd very likely be staring at an epic game 7 if game 3 didn't turn in the last couple minutes.  Props to the Warriors for gritting that game out, turned out to be huge.  It could have even been totally different last night if Durant was called for his 3rd foul when he drilled Lebron in the head early in the 2nd quarter.  Sometimes you just need a few big breaks like that to prevail.
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:lmao:  

 
Dentist said:
Well, the best team won, which is what makes the NBA great.. no other league consistently gets their best team to win a title like the NBA.

Having said that,  I'm not even sure how I feel about a sport whereby the winner is all but certain before the season even starts.   I'm impressed that Cleveland got a game off of them and made another one fairly close.   I'm not entirely sure how this Warriors team lost as many games as it did during the season.. feels like they should've been 80-2.

Even men's tennis seems to have more variance than today's NBA whereby superstars can somehow align together and form these superteams.

I mean I realize he got a ring, but is Durant really that jazzed about said ring?  I mean instead of truly winning it, it felt more like "well, at least I didn't screw it up"

On the other side of the coin it felt like LeBron was playing well enough that sans-Durant he might have knocked that GS team out again.
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Yes. He probably is ecstatic swimming in a hot tub of champagne with the NBA trophy.

And on the last point, then I guess it made sense for GS to sign Durant and for him to go there if they probably would have lost otherwise.

 
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Cleveland magically received THREE number one picks in 2011, 13, and 14 and the fanbase is crying about it not being fair.

 
Hats off the the Warriors... As much as I hate them for being in the way of my beloved Cavs... MAN are they a good team.  I can't count the number of times Durant made a play where I would look at my wife and say, "I mean, what are you gonna do there?  That wasn't bad defense, he just can't miss!"  I'm glad that they got a win and made a couple other games interesting.  Durant was a beast and earned every bit of his title.  Maybe we can redo this again next year?  I won't complain if we see 4 years in a row of these guys battling..  But of course I'm a Cleveland guy... I might be singing a different tune if I were a fan in pretty much anywhere but SF and CLE.

 
need2know said:
I just want to thank the NBA and espn/abc for putting up one of the most boring playoff seasons in any sport I have ever seen.  

There were only a handful of games, really just a handful of moments, that were interesting or went against what was predicted.

Can't really blame anybody it's a group effort.  Really sad.  I hope some young teams mature and get good fast.
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Don't worry. Someone will be saying the same thing in about 5 years when the Sixers cut thru the rest of the league.

 
So this Lebron....he's 3-5 in the Finals. I don't know....he prolly shouldn't have won last year....and wasn't there one year that he got a little lucky as well against San Antone?  I don't know......this guy whines a lot for being one of the greatest of all times.

Like Big Carmine said "Bosses don't wear shorts".

 
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Thunderlips said:
So this Lebron....he's 3-5 in the Finals. I don't know....he prolly shouldn't have won last year....and wasn't there one year that he got a little lucky as well against San Antone?  I don't know......this guy whines a lot for being one of the greatest of all times.

Like Big Carmine said "Bosses don't wear shorts".
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:lmao:  So ridiculous 

 
Thunderlips said:
So this Lebron....he's 3-5 in the Finals. I don't know....he prolly shouldn't have won last year....and wasn't there one year that he got a little lucky as well against San Antone?  I don't know......this guy whines a lot for being one of the greatest of all times.

Like Big Carmine said "Bosses don't wear shorts".
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He needs to make the finals at least 3 more times before I take him seriously

 
TobiasFunke said:
1.  These are totally different things.  One is hating a player for taking the path of least resistance to a title by piggybacking on a 73 win team, the other is hating a team for improving itself as much as possible within the league's roster construction rules.  I'm not saying one is valid and the other isn't.  I'm saying that you can be OK with one and not the other and still be 100% consistent, despite your suggestion otherwise.
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I find it difficult to agree with the concept that you can be OK with a monster team bringing in new pieces to make their team even better, yet have a desire or inclination to vilify the players that are brought in.

So, all of the people pulling for Cleveland in these finals simply because they resent the Warriors for being able to add a player of Durants abilities to their already talented team, will completely support, say Paul George for example, being brought to the Cavs, yet will resent Paul George himself for being willing to come join a team that just lost the finals and one year removed from a championship (yes, George would be traded to Cleveland, but as we all know, no trade would be made if George himself wasn't on board).

 
My favorite argument is that Jordan is 6-0 in the  finals, as if that means he never lost a series in the playoffs. It's mind-boggling how seemingly intelligent people gloss over that. 

 
Thunderlips said:
So this Lebron....he's 3-5 in the Finals. I don't know....he prolly shouldn't have won last year....and wasn't there one year that he got a little lucky as well against San Antone?  I don't know......this guy whines a lot for being one of the greatest of all times.

Like Big Carmine said "Bosses don't wear shorts".
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This is scorching

 
Bull Dozier said:
I find it difficult to agree with the concept that you can be OK with a monster team bringing in new pieces to make their team even better, yet have a desire or inclination to vilify the players that are brought in.

So, all of the people pulling for Cleveland in these finals simply because they resent the Warriors for being able to add a player of Durants abilities to their already talented team, will completely support, say Paul George for example, being brought to the Cavs, yet will resent Paul George himself for being willing to come join a team that just lost the finals and one year removed from a championship (yes, George would be traded to Cleveland, but as we all know, no trade would be made if George himself wasn't on board).
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Why?  They're fundamentally different things.  I think it's reasonable to be OK with what the Cavs are doing in your hypothetical example- or for that matter what the Warriors did in the real world- while also thinking less of Durant for the path he chose.

I have no idea what people would think of George in that case, I don't hate players for going wherever they want to go.  But if some people didn't hate George/ the Cavs but hated Durant/ the Warriors that would be defensible, because they were different moves.  George, one of the 15ish best players in the league, would be leaving a .500 team for a team that wouldn't be favored to win the title even after adding him.  Durant, the second or third best player in the league, left a perennial powerhouse for a 73 win team that would have been considered the best in the league coming into this season even if he hadn't joined them. They're totally different situations. Just like LeBron James leaving for Miami was different from both of those situations, and James returning to Cleveland was different from all three. 

 
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TobiasFunke said:
Why?  They're fundamentally different things.  I think it's reasonable to be OK with what the Cavs are doing in your hypothetical example- or for that matter what the Warriors did in the real world- while also thinking less of Durant for the path he chose.

I have no idea what people would think of George in that case, I don't hate players for going wherever they want to go.  But if some people didn't hate George/ the Cavs but hated Durant/ the Warriors that would be defensible, because they were different moves.  George, one of the 15ish best players in the league, would be leaving a .500 team for a team that wouldn't be favored to win the title even after adding him.  Durant, the second or third best player in the league, left a perennial powerhouse for a 73 win team that would have been considered the best in the league coming into this season even if he hadn't joined them. They're totally different situations. Just like LeBron James leaving for Miami was different from both of those situations, and James returning to Cleveland was different from all three. 
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Well, I'm shocked with this turn of events, but just like every one of our exchanges before, I couldn't agree with you less. We will just have to agree to disagree again.

 
I would like to see Harden, Westbrook, LBJ, Kyrie, and George playing in Cleveland.   Not going to happen but it would have been fun to watch the finals.  Just have 2 super teams going at it for awhile.  

 
K - here's my 'what if' question for the afterglow - Al Horford, Andre Drummond, Brad Beal, Nic Batum, Demar Derozan, Hassan Whiteside were the free agents who the Dubs could have signed (Mike Conley would have been an obvious superfluity) for up to $26mil to replace HBarnes last summer. Do they beat the Cavs with all, any, which of the '16-7 crop?

 
Without rehashing any "Jordan v. Lebron" or "Lebron's legacy" discussions, does anyone think that there's a fairly decent chance that Lebron does not win another title?

Obviously we do not know what Cleveland will look like next year but it's hard to see them loading up much more without giving up a fairly significant player like Love. I've heard that a Love for Anthony deal is a possibility. Frankly I do not see how that makes them better.

I don't see them taking out Golden State next season or the following, as currently construed. So if the Cavs run into the Warriors again next season, and with Boston possibly adding some new pieces, the window is starting to close.

It's a storyline worth following at least. 

 
lol how exactly do people think GS won 73 games?  It certainly wasn't from being gifted top draft picks.  People are salty because the GS front office is AMAZING.

This is what Cleveland has had since 2011:

James + 2011 1.1 (Kyrie), 2011 1.4 (Tristan), 2012 1.4 (Waiters), 2013 1.1 (Bennett), 2014 1.1 (Wiggins)

 
wikkidpissah said:
K - here's my 'what if' question for the afterglow - Al Horford, Andre Drummond, Brad Beal, Nic Batum, Demar Derozan, Hassan Whiteside were the free agents who the Dubs could have signed (Mike Conley would have been an obvious superfluity) for up to $26mil to replace HBarnes last summer. Do they beat the Cavs with all, any, which of the '16-7 crop?
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Whiteside would've given them the best shot, iffy on the rest.

 
tjnc09 said:
Warriors last top five draft pick was Mike Dunleavy in 2002.  :cry:
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It is a bit unfair to label them a "super team" when other than adding Durant (I know...I know) they really have done things the right way - drafting well and developing players to fit their system. Curry is a "super star" and Thompson and Green are pretty close if not there but they came together organically. So in reality all they did was sign a top free agent - something every team tries to do each season.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
Without rehashing any "Jordan v. Lebron" or "Lebron's legacy" discussions, does anyone think that there's a fairly decent chance that Lebron does not win another title?

Obviously we do not know what Cleveland will look like next year but it's hard to see them loading up much more without giving up a fairly significant player like Love. I've heard that a Love for Anthony deal is a possibility. Frankly I do not see how that makes them better.

I don't see them taking out Golden State next season or the following, as currently construed. So if the Cavs run into the Warriors again next season, and with Boston possibly adding some new pieces, the window is starting to close.

It's a storyline worth following at least. 
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This is why I think he will bolt after his contract is up next year. Where to is almost unknowable at this point; wherever gives him the best chance to win. The Lakers and Clippers have been brought up, who knows, maybe even Miami again. Supposedly he hates Boston. Wherever it is would have to have pretty tantalizing potential in order for him to leave a great Cleveland team.

I know San Antonio is set up to have a boatload of cap space in '18-'19 so I will guess them.

 
How would the Harden/Westbrook/Durant superteam have fared against GSW or this CLE team?

Was the OKC team a year too late; if the cap had expanded....could they have kept all three?

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Without rehashing any "Jordan v. Lebron" or "Lebron's legacy" discussions, does anyone think that there's a fairly decent chance that Lebron does not win another title?

Obviously we do not know what Cleveland will look like next year but it's hard to see them loading up much more without giving up a fairly significant player like Love. I've heard that a Love for Anthony deal is a possibility. Frankly I do not see how that makes them better.

I don't see them taking out Golden State next season or the following, as currently construed. So if the Cavs run into the Warriors again next season, and with Boston possibly adding some new pieces, the window is starting to close.

It's a storyline worth following at least. 
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Lebron is a beast but I have to figure he has a lot of miles on his body.

In a year or two....If he can accept the idea that he might have to give up being a King and become a Duke, a Prince or a Baron on a team....I don't see why he couldn't win a couple of more.

 
Capella said:
My favorite argument is that Jordan is 6-0 in the  finals, as if that means he never lost a series in the playoffs. It's mind-boggling how seemingly intelligent people gloss over that. 
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That's spectacular.  Right behind it is that "record in Finals games" nonsense, like going 1-4 in the Finals is somehow worse than going 0-0.

 
Thunderlips said:
How would the Harden/Westbrook/Durant superteam have fared against GSW or this CLE team?

Was the OKC team a year too late; if the cap had expanded....could they have kept all three?
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They blew a 3-1 to GSW just last year with only 2 of those players.  Assuming those 3 players were able to coexist as time went on, I think alot of the people complaining about parity issues right now would be thrilled having 4 really really really good/great basketball teams, plus teams like the Celts and other up 'n comers, going into those/these seasons.  The Lebron haters would still be out in full force crushing the East and trying to diminish his accomplishments, but that's a slightly different issue.

 
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