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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (2 Viewers)

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tommyGunZ said:
Agree with you & Comet about trading Williams, but I sure as hell don't think they should give him away.  
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They're not exactly in a position to dictate terms, and the demand side of the market isn't screaming right now. Plus he's screwing up their tank job.

 
The Kansas Comet said:
I agree, just hoping that some playoff team gets delusions of grandeur and thinks having Williams coming off their bench helps them get further than they really will.  Given the choice between a late first rounder or getting rid of either Mozgov or Deng, I would go with the latter.  But no front office is that stupid.

...except Buss/Kupchak  :angry:
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The Kings could sure use him as a second team ball handler and scorer. I spent a couple minutes on basketball reference and the trade machine trying to justify taking on one of those hideous contracts in return, but just couldn't do it - and I think/hope that the Ken Cantanella-era Kings wouldn't do it either. 

BTW, if Walton can't even justify getting Mozgov off the bench to stand in Cousins's way for a few minutes, they should consider cutting him and stretching contract. 

 
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Sammy3469 said:
Rose for Mudiay.  Who says no?

I thought the Nuggets had more room, so that doesn't work...how about Jennings for Mudiay?
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The Nuggets would decline both. The are looking for an upgrade because Mudiay doesn't shoot well and hasn't figured out defense. Trading him for a nearly decade older player with a bigger contract and no team control beyond this year that has the same problems isn't much of a solution.

 
Kev4029 said:
The Nuggets would decline both. The are looking for an upgrade because Mudiay doesn't shoot well and hasn't figured out defense. Trading him for a nearly decade older player with a bigger contract and no team control beyond this year that has the same problems isn't much of a solution.
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So you're saying there's a chance.

 
thecatch said:
The Kings could sure use him as a second team ball handler and scorer. I spent a couple minutes on basketball reference and the trade machine trying to justify taking on one of those hideous contracts in return, but just couldn't do it - and I think/hope that the Ken Cantanella-era Kings wouldn't do it either. 
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Deng is overpaid but he is playing out of position and it is totally ruining his effectiveness. As a small ball 4 his contract would only be really terrible rather than crippling. The Kings do need a power forward....

 
Kev4029 said:
Deng is overpaid but he is playing out of position and it is totally ruining his effectiveness. As a small ball 4 his contract would only be really terrible rather than crippling. The Kings do need a power forward....
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Maybe, but when I see Deng play he just looks done to me. The explosiveness is gone, his lateral quickness is greatly reduced, he's struggling to hit open shots, etc. Perhaps that's all due to being out of position, but he looks like a back of the bench/retirement candidate to me.

 
Kev4029 said:
Deng is overpaid but he is playing out of position and it is totally ruining his effectiveness. As a small ball 4 his contract would only be really terrible rather than crippling. The Kings do need a power forward....
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I went down that rabbit hole, but he's got to shoot better than 31% from 3 to justify playing as a small ball 4, and I question whether he can even defend that position very well at this point.   Casspi is a better option there when he gets healthy. 

 
thecatch said:
if Walton can't even justify getting Mozgov off the bench to stand in Cousins's way for a few minutes, they should consider cutting him and stretching contract. 
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They're getting more out of Black and Zubac than what Mozgov's been bringing this year. I like seeing Zubac getting more playing time, they need to determine if he has long term utility.

 
Gr00vus said:
Maybe, but when I see Deng play he just looks done to me. The explosiveness is gone, his lateral quickness is greatly reduced, he's struggling to hit open shots, etc. Perhaps that's all due to being out of position, but he looks like a back of the bench/retirement candidate to me.
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Out of curiosity, I got on 82games to see what his positional splits were. They have him playing about 2/3rds of the time at SF and 1/3rd of the time at PF (same as basketball reference). It doesn't look to matter much (SF PER of 11.8, PF PER of 11.5), other than he shoots a little less as a power forward. Last year the difference was substantial, his PER was over 5 points higher as a power forward and his eFG% was nearly .050 higher. Even his FT attempts doubled.

All those minutes in Chicago look to have ruined him at a young age.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
The Nuggets have reportedly made Emmanuel Mudiay (back) available in trade talks.
Mudiay's broken jumper severely limits his upside, and it's tough to have such an ineffective shooter as a starter in today's NBA. While Mudiay may be available, there doesn't appear to be much interest in him around the league. As for today's game against the Timberwolves, Mudiay is listed as questionable, but it seems unlikely that he'll take the court. Stay tuned.

 
 
Source: ESPN
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does this mean NBA teams will stop drafting guys who are just athletes with upside in place of slightly lesser athletes who can actually play basketball?

not bloody likely

 
wikkidpissah said:
His D has improved as much as his O (knocked Dirk off his shot twice on switches Monday). There's just only so much a 5' 7" guy can do. Celts can win with him - he's amazing - just not without another go-to.
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Agreed about Thomas...right now he is not a good offensive player...he is an elite offensive player...his ability to score from anywhere on the floor has been real impressive (and he has balls of steel)...he was good last year but is playing at another level this year and I think most Celtic fans are surprised by how much better he is...and that is without another legit go-to scorer on the roster...now I do agree that Isiah has his deficiencies but if/when the C's make their move it will hopefully clean some of that up and not expose him as much...I love the direction this franchise is heading...they have a real chance to turn into a steady Championship contender...that being said I like the fact Ainge is not forcing things...he is not making a move for the short-term even though they have more than enough assets to do so...just stay the course and when a player he really wants becomes available they will be ready to pounce... 

 
Gr00vus said:
Maybe, but when I see Deng play he just looks done to me. The explosiveness is gone, his lateral quickness is greatly reduced, he's struggling to hit open shots, etc. Perhaps that's all due to being out of position, but he looks like a back of the bench/retirement candidate to me.
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I wholeheartedly agree with this.  He has no lift on his jump shot.  When he shoots a three, I am genuinely surprised when it isn't short.  Even when he has an open dunk, it looks as if he's struggling to get it over the rim.  Good guy, but it really looks as if age (and perhaps the wear and tear of 10 years under Thibs) has caught up to him.  No surprise, considering it's his 13th season, but it again illustrates how massively the front office screwed up free agency last summer. 

 
The Kansas Comet said:
how massively the front office screwed up free agency last summer. 
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The Mozgov deal wasn't horrific, bad, but not horrific. $15M a year for 3 years of a 7+ foot slab, not the end of the world. But when the Deng deal started getting mentioned, I really thought people were joking. Putting that deal together should have been an obvious job ender for whoever did it. Gotta believe that was Jimmy and Kupchak had to toe the line on it, otherwise I'd have expected Kupchack to be out on his ### soon after. I'm really curious to see how this thing with Magic goes down. I have to hope it's the sisterly way of beginning the "fire" Jimmy process. 

 
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I am watching the first half of the magic game and hezonja is actually playing. I swear to god on 8 straight offensive plays he has gone to the same corner and stood in the same spot and didn't move once. It's amazing. There's no offensive plays. Just guys standing around. It's amazing. 

 
Boston said:
Agreed about Thomas...right now he is not a good offensive player...he is an elite offensive player...his ability to score from anywhere on the floor has been real impressive (and he has balls of steel)...he was good last year but is playing at another level this year and I think most Celtic fans are surprised by how much better he is...and that is without another legit go-to scorer on the roster...now I do agree that Isiah has his deficiencies but if/when the C's make their move it will hopefully clean some of that up and not expose him as much...I love the direction this franchise is heading...they have a real chance to turn into a steady Championship contender...that being said I like the fact Ainge is not forcing things...he is not making a move for the short-term even though they have more than enough assets to do so...just stay the course and when a player he really wants becomes available they will be ready to pounce... 
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you guys better hurry up, Sixers will be dominating in 2 years or so. 

that was a bit of a joke, but in all seriousness, it seems that the Sixers and Celtics are 2 of the teams in the best position for the next 5-7 years. we obviously know things can change, but both franchises have set themselves up to be top teams and have a future in front of them. Could be a lot of fun, and as a Sixers fan, I just really hope the Colangelos don't screw all of it up for the Sixers. I did listen to a Celtics podcast a few weeks ago where they discussed which teams are really in position to be in the best shape in the future. The top 2 among the 3 guys were the Celtics and Sixers, with T-Wolves and Bucks a little farther behind. 

I think there are a few interesting teams out there, like the Jazz seem to be sneaky good if they can adjust some things (i think biggest argument against them is that they have some big contracts they will need to sign soon, and they are not a particular franchise free agents will gravitate too)

 
Capella said:
Can I switch teams? Why am I saddled with this awful franchise? Can I root for somebody else?
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Sixers bandwagon has opened some spots up with Embiid out for a few weeks and the fiasco that the front office has become the last few weeks. I'm glad they got Okafor to the game tonight, but they are just making that situation much more of a mess. I get the dilemna they are in, but it is obvious that no team is going to give them fair value for Okafor. In my opinion, what ever team gets him will likely get real good value seeing how he seems to be going for pretty cheap and in my opinion, he will be a valuable player if put in the right system and position

 
Capella said:
Can I switch teams? Why am I saddled with this awful franchise? Can I root for somebody else?
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It's probably too late for me, but I'm wrestling with whether I have an ethical duty to raise my kids as fans of a competent franchise. If there's going to be a Curry/Durant dynasty I may need to raise them as Warriors fans or something. 

 
modogg said:
you guys better hurry up, Sixers will be dominating in 2 years or so. 

that was a bit of a joke, but in all seriousness, it seems that the Sixers and Celtics are 2 of the teams in the best position for the next 5-7 years. we obviously know things can change, but both franchises have set themselves up to be top teams and have a future in front of them. Could be a lot of fun, and as a Sixers fan, I just really hope the Colangelos don't screw all of it up for the Sixers. I did listen to a Celtics podcast a few weeks ago where they discussed which teams are really in position to be in the best shape in the future. The top 2 among the 3 guys were the Celtics and Sixers, with T-Wolves and Bucks a little farther behind. 

I think there are a few interesting teams out there, like the Jazz seem to be sneaky good if they can adjust some things (i think biggest argument against them is that they have some big contracts they will need to sign soon, and they are not a particular franchise free agents will gravitate too)
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Not sure how old you are but the Sixers/Celts of the early 80's were some of the most hard-fought hoops I have ever seen...there was some serious dislike between the teams and both squads were loaded...because it wasn't the finals it often gets overlooked but their Conference finals series in 81 was an all-time great series...it would be great to see those two teams good at the same time again...the C's are further along but the Sixers look like they have a chance to be legit if Embid can stay healthy...

Funny you mention that about the Jazz...Haywood (who played for Stevens in college) is a guy I would not mind seeing in green next season...it will interesting to see if he stays in Utah or moves on...

 
I was always iffy on him but I am really getting onboard with Marcus Smart...he had 21 points, 5 rebs, 5 asst, 8 steals and 1 block tonight... his upside maybe much higher than I thought it would be...defensively the kid is a force...he is so physically strong and relentless and has a great feel for that end of the floor...offensively his whole game has really improved...his ball-handling is very solid and his outside shot has vastly improved...there was a time where I was OK with including him in a deal but right now you'd really have to be getting something big back to include him... 

I like the vibe the Sixers are giving...you can tell they are heading in the right direction...

 
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wikkidpissah said:
His D has improved as much as his O (knocked Dirk off his shot twice on switches Monday). There's just only so much a 5' 7" guy can do. Celts can win with him - he's amazing - just not without another go-to.
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As spectacular as Thomas has been on offense in 4th quarters, his defense has been just as bad.  With that said, the Celtics are within striking distance of that #1 seed, the Cavs has depth issues right now, and the Celtics remajning schedule looks good.

 
Kev4029 said:
Deng is overpaid but he is playing out of position and it is totally ruining his effectiveness. As a small ball 4 his contract would only be really terrible rather than crippling. The Kings do need a power forward....
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If the Kings trade for a big they are even more idiotic than many already believe.  Especially a player like Deng that has a bad contract and (to be kind) looks sluggish.  More interested to see if Sacramento trades an injured Rudy Gay to a team that wants to sign him this offseason.  Seems like a nice way to add an asset if they're not interested in signing him long-term for what it will take.

 
Boston said:
I was always iffy on him but I am really getting onboard with Marcus Smart...he had 21 points, 5 rebs, 5 asst, 8 steals and 1 block tonight... his upside maybe much higher than I thought it would be...defensively the kid is a force...he is so physically strong and relentless and has a great feel for that end of the floor...offensively his whole game has really improved...his ball-handling is very solid and his outside shot has vastly improved...there was a time where I was OK with including him in a deal but right now you'd really have to be getting something big back to include him... 

I like the vibe the Sixers are giving...you can tell they are heading in the right direction...
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those steals at the end of the game were killer. Sixers were hanging pretty goo, but Covington going out with a concussion pretty much sealed the fate of the team. The garbage on this Sixers team seems to be the worst bench/end of the bench in the league, hands down. 

 
modogg said:
those steals at the end of the game were killer. Sixers were hanging pretty goo, but Covington going out with a concussion pretty much sealed the fate of the team. The garbage on this Sixers team seems to be the worst bench/end of the bench in the league, hands down. 
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Saric looks like he can play...now that the Sixers are heading in the right direction they will be able to bring in some veterans next year that can tighten up the bench...

 
Melo getting Kevin Love's All-Star spot isn't surprising, but with the Heat's record of late I thought Hassan Whiteside deserved it (plus the East could use a big, not that roster construction should be a huge issue here).

Even in a game like tonight where Anthony puts up 19 points in the 1st, seeing him stand around on both sides of the court is hysterical.  As is watching the Knicks slowly cough up their huge lead partially because their All-Star player does nothing on defense and only hustles on offense in order to get the rock.  Which is a main reason why New York hasn't won back-to-back games since before Christmas.

 
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Boston said:
Saric looks like he can play...now that the Sixers are heading in the right direction they will be able to bring in some veterans next year that can tighten up the bench...
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Agreed that Saric looks like a legit rotational player, but if he hopes to be more than that he absolutely has to show improvement.  He seems to force a poor shot, then passes on a good one...which is why he's at 46 eFG%.  Also, he has more turnovers than assists.  With Ben Simmons likely to handle the ball and Embiid demanding touches, Saric better improve his shot and improve that ast/to ratio if he wants to approach 30 minutes a game.

 
trader jake said:
Agreed that Saric looks like a legit rotational player, but if he hopes to be more than that he absolutely has to show improvement.  He seems to force a poor shot, then passes on a good one...which is why he's at 46 eFG%.  Also, he has more turnovers than assists.  With Ben Simmons likely to handle the ball and Embiid demanding touches, Saric better improve his shot and improve that ast/to ratio if he wants to approach 30 minutes a game.
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he has made significant improvements over the last 3-4 weeks. What the Sixers need to do is trade Ilyasova for anything, and let Saric start some of the games the rest of the season. 

A few weeks ago when Saric wasn't doing so great they were saying he was wiped out from his play last year in Europe and the jump into the NBA. After that, he started doing much better. He said it was because he stopped taking naps before the games, would be pretty sweet if that is all it was

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Is Brad Stevens the 2nd best coach in the league? He has to be close.
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Only things keeping him from that spot are longevity and getting the best out of an elite player in the biggest playoff games.  Can't be the best (or 2nd best) coach in the NBA until you've proven you can push that superstar to max out the team's upside.

 
The Heat is on a 14-2 streak, including wins against GS, Atlanta and twice against the Rockets. They had 27 assists tonight - that was uncommon during the Wade and Lebron years.

Their win streak coincided with Winslow and Richardson being out due to injury, and Waiters and James Johnson playing better than ever. If they keep it up, they'll make the playoffs and miss a chance a a top draft pick. It will be hard to trade Dragic, unless they start losing again. 

 
Not a horrid first game for Nurk in Portland.  I thought he looked pretty good out there.  He certainly looked better than Leonard--and I thought he looked better than Davis.  He mainly played with the second unit from what I saw--so I'd be curious to see if he could maintain some of the same efficiency playing with the starting unit more minutes.  He certainly gives them a presence in the low post that they didn't have before.  

 
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