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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

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NBA is disbanding this off-season, right? no point in continuing after that playoff run. it can't ever get better. and Golden State is going to win the next 30 titles because Curry is never going to retire. 

it was a run

 
K - here's my 'what if' question for the afterglow - Al Horford, Andre Drummond, Brad Beal, Nic Batum, Demar Derozan, Hassan Whiteside were the free agents who the Dubs could have signed (Mike Conley would have been an obvious superfluity) for up to $26mil to replace HBarnes last summer. Do they beat the Cavs with all, any, which of the '16-7 crop?
Intriguing exercise.  I think they do with Beal and Batum.  Their games mesh well with the system in GSW due to their outside shooting prowess and ability on on D AND they're enough of an upgrade over Barnes to push them over the top against the Cavs in '16-17.  Derozan?  Man, I don't know.  His game doesn't mesh with GWS at all.  I'm not sure they sign him over just giving Barnes an extension.

The bigs are intriguing.  I think they win with Whiteside.  He doesn't command too many touches on O and would be a monster on D and cleaning the glass in their system.  They would be even better defensively with him on the back-end and Iggy starting.  Slightly different style, but they still prevail.

Drummond and Horford are tough.  Horford looked like a shell of his former self in Boston this year.  I'm thinking no there.  Keeping Barnes is the preferable move.  I don't think Drummond is as good on D as Whiteside.  Also his FT shooting woes would give teams an option to defense them not really available currently.  I lean no there as well.

 
Think you're wrong.  From what I saw of Durant last last in the post-game, he was beyond elated. All his interactions with teammates during interviews. Cloud 9.  Yea he was definitely jazzed.


Maybe he is jazzed.   I guess my point is... "should he really be?"   I mean he simply did what was expected.. and they barely broke a sweat doing it...  16-1 and Durant took multiple games off in the earlier rounds, and the coach took off most of the post-season... probably only returned in the end pumped full of a ton of drugs just to make sure he got credit for the win.

Durant being jazzed he won feels like being super stoked that you dominated your 12 year old son in an arm wrestling contest.

 
Without rehashing any "Jordan v. Lebron" or "Lebron's legacy" discussions, does anyone think that there's a fairly decent chance that Lebron does not win another title?

Obviously we do not know what Cleveland will look like next year but it's hard to see them loading up much more without giving up a fairly significant player like Love. I've heard that a Love for Anthony deal is a possibility. Frankly I do not see how that makes them better.

I don't see them taking out Golden State next season or the following, as currently construed. So if the Cavs run into the Warriors again next season, and with Boston possibly adding some new pieces, the window is starting to close.

It's a storyline worth following at least. 
I've heard Paul George's name brought up a few times, but I don't know how that would be possible.

 
Maybe he is jazzed.   I guess my point is... "should he really be?"   I mean he simply did what was expected.. and they barely broke a sweat doing it...  16-1 and Durant took multiple games off in the earlier rounds, and the coach took off most of the post-season... probably only returned in the end pumped full of a ton of drugs just to make sure he got credit for the win.

Durant being jazzed he won feels like being super stoked that you dominated your 12 year old son in an arm wrestling contest.
Nah.  These are grown men playing against the greatest player of their generation. He has every right to be elated.

 
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Maybe he is jazzed.   I guess my point is... "should he really be?"   I mean he simply did what was expected.. and they barely broke a sweat doing it...  16-1 and Durant took multiple games off in the earlier rounds, and the coach took off most of the post-season... probably only returned in the end pumped full of a ton of drugs just to make sure he got credit for the win.

Durant being jazzed he won feels like being super stoked that you dominated your 12 year old son in an arm wrestling contest.
He should be.  He deserves the ring.  It's not his fault majority of the teams are garbage

 
My favorite argument is that Jordan is 6-0 in the  finals, as if that means he never lost a series in the playoffs. It's mind-boggling how seemingly intelligent people gloss over that. 
Well Montana and Bradshaw are 4-0 and Brady lost 2. ?

 
I actually don't put an asterisk for Durant.

2015 - GS beats Lebron in 6 with no Love or Khyrie

2016 - Cavs beat GS in 7 with Khyrie and Love back in.

2017 - GS needed to add something to get better. Durant also recognized he couldn't beat GS let alone the Cavs. So they both join forces and win in 5.

2018 - What will Cavs add to counter?

 
I actually don't put an asterisk for Durant.

2015 - GS beats Lebron in 6 with no Love or Khyrie

2016 - Cavs beat GS in 7 with Khyrie and Love back in.

2017 - GS needed to add something to get better. Durant also recognized he couldn't beat GS let alone the Cavs. So they both join forces and win in 5.

2018 - What will Cavs add to counter?
:lmao:  so stupid

 
I actually don't put an asterisk for Durant.

2015 - GS beats Lebron in 6 with no Love or Khyrie

2016 - Cavs beat GS in 7 with Khyrie and Love back in.

2017 - GS needed to add something to get better. Durant also recognized he couldn't beat GS let alone the Cavs. So they both join forces and win in 5.

2018 - What will Cavs add to counter?
Something to make the other 28 teams just that less relevant and making the product continually worse.

 
Nah.  These are grown men playing against the greatest player of their generation. He has every right to be elated.
OK,  maybe it was a bad analogy.

Mike Tyson is the finest fighter that I've seen...  so if I'm the #2 fighter in the world am I supposed to be pumped I beat him up even if I ganged up on him with 2 of the other finest fighters of our time?

 
OK,  maybe it was a bad analogy.

Mike Tyson is the finest fighter that I've seen...  so if I'm the #2 fighter in the world am I supposed to be pumped I beat him up even if I ganged up on him with 2 of the other finest fighters of our time?
That's an even worse analogy. 

 
How far out can the Cavs trade draft picks?  Maybe they mortgage the future for the win-now of Lebron's prime for the next couple years.  I'm sure they can add some semi-stars for a few firsts.

 
How far out can the Cavs trade draft picks?  Maybe they mortgage the future for the win-now of Lebron's prime for the next couple years.  I'm sure they can add some semi-stars for a few firsts.
Not looking at the cap, they would be lucky if they could add one. 

 
Not looking at the cap, they would be lucky if they could add one. 
If they were looking to go that route, I'm sure a team or two would be happy to take on some lousy contracts in exchange for receiving a 1st rounder (or two) in a year past James's prime. See: Brooklyn Nets.

 
Not looking at the cap, they would be lucky if they could add one. 
I feel like they need an upgrade for Deron, Jefferson, and a 3rd big and this team would have contended. If they can bring back the rest of their rotation, I think adding those pieces is doable.

Bring back a healthy Bogut, sign Tony Allen and an Aaron Brooks level PG. 

 
How is the product worse? The best teams are winning, the 2 teams in the finals are probably 2 of the best teams all time. 
Well that part is true.  And I am a fan of the best team winning..  that's also true.

I guess I've always felt like one of the things that made sports work was that guys took pride in wanting to beat each other rather than "join up and dominate"  and that salary structures would always keep alpha dogs mostly apart.

But when there is enough money in the sport and the endorsements that guys start taking less money just to play with one another and dominate... well then you start to become college football whereby only a few pre-selected teams can compete.

If I"m a Milwaukee bucks fan I feel like there is literally nothing my team can do to compete for a title until LeBron and the GSW juggernaut quit

 
I'm not sure there is any single player the Cavs could add that would help more than the Warriors tremendous non-injury luck in the playoffs running out would.  Staying healthy is a skill so I'm not bagging on their good fortune.  Just saying Curry straining his quad or Durant breaking his ankle is likely to do more for the competition than adding Kawhi Leonard or Paul George or whomever.  The Warriors have 4 of the league's top 20 players.  When the Celtics and Heat did their thing people were floored by teams assembling three top 20 guys.  Before that, two top 20 guys made you a legit contender.  

 
I'm not sure there is any single player the Cavs could add that would help more than the Warriors tremendous non-injury luck in the playoffs running out would.  Staying healthy is a skill so I'm not bagging on their good fortune.  Just saying Curry straining his quad or Durant breaking his ankle is likely to do more for the competition than adding Kawhi Leonard or Paul George or whomever.  The Warriors have 4 of the league's top 20 players.  When the Celtics and Heat did their thing people were floored by teams assembling three top 20 guys.  Before that, two top 20 guys made you a legit contender.  
You can't be serious. If the Cavs added Leonard without losing anything they would be favored over the warriors.

 
I've heard Paul George's name brought up a few times, but I don't know how that would be possible.
They're saying the Pacers might find 3 yrs of KLove to be worth 1 year of PG. I'm guessin, between this and 'Melo rumors and the James's virtual refusal to feature his very talented white teammate in the finals that the King has a racy idea that 3 star bruthas can do more against the Dubbernaut than 2 & a ofay.

 
I think you bring up some great points and I do like reading and analyzing a lot of your basketball opinions as you get into detail in many of them--but I think you are leaving out a key factor in the situation regarding Harden's defense.   Before Kerr--the Warriors were coached by Mark Jackson--a guy that grew up playing on the streets of New York--and played professionally for defensive minded Pacers and Knicks teams in his career.  After that--Kerr came along--who played on a defensive minded Bulls team--and had guys like Luke Walton as an assistant coach--who was known for being a pesky type defender when he played.  Now--Kerr has Mike Brown as his assistant coach--a very defensively minded coach.  Essentially--while the Warriors have a high potent offense--their focus on defense is vastly under rated.   Harden plays for a coach that essentially puts defense on the back burner.  D'antoni's entire system is about offensive efficiency--to the point that anything that might slow down a game is viewed as being negative.   While he wants his teams to contest shots--he doesn't want them playing physical or tight enough on defense to risk fouling the opposition and slowing down the pace of the game.   Harden plays lots of minutes--and he's personally said that he doesn't believe in resting star players for games.  I think saying that he doesn't play defense unfairly questions his effort and or ability to play defense.   I think Harden puts much of his energy on offense because he is coached to do so--and not because he's incapable of playing defense.  I think this factor is very much being ignored.  
See I'd agree with that if it wasn't for the fact Harden was bad defensively even in OKC under Brooks. The Warriors defense was put in place by Jackson before he left. It helped that Kerr and Walton had defensive systems as well and implemented those as well. I'm just not a fan of having way too many one dimensional players. It really thins out your depth and felaxability for the roster. For example LeBron can be out there guarding everyone from a 1-5 but he's still a great offensive player and can also distribute the ball. Now lets takes the Sixers for example with Ben Simmons compared to James. I'm not high on Simmons at all. I could go into more detail why if you want but for now I'll just go with my point. people Think Simmons is good defensively because of gaudy blocks and steal numbers from college. The fact is he had more chances at those then anyone because teams weren't afraid to go 1v1 with him. Him Guarding Curry or Paul as a PG? If your fantasy team has either guy that game your in luck to stuff the offensive stat sheet. He's not laterally quick enough to keep up with them and he's also slow to the ball. Simmons guarding a 4-5? Watch his last game vs Kentucky. That team had some big NBA bodies at 4-5 who basically dominated the boards on him. He's not strong enough and aggressive enough. Now wheres my point? The fact the Sixers have Jahil Okafor who lets just say makes Kyle Korver Defensively look like an all star. Why is this important. Joel Embiid could be injury prone. Not only that but what if Embiid is in foul trouble early? You really want to pair two terrible players out there in Simmons and Okafor together? Simmons to me also I don't think will score enough offensively in the NBA at this point either but he can distribute the ball. Why am I worried about this? Well it kind of ruins your roster flexibility and creates a weakness on the floor. As a coach you want to pair guys on the floor to their best of their ability and put them in position to succeed. Simmons paired with Okafor doesn't help that cause. It's no different then my bulls when they had Asik and Gibson in his first few yrs who both were great defensively but neither one was consistent offensively starting. That limits the offense and spacing the floor for the inside game. 

 
How far out can the Cavs trade draft picks?  Maybe they mortgage the future for the win-now of Lebron's prime for the next couple years.  I'm sure they can add some semi-stars for a few firsts.
Unless they changed the rules in the latest CBA and/or I'm reading the Internet wrong, the only first rounder they could trade right now is their 2022 pick. It's a tough sell to get any real current asset for a pick that far out, even if another team is convinced the Cavs will be awful again by then. 

 
If they were looking to go that route, I'm sure a team or two would be happy to take on some lousy contracts in exchange for receiving a 1st rounder (or two) in a year past James's prime. See: Brooklyn Nets.
No one is doing what the Nets did, there would be protections on the pick. It also depends what kind of asset the team is giving up.

 
They're saying the Pacers might find 3 yrs of KLove to be worth 1 year of PG. I'm guessin, between this and 'Melo rumors and the James's virtual refusal to feature his very talented white teammate in the finals that the King has a racy idea that 3 star bruthas can do more against the Dubbernaut than 2 & a ofay.
Man you are making some really awful posts today. 

 
I feel like they need an upgrade for Deron, Jefferson, and a 3rd big and this team would have contended. If they can bring back the rest of their rotation, I think adding those pieces is doable.

Bring back a healthy Bogut, sign Tony Allen and an Aaron Brooks level PG. 
I don't think they have the cap room to do that. They already have a Tony Allen type in Shumpert.

 
I'm sure he did more than one today but the 92.3 The Fan interview was pretty good. Is there any reason to believe the NBA doesn't review these games with the refs and GIVE the refs points of emphasis for the next game? Makes a lot of sense to me and they'll slant it however they want. They also named a pro-Cavs crew for tonight, couldn't tell that so far if you didn't know. Pretty evenly called IMO.
I tend to look at Donaghy in the same light as Alex Jones (No I'm not a fan of all his stuff but some makes sense. Look up 9/11 and George Bush and Bin Laden Family defense contract. Jones with a few others made solid points on why 9/11 wasn't stopped before hand. Then look up stories of soldiers who were kept quite after coming back who's commanders covered up war crimes and how the US is protecting Oil field big oil and opium fields in Afghanistan) in someone many people put in this well they are just too crazy do to their ideas. However if you go and reasearch a few of Jones early remarks on 9//11 and stuff (His older work not his current) you'll see it makes sense. Sorry if I'm getting too political for this thread but I think Jones is a good comparison (His early days) to Donaghey and how the world views them now. People point out they are just crazy. 1 they either really don't want to know the truth about whats going on, 2 they can't handle the truth or 3 they are just totally naive. Anyone in their right mind who follows basketball would agree without Donaghy that the 2001 Sac/LAL WCF was a total fix. The NBA wanted Lakers in the finals not the small market Kings. The Kings for most of that series were the flat-out better team. When you commentators are even questioning the fouls being called against Sac and non fouls (Blantant elbow on the Horry game winner on the inbounds pass where Kobe nails Mike Bibby) then you really need to ask questions. I know people who haven't watched basketball since that year. Ended up watching the finals only because our home town team was the Sixers in that series however after the Donaghy problem these same people just shook their head and said they knew it back then. 

Now people will come in today and say well if the leagues fixed why did GS win last night. Well good point just look at the simple fact that besides one game where the Cavs had to have an historic offensive night and won they've been outplayed this entire series and it hasn't been close. The thing with Donaghey people just don't want to believe it's true. There's another story how Mark Cuban had a former FBI agent DO a PI on the Dal/Mia 06 finals as remember a lot of people complained about the amount of Foul Shots Mia specifically Wade got in those finals to Dal. The FBI agent came back with the report and told Cuban he had a solid case to go court and say this series was rigged and win Why didn't Cuban go fourth with this? No one knows and he never really said why but there's some good reasons possible. One he didn't want to rock the ownership boat in the NBA where him and the other owners were bringing in solid cash flow. Another? Maybe he didn't have enough owners to back it up to defend him and our look into it. I mean theres a whole lot of reasons. 

 
They're saying the Pacers might find 3 yrs of KLove to be worth 1 year of PG. I'm guessin, between this and 'Melo rumors and the James's virtual refusal to feature his very talented white teammate in the finals that the King has a racy idea that 3 star bruthas can do more against the Dubbernaut than 2 & a ofay.
They barely made the playoffs with George, take George away and add Love and they might not make the playoffs and even if they do they will never win a round. If they trade George they are better off just selling everything and rebuilding for a couple years and they know that, No reason to take on Love and get less ping pong balls.

 
Id the defender has legal guarding position he can be moving.  An offensive player can initiate as longas he doesn't extend his arm/leg or lower his shoulder to gain an advantage.  

That was a drill we did when I played in college.  
Do you know how many times I count that happening in every game I watch? That  offensive player creating space with extended arm or leg to get an advantage seems to happen almost every so many plays down the court and never called. 

 
They barely made the playoffs with George, take George away and add Love and they might not make the playoffs and even if they do they will never win a round. If they trade George they are better off just selling everything and rebuilding for a couple years and they know that, No reason to take on Love and get less ping pong balls.
Just more of my terrible posting, i guess, even tho that part was just reporting of rumors i heard in national media today

guess i'll wait til next season's thread  :kicksrock:

 
Lol GS gets a point. Refs make a mockery out of replay last 2 games. 
If TT and Smith don't get involved there Cavs would've had the point. Two guys going at it like that well it's a Double T and end of story. In this Case West would've been only one T up but the Cavs players got involved and initiated more contact to the point Refs had no choice but to T up others before they lost control. 

 
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