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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)

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while we are jumping into off-season talk (anything better than GOAT talk), i am curious what Mitchell's success will do for teams drafting. All signs point to Donovan being a stud, always curious what teams and scouts miss with prospects. some were real high on Mitchell pre-draft

 
modogg said:
there are quite a few articles out there that can shine some dreary days for the Sixers. i remember the Barkley deal clear as day, that trade was so bad in so many ways
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It was like when the Bruins traded Joe Thornton...the second you saw it you knew it was an awful trade...

 
Boston said:
I love your passion Modogg but you are so jaded with anything Boston...you are way off on Brown and Tatum...way off...they are #3 picks in the draft (and Tatum probably should have been #1) who were projected to be stars coming out of high school...they are not over-achieving players that Stevens is getting the best out of...they are top-shelf talents in a great situation...if Philly doesn't get a Lebron or a Leonard once the C's get Kyrie and Hayward back the gap between these teams is going to get bigger not smaller...add in the Kings pick next year and you have a team set up for the short and long term (Kyrie's knee God willing)... 
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But the sixers will get LeBron or Leonard.  Book it

 
need2know said:
But the sixers will get LeBron or Leonard.  Book it
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If they do so it obviously changes things...LeBron is just a signing but I don't see how they get Leonard...if Embiid or Simmons are not included (and they won't) what is the deal that the Spurs would want...I don't see a deal with Philly that makes any sense for them...

 
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Boston said:
If they so it obviously changes things...LeBron is just a signing but I don't see how they get Leonard...if Embiid or Simmons are not included (and they won't) what is the deal that the Spurs would want...I don't see a deal with Philly that makes any sense for them...
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People keep talking about Leonard to Philly here and I don't see it either. Collangelo would have to give up at least Fultz, Saric and a first (Lakers/Kings pick). Since he bet everything on Fultz, I can't see that happening.

I'd say either LeBron or George come here. It's possible they could get both. They have the cap space.

 
Insein said:
People keep talking about Leonard to Philly here and I don't see it either. Collangelo would have to give up at least Fultz, Saric and a first (Lakers/Kings pick). Since he bet everything on Fultz, I can't see that happening.

I'd say either LeBron or George come here. It's possible they could get both. They have the cap space.
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And I don’t see why The Spurs would want that deal...Way too much downside and other teams can definitely offer more...they could destroy their franchise with that deal...right now Fultz has way too many issues for the Spurs to be dealing their franchise player for him...if they can get LeBron  (obviously a very big if) and get a second piece like George that would definitely change the landscape of the NBA...

 
Boston said:
And I don’t see why The Spurs would want that deal...Way too much downside and other teams can definitely offer more...they could destroy their franchise with that deal...right now Fultz has way too many issues for the Spurs to be dealing their franchise player for him...if they can get LeBron  (obviously a very big if) and get a second piece like George that would definitely change the landscape of the NBA...
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Spurs might be dealing from weakness in that teams know Leonard wants out and it's his last year. They might not be able to get what he's worth. But yes I agree they could probably get a better deal somewhere else. 

 
Insein said:
Spurs might be dealing from weakness in that teams know Leonard wants out and it's his last year. They might not be able to get what he's worth. But yes I agree they could probably get a better deal somewhere else. 
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You don’t get many chances to get a player like Leonard at his age...the Spurs are gonna get a big haul if they decide to deal him...there will be no discount...no one is gonna pull anything over on that franchise...

 
Boston said:
You don’t get many chances to get a player like Leonard at his age...the Spurs are gonna get a big haul if they decide to deal him...there will be no discount...no one is gonna pull anything over on that franchise...
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Then they run the risk of getting nothing for him. Teams might say I can't afford that. I'll wait for his free agency next off season.

 
Kawhii for Fultz, Saric and the 10th? :lmao:  Come on. Fultz wouldn’t even be a first round pick in next month’s draft at this point. 

 
Insein said:
Then they run the risk of getting nothing for him. Teams might say I can't afford that. I'll wait for his free agency next off season.
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They are too good of a franchise to panic...someone will step up...Leonard is an elite player...they are not the Kings...

 
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Capella said:
Kawhii for Fultz, Saric and the 10th? :lmao:  Come on. Fultz wouldn’t even be a first round pick in next month’s draft at this point. 
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Talk radio trades..."hi this is Johnny from Malden, first time long time...I think the Celtics should offer Baynes, Yabusele, Larkin, Nader, Kadeem Bird and 4 second round picks for Kawhi...why wouldn't the Spurs do it...they get 9 guys and we only get 1...the more I look at it I think it is the Celtics who are taking the risk" 

 
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Capella said:
Kawhii for Fultz, Saric and the 10th? :lmao:  Come on. Fultz wouldn’t even be a first round pick in next month’s draft at this point. 
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I wouldn't take it either. It's why I don't see Kawhi coming to Philly. This year at least. Maybe free agency in 2019.

 
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Boston said:
You don’t get many chances to get a player like Leonard at his age...the Spurs are gonna get a big haul if they decide to deal him...there will be no discount...no one is gonna pull anything over on that franchise...
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Yeah but he's doesn't want to stay on the Spurs and everyone knows it.  And he seems to be a bit of a head case so it's not like there is no risk involved

 
Insein said:
People keep talking about Leonard to Philly here and I don't see it either. Collangelo would have to give up at least Fultz, Saric and a first (Lakers/Kings pick). Since he bet everything on Fultz, I can't see that happening.
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Covington would have to be in the deal too for salaries to work. 

 
need2know said:
Yeah but he's doesn't want to stay on the Spurs and everyone knows it.  And he seems to be a bit of a head case so it's not like there is no risk involved
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I am not ready to call him a head case yet. This is the 1st time anything like this has ever happened with him and no one seems to know the whole story.  

 
Saw this article this morning proclaiming Dwane Casey as the Coaches' Association Coach of the Year.  While that isn't too surprising, what I did find surprising was this:  "The other seven coaches to receive votes from their peers were Philadelphia's Brett Brown, Houston's Mike D'Antoni, Indiana's Nate McMillan, San Antonio's Gregg Popovich, Utah's Quin Snyder, Portland's Terry Stotts and the Los Angeles Clippers' Doc Rivers."

Is there something I'm missing where the rest of the league's coaches don't respect Stevens or something?  He may not win the NBA Coach of the Year award, but to not even receive a vote from his peers seems odd.  Especially considering someone voted for Doc Rivers.

 
let us never forget Cincinnatus Powell of the ABA

"There doesn't appear to be any sure fire way to stop Powell," Babe McCarthy of Memphis Pros once said, "at least nothing that wouldn't get you thrown out of the game."  

 
Jayrod said:
Saw this article this morning proclaiming Dwane Casey as the Coaches' Association Coach of the Year.  While that isn't too surprising, what I did find surprising was this:  "The other seven coaches to receive votes from their peers were Philadelphia's Brett Brown, Houston's Mike D'Antoni, Indiana's Nate McMillan, San Antonio's Gregg Popovich, Utah's Quin Snyder, Portland's Terry Stotts and the Los Angeles Clippers' Doc Rivers."

Is there something I'm missing where the rest of the league's coaches don't respect Stevens or something?  He may not win the NBA Coach of the Year award, but to not even receive a vote from his peers seems odd.  Especially considering someone voted for Doc Rivers.
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Who cares? I guess not being a Bostonian, you're not as prepared for realdeal coaching geniuses. We went thru this up here already with Belichick. The cheater, betrayer of the Giants, miserable cur. Title, title, title.....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...title, oh and.......title. Folks said it was Duncan, not Pop, in SA til Duncan got old and the Spurs stayed great. Just a thang - dont matter.

ETA: That said, the era of Belichicks & Popoviches may be going away, with quasi-revolts in both franchises in reaction to the authoritarianism of both coaches. Boston's lucky it has the new kind of thinker/leader who gets players to keep their identity but buy in to a team concept. There'll be all sorts of folk minimizing Stevens on one hand and trying to get themselves one on the other

 
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wikkidpissah said:
Who cares? I guess not being a Bostonian, you're not as prepared for realdeal coaching geniuses. We went thru this up here already with Belichick. The cheater, betrayer of the Giants, miserable cur. Title, title, title.....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...title, oh and.......title. Folks said it was Duncan, not Pop, in SA til Duncan got old and the Spurs stayed great. Just a thang - dont matter.

ETA: That said, the era of Belichicks & Popoviches may be going away, with quasi-revolts in both franchises in reaction to the authoritarianism of both coaches. Boston's lucky it has the new kind of thinker/leader who gets players to keep their identity but buy in to a team concept. There'll be all sorts of folk minimizing Stevens on one hand and trying to get themselves one on the other
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I wonder if Stevens is seen as an outsider or something.  Coaches universally have said nothing but great things about him from what I have read which is why it surprised me to see him not even receive a single vote.

He never was an assistant for or with any of the other guys in the league and never worked for an NBA team prior to being a head coach.  I wonder if it is just that he isn't part of "the club" or something.

 
Jayrod said:
Saw this article this morning proclaiming Dwane Casey as the Coaches' Association Coach of the Year.  While that isn't too surprising, what I did find surprising was this:  "The other seven coaches to receive votes from their peers were Philadelphia's Brett Brown, Houston's Mike D'Antoni, Indiana's Nate McMillan, San Antonio's Gregg Popovich, Utah's Quin Snyder, Portland's Terry Stotts and the Los Angeles Clippers' Doc Rivers."

Is there something I'm missing where the rest of the league's coaches don't respect Stevens or something?  He may not win the NBA Coach of the Year award, but to not even receive a vote from his peers seems odd.  Especially considering someone voted for Doc Rivers.
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Who cares? It is all meaningless and as a Celtics fan I’m quite happy they have Stevens. I don’t care and I doubt he does about receiving accolades.

Decent chance Doc voted for himself.

 
Jayrod said:
I wonder if Stevens is seen as an outsider or something.  Coaches universally have said nothing but great things about him from what I have read which is why it surprised me to see him not even receive a single vote.

He never was an assistant for or with any of the other guys in the league and never worked for an NBA team prior to being a head coach.  I wonder if it is just that he isn't part of "the club" or something.
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They dont know how he's doing what he's doing. Hell, there's some NFL coaches who've been shaking their heads for 15 yrs over BB but STILL dunno what an algorithim is

 
Jayrod said:
Saw this article this morning proclaiming Dwane Casey as the Coaches' Association Coach of the Year.  While that isn't too surprising, what I did find surprising was this:  "The other seven coaches to receive votes from their peers were Philadelphia's Brett Brown, Houston's Mike D'Antoni, Indiana's Nate McMillan, San Antonio's Gregg Popovich, Utah's Quin Snyder, Portland's Terry Stotts and the Los Angeles Clippers' Doc Rivers."

Is there something I'm missing where the rest of the league's coaches don't respect Stevens or something?  He may not win the NBA Coach of the Year award, but to not even receive a vote from his peers seems odd.  Especially considering someone voted for Doc Rivers.
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Hopefully this forces Stevens to quit

 
Jayrod said:
Saw this article this morning proclaiming Dwane Casey as the Coaches' Association Coach of the Year.  While that isn't too surprising, what I did find surprising was this:  "The other seven coaches to receive votes from their peers were Philadelphia's Brett Brown, Houston's Mike D'Antoni, Indiana's Nate McMillan, San Antonio's Gregg Popovich, Utah's Quin Snyder, Portland's Terry Stotts and the Los Angeles Clippers' Doc Rivers."

Is there something I'm missing where the rest of the league's coaches don't respect Stevens or something?  He may not win the NBA Coach of the Year award, but to not even receive a vote from his peers seems odd.  Especially considering someone voted for Doc Rivers.
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How dare they forget your man! 

Just kidding my friend, I agree with you, Stephen’s should be getting some coach of the year love! 

 
Jayrod said:
Saw this article this morning proclaiming Dwane Casey as the Coaches' Association Coach of the Year.  While that isn't too surprising, what I did find surprising was this:  "The other seven coaches to receive votes from their peers were Philadelphia's Brett Brown, Houston's Mike D'Antoni, Indiana's Nate McMillan, San Antonio's Gregg Popovich, Utah's Quin Snyder, Portland's Terry Stotts and the Los Angeles Clippers' Doc Rivers."

Is there something I'm missing where the rest of the league's coaches don't respect Stevens or something?  He may not win the NBA Coach of the Year award, but to not even receive a vote from his peers seems odd.  Especially considering someone voted for Doc Rivers.
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It's about who improved the most usually for these things. Otherwise Bellichek would win every year in NFL.

 
Insein said:
It's about who improved the most usually for these things. Otherwise Bellichek would win every year in NFL.
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:no:  Big Balls Doug would have something to say if they wanted to give to BB this past year. I still think Belicheck is having nightmares about Doug and thinking of how he needs to cheat to stand a chance against the Eagles if the Pats can put together a team that can make it to the SB again

 
trader jake said:
Kyrie made his "free agency" choice when he threatened to have surgery if the Cavs didn't trade him.

Good point on the lack of ball handling by some of the Sixers.  Against Simmons I don't believe laying back makes much sense though.  His shot is bad, but play that far off him and it serves as a runway for his athleticism toward the rim.

Brown made the right call to bench Covington for McConnell tonight.  TJ has brought the fight to the Celtics and Covington got in quick foul trouble again...he's just letting his poor outside shooting effect the rest of his game (especially defensive focus).
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They ran 1 pick and roll with Redick and Embiid which worked, and then the 2 attempted alley oops with Simmons-Embiid, 1 successful (if not a a goaltend...) and 1 with the pass airballed.  Will be interesting to see if they try a little more.

 
What about this idea to combat tanking in the NBA.  I drew inspiration from soccer and relegation.  Obviously you cant send the Kings to NCAA but what if you punished teams for finishing in the bottom 4?   If you finish in the bottom 4 the following year you are not eligible for playoffs.  It could be cumulative up to 3 year ban to stop the any future "process" attempts.  You would still have draft lottery and maybe put less weight in draft position making it even less of an incentive to finish with worse record. 

 
Well, Casey did blow a good thing there - his Gm1 4th Q was as shameful a job of coaching as anything Brett Brown has not come up with - but he might have been semi-doomed anyway. The upgrade of his team's '17-8 performance was based largely on his 2nd unit (VV, Delon Wright, the way-underused Poeltl the Turtle) keeping a separate but equal pressure on the opposition as the Lowry,/DDR,/JV starting unit. Doing fine widdit for half a game, 4th Q panic, scrapped the rotation, then scrambled VV into the first team where he couldnt be a sparkplug with Lowry/DDR owning the ball. Then not stopping DDR & Ibaka from playing sulkball  - pretty bad.

 
simmonjm said:
What about this idea to combat tanking in the NBA.  I drew inspiration from soccer and relegation.  Obviously you cant send the Kings to NCAA but what if you punished teams for finishing in the bottom 4?   If you finish in the bottom 4 the following year you are not eligible for playoffs.  It could be cumulative up to 3 year ban to stop the any future "process" attempts.  You would still have draft lottery and maybe put less weight in draft position making it even less of an incentive to finish with worse record. 
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I think the best way to combat tanking would be to have a loser draft before the season starts.  That way your draft pick isn't tied to your performance the current year.

 
modogg said:
here is the article I was thinking of. I think you present a better argument, but figured would post it anyway:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/kawhi-and-the-emerging-trend-of-pre-agency/ar-AAwTqZu?ocid=ientp
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Very interesting article...it has been coming for awhile but it is going to get to the point where there are only about 10-12 teams that the stars want to play for...this attitude is what makes the Knicks being so bad truly amazing...it is a franchise that in theory the stars would love to play for...maybe over any other one but they have figured out a way to make sure they are bad every year and not be a serious suitor for any of the high-end talent...they really don’t get enough credit for how dysfunctional they are...

 
simmonjm said:
What about this idea to combat tanking in the NBA.  I drew inspiration from soccer and relegation.  Obviously you cant send the Kings to NCAA but what if you punished teams for finishing in the bottom 4?   If you finish in the bottom 4 the following year you are not eligible for playoffs.  It could be cumulative up to 3 year ban to stop the any future "process" attempts.  You would still have draft lottery and maybe put less weight in draft position making it even less of an incentive to finish with worse record. 
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Voulgaris suggested that all non-playoff teams get equal chances in the draft lottery.  

I agree something needs to be done.  The last month of the NBA season is garbage.

 
I still think the 76ers have a chance here. It's all predicated on Embiid and Simmons finding a way to assert their superior skills in the face of Stevens's scheme though. I'd like to see the kids figure it out, maybe that happens next year.

 
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