2019 NCAA Tourney Thread: Nation has to watch Virginia again (1 Viewer)

[Johnny Rock]

1. Once again college basketball proves it’s better than the NBA. 

2. If the NBA played defense like these two teams maybe the NBA would have a chance to be the better product. These kids hit shots under pressure AND played hard on D. Who knew?

 

 it's not like guys in the NBA are the best offensive players in the world or anything.  

It’s called EFFORT. Most fat cats in the NBA now don’t have time for that, just raining 3’s. 

We all know they have the greatest athletes and of course they’re better than college players; they’re the best of the best. But the cumulative product called games are not better. 

Can you imagine NCAA basketball now if all the teams kept players through their senior seasons? It would be unbelievable.

 

[zamboni]

Way off topic, but this reminded me of something.  At the start of the tourney, a local news caster (not a sports anchor) was talking about the Big Dance and she said "Not since the days of the Flying Mamma Jammas has..."  I had to rewind the DVR just to make sure I didn't mishear it.  But, nope.  That's what she said.  

I can only assume "Phi Slama Jama" came up on the teleprompter and she thought it was a typo or something.  But she powered through it like a champ.  

She's a bad mama jama. Hope she’s built and stacked, too.

 

[mr. furley]

It’s called EFFORT. Most fat cats in the NBA now don’t have time for that, just raining 3’s. 

We all know they have the greatest athletes and of course they’re better than college players; they’re the best of the best. But the cumulative product called games are not better. 

Can you imagine NCAA basketball now if all the teams kept players through their senior seasons? It would be unbelievable.

as much as i agree that defense in the NBA can be lacking.. they do play almost 100 games a year when including pre-season. more if you count the playoffs. plus some of these guys played summer league.. or in international competitions.. plus they're older.

it's tiring to grind on D every night like that. especially for that many minutes & on back to backs,etc.

 

[Scoresman]

You and I have had this convo before, GB.  I don't think we need to get into it again. 

Right, but both I and Gonzaga proved you wrong this year.  

 

[TheIronSheik]

Right, but both I and Gonzaga proved you wrong this year.  

By losing again early?  Even if that's not technically a win for me, GB, it's no more than a push for you.

 

[TobiasFunke]

as much as i agree that defense in the NBA can be lacking.. they do play almost 100 games a year when including pre-season. more if you count the playoffs. plus some of these guys played summer league.. or in international competitions.. plus they're older.

it's tiring to grind on D every night like that. especially for that many minutes & on back to backs,etc.

Also if defenders guarded NBA offensive players with the same in-your-face aggressiveness college defenders often employ they would get absolutely roasted. Blow-bys and lobs every single possession.  It's the same basic reason they rarely institute a full court press unless they're desperate. If you pressed NBA guards the possession would end in a dunk or a corner three most of the time.

 

[Scoresman]

By losing again early?  Even if that's not technically a win for me, GB, it's no more than a push for you.

In terms of seed expectation, Elite 8 is essentially a push.  One seeds average around 3 wins per tournament.  But your argument was that Gonzaga gets overseeded because they play in the WCC.  Their performance against seed expectations over the last several years paints the complete opposite picture and is actually among the best in NCAA.  

 

[Capella]

Yes it is.  Spoiler Alert:  Golden State wins the championship this year.  Again.

Just because the ncaa plays a dumb (but exciting) one-off system that usually doesn’t reward the best team doesn’t make it a better sport. 

 

[Scoresman]

Just because the ncaa plays a dumb (but exciting) one-off system that usually doesn’t reward the best team doesn’t make it a better sport. 

The "exciting" part you put in parenthesis is pretty much the most important thing for me.  The NCAA tournament is the best thing in sports hands down outside of the World Cup.  

 

[Capella]

The "exciting" part you put in parenthesis is pretty much the most important thing for me.  The NCAA tournament is the best thing in sports hands down outside of the World Cup.  

Of course it is. But it’s a really dumb way to crown a champ. 

 

[Insein]

Do we still have to watch Virginia again?

 

[Scoresman]

Of course it is. But it’s a really dumb way to crown a champ. 

I dont think it's as bad as you think.  Over the last several years, the champ has generally been top 5 in Kenpom if not better.  2014 UConn an obvious outlier here.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

I dont think it's as bad as you think.  Over the last several years, the champ has generally been top 5 in Kenpom if not better.  2014 UConn an obvious outlier here.  

It's pretty bad. The winners are almost very good teams, but they're also almost never the best team. For example, I'm a UNC fan and I believe this year's UNC team was better than the one that won the title in 2017.

The 2017 team won a title it probably didn't "deserve" thanks to four very tight wins in the tournament, all of which could have easily gone either way. They actually trailed a mediocre Arkansas team by 5 coming out of the final TV timeout in the second round. I still think Gonzaga was the better team in the 2017 final and would have won if not for their brief two-minute meltdown to open the second half and the refs ruining the game flow for both squads.

This year's team, in contrast, played amazing ball since January, as good as or better than any team in the country, and then got blown out in the Sweet 16 because three guys got the flu.

Neither result seems right.

 

[Nipsey]

Of course it is. But it’s a really dumb way to crown a champ. 

Couldn't disagree more.

 

[Scoresman]

It's pretty bad. The winners are almost very good teams, but they're also almost never the best team. For example, I'm a UNC fan and I believe this year's UNC team was better than the one that won the title in 2017.

The 2017 team won a title it probably didn't "deserve" thanks to four very tight wins in the tournament, all of which could have easily gone either way. They actually trailed a mediocre Arkansas team by 5 coming out of the final TV timeout in the second round. I still think Gonzaga was the better team in the 2017 final and would have won if not for their brief two-minute meltdown to open the second half and the refs ruining the game flow for both squads.

This year's team, in contrast, played amazing ball since January, as good as or better than any team in the country, and then got blown out in the Sweet 16 because three guys got the flu.

Neither result seems right.

Yeah it's not perfect for sure.  But it's pretty rare that a team like UConn comes up out of nowhere and wins the whole thing like in 2014.  It's almost always a top team that takes it.  This year's consensus pre-tourney number 1 team was Virginia and they won.  Same thing last year with Nova.  In 2017, UNC was 3rd in kenpom.  Gonzaga was first, but like you said, the refs took over that game.  

I'd be in favor of each tournament matchup being a best of 7 and having the tournament last until November when it all starts back up again.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

Yeah it's not perfect for sure.  But it's pretty rare that a team like UConn comes up out of nowhere and wins the whole thing like in 2014.  It's almost always a top team that takes it.  This year's consensus pre-tourney number 1 team was Virginia and they won.  Same thing last year with Nova.  In 2017, UNC was 3rd in kenpom.  Gonzaga was first, but like you said, the refs took over that game.  

I'd be in favor of each tournament matchup being a best of 7 and having the tournament last until November when it all starts back up again.  

I'd say the consensus pre-tourney number one this year was Duke, the overall number one who beat this UVA team twice and also won UVA's conference tournament. They got eliminated before the Final Four.

I'm obviously not one to mourn Duke's passing, and there's certainly an argument to be made that Duke wasn't as good after Zion's return as they were before his injury- even with Zion they needed buzzer-beaters to beat UNC in the ACC semis, UCF in the second round and Va Tech in the Sweet 16. But a Final Four without that Duke team doesn't seem like the "correct" result.

I wouldn't want to change it, though. Both formats are imperfect, but basketball fans should be thankful we get a big helping of both formats every spring. No need to dump on one format or the other for their imperfections.

 

[shuke]

Final ESPN bracket standings for the major ranking systems I looked at this year.  

Kenpom:  1,270 points - 97 percentile
Torvik:  1,270 points - 97 percentile
Haslam: 1,330 points - 99 percentile

NET Rankings: 1,240 - 96 percentile

Chalk Bracket: 920 points - 86 percentile
Vegas Futures: 800 points - 73 percentile

First year over the last 5 or 6 I've tracked this where Vegas wasn't on top.  Vegas started out the tournament strong, but Duke getting knocked out and Texas Tech and Auburn advancing far screwed that bracket up.  Pretty much all of the analytics guys had Virginia as the top team so them winning really helped there.  The difference maker for Haslam was that he had Michigan State ranked over Duke pre-tourney and thus correctly picked them in the F4.  It's amazing how many picks you don't have to get right and still be in the 99th percentile.  

Is this based on rankings at the start of the tournament, or does it use updated Kenpom rankings as the games are played?

 

[shuke]

They won 2 championships with Oscar Robertson back in the day.

Incorrect.  They won two straight years after Big O left.  

 

[Scoresman]

Is this based on rankings at the start of the tournament, or does it use updated Kenpom rankings as the games are played?

Start of the tournament.  I fill out the brackets based on the rankings after the last Conference Tournament.  

 

[Politician Spock]

Of course it is. But it’s a really dumb way to crown a champ. 

Being the best team doesn't always result in winning.

As they say.... "that's why they play the games". 

At least the NCAA plays them in basketball.... in football they still have some work to do. Given the 4th seed has won 40% of the time, it's a shame the 5th seed gets left out. 

 

[Capella]

Couldn't disagree more.

Of course not. You’re a Syracuse fan. A crapshoot like this is the only way you could ever hope to celebrate a title in the two big sports. 

 

[Nipsey]

Of course not. You’re a Syracuse fan. A crapshoot like this is the only way you could ever hope to celebrate a title in the two big sports. 

lol @ "crapshoot". Ridiculous.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Of course not. You’re a Syracuse fan. A crapshoot like this is the only way you could ever hope to celebrate a title in the two big sports. 

Or Hakim Warrick threatening refs' families. Either/or.