Gr00vus
Footballguy
Ingram looks totally lost out there right now. They all do. It looks like they're playing pick up ball.
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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Capella
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Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...they look awful...it's as if they don't have a Coach...they are not even trying on defense...I am so unimpressed with Russell's game...zero intensity...he looks like a high school kid who acts like a star on a team without any wins...Young's shot selection is comical (Walton should be embarrassed for allowing it) and Ingram is not ready to play in the NBA...Jaylen Brown looks like a three year veteran compared to him...this is the second game they played against the C's and they were both big time duds...
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Kev4029
Footballguy
I've talked about that a bit in here. There are probably 6-8 power forwards in the NBA that would be a great fit next to Jokic. Ibaka and Millsap are two of them and they are both free agents, but both are old (I think Ibaka is older than stated) and will require a big contract. Draymond Green is going to wear out his welcome sooner or later if they don't win the title this year. If that is the case, they could offer an interesting package for him including some vets (Chandler/Barton/Arthur, and guys on rookie deals - Beasley/Mudiay/Hernangomez, and what should probably be the 15th pick in the draft). The rest of the guys that would fit (Durant, Porzingas, Davis, KAT) have a zero chance of ending up Nuggets.rascal said:
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Remember when a player got a "sit" for doing something powerfully stoopid? Well, there were 20some automatic sits in what little i could stand to watch of that Celts/Lakers game. You & Groov are right - Russell's unconscionable chuks were simply not the acts of a baller who has a coach to answer to.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I'm looking at some scouting reports for the 2017 draft. I watch very little college basketball before the tournament, so I haven't seen much of any of these guys. Outside of the injury that OG Anunoby had, why isn't he rated a little higher? He seems like a great 3-D prospect with a floor of somebody like Andre Roberson (if he never learns to really shoot, a strong possibility), and a ceiling a littler higher than somebody like Jae Crowder (I wanted to say a ceiling of Leonard based on their college profiles, but I don't think it's a realistic NBA comparison). Do people just think he lacks the ball skills to be a full time 3 and the size and rebounding to be a full time 4?
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Funnily enough, just after this was posted (when all of the prior reporting did point to an extension), it came out that he will not sign an extension and believes he can get a max offer. Seems like the max value of the extension would be have been $88 million. I'm glad he will be available, but unfortunately if that is the price, I don't see it making sense for the Sixers.
http://purpleandblues.com/2017/03/01/utah-jazz-free-agency-george-hill-seeking-max/
the moops
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Few years from now, there's gonna be a LOT of teams suffering from the Oprahizing (YOU get the max and YOU get the max) that has gone on and will go on this offseason since the cap esploded last yr.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
sports_fan
Footballguy
Their only problem is that their players and coaches are terrible. They also have some horrendous contracts. If they can fix that they should be okay.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I'm not saying that the Nuggets are going to snag him for Beasley, Chandler and a first.
It is pretty obvious that Green is a distraction and a bit of a problem for the Warriors. As long as they are winning they'll put up with it, but if they lose again this year and his antics have any role in that, I think it is a fair to good possibility they'll listen to offers.
On top of that, Curry (who I bet takes a 2+1 contract so he can get a fat raise in two years) and Durant are both free agents who should get a combined $62 million or something. Their core 4 guys are going to cost nearly $100 million next season and their salaries are going to rise much faster than the cap, and beyond that they don't have a lot of depth under contract (McCaw, Jones, Looney). I'm sure they'll be able to re-sign a couple of the vets on "bargain" deals but they are all getting pretty old and will have a limited shelf life.
If they are tired of Green and want to infuse some younger talent into the team, I think looking to trade him to somebody like Denver or Boston is a very real possibility this offseason.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Well, the idea of what I was saying was right. They were looking to give him a three year extension and give him a gob of extra money this year. Good for him if he thinks he can get $130 million, I guess. I would be very hesitant to pay him anything near that if I were a team. Having a career year (2015 and 2017 are complete outliers on the rest of his career) at 30 is a pretty rare thing, so I'm not confident this is going to be his level of play going forward.
sports_fan
Footballguy
The Wolves should have had the Spurs last night. They played a solid 3 quarters. Not sure why late in games they decide the best approach is to just ISO Wiggins while everyone else stands around. Yesterday he was going up against Kawhi which unsuprisingly didn't work out too well.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Lakers spent $136M last offseason on Deng 4/$72M and Mozgov 4/$64M. Mozgov is healthy and has played once in the last month. Deng is healthy but now not only getting DNPs, but is inactive.
I thought the Pistons blowing their collective wad at Ben Gordon and Chuck Villanuava a decade ago was perhaps the worst squandering of cap room in modern NBA history. The Lakers summer of 2016 blows that away.
A stain on Mitch's legacy, for sure.
I thought the Pistons blowing their collective wad at Ben Gordon and Chuck Villanuava a decade ago was perhaps the worst squandering of cap room in modern NBA history. The Lakers summer of 2016 blows that away.
A stain on Mitch's legacy, for sure.
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Kev4029
Footballguy
It wouldn't have been terrible if they were short deals but the four year deals are really going to #### them.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Don't forget about that Kobe contract either. They've been handing out #### deals for years!
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It wasn't a great deal in terms of competitiveness, but it kept people in the stands, drew fans in other cities, and sold tons of merchandise. They're playing to empty halls now that he's gone. The Nash deal and these latest 2 contracts are real crushers if they don't keep their 1st round pick this year.
Kev4029
Footballguy
From a basketball standpoint that contract was terrible, but we shouldn't pretend that was given for basketball reasons. They made hundreds of millions off his goodbye tour and got a couple nice draft picks because of Kobe's awful, selfish play.
Buddy of mine was just bltching about this yesterday afternoon, prior to last nights game. I couldn't agree more with both of you. That approach is both maddening and poor strategy, especially since (1) Wiggins isn't their best player and (2) is a poor decision maker on offense when it comes to anything other than shooting the ball. Ugh. This should be a playoff team, even without Lavine, and I just don't see them getting there this season.
FTR, I'm also about 1/4th as bullish on Thibs as I was before the season started.
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Yeah I know. There are only so many opportunities to take shots at Kobe nowadays that I gotta get them while I can.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
As long as they have a championship window, they aren't going to trade Green and Green is a big a piece to the championship window as Curry is.
Green does for defense what Curry does for the offense. The Warriors owners aren't cheap: they buy draft picks, signed and cut Calderon, and have said numerous times they will pay the money to keep a winning team together.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I totally agree. First of all--I don't see the Warriors trading Green. Secondly--if somehow Green really ticked off the Warriors to the point where they wanted to trade him--they would get faaaaaaar better offers for him than any offers that the Nuggets (that wouldn't include Jokic) could offer. The Warriors are fully aware of the talent that they have and the value of their players. I don't see them letting Green go for anything short of a kings ransom. The Celts probably have a better shot of landing Green than the Nuggets do should the Warriors ever want to move him.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Really don't think they're trading Green.
The no video/music/t-shirt cannons thing at MSG today for the 1H was awesome.
The no video/music/t-shirt cannons thing at MSG today for the 1H was awesome.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
As much as Westbrook might get some blame for KD skipping town, this has to be the much larger factor. OKC had their shot at something very special, and they demonstrated that weren't willing to spend when the going is good. A superstar trying to become an all-time legend simply can't stay with a franchise like that.
sports_fan
Footballguy
The Heat are probably playing better than anyone right now. Looking like they could do some damage in the playoffs
On a 19-4 run with wins against GS, Atl(x2), Hou (x2) and the Cavs (x2), although Lebron and Irving sat out one of the games.
They were undermanned tonight without the Johnsons (Tyler and James) who are 2nd and 3rd in scoring among non-starters. Its the Golden State formula with Dragic, Waiters and Ellington and good defense. Maybe Spo deserves some credit. Last year, I heard assistant Chris Quinn was making an impact.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Rockets and Spurs will be a fun one if they meet Round 2.
. cost me some good cash with that collapse, jerks
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Hill for Leonard may go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history.rodg12 said:
Kev4029
Footballguy
The average pick in that mid-teens range gets somewhere between 15 and 30 win shares in their career. George Hill had 33 WS in his short time in Indiana (Leonard is at 53, FWIW).
Their trade of the 15th pick for Hill was probably a good trade, it just so happened to be that the 15th pick ended up being a future hall of famer. The teams that really botched that are the Suns and Rockets who took the Morris brother in back to back picks directly ahead of Leonard.
rodg12
Footballguy
The question becomes...would Kawhi have become KAWHI if he's draft by the Suns or Rockets?
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
He might have been 100% KAWHI, but it was clear his rookie year that he was going to be better than anticipated. I think he would still be close to what we see now.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I don't think he thrives as well under any coach other than Pop. Dude was one of the shiest superstars ever and may have never come out of his shell in a different environment. They have had to poke and prod him along to take control.
mr. furley
Footballguy
i really need to have a better notebook.. wasn't Leonard considered a bust in his first season'ish?
saintfool
Dead sexy
not by Spurs fans. they were deep at the position with Richard Jefferson, Stephen Jackson and others. He wasn't asked to do much scoring.
Kev4029
Footballguy
He was an all-rookie first teamer and probably the second best rookie behind Kyrie. He started the majority of the season for a team that was 50-16. He was anything but a bust in his first season.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
The thing with Kawhi is no one (except the Spurs?) expected his all-around scoring prowess. Many thought he'd max out as Shawn Marion and not into a Top 5 NBA player.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
Not even the Spurs predicted anything like this or they would have been much more aggressive trading for him. They saw him as a premier defensive prospect with a work ethic that would fit well with their team. If anybody thought he was going to turn into Shawn Marion, he would have been the second best prospect in the draft and certainly would have been a lottery pick.
NBA draft.net's draft grades for 2011 list Marion and Gerald Wallace as "optimistic" projections for Leonard. I know a lot of internet pundits though Kawhi should be drafted much earlier, like mid-lottery. IIRC he was the consensus pick on the Kings' fan blogs at the time, who were picking 7. Obviously no one knew he'd be a star but it's not like he was totally under the radar either.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Agreed, it was a surprise when he starting falling out of the lottery, and that is why the Spurs even had the opportunity to trade for him. Looking at 2011 mock drafts (excluding anything by ESPN who are known to fudge things after the fact) that are still available, he looked to be mostly thought of as a mid-late lottery pick.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Draftexpress had him as the #1SF prospect and really only dinged him for his shot and ability to create his own shot (both off the dribble and in ISO situations).
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think the Morris brothers were more PFs at the time, Thompson was/is a SG, Derrick Williams was a PF, so who was he competing with at SF? Chris Singleton and Justin Hamilton?
And dinging a hopeful perimeter player for both his shot and his ability to create his own shot is basically saying that he's not an offensive threat. Somewhere in his draft analysis on Draftexpress it talks about him being below the 50th percentile in every offensive play type. He was not highly regarded offensively. And that is a total credit to Leonard that he could go from a non-shooter that couldn't do hardly anything offensively to being one of the best offensive wings in the NBA.
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