2018 Elections Thread (2 Viewers)

[Leroy Green]

Illegal immigration doesn't affect hardly anyone very much. It's a giant boogeyman to right leaning voters.

Really? I don't see the children of illegal immigrants filling up schools in middle class and wealthy areas. Do you? 

 

[Fan of Charles McCoy]

Illegal immigration doesn't affect hardly anyone very much. It's a giant boogeyman to right leaning voters.

This is correct. Illegal/undocumented immigrants are not taking jobs away from citizens. They are detastling corn, picking lettuce, laying sod, and performing other labor jobs that nobody else will do. Without them, costs would rise for pretty much everything in the grocery store, not to mention the cost of landscaping, housing would rise as well. The GOP ani-immigrant rhetoric and policies are actively making this country worse off.

 

[roadkill1292]

Really? I don't see the children of illegal immigrants filling up schools in middle class and wealthy areas. Do you? 

You're gonna have to make a better point than this to generate a boogeyman that people can take seriously.

 

[mcintyre1]

Really? I don't see the children of illegal immigrants filling up schools in middle class and wealthy areas. Do you? 

"filling up" -- god forbid we educate human beings to provide them a better change of success at life... 

 

[JIslander]

Really? I don't see the children of illegal immigrants filling up schools in middle class and wealthy areas. Do you? 

Wat

 

[the moops]

This is correct. Illegal/undocumented immigrants are not taking jobs away from citizens. They are detastling corn, picking lettuce, laying sod, and performing other labor jobs that nobody else will do. Without them, costs would rise for pretty much everything in the grocery store, not to mention the cost of landscaping, housing would rise as well. The GOP ani-immigrant rhetoric and policies are actively making this country worse off.

@Fan of Charles McCoy

You a fan of the harmonica playing Charlie McCoy? I know that cool cat

 

[TobiasFunke]

Democrats to the Midwest: Welcome Home.

The Wisconsin governor race is probably the state/local race with the biggest national implications, due to Wisconsin's role as a swing state, its GOP-imposed voter suppression and gerrymandering, and Scott Walker's national prominence/anti-union rep.  If they can find a way to knock him off it would be huge.

 

[Fan of Charles McCoy]

@Fan of Charles McCoy

You a fan of the harmonica playing Charlie McCoy? I know that cool cat

Wow that’s awesome!

 

[the moops]

Wow that’s awesome!

If you are ever in Ft Myers, I could give you some inside info as to where to find him singing karaoke. 

 

[Leroy Green]

This is correct. Illegal/undocumented immigrants are not taking jobs away from citizens. They are detastling corn, picking lettuce, laying sod, and performing other labor jobs that nobody else will do. Without them, costs would rise for pretty much everything in the grocery store, not to mention the cost of landscaping, housing would rise as well. The GOP ani-immigrant rhetoric and policies are actively making this country worse off.

So the people that are ok with paying more taxes aren't ok with paying more for goods and services. Ok.  

 

[Fan of Charles McCoy]

If you are ever in Ft Myers, I could give you some inside info as to where to find him singing karaoke. 

Small world. My mom lives in Naples so we fly into Ft Myers once or twice a year. I’ll definitely reach out, thanks man.

 

[Leroy Green]

"filling up" -- god forbid we educate human beings to provide them a better change of success at life... 

Thats fine. If they are here we should.  But the burden of educating them is not shared fairly across the economic spectrum. They end up in poor and middle class school districts. Please don't deny that. 

 

[Fan of Charles McCoy]

So the people that are ok with paying more taxes aren't ok with paying more for goods and services. Ok.  

Paying more for goods and services for a good reason is fine. An example would be external factors like supply and demand and drought. Racism and xenophobia are not good reasons.

 

[sho nuff]

How would one know if the children are those of illegal immigrants? Do they wear a badge stating as much?

 

[Henry Ford]

Small world. My mom lives in Naples so we fly into Ft Myers once or twice a year. I’ll definitely reach out, thanks man.

Wait, I have family in Naples, too.  

CHARLIE MCCOY KARAOKE CORNHOLE!

 

[TobiasFunke]

Thats fine. If they are here we should.  But the burden of educating them is not shared fairly across the economic spectrum. They end up in poor and middle class school districts. Please don't deny that. 

More than anything they disproportionately end up in urban school districts.

Not coincidentally, voters in those urban areas overwhelmingly reject the President's hard line immigration policies. If those of us who actually live in and near immigrant- heavy communities are willing to accept these people with open arms, maybe the rest of America should stop falling for such obvious fearmongering.

 

[[scooter]]

"filling up" -- god forbid we educate human beings to provide them a better change of success at life... 

Thats fine. If they are here we should.  But the burden of educating them is not shared fairly across the economic spectrum. They end up in poor and middle class school districts. Please don't deny that. 

The cheap immigrant labor leads to higher profits and higher pay for the white citizens. It's called trickle down and it's a cornerstone of Republican politics.

If you don't have faith in the trickle down concept then you might want to look into changing your political affiliation.

 

[Leroy Green]

More than anything they disproportionately end up in urban school districts.

Not coincidentally, voters in those urban areas overwhelmingly reject the President's hard line immigration policies. If those of us who actually live in and near immigrant- heavy communities are willing to accept these people with open arms, maybe the rest of America should stop falling for such obvious fearmongering.

Right. And all areas of our cities are the same. Rich people living right next to poor people. Happens all the time. I bet south central la schools have plenty of upper class kids attending them. 

 

[Leroy Green]

The cheap immigrant labor leads to higher profits and higher pay for the white citizens. It's called trickle down and it's a cornerstone of Republican politics.

If you don't have faith in the trickle down concept then you might want to look into changing your political affiliation.

I don't adhere to every bit of dogma from one side in my politics.  Neither should you. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Right. And all areas of our cities are the same. Rich people living right next to poor people. Happens all the time. I bet south central la schools have plenty of upper class kids attending them. 

I don't know what your city is like, but New Orleans is like this.

 

[Leroy Green]

I don't know what your city is like, but New Orleans is like this.

That settles it then. Wait, any private schools in the big easy? 

 

[Henry Ford]

That settles it then. Wait, any private schools in the big east? 

Of course, but the real winner school is Lusher.  Everyone wants in to Lusher.  It's public.

 

[Leroy Green]

How would one know if the children are those of illegal immigrants? Do they wear a badge stating as much?

ESL classes would be an accurate indicator. None where you're at? 

 

[Leroy Green]

Of course, but the real winner school is Lusher.  Everyone wants in to Lusher.  It's public.

And I doubt it has many illegals in it. If any. 

 

[Henry Ford]

ESL classes would be an accurate indicator. None where you're at? 

Here's a map of New Orleans neighborhoods with the best school in the city indicated (the science and math magnet school is on the map, too.)

Leonidas is bad.  Also known as "Pigeon Town" or "Pidgin Town" it has always been a poor area with a many people who speak limited English (though that's shifting a bit as Oak Street gets hipper and hipper, it's still the case.) Uptown/Carrollton is the University area with Tulane and Loyola.  Black Pearl has really gone through the roof but used to be really affordable. Broadmoor isn't in the best shape financially.  It really runs the gamut.

 

[Henry Ford]

And I doubt it has many illegals in it. If any. 

Why do you doubt that?

 

[sho nuff]

ESL classes would be an accurate indicator. None where you're at? 

Plenty...that isn’t an indicator of immigration status.

Im highly involved in the middle school (and was in the elementary school too when my kids were there)...your comment section thus far are showing a complete ignorance for thentopic at hand and just claiming look at these kids as a sign of illegal immigration is bigoted at best...

 

[TobiasFunke]

Right. And all areas of our cities are the same. Rich people living right next to poor people. Happens all the time. I bet south central la schools have plenty of upper class kids attending them. 

If you broke down political support within those urban areas by economic factors you'd find opposition to the President and his hardline immigration tactics is stronger in the poorer areas. 

Basically you've gotten your analysis of this exactly wrong from the get-go. Whether you look at it broadly by city/state, or get out a microscope and went precinct by precinct, the bottom line is that the people who live and work with the higher proportions of immigrants (both documented and undocumented) tend to have the most "liberal" perspective on immigration. And it's not particularly close.

 

[Leroy Green]

More than anything they disproportionately end up in urban school districts.

Not coincidentally, voters in those urban areas overwhelmingly reject the President's hard line immigration policies. If those of us who actually live in and near immigrant- heavy communities are willing to accept these people with open arms, maybe the rest of America should stop falling for such obvious fearmongering.

It's funny.  I think to Meryl Streep at that awards show bragging how she went to NJ public schools. Of course leaving out she lived in one of the richest towns in the richest counties in the world. As if her school experience and a kid in Newark or Camden was remotely similar. 

 

[Leroy Green]

If you broke down political support within those urban areas by economic factors you'd find opposition to the President and his hardline immigration tactics is stronger in the poorer areas. 

Basically you've gotten your analysis of this exactly wrong from the get-go. Whether you look at it broadly by city/state, or get out a microscope and went precinct by precinct, the bottom line is that the people who live and work with the higher proportions of immigrants (both documented and undocumented) tend to have the most "liberal" perspective on immigration. And it's not particularly close.

So the help lives near them. Not too near though. Makes sense. But they damn sure ain't going to the same schools. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

It's funny.  I think to Meryl Streep at that awards show bragging how she went to NJ public schools. Of course leaving out she lived in one of the richest towns in the richest counties in the world. As if her school experience and a kid in Newark or Camden was remotely similar. 

Why would you think of a 70 year old woman's anecdotal story when you could easily check and see how people in Newark and Camden voted or what immigration policies they've adopted?  They're both sanctuary cities, for chrissakes.

 

[Leroy Green]

Why would you think of a 70 year old woman's anecdotal story when you could easily check and see how people in Newark and Camden voted or what immigration policies they've adopted?  They're both sanctuary cities, for chrissakes.

I just was pointing out that she is trying to push forth that all public education is equal when in reality it's not even close. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

So the help lives near them. Not too near though. Makes sense. But they damn sure ain't going to the same schools. 

The data is literally precinct by precinct. Do you have any idea how small urban precincts are?  I could throw a baseball into the neighboring precinct in three different directions.

 

[Leroy Green]

Plenty...that isn’t an indicator of immigration status.

Im highly involved in the middle school (and was in the elementary school too when my kids were there)...your comment section thus far are showing a complete ignorance for thentopic at hand and just claiming look at these kids as a sign of illegal immigration is bigoted at best...

So kids not knowing how to speak English is not a likely indicator of their parents immigration status? Not at all. Ok then. 

 

[Leroy Green]

The data is literally precinct by precinct. Do you have any idea how small urban precincts are?  I could throw a baseball into the neighboring precinct in three different directions.

Like I said, they aren't going to the same schools, the topic at hand. I'm well aware of how urban people vote.  But thanks 

 

[TobiasFunke]

I just was pointing out that she is trying to push forth that all public education is equal when in reality it's not even close. 

Nobody said it was, and it's irrelevant to your awful, fraudulent argument given that I've shown repeatedly that the areas of the country that are most welcoming to immigrants (no matter what scale you prefer) are the areas with the most exposure to them.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Like I said, they aren't going to the same schools, the topic at hand. I'm well aware of how urban people vote.  But thanks 

Yes they are. Stop lying.

 

[Leroy Green]

Nobody said it was, and it's irrelevant to your awful, fraudulent argument given that I've shown repeatedly that the areas of the country that are most welcoming to immigrants (no matter what scale you prefer) are the areas with the most exposure to them.

And yet they somehow avoid going to school together. 

 

[Leroy Green]

The Myopia around here is stunning.  

 

[toshiba]

The Myopia around here is stunning.  

It's an interesting thing you are saying there...

 

[[scooter]]

I just was pointing out that she is trying to push forth that all public education is equal when in reality it's not even close. 

So you're saying that public schools which may be in the same community but are separate from each other, are not always equal? Is that the gist of it?

 

[TobiasFunke]

And yet they somehow avoid going to school together. 

No they don't.  They go to school together. I know this both from firsthand knowledge and because I can look at precinct-by-precinct data and see that every neighborhood in urban areas, rich and poor, rejects Trumpism. 

You seem fixated on some dumb stereotype about rich urban/suburban liberals who are shielded from the consequences of their policy preferences. But the undeniable fact is that kids of undocumented have to go to school somewhere, and unless they're being bused from New York City to Kentucky or something their classmates' families overwhelmingly rejected Trump and support sanctuary cities.

If you think I'm wrong, go ahead and find me some precincts in the cities with the highest undocumented immigrant populations that voted for Trump or some other evidence that they support hardline immigration policies. Once you do we can look at their demographics and figure out if they live in the poorest areas or are otherwise likely to be sharing schools with undocumented immigrants. Otherwise I've already provided plenty of evidence that you're dead wrong about this.

 

[joffer]

I had no idea Walker in WI might lose.  that's awesome.

 

[Henry Ford]

I had no idea Walker in WI might lose.  that's awesome.

Evers has been fairly consistently polling over him for some time, but it's a razor margin.

 

[sho nuff]

So kids not knowing how to speak English is not a likely indicator of their parents immigration status? Not at all. Ok then. 

No...kids being in an ESL class is not a way to tell if they are illegal immigrants or the children of illegal immigrants.  Just as when you stated that 

Really? I don't see the children of illegal immigrants filling up schools in middle class and wealthy areas. Do you? 

Inferring by looking, you can tell if children are those of illegal immigrants.

Both are pretty bad statements thus far...not sure why you keep digging deeper into that hole...

 

[Leroy Green]

No...kids being in an ESL class is not a way to tell if they are illegal immigrants or the children of illegal immigrants.  Just as when you stated that 

Inferring by looking, you can tell if children are those of illegal immigrants.

Both are pretty bad statements thus far...not sure why you keep digging deeper into that hole...

Sure. Kids born in poor countries that come here speak fluent English all the time. No need for them to be in ESL classes. 

 

[sho nuff]

Sure. Kids born in poor countries that come here speak fluent English all the time. No need for them to be in ESL classes. 

So...still just shoveling deeper...nobody is making an argument like what you are going with here.  You made the claim that just looking at the schools you can see kids of illegals (or inferred it)...and then by looking at ESL classes you can tell their parents immigration status.

Try backing up such a statement with something factual rather than continuing to make pretty disgusting and bigoted claims.

also...this is a thread on the current elections coming up...so no need to keep muddying it up with your statements on immigration status by looking at kids.

 

[msommer]

So kids not knowing how to speak English is not a likely indicator of their parents immigration status? Not at all. Ok then. 

My kids speak English very well. If they lived in the US they would be immigrants. I can say the same for most of their contemporaries from here. Just FYI

 

[Leroy Green]

So...still just shoveling deeper...nobody is making an argument like what you are going with here.  You made the claim that just looking at the schools you can see kids of illegals (or inferred it)...and then by looking at ESL classes you can tell their parents immigration status.

Try backing up such a statement with something factual rather than continuing to make pretty disgusting and bigoted claims.

also...this is a thread on the current elections coming up...so no need to keep muddying it up with your statements on immigration status by looking at kids.

When did I say "just looking"? I said it was an indicator. You're obviously dishonestly quoting me to bolster your argument. Not cool. 

 

[Leroy Green]

My kids speak English very well. If they lived in the US they would be immigrants. I can say the same for most of their contemporaries from here. Just FYI

And I said kids from poor countries. Does that apply to you?