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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (1 Viewer)

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not without significant dumping - starters
If they get both....Crowder and Bradley are redundant. Not re-signing IT would also be ok too. 

Butler and Hayward + any of Crowder/Horford/Bradley and future draft picks would be a solid foundation.

If they can keep Crowder and Horford and only lose Bradley and IT. I think Boston could be scary.

 
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woj reporting the Celtics are getting the no. 3, next year's lakers pick, and "possibly" the Sixers 2021, with protections involved. 

 
woj reporting the Celtics are getting the no. 3, next year's lakers pick, and "possibly" the Sixers 2021, with protections involved. 
Sounds good to me. If Fultz is who they identified as the guy they want, those future picks aren't going to mean much. 

 
woj reporting the Celtics are getting the no. 3, next year's lakers pick, and "possibly" the Sixers 2021, with protections involved. 
close to what i'm hearing, too, but i dont believe Trader Danny will give a division rival a high-profile player they covet without making it huuuurt. that might be value but that dont hurt

 
Sounds good to me. If Fultz is who they identified as the guy they want, those future picks aren't going to mean much. 
I think you mean the 21 Sixers pick won't mean much, but next year's Lakers pick should certainly be valuable.

 
Suppose the trade is #1 to PHI for #3 and 2018 Lakers 1st.

If I haven't missed something, I think that means BOS owns the following:

2017 #3
2017 #37
2017 #53
2017 #56
2018 Nets 1st
2018 Lakers 1st
2018 Celtics 1st
2019 Celtics 1st
2019 Memphis 1st
2019 Clippers 1st
2019 Pistons 2nd
2020 Celtics 1st
2020 Heat 2nd
2020 Celtics 2nd

That is a lot of draft capital. Assuming they use the #3 pick this year for themselves, what would it take as a combo of other picks and players for them to trade for Butler?

Could they sign Hayward, draft at #3, and still fit Butler and their redshirt Euro players under the cap rules? What players would they have to drop/move to do that?

If not, would trading back to #4 or #5 make a difference?

I can't find a better source than this thread for assimilating all of the possibilities.

 
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Just Win Baby said:
Suppose the trade is #1 to PHI for #3 and 2018 Lakers 1st.

If I haven't missed something, I think that means BOS owns the following:

2017 #3
2017 #37
2017 #53
2017 #56
2018 Nets 1st
2018 Lakers 1st
2018 Celtics 1st
2019 Celtics 1st
2019 Memphis 1st
2019 Clippers 1st
2019 Pistons 2nd
2020 Celtics 1st
2020 Heat 2nd
2020 Celtics 2nd

That is a lot of draft capital. Assuming they use the #3 pick this year, what would it take as a combo of picks and players for them to trade for Butler?

Could they sign Hayward, draft at #3, and still fit Butler and their redshirt Euro players under the cap rules? What players would they have to drop/move to do that?

If not, would trading back to #4 or #5 make a difference?

I can't find a better source than this thread for assimilating all of the possibilities.
I think this is what their cap situation is if they renounce everybody and cut all unguaranteed contracts:

Al Horford $27,734,405.00
Avery Bradley $8,808,989.00
Jae Crowder $6,796,117.00
Isaiah Thomas $6,261,395.00
Jaylen Brown $4,956,480.00
Marcus Smart $4,538,020.00
Terry Rozier $1,988,520.00
Demetrius Jackson $1,384,750.00
#3 Pick $5,645,400.00
Min Salary Cap Hold $815,615.00
Min Salary Cap Hold $815,615.00
Min Salary Cap Hold $815,615.00
Total Salary $70,560,921.00
Approx Cap Space $30,439,079.00


That would leave them juuuuuust enough to offer Hayward a max contract. After they signed Hayward they could trade for Butler, but they would need to include about $13.7million in salaries (Bradley and Crowder mostly likely). That leaves them without a power forward (unless they draft one), or much in the way of backups outside of their guards. I'm sure they could get creative and do something more complex than what I have, but I think that Butler and Hayward would leave them little chance of having a respectable front court rotation.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I think you mean the 21 Sixers pick won't mean much, but next year's Lakers pick should certainly be valuable.
Of course but in terms of value you have to give up something to get the #1 pick. I'd trade that potential top 5 pick for Fultz and a year of him playing any day.

 
^Same deal for George?

Looking at those salaries, Horford's salary definitely does not seem like good value.

 
What are the Sixers going to do with all their cap space? They're gonna need some decent players when Embiid and Simmons are watching from the sidelines. KCP seems like a nice fit. Maybe Otto Porter? Seems like they would be the perfect team to try to max out a restricted free agent. They have boats of money, and need some talent that could grow with the team.

 
What are the Sixers going to do with all their cap space? They're gonna need some decent players when Embiid and Simmons are watching from the sidelines. KCP seems like a nice fit. Maybe Otto Porter? Seems like they would be the perfect team to try to max out a restricted free agent. They have boats of money, and need some talent that could grow with the team.
Yes, those are great ideas, especially KCP, though everyone says it's a lock he will be re-signed.  Porter slightly less of a lock and a little more of a concern, I think.

If they can't get Fultz, Holiday or Hill seem to make the most sense to me.

edit: the other thing is that they are going to have to pay up for Covington and Embiid starting next year, so it will be interesting to see how they manage it.

edit again: although I guess Embiid's cap hold is only $12 or $15 million and Covington is only like $3 million?  Is that right?  Embiid's salary this year will be $6.1 million and Covington will be $1.5.

 
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tommyGunZ said:
Why would Ainge give away all these picks for Butler instead of simply signing Hayward? 
Because Butler is way better then handing out whatever Hayward would cost. Plus the picks I believe wouldn't be the C's it'd be picks acquired from others. 

 
Just Win Baby said:
Suppose the trade is #1 to PHI for #3 and 2018 Lakers 1st.

If I haven't missed something, I think that means BOS owns the following:

2017 #3
2017 #37
2017 #53
2017 #56
2018 Nets 1st
2018 Lakers 1st
2018 Celtics 1st
2019 Celtics 1st
2019 Memphis 1st
2019 Clippers 1st
2019 Pistons 2nd
2020 Celtics 1st
2020 Heat 2nd
2020 Celtics 2nd

That is a lot of draft capital. Assuming they use the #3 pick this year for themselves, what would it take as a combo of other picks and players for them to trade for Butler?

Could they sign Hayward, draft at #3, and still fit Butler and their redshirt Euro players under the cap rules? What players would they have to drop/move to do that?

If not, would trading back to #4 or #5 make a difference?

I can't find a better source than this thread for assimilating all of the possibilities.
At least the LA Pick and Possible the Nets pick I think Chic would want another 1st and maybe a 2nd. If AInge wants to include players gladly take Smart and Olynk off his hands. 

No they can't do both without dumping significant other players. 

If Ainge feels his guy will be there at 4-5 Id see no reason why he wouldn't trade back again and get even more picks. 

 
Because Butler is way better then handing out whatever Hayward would cost. Plus the picks I believe wouldn't be the C's it'd be picks acquired from others. 
There doesn't seem to be much to the Butler rumors. I haven't seen any connection to Butler in this trade to any of the national writers. Local Chicago writers don't think Butler is going to be traded, and most believe they will bring back Rondo, Wade, Butler, Mirotic and just define more consistent playing time for their younger players. In other words, if you're a Bulls fan, make the playoffs if everything goes perfectly, but get knocked out quickly.

Trading for Butler comes with 2 more years (I believe) of a modest star deal, but he could be in line for a supermax deal if he lands in the all NBA team (top 3) again so there has been some conversation about whether Chicago will want to pay him $35M+ on a new deal in a few seasons given the amount of minutes he is playing, his age and the current shape of the Bulls. Hayward is a really good player, they may be able to do both if they really wanted to, but if they had to pick one, it probably comes down to giving Hayward a monster deal now for a lesser player than Butler is, and keeping these picks for more young talent.

 
There doesn't seem to be much to the Butler rumors. I haven't seen any connection to Butler in this trade to any of the national writers. Local Chicago writers don't think Butler is going to be traded, and most believe they will bring back Rondo, Wade, Butler, Mirotic and just define more consistent playing time for their younger players. In other words, if you're a Bulls fan, make the playoffs if everything goes perfectly, but get knocked out quickly.

Trading for Butler comes with 2 more years (I believe) of a modest star deal, but he could be in line for a supermax deal if he lands in the all NBA team (top 3) again so there has been some conversation about whether Chicago will want to pay him $35M+ on a new deal in a few seasons given the amount of minutes he is playing, his age and the current shape of the Bulls. Hayward is a really good player, they may be able to do both if they really wanted to, but if they had to pick one, it probably comes down to giving Hayward a monster deal now for a lesser player than Butler is, and keeping these picks for more young talent.
That's true. The thing with Chicago those is would they do a deal or are looking to trade him now. Any rumors with Okafor I remember was speculated leaked by Sixers or beat writers trying to drum up interest on him and Chi was never at all interested in him. 

That makes sense in long term plans. Short term I'd rather trade the Picks for a better player then end up with Hayward and things go south he becomes a liability contract wise. 

 
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA  8m8 minutes ago
 Sixers needed Fultz workout/meeting to complete deal w/ Celtics and, as expected, sides have deal for No. 1 pick. Trade call planned Monday.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA  6m6 minutes ago
Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski
Fultz wouldn't have gone into workout with No. 3 without assurance trade was agreed upon. Sides have been locked into deal for 24 hours.

 
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA  1m1 minute ago

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Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Lakers had interest in pursuing a deal for No. 1 pick/Fultz, but Sixers ability to potentially deliver 3 FRP's in deal too much to overcome.

 
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA  1m1 minute ago

More

Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Lakers had interest in pursuing a deal for No. 1 pick/Fultz, but Sixers ability to potentially deliver 3 FRP's in deal too much to overcome.
Rumor is its this years #3, Lakers #1 in '18 and Celtics choice of Phillys #1 in either of next two drafts (18/19). 

Apparently Sixers wanted Celts to decide on 18 or 19 and Celtics said it wasnt a big enough issue to stop the trade from proceeding. And would be willing to pick a particular year with a just li'l more sweetener from Philly.

*bolded Rumor.

 
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Rumor is its this years #3, Lakers #1 in '18 and Celtics choice of Phillys #1 in either of next two drafts (18/19). 

Apparently Sixers wanted Celts to decide on 18 or 19 and Celtics said it wasnt a big enough issue to stop the trade from proceeding. And would be willing to pick a particular year with a just li'l more sweetener from Philly.

*bolded Rumor.
wheres this rumor from? 

 
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA  10m10 minutes ago
 Sources: For top pick, Sixers planning to send Celtics '17 No. 3 overall pick, '18 FRP (via LA) and '19 FRP (via Kings) - w/ protections.

 
I'm not a big fan of UW basketball nor seen a lot of Fultz but this seems like way too much for Fultz who I don't see as a #1 overall. Plus if Ainge didn't want the guy I'd back off myself. 

 
Keith Smith‏Verified account @KeithSmithNBA  7m7 minutes ago

Multiple NBA sources believe Celtics are working on another deal. One told me: "Who cares about the protections? They aren't keeping them."

 
Rumor is its this years #3, Lakers #1 in '18 and Celtics choice of Phillys #1 in either of next two drafts (18/19). 

Apparently Sixers wanted Celts to decide on 18 or 19 and Celtics said it wasnt a big enough issue to stop the trade from proceeding. And would be willing to pick a particular year with a just li'l more sweetener from Philly.

*bolded Rumor.
The third pick is the Kings' 2019. Wonder what the protections are. 

 
Keith Smith‏Verified account @KeithSmithNBA  18m18 minutes ago

Keith Smith Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Protecting another team's pick is a new rule. Have to see the protections to fully grasp the deal, but this is an impressive haul for Boston

 
I'm not a big fan of UW basketball nor seen a lot of Fultz but this seems like way too much for Fultz who I don't see as a #1 overall. Plus if Ainge didn't want the guy I'd back off myself. 
You can't look at the price tag here. Sixers had assets and they identified Fultz as the guy that fits them best right now. They probably didn't think any potential players in the years to come would fit their team as well or they didn't want to wait that long for it to all come together. 

Sixers may have overpaid but that's only because Hinkie had accumulated all those picks for this type of situation. Some times to get what you want you have to overpay.  Hinkie made that possible.

 
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If the Bulls can get #3 plus a future pick likely in the lottery for Butler, they need to do it. They're stuck in mediocrity hell right now.

 
thecatch said:
That makes no sense. The other team they are dealing with (if any) will care. 
Bobby Marks‏Verified account @BobbyMarks42  8m8 minutes ago

The league changed the rules last July allowing teams to put protection on unprotected picks they had received in a previous trade.

Example: PHI can protect the Lakers pick top 2. If BOS doesn't receive that pick, PHI would send their own 2018 first.

Make sense now? Basically if Bos gives up a pick they acquired from another team and protect it somehow and it doesn't go over then Bos has to send their own pick that same year instead. 

 
You can't look at the price tag here. Sixers had assets and they identified Fultz as the guy that fits them best right now. They probably didn't think any potential players in the years to come would fit their team as well or they didn't want to wait that long for it to all come together. 

Sixers may have overpaid but that's only because Hinkie had accumulated all those picks for this type of situation. Some times to get what you want you have to overpay.  Hinkie made that possible.
If I'm a Sixers fan I'd much rather go get an established star rather then a maybe player. It's a huge risk to trade all of that for potential that could be another Anthony Bennet. I'd rather take a Star if I'm in the Sixers spot. They have their core they just need that star now. 

 
Bobby Marks‏Verified account @BobbyMarks42  8m8 minutes ago

The league changed the rules last July allowing teams to put protection on unprotected picks they had received in a previous trade.

Example: PHI can protect the Lakers pick top 2. If BOS doesn't receive that pick, PHI would send their own 2018 first.

Make sense now? Basically if Bos gives up a pick they acquired from another team and protect it somehow and it doesn't go over then Bos has to send their own pick that same year instead. 
No, you missed the point. Boston cares about the protection because it affects the value of the asset, and the other team they are dealing with will care about the value of the asset. 

 
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