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2016 ACC Basketball (closed - see 2017 thread) (1 Viewer)

I'm convinced Plumlee being the youngest brother...he had to fight harder.

Love the guy's intensity this year.

 
Ingram with two consecutive great drives ending with weak, soft finishes that don't make it over the rim.

 
Wasn't pretty at least in the second half. But S16 is just that. Haven't watched much of Oregon but second chance points going to catch up with then. 

 
Been seeing it all year...Duke will go 4, 5 & 6 minutes without a bucket.

That can't possibly sustain them when they have issues on defense and rebounding.

 
As a Duke fan, I have no idea how to root for the other half of the West.  Do you want more upsets or the more grueling S16 match-up assuming the better team wins either way.  Obviously looking ahead a bit but what else is there to do?  Assume No. Iowa can give Oklahoma a game.  And think Texas A&M was the worst match-up for Duke anyways with their size.  

Duke lucked out a bit missing Baylor and now presumably Tx A&M if they make it that far.  Yale was a good OR% team but imagine some of that was the Ivy league.  Northern Iowa is the worst OR% team in the NCAA.  Now lets go St. Joes.

ETA: Oops. That may be the most important 40 seconds of the Tournament. 

 
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All the talk of UNC playing late Saturday night, um they now play at 9:57pm on Friday night. Why is a game on the East Coast tipping at almost 10pm?

 
TV ratings should be a factor, but it sucks they are the primary driver. UNC-Providence tipped off in Raleigh around 9:45 - an hour after Gonzaga-Utah tipped off in Denver.

I had no doubt when the brackets came out that a potential UNC-IU/UK game would be the last game to tip on Friday. Also not surprised Duke got the last slot on Thursday, but at least they're playing in Anaheim. Tip times for both Saturday and Sunday are set for 6 and 8:45. Expect Duke and UNC in the late games if they make it. ... I can sleep in April. 

 
Anyone else looking at the brackets and thinking Duke may have the best shot at making the Final Four out of the ACC. Not saying UVa and UNC can't/won't, but I like Duke's shot based on opponents and having the day off in between games.

 
The eye test tells me that Oregon is a tough matchup for duke. Their best scorer is an athletic,somewhat undersized power forward,which is the type of player that had historically (and especially this year without jefferson) hurt them offensively.  

The 5 days of rest/prep does help. If duke is fortunate enough to win, I'd rather play OU in the regional final. I think the OU a&m game is gonna be a war and OU will need 40 minutes of hield doing his superman routine in order to win. I'll take my chances he might have tired legs 36 hours later over a matchup against what appears to be a more balanced a&m squad.

I think unc and uva are both going to the final 4

 
I do like UVa's chances a lot, even before Michigan State crapped out. As for the East, I think most people probably see the winner of the UNC-IU game as the likely rep, but I'm wondering what happens if UNC gets Notre Dame or Indiana gets Wisconsin in the regional final. The conference familiarity thing can do funny things.

 
TLEF316 said:
The eye test tells me that Oregon is a tough matchup for duke. Their best scorer is an athletic,somewhat undersized power forward,which is the type of player that had historically (and especially this year without jefferson) hurt them offensively.  

The 5 days of rest/prep does help. If duke is fortunate enough to win, I'd rather play OU in the regional final. I think the OU a&m game is gonna be a war and OU will need 40 minutes of hield doing his superman routine in order to win. I'll take my chances he might have tired legs 36 hours later over a matchup against what appears to be a more balanced a&m squad.

I think unc and uva are both going to the final 4
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Pretty much agree.  As a comp, Duke always seems to have trouble with ND's Colson.  However, I'm not sure what K's going to do as Oregon's "5" is really a stretch 4 (Boucher) and Cook (the small PF) stays more around the rim (ie Plumlee should be Cook, Ingram on Boucher in a man-to-man).  If Plumlee's quick enough, the rest of Duke's size matches up fairly well on defense.  I'd also expect to see a bunch of zone as Oregon isn't exactly a great 3 PT shooting team besides Dorsey even though they like to shoot it a lot. 

UVa should frustrate the hell out of ISU.  I don't see them losing to the Zags-Cuse winner. 

 
wow, Pitt's Jamie Dixon going to TCU. 

TCU has been the doormat of the Big12 since they joined the conference. Just re-did their arena/facilities. Big upside here for the program.

 
oso diablo said:
wow, Pitt's Jamie Dixon going to TCU. 

TCU has been the doormat of the Big12 since they joined the conference. Just re-did their arena/facilities. Big upside here for the program.
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And big downside for Pitt.  Local loonies have been calling for his head for two years, with absolutely no realistic proposals as to who could replace him.  I would guess there's a thin (make that very thin) chance of Archie Miller, but otherwise, who knows?  I can't see Brandin Knight being ready, so there's nobody internally who can do it.  Do you take a chance on the coach of one of this year's Cinderellas?

 
apalmer said:
And big downside for Pitt.  Local loonies have been calling for his head for two years, with absolutely no realistic proposals as to who could replace him.  I would guess there's a thin (make that very thin) chance of Archie Miller, but otherwise, who knows?  I can't see Brandin Knight being ready, so there's nobody internally who can do it.  Do you take a chance on the coach of one of this year's Cinderellas?
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Why such a thin chance of Archie? Seems like he'd make the most sense of the realistic candidates.

 
RUSF18 said:
Why such a thin chance of Archie? Seems like he'd make the most sense of the realistic candidates.
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He would for Pitt.  I just don't know that he'd want the job.  Upside for him is more money than Dayton and a return to the ACC, but my gut is he'd rather stay where he is until something he likes more (like say, NC State) opens up.

 
apalmer said:
He would for Pitt.  I just don't know that he'd want the job.  Upside for him is more money than Dayton and a return to the ACC, but my gut is he'd rather stay where he is until something he likes more (like say, NC State) opens up.
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At this point, the Pitt job is at least comparable to NC State (if not better) especially since he's been recruiting that general area and should have a goodish team next year if some players don't leave.  Taking nothing away from State, but if you can't make real inroads in the state now, it's tough to see how they manage 5 years from now. 

 
Sammy3469 said:
At this point, the Pitt job is at least comparable to NC State (if not better) especially since he's been recruiting that general area and should have a goodish team next year if some players don't leave.  Taking nothing away from State, but if you can't make real inroads in the state now, it's tough to see how they manage 5 years from now. 
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He's also a local guy, with the obvious connection of Sean playing there, which is why I give it any chance at all.  Another possibility is Orlando Antiqua, who has the reputation as a great recruiter from his days at Kentucky, but who hasn't done anything at USF.  Can't see Pitt hiring a guy with 17 wins in 2 years.

 
apalmer said:
He's also a local guy, with the obvious connection of Sean playing there, which is why I give it any chance at all.  Another possibility is Orlando Antiqua, who has the reputation as a great recruiter from his days at Kentucky, but who hasn't done anything at USF.  Can't see Pitt hiring a guy with 17 wins in 2 years.
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I think they also have to call Mack and Cronin to see if either of them want to leave for a more stable conference situation. 

 
Sammy3469 said:
At this point, the Pitt job is at least comparable to NC State (if not better) especially since he's been recruiting that general area and should have a goodish team next year if some players don't leave.  Taking nothing away from State, but if you can't make real inroads in the state now, it's tough to see how they manage 5 years from now. 
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I am obviously biased but I'm interested to know why Pitt would be viewed as a better job than N.C. State. I would think these criteria would factor in to varying degrees:

  • Salary/compensation for head coach
  • Salary/compensation for staff
  • Budget (e.g., for recruiting)
  • Facilities
  • Quality of current roster and incoming recruits
  • Tradition/reputation
  • Quality of fan base
  • Relationships with AD, chancellor, big donors, etc.
  • Place to live/cost of living
I'm sure there are other factors that I have missed. How many factors favor Pitt over State? I really don't know much about Pitt, so I don't know.

I'm pretty sure that Gott's base salary is considerably higher than Dixon's, but I'm not sure how to account for all of the external sources of compensation to properly compare compensation. Would Pitt pay Archie what they have been paying Dixon?

There are many State fans who think State should go after Archie now, but one down season isn't enough to push Gott out IMO.

Not sure what you are saying with the bolded.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I am obviously biased but I'm interested to know why Pitt would be viewed as a better job than N.C. State. I would think these criteria would factor in to varying degrees:

  • Salary/compensation for head coach
  • Salary/compensation for staff
  • Budget (e.g., for recruiting)
  • Facilities
  • Quality of current roster and incoming recruits
  • Tradition/reputation
  • Quality of fan base
  • Relationships with AD, chancellor, big donors, etc.
  • Place to live/cost of living
I'm sure there are other factors that I have missed. How many factors favor Pitt over State? I really don't know much about Pitt, so I don't know.

I'm pretty sure that Gott's base salary is considerably higher than Dixon's, but I'm not sure how to account for all of the external sources of compensation to properly compare compensation. Would Pitt pay Archie what they have been paying Dixon?

There are many State fans who think State should go after Archie now, but one down season isn't enough to push Gott out IMO.

Not sure what you are saying with the bolded.
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Dixon made a little more than 3 million in all imp this year.  Gottfried was at 2.5 if I'm reading correctly.  TCU also owes Pitt a boatload for the buyout.  Draw your own conclusions, but Pitt seems to have cash to burn.  

Also re: recruiting...it's much easier to be the big dog in the upper Mideast for talent that wants to play in the ACC versus being 3rd banana in your own state.  Pitt has some structural recruiting advantages that a good recruiter should be able to take advantage of.

For the right candidate, Pitt could be a great job.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Dixon made a little more than 3 million in all imp this year.  Gottfried was at 2.5 if I'm reading correctly.  TCU also owes Pitt a boatload for the buyout.  Draw your own conclusions, but Pitt seems to have cash to burn.  

Also re: recruiting...it's much easier to be the big dog in the upper Mideast for talent that wants to play in the ACC versus being 3rd banana in your own state.  Pitt has some structural recruiting advantages that a good recruiter should be able to take advantage of.

For the right candidate, Pitt could be a great job.
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Gott's base salary was $2.5M and Dixon's was $1.4M. I saw that Dixon made $3.2M total, but we don't know what Gott's total is. Last year, before Gott's recent contract extension, it was reported that his base salary was $2.06M and he could earn up to $1.3M more in bonuses, though to max that out I assume he would have to win the national championship. But that is just his contract with the university. Like all coaches, he makes money for radio/TV shows, apparel deals, etc. So I believe comparing Dixon's $3.2M to Gott's $2.5M is apples and oranges. That's what I meant when I said I don't have the info needed to properly compare their compensation.

Regarding recruiting, is your bolded statement here really true? State had 6 4 star players on its roster this season, despite losing 5 other 4+ star players to early departure who would have otherwise been on the roster (Warren, Lacey, Purvis, Lewis, Washington). (To be fair, if they all stayed, some of the current players likely would not have chosen State.) Pitt had 2 4 star players on its roster this season. State has an incoming 5 star recruit and Pitt has verbals from 2 incoming 3 star recruits. That data spans 5 recruiting classes. (All info from Verbal Commits.) Now, a new coach could certainly recruit better than Dixon has, but the evidence seems to point to the opposite of your claim.

 
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I think UNC has the best chance of making the four.

They get Indy...who I think will give them some fits, but should still get past them.

Then they get ND or Wisky.

Didn't they just stomp ND less than two weeks ago?  Shouldn't be much different.

Wisky doesn't have the guns to stay with UNC.

UVA should be able to get past Iowa State but it looks like a bit of a dogfight to me.

Then UVA should be able to beat the brakes off of Zags or Syracuse.  They already beat Cuse earlier this year.

Duke will have to put in some work with Oregon.

I worry about Plumlee being able to stay out of foul trouble.

Not sure Ingram can play 1 on 1 defense enough but we'll see.

As mentioned by others, I think the other spots match up well.

As always, Duke will need the shots to fall...cause they can't seem to buy a rebound and haven't quite figured out to play solid team defense...although zone has had some success for them.

Once they get past Oregon...it'll be disgusting to see A&M.  That's a solid team and will be a tough one.  OK will be just as bad for Duke...who in the world can corral Hield?  Especially on this team?  I guess just keep doubling and switching on him in order to confuse and frustrate him.

But Duke can score with anyone.  If they don't waste too many possessions and definitely don't get into those ruts where they can't seem to get a basket for 3-5 minutes...they should have a great shot.

I'm already happy with the results...if they make it further, it'll feel like gravy to me.  This team is playing shorthanded as hell and still no natural point guard...so I'm happy so far.

 
I think it'd be more interesting to talk about the other ACC team's chances.

Cuse has a shot...but got rather lucky with their draw and circumstance.

Zags are tough though...honestly, I'd give the Zags the edge here...we'll see.

Notre Dame and Wisky...yikes.  This could be some brutal play.  Can't count ND out though.

Miami and Nova...I honestly didn't get to see much of either this year...what do people see here?  I picked them to win this one but that could be some conference bias showing through.

 
Man...that NC State 30 for 30 is SO damned hard to turn off.

It's 3am and I've gotta be up early in the morning and even though I've seen it countless times...I couldn't turn it off.

 
NMYMND said:
Anyone else looking at the brackets and thinking Duke may have the best shot at making the Final Four out of the ACC. Not saying UVa and UNC can't/won't, but I like Duke's shot based on opponents and having the day off in between games.
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I thought this when the brackets came out ... or at least I thought if the teams were of equal quality Duke was in the most favorable spot, with UNC and UVA's brackets having multiple teams in them better than the 1 seed in Duke's region and no certainty that a quality team would be waiting for Duke if it gets past Oregon. But now that UNC and UVA's regions have lost their 2 and 3 seeds, and Duke's region has held up and they'll have to win two coin flip games to get through, it looks a little different.

 
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I'm pulling for all ACC teams in the Sweet 16. As much as I loathe Duke, an Elite 8 involving 6 teams from the ACC would be pretty awesome.

 
tdoss said:
Man...that NC State 30 for 30 is SO damned hard to turn off.

It's 3am and I've gotta be up early in the morning and even though I've seen it countless times...I couldn't turn it off.
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Whittenburg said he would have liked to have shown in the documentary that Lorenzo's grave is only 10 feet away from V's, and that the day of Lo's funeral, they put a rose on both graves. There wasn't enough time left to fit it in.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Regarding recruiting, is your bolded statement here really true? State had 5 4 star players on its roster this season, despite losing 5 other 4+ star players to early departure who would have otherwise been on the roster (Warren, Lacey, Purvis, Lewis, Washington). (To be fair, if they all stayed, some of the current players likely would not have chosen State.) Pitt had 2 4 star players on its roster this season. State has an incoming 5 star recruit and Pitt has verbals from 2 incoming 3 star recruits. That data spans 5 recruiting classes. (All info from Verbal Commits.) Now, a new coach could certainly recruit better than Dixon has, but the evidence seems to point to the opposite of your claim.
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Pitt has the possibility to really recruit Philly and DC (and to a lesser extent OH) really, really well.  They should at least be the 2nd choice to MD for all these kids.  That's where Dixon sort of fizzled out the past 4-5 years (keep in mind in '09 and '11 they were #1 seeds in the NCAA tourney, so he was recruiting well then). 

The point is Dixon wasn't recruiting DC/Philly/NYC that well anymore and the new AD thinks he should be as they should be at worst 2nd choice behind MD for a lot of these kids.  They currently aren't which is the problem.  With the right coach, they'll be able to pull these kids which is why the job 4-5 years from now is better than what State will be facing with a probation-free UNC facing them. 

 
tdoss said:
I think it'd be more interesting to talk about the other ACC team's chances.

Cuse has a shot...but got rather lucky with their draw and circumstance.

Zags are tough though...honestly, I'd give the Zags the edge here...we'll see.

Notre Dame and Wisky...yikes.  This could be some brutal play.  Can't count ND out though.

Miami and Nova...I honestly didn't get to see much of either this year...what do people see here?  I picked them to win this one but that could be some conference bias showing through.
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It has been a crazy tournament thus far. I've enjoyed the upsets and buzzer beaters. I'm hoping this weekend will be another unpredictable wild ride.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Pitt has the possibility to really recruit Philly and DC (and to a lesser extent OH) really, really well.  They should at least be the 2nd choice to MD for all these kids.  That's where Dixon sort of fizzled out the past 4-5 years (keep in mind in '09 and '11 they were #1 seeds in the NCAA tourney, so he was recruiting well then). 

The point is Dixon wasn't recruiting DC/Philly/NYC that well anymore and the new AD thinks he should be as they should be at worst 2nd choice behind MD for a lot of these kids.  They currently aren't which is the problem.  With the right coach, they'll be able to pull these kids which is why the job 4-5 years from now is better than what State will be facing with a probation-free UNC facing them. 
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You mean when Hubert Davis is leading the Matt Doherty part II era at UNC? And K is retired? (And Pitino and Boeheim and Larranaga.)

I look forward to those circumstances as a State fan. I see opportunity getting better, not worse. 

 
Just Win Baby said:
You mean when Hubert Davis is leading the Matt Doherty part II era at UNC? And K is retired? (And Pitino and Boeheim and Larranaga.)

I look forward to those circumstances as a State fan. I see opportunity getting better, not worse. 
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The two aren't mutually exclusive in the new ACC and doesn't change the fact that Pitt is the one team in the ACC best positioned to consistently pull high level talent out of the big cities in the Mid-Atlantic now that MD is in the Big 10 and with the Philly/NYC area filled with teams from the old Big East/AAC/etc.   

 
Sammy3469 said:
Pitt has the possibility to really recruit Philly and DC (and to a lesser extent OH) really, really well.  They should at least be the 2nd choice to MD for all these kids.  That's where Dixon sort of fizzled out the past 4-5 years (keep in mind in '09 and '11 they were #1 seeds in the NCAA tourney, so he was recruiting well then). 

The point is Dixon wasn't recruiting DC/Philly/NYC that well anymore and the new AD thinks he should be as they should be at worst 2nd choice behind MD for a lot of these kids.  They currently aren't which is the problem.  With the right coach, they'll be able to pull these kids which is why the job 4-5 years from now is better than what State will be facing with a probation-free UNC facing them. 
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The problem is that DC/Philly/NY aren't ACC-centric.  The reason Pitt could recruit them well before is because they were in the Big East, the league those kids watched every night on tv, and that played games in their area constantly.  Those kids wanted to play in the Big East and play games in front of their friends and families.  If they didn't go to Georgetown, Nova, St. John's or UConn, they wanted to go to schools that played those teams.  When Pitt joined the ACC, my biggest fear was that they'd lose that recruiting base for that reason and they have.  Those kids just don't care about the ACC the way they did about the Big East. They want to play at Madison Square Garden, not Greensboro.  Even the ACC Network commercials emphasize that the league is still all about Tobacco Road.  I watch a commercial for the Carolina Ford Dealers or Food Lion, "official sponsors of the ACC" and can't help thinking that I'd have to drive 6 hours from Pittsburgh to get to a Food Lion and 8 hours to get to a Carolina Ford dealer, so how is this "my" league? Unless you can sell yourself as a national championship contender like Duke, NC or Louisville, kids in those cities don't have any reason to go to your school.  Pitt will never be #2 behind MD there.  They will also be behind Georgetown, UConn, and Nova, at least (not to mention Duke and NC).  At best, they're going to compete there for the kids that St. John's, Temple and 'Cuse (and maybe even Seton Hall and Rutgers if they get their acts together) are trying to get.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Pitt has the possibility to really recruit Philly and DC (and to a lesser extent OH) really, really well.  They should at least be the 2nd choice to MD for all these kids.  That's where Dixon sort of fizzled out the past 4-5 years (keep in mind in '09 and '11 they were #1 seeds in the NCAA tourney, so he was recruiting well then). 

The point is Dixon wasn't recruiting DC/Philly/NYC that well anymore and the new AD thinks he should be as they should be at worst 2nd choice behind MD for a lot of these kids.  They currently aren't which is the problem.  With the right coach, they'll be able to pull these kids which is why the job 4-5 years from now is better than what State will be facing with a probation-free UNC facing them. 
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Pittsburgh isn’t that much closer to those Mid Atlantic cities than other ACC schools (all miles approximate)

DC:

UVA 120 miles

Pitt 250 miles

Triangle schools 260 miles

Philly:

UVA 250 miles

Pitt 300 miles

Triangle schools 400

NYC:

UVA 340 miles

Pitt 370

Triangle schools 480

 
Boston to NYC 215

Cuse to NYC 247

Pitt to NYC 370

Cuse to Philly 250

Pitt to Philly 300

Boston to Philly 300

 
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