2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (3 Viewers)

[tjnc09]

By the way, Pomeroy is missing several things that could vastly improve his site.  The fact that you brought up his name tells me all I need to know.  

 

[Gr00vus]

 You have absolutely no concept about the actual game of basketball.  That is the ONLY reason I ever respond to things you say.

This thread is even worse than it usually is during the finals. See you guys for the draft.

 

[Zigg]

This thread is even worse than it usually is during the finals. See you guys for the draft.

It's horrific during the finals, but the hot takes are sensational.  

 

[Short Corner]

Is this the play you're talking about?  I would definitely listen to an "intent to injure" argument.  Not as aggressive or blatant and Pachulia's closeout that ended Kawhi Leonard's postseason, but there sure seems to be an extra leg motion not involved in contesting a shot.

Actually justthe opposite.

 

[Weebs210]

In the last series there was a play where it look like he had a hard time getting enough left to dunk the ball. Like you I still think is the best player in the league but I see what you're talking about. 

Especially on the play one on one VS Curry. Lebron tried to use his muscle against Curry and it looked like Lebron was on rollerskates.

The play Curry double dribbled on?

 

[wilked]

Actually justthe opposite.

Just to help in judging your analysis - highest level of basketball ever played, and were you a starter or bench player?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Is this the play you're talking about?  I would definitely listen to an "intent to injure" argument.  Not as aggressive or blatant and Pachulia's closeout that ended Kawhi Leonard's postseason, but there sure seems to be an extra leg motion not involved in contesting a shot.

Wow.  I missed that play.  Far worse than what Pachulia did.  Smith sticks his leg way out while leaping.  Pachulia is a clumsy buffoon who looked like he couldn't stop very quickly.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Wow.  I missed that play.  Far worse than what Pachulia did.  Smith sticks his leg way out while leaping.  Pachulia is a clumsy buffoon who looked like he couldn't stop very quickly.

Video of Pachulia/Leonard play

I read Smith sticking his leg out as trying to be a nuisance and get a reaction out of Durant, while Pachulia's extra shuffle step as trying to literally get under Leonard and impede his landing.  

But I'm interested in what others have to say about it.  

 

[tjnc09]

This thread is even worse than it usually is during the finals. See you guys for the draft.

That's too bad.  You will miss out on the James/Jordan goat debate, hypothetical top 10 lists, and blazing hot takes.

If you want actual playoff basketball discussion, then you have always been looking in the wrong place.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Video of Pachulia/Leonard play

I read Smith sticking his leg out as trying to be a nuisance and get a reaction out of Durant, while Pachulia's extra shuffle step as trying to literally get under Leonard and impede his landing.  

But I'm interested in what others have to say about it.  

I get your perspective, just don't agree.  I continue to see Pachulia being aggressive - closing out and getting too close to Leonard by a bit - but basically going an extra step (while already turned toward the basket) because he's a big oaf and simply doesn't control his body that well.

It's still classic to me that Popovich and Spurs fans were so up in arms about this play, when Bruce ####### Bowen did far worse than this almost every game of his career.

 

[msudaisy26]

Cavs lose this in 4 and the league is going to contract 4 teams next year in order to level the playing field, imo

Why stop at 4? Everyone in here has said it is just the Warriors for the next 5 years.

 

[Short Corner]

Just to help in judging your analysis - highest level of basketball ever played, and were you a starter or bench player?

JC as a starter, transferred to DI and got cut as a walk on.

Coached HS for 12 years in the states.  Coached at several levels in Germany past 9 years.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

I get your perspective, just don't agree.  I continue to see Pachulia being aggressive - closing out and getting too close to Leonard by a bit - but basically going an extra step (while already turned toward the basket) because he's a big oaf and simply doesn't control his body that well.

It's still classic to me that Popovich and Spurs fans were so up in arms about this play, when Bruce ####### Bowen did far worse than this almost every game of his career.

Fair enough on the first paragraph.  Smith being pretty squared up on Durant and going for it versus Zaza being late rotating over to close out on Leonard also supports your argument.

So true with the second paragraph.  Bowen made the play famous.

 

[Short Corner]

Video of Pachulia/Leonard play

I read Smith sticking his leg out as trying to be a nuisance and get a reaction out of Durant, while Pachulia's extra shuffle step as trying to literally get under Leonard and impede his landing.  

But I'm interested in what others have to say about it.  

Right, he wasn't sticking his leg out to get it into his landing area.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Fair enough on the first paragraph.  Smith being pretty squared up on Durant and going for it versus Zaza being late rotating over to close out on Leonard also supports your argument.

So true with the second paragraph.  Bowen made the play famous.

Just to further clarify:   It really pisses me off that players do this.  And I would love to see Pachulia punished severely for it.  Bowen should have been banned for the frequency with which he did this.  But I also think if folks are up in arms about Pachulia, they should castigate Smith too.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Right, he wasn't sticking his leg out to get it into his landing area.

What was he doing with his leg, in your opinion?

 

[Short Corner]

What was he doing with his leg, in your opinion?

Sorry, that was sarcasm.  It was obviously what he was doing.

 

[tjnc09]

The play Curry double dribbled on?

Yes, he double dribbled.  Can't fault James there at all when he recognized Curry put two hands on the ball and jumped towards him.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

JC as a starter, transferred to DI and got cut as a walk on.

Coached HS for 12 years in the states.  Coached at several levels in Germany past 9 years.

but how many ways can you identify that kenpom can improve his methodology?

 

[mr. furley]

Why stop at 4? Everyone in here has said it is just the Warriors for the next 5 years.

i don't think the NBA can really contract 20 teams over the next 5 years but maybe that would thicken the talent pool enough so that all teams have 15 HOFers on their roster, which would give them a chance against the mega-superstar Warriors?

haven't crunched the numbers on that yet in order to have a hot take 

 

[Short Corner]

Re: Smith/Pachulia plays.

They aren't close outs they are contests.  Close outs are ### down, high hands, several choppy steps to the man on the catch.  

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

 You have absolutely no concept about the actual game of basketball.  That is the ONLY reason I ever respond to things you say.

Why do your replies include so many lies?  It seems if I'm such an idiot you wouldn't have to make stuff up in response.  But you misrepresent-to-flat-out-lie about stuff I've said all the time.  

 

[Short Corner]

but how many ways can you identify that kenpom can improve his methodology?

I would have to see his methodology.  Who is kenpom?

 

[Vanilla Guerrilla]

So, speaking of the Bowen hate...  I hadn't really followed the NBA closely outside of maybe the Wolves for maybe a decade.  At some point I was watching a Spurs game and for some reason thought Kawhi Leonard was Bruce Bowen that had developed an offensive game.  I probably went about a year before figuring out they were totally different dudes.

 

[Vanilla Guerrilla]

Why do your replies include so many lies?  It seems if I'm such an idiot you wouldn't have to make stuff up in response.  But you misrepresent-to-flat-out-lie about stuff I've said all the time.  

Can't spell replies without "lies".

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

I would have to see his methodology.  Who is kenpom?

Ken Pomeroy

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Sorry, that was sarcasm.  It was obviously what he was doing.

Ha, my bad

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Games 1 & 2 were at Golden State.  Should we all ignore that the next two games are in Cleveland and how that helps their role players?  

I don't think it will matter.  GS's role players are experienced and have been solid starters in the league elsewhere.  They won't get phased on the road.

CLE should win 1 of the next 2.  But that's because GS lives on their shooting.  Even with 3 great shooters, they will have an off night as a team.  And on that night the CLE role players will likely get more involved when GS checks out defensively.

It's just too easy for GS to shutdown Korver and Smith when they care.  What CLE really needs is a Gobert/Gortat/Lopez/Kanter type.  Gobert may not finish well, but he gets to the line out of the pick and roll. Thompson is an ineffective offensive threat.  Picking up Korver really didn't add much to their team.  Maybe if they had 2 Korvers, but they don't.  Overall CLE role players aren't that good from 3 land.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Re: Smith/Pachulia plays.

They aren't close outs they are contests.  Close outs are ### down, high hands, several choppy steps to the man on the catch.  

What if they are ### down, high hands, long strides to the man on the catch?  What should we call those?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Re: Smith/Pachulia plays.

They aren't close outs they are contests.  Close outs are ### down, high hands, several choppy steps to the man on the catch.  

Thanks for the lesson Mr. JC.

 

[Short Corner]

What if they are ### down, high hands, long strides to the man on the catch?  What should we call those?

Call them what you want.  I call them bad/sloppy/lazy close outs.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The play Curry double dribbled on?

On the pump fake? I saw that too. To be fair I called traveling on >50% of the players last night. 

 

[msudaisy26]

I don't think it will matter.  GS's role players are experienced and have been solid starters in the league elsewhere.  They won't get phased on the road.

CLE should win 1 of the next 2.  But that's because GS lives on their shooting.  Even with 3 great shooters, they will have an off night as a team.  And on that night the CLE role players will likely get more involved when GS checks out defensively.

It's just too easy for GS to shutdown Korver and Smith when they care.  What CLE really needs is a Gobert/Gortat/Lopez/Kanter type.  Gobert may not finish well, but he gets to the line out of the pick and roll. Thompson is an ineffective offensive threat.  Picking up Korver really didn't add much to their team.  Maybe if they had 2 Korvers, but they don't.  Overall CLE role players aren't that good from 3 land.

Every good team in the league lives on their shooting. This isn't the 80's or 90's. The best teams shoot the 3, they shoot it well and they shoot it often. 

Cleveland doesn't need a guy clogging up the lane. Kanter, and Lopez would be worse than Thompson for this team because they are horrible on defense and Lopez is a bad rebounder. 

 

[tjnc09]

Thanks for the lesson Mr. JC.

People should pay more attention to the things he writes.

 

[Short Corner]

Didn't know we were comparing Curry to Jones or where you want to go with this.  I didn't even see what you are referring to.  Why has GS kept their starters in multiple possessions longer than the Cavs both games so far?  Maybe you should be questioning Kerr and Mr. Potato Head.

It was one possession.  Warriors called TO to get the substitution.

 

[Charlie Harper]

On the pump fake? I saw that too. To be fair I called traveling on >50% of the players last night. 

Was double dribble for sure. I thought so when it was live and slow motion confirmed it.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

By the way, Pomeroy is missing several things that could vastly improve his site.  The fact that you brought up his name tells me all I need to know.  

Bringing up his name without context doesn't tell you anything.  Maybe I meant "Pomeroy sucks and only losers look at his site".  Maybe I meant "Pomeroy has flaws, but his stats are interesting to use as a starting point and are better than basic counting stats".  Maybe I meant "Understanding what Pomeroy is doing, both good and bad, is really helpful when evaluating competitors' work".  But you jumped to a conclusion without enough information.  And none of what you said refuted the argument I was making, which is weird given how much smarter than me you think you are.           

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Was double dribble for sure. I thought so when it was live and slow motion confirmed it.

LeBron signaling for a double-dribble call when it happened might have gotten in the way of using fundamentally sound defensive technique.  But I'll defer to others on that.

 

[Jayrod]

As a former player and ref, the thing that is absolutely driving me scream-at-the-TV-insane is the illegal screens.

How in the heck are you supposed to guard anyone when they can move like that as you try to go around?  I hate it so much just typing this out is pissing me off.  It isn't basketball if you are allowed lead blockers.

 

[Short Corner]

As a former player and ref, the thing that is absolutely driving me scream-at-the-TV-insane is the illegal screens.

How in the heck are you supposed to guard anyone when they can move like that as you try to go around?  I hate it so much just typing this out is pissing me off.  It isn't basketball if you are allowed lead blockers.

Agreed.  Still not as bad as it was last year IMO.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

People should pay more attention to the things he writes.

That's why I said thank you

 

[Short Corner]

LeBron signaling for a double-dribble call when it happened might have gotten in the way of using fundamentally sound defensive technique.  But I'll defer to others on that.

Whining generally does that.  Very rare the defender will change the refs mind there.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Was double dribble for sure. I thought so when it was live and slow motion confirmed it.

I see 3 fouls on James and 3 traveling violations on Curry. 

 

[Scoresman]

They should just play the game without any refs then go back and look at the game in slow motion  and erase any scoring on plays where there was an illegal move. The final scores would be more in line with soccer games. 

 

[Dedfin]

As a former player and ref, the thing that is absolutely driving me scream-at-the-TV-insane is the illegal screens.

How in the heck are you supposed to guard anyone when they can move like that as you try to go around?  I hate it so much just typing this out is pissing me off.  It isn't basketball if you are allowed lead blockers.

I know this has bled into college too.  Do you ref HS?  How is this called in your area?

 

[DJackson10]

You would be surprised at how much you can write about the NBA when you don't waste time watching the NBA. 

I understand the the NBA quite fine. Like I said I watch my team but I have no interest in watching other games that honestly I can predict the outcome on. Betting on the NBA is playing with house money quite frankly 

 

[DJackson10]

Tired of all these Johnny-come-lately types suddenly acting like the NBA Finals/playoffs/season has been determined since last July. I've been telling y'all the whole time.  At least Kevin Durant asked Steph Curry if he could ride his coattails after all the hard work had already been done.

I really only started posting here predominately last year and was mostly in the football threads. However I was telling people the something since Last July. 

 

[DJackson10]

I love to see you complaining about "too much showboating and me me how do I get on the top 10 of SC" with your name being DJackson10.

At least he actually helped his team win more games then lose. Look I can take 1 or two guys doing it but when a whole league seems to care more about themselves then the team it's a huge turn off. Watching the World Baseball Classic I wanted to either start managing and benching guys butts for doing it or be the pitcher who gives them one in the ribs for it. 

 

[pollardsvision]

I think I'm done with the NBA for a while.

As an aside, I don't really watch hockey, but this Nashville thing has an Oracle/Golden State from the StackJack days feel to it right now. Damn, I miss that team.

 

[DJackson10]

Was hoping for a good finals, but man is GS overwhelming.  The only way the Cavs can win is to play perfect basketball for 4 out of the 5 next games.  I just don't see that happening.  GS just has way more forgiveness in their team when they make a mistake.  That is a hell of a basketball team hitting on all cylinders right now...

Only way Cavs are winning any game is if the Refs make it blatantly obvious to help them and lend them a hand or GS can't make it to Cleveland and has to forfeit the games.