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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (2 Viewers)

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I love you pissah but this just ain't right.  Here's one of many good reads proving you wrong.
Fantastic read.  

Couldn't find it in a quick search, but there's a similar article floating around about prepping for the Game 7 MIA won over SAS.  They handed LeBron his shot charts but didn't need to put together any video for him because he could recall every play and move he'd made to get open for a shot in the areas they identified as opportunities for him.  IIRC, the jumper he hit to put them up 4 with about 30 seconds left was from that gameplan session, from why it should be Chalmers setting the screen to what angle he would take with the dribble to get an open shot at the spot he wanted.

 
So what are the chances Cavs win tonight?  Game has to be closer tonight than the first 2 right?
Tonight is definitely the most difficult road game for GS this postseason.  They have only played six road games this postseason and half of those it looked like their opponents quit g4.

 
Tonight is definitely the most difficult road game for GS this postseason.  They have only played six road games this postseason and half of those it looked like their opponents quit g4.
In the past you have argued that Kerr loses Game 3 of playoff series on purpose to set up wins later in the series.  How much do you think that will be a factor tonight?

 
In the past you have argued that Kerr loses Game 3 of playoff series on purpose to set up wins later in the series.  How much do you think that will be a factor tonight?
They are so much better than the Cavs that even if they tried to lose one, I'm not sure if they could at this point.  Haven't watched the games, just going off of info from this thread.

 
In previous years game 3s have been an Achilles heel for the Warriors, a fact they seem to be acutely aware of this year. I've heard that after game two of the Finals last year they were yukking it up and comparing playing the Cavs to playing regular season games while this year they have been all business and deadly serious. I also think 4-4-4-4 is a real thing and they would love to rub the Cavs' nose in it. I've also heard rumors of a hack-a-Bron strategy if the game is close. I doubt it happens but I would be gleeful.

People are saying the Cavs should slow down the pace and grind it out a-la the last two years. The fact is they don't have the quality of defense to do that anymore and the Warriors defense only gets better as possesions get later in the shot clock. Trying to outgun the Warriors may seem like a weird strategy but it's the way this Cleveland team has been built (and Richard Jefferson is a shell of his 2016 self). All the pieces they've added have been offense-first and they set the regular-season record for 3s in a game earlier this year (along with ignoring defense entirely). One thing they may do is post up LeBron more but that will also tire him out faster. They've been completely gassed by the fourth quarter in the first two games by trying to run with the Warriors but at this point that's the bed they've made.

In short I don't think there is any real winning strategy here. Sure, the spectacular Cavs/horrible Warriors game is still in the deck but it has inside straight sort of odds. I put a few units on Golden State -3.5 to go along with my winning-the-series wagers for whatever that's worth.

It's also notable that the Cavs have not yet signed their GM to a new contract. Dan Gilbert has gone through four general managers in his years owning the team, never offering any of them a second contract. I think David Griffin has done a masterful job given the constraints he's under but there's not a lot of moves left to be made because they've signed all LeBron's aging buddies to long-term albatross contracts. They can try to see what trading Kevin Love will garner but it's hard to imagine the return being a huge upgrade. They are who they are at this point.

If LeBron wins another chamionship it won't be in a Cleveland uniform. He's a free agent in 20019 and I think he bails.

 
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In the past you have argued that Kerr loses Game 3 of playoff series on purpose to set up wins later in the series.  How much do you think that will be a factor tonight?
Cherry picking a fraction of what I said about their historical problems in g3 isn't helping you be any less annoying.

 
Just took GS for $20 straight up tonight with an old friend. Dude knows hoops, so maybe I'm missing something, but I think GS rolls again tonight. They're simply a vastly better team. 

 
Just took GS for $20 straight up tonight with an old friend. Dude knows hoops, so maybe I'm missing something, but I think GS rolls again tonight. They're simply a vastly better team. 
Well, looks like this series goes to 5 now.  Crap.  The 16-0 was a lock, until now. 

 
In previous years game 3s have been an Achilles heel for the Warriors, a fact they seem to be acutely aware of this year. I've heard that after game two of the Finals last year they were yukking it up and comparing playing the Cavs to playing regular season games while this year they have been all business and deadly serious. I also think 4-4-4-4 is a real thing and they would love to rub the Cavs' nose in it. I've also heard rumors of a hack-a-Bron strategy if the game is close. I doubt it happens but I would be gleeful.
LeBron might not be a great FT shooter, but he's still 74% career shooter in the regular season and a little better in the playoffs.  Would make a whole lot more sense to hack-a-Thompson or hack-a-JR.  JRs a very similar FT shooter to LeBron, but the moment's a lot more likely to be too big for him than it is for LeBron.

 
TG, I think you're good, you just set it up with the "the guy knows hoops" too much for me to pass up.  Sheeeeeeit, no one knows anything about 1 game.  

 
LeBron might not be a great FT shooter, but he's still 74% career shooter in the regular season and a little better in the playoffs.  Would make a whole lot more sense to hack-a-Thompson or hack-a-JR.  JRs a very similar FT shooter to LeBron, but the moment's a lot more likely to be too big for him than it is for LeBron.
You are correct. I just liked the idea of an additional "#### you" to Cleveland and LeBron in particular. That and the possibility of deliberately putting him on the line only to have him fail has almost unlimited hot take potential.

 
People were bringing LeBron up as the Next Jordan in fact putting the guy in the HoF and putting him over everyone well before his first game. Look I don't blame LeBron for the hype I blame the media and the sport who were so desperate to replace MJ. To me Kobe was more Jordan then LeBron on demeanor, play, competitiveness, toughness etc. I've been saying this for yrs people want LeBron to be Jordan because well thats what everyone in the NBA and mother have been telling us since the dude was in HS. Watch the something is gonna happen with Simmons as people keep saying oh he's the next LeBron. I think it's more so people are throwing the blame for him not being Jordan because it's easier then blaming the media. A lot of us who have watched both eras think this era is very soft and it seems many in the media will defend this era till it's blue in the face. So really if the media isn't gonna listen us then LeBron becomes the punching bag for so many of us. Also Neither player is the same type of player. I really hate when media and fans throw player comparisons around that make little to no sense. This isn't me saying LeBron sucks. However in Mia he got way more adulation for a finals win where Ray Allen and Mike Miller if he didn't have them probably loses and the officials missed a blatant shooting foul on Mia on Danny Green's 3. The media will blame LeBron for the loses but he takes all the credit for the wins. I get that however there were other key players. If Cleland loses this finals it's not all his fault but you can blame him for pressuring Gilbert and the Cavs for giving Trystan Thompson a huge deal that didn't do the Cavs any favors of adding better depth and role players. I wasn't really posting on here during the time but I said to friends and anyone who'd listen signing Thompson again to such a huge contract won't do Cleland any favors. Sure they'll get to the Finals but don't be surprised if they lose because they have no room now cap wise to add solid depth players. 

Yeah I;d be an idiot if I didn't pass to a wide open Allen/Korver but that's not the point here. The point was there's been times in his career especially early on where LeBron seemed very timid to try anything. Remember him quitting on the Cavs in the early days of the playoffs that one year? You think Magic, MJ Bird etc would've ever done of that?  LeBron is a talented player but he plays in an era where athletes in all sports are babied and their bad mechanics and play are enabled by poor rules because these leagues wan't more offense to keep the casual fan involved. I was on another board talking about the NFL bad ratings this year and attributed to the NFL catering more to the casual fan and fantasy players which is driving the old school fan away. I'm sure the Kapernick situation didn't help but I don't think that caused as much of an impact as some would think. Ratings were dropping in the NFL well before that. Unfortunately a lot of people can't stay still for a few hours and enjoy the game and need constant brain stimulation which is why Soccer in this country will never be as popular as it is everywhere else in the world. 
LeBron might not have quit on the Cavs that 1 game you're talking about.  If I remember right it was a Game 5 when Pierce was still close to his prime.  LeBron was obviously better than Pierce.  But when he has to defend a great scorer he can't catch his breath on D and that Cleveland team whatever year that was 2010 maybe? had no other offensive weapons so LeBron had to defend one of the better scorers in the league and carry the offense.  It wasn't a good game, but I think it's entirely possible we're talking exhaustion not quitting.  Not to mention Pierce at the time was one of the few players who was physically up to at least pestering LeBron at that time (smaller but quick and strong).

And again you're missing the point.  Just because Jordan was a score first guy doesn't mean that's the only type of player that can be considered the best of all time.  A lot of people out west still say Magic was the best of all time (he definitely wasn't score-first), I think Bill Russell should still be in the conversation personally, he certainly wasn't score-first.  Each era has their guy and 20-30 years from now Jordan will be mostly forgotten like Wilt/Russell are.  Jordan is partially the undisputed best of all time because he was the best when a lot of the current sports writers etc were 10 years old or whatever age you're most impressionable.  I'd assume since you think that everything was better in the 80s 90s basketball-wise that you were in that sweet age spot when Jordan was at his best.  The game was different in yesteryear.  It doesn't really mean it was better.  The NBA is a smart league, they changed rules to make it more watchable for the majority of people or at least they think it helped viewership.

When the kids who are 10-20 right now are our sports writers/commentators LeBron will probably be the undisputed best all time because they'll have grown up on him.  Just like you did with Jordan.  If you remember Jordan was not even close to the best of all time conversation until he was around 30.

 
You are correct. I just liked the idea of an additional "#### you" to Cleveland and LeBron in particular. That and the possibility of deliberately putting him on the line only to have him fail has almost unlimited hot take potential.
If LeBron didn't have 3 rings I'd say it wouldn't be a terrible idea.  But in a close game you're just asking to piss him off and get him to reach that extra gear for the last couple minutes if the Warriors are trying to embarrass him.  No way he can reach that extra gear all game, but I expect even with all the stars on GS he could dominate the court for 5-10 minutes.

 
It's also notable that the Cavs have not yet signed their GM to a new contract. Dan Gilbert has gone through four general managers in his years owning the team, never offering any of them a second contract. I think David Griffin has done a masterful job given the constraints he's under but there's not a lot of moves left to be made because they've signed all LeBron's aging buddies to long-term albatross contracts. They can try to see what trading Kevin Love will garner but it's hard to imagine the return being a huge upgrade. They are who they are at this point.

If LeBron wins another chamionship it won't be in a Cleveland uniform. He's a free agent in 20019 and I think he bails.
This is a little too pessimistic. The Cavs are capped out because they have three max players, not because they've been handing out charity contracts.  And while the Warriors will be overwhelming favorites for the foreseeable future, if one of their top 3 guys has a season ending injury, the Cavs are at least as well positioned as any other team in the league to win it all.  

 
This is a little too pessimistic. The Cavs are capped out because they have three max players, not because they've been handing out charity contracts.  And while the Warriors will be overwhelming favorites for the foreseeable future, if one of their top 3 guys has a season ending injury, the Cavs are at least as well positioned as any other team in the league to win it all.  
I don't disagree that they are well positioned, just stating that they have little room to maneuver to get better. The Thompson/J.R. Smith contracts don't help. That and Dan Gilbert is cheap.

 
Cherry picking a fraction of what I said about their historical problems in g3 isn't helping you be any less annoying.
Think about how much this bothers you the next time you craft a post that is nothing more than lies and name-calling.  At least I'm referencing something you actually said.

Enjoy the game tonight.  

 
If LeBron didn't have 3 rings I'd say it wouldn't be a terrible idea.  But in a close game you're just asking to piss him off and get him to reach that extra gear for the last couple minutes if the Warriors are trying to embarrass him.  No way he can reach that extra gear all game, but I expect even with all the stars on GS he could dominate the court for 5-10 minutes.
What constitutes a "close" game?  They trailed by four midway through the 3rd quarter of g2.  He finished after that point with only four points.  He's running more and faster against GS than he has all postseason.  His transition buckets fall tremendously in the second half.  He can't do everything against this team by himself.  I'm not sure where you magically expect this extra gear to come from late in the game.

 
I don't disagree that they are well positioned, just stating that they have little room to maneuver to get better. The Thompson/J.R. Smith contracts don't help. That and Dan Gilbert is cheap.
I get that Gilbert has deferred to the wrong people on decision-making, but where is the pattern of him being cheap?  I thought the problem was CLE has too many long-term big contracts limiting their flexibility.

 
Think about how much this bothers you the next time you craft a post that is nothing more than lies and name-calling.  At least I'm referencing something you actually said.

Enjoy the game tonight.  
:lmao:  nothing bothers me that is said on the internet.  I'm confused as to why someone would repeat the same things over and over and over.

 
I get that Gilbert has deferred to the wrong people on decision-making, but where is the pattern of him being cheap?  I thought the problem was CLE has too many long-term big contracts limiting their flexibility.
I actually don't know how cheap he is (maybe I had them confused with the Browns?), all I know is that he has never given a GM a second contract, even those that win championships. That and LeBron wanted spending money assurances before coming back.

Really I just wanted to talk about something other than what DJackson was blathering on about.

 
I actually don't know how cheap he is (maybe I had them confused with the Browns?), all I know is that he has never given a GM a second contract, even those that win championships. That and LeBron wanted spending money assurances before coming back.

Really I just wanted to talk about something other than what DJackson was blathering on about.
All fair points.  Hadn't factored in front office spending; there is a history there of trying to discover talent rather than signing away established great minds from other franchises. 

Enjoy the game tonight.  

 
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I actually don't know how cheap he is (maybe I had them confused with the Browns?), all I know is that he has never given a GM a second contract, even those that win championships.
Seems like that's more of an indictment of his ability to hire a talented person in the first place. Who knows what is going on with Griffin right now. 

 
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