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2020 Greatest of All Time Sports Draft-Zow wins, Judges still suck (1 Viewer)

7 - 10 points





CANDACE PARKER

Extreme talent and physical gifts who has basically done it all other than a FIBA World Cup.  2 NCAA Championships, 1 Naismath Award (among other college accolades), 2 WNBA MVPS, 1 WNBA Championship, 5 first-team All-WNBA (and 3 seconds), and 2 first-team all-defensive teams (which is really where this list starts to separate).  I had a hard time moving her any higher than this because her career hasn't quite been as consistent as those above her due to injury and personal issues, but her talent is undeniable.

6 - 11 points





MAYA MOORE

Has had a shorter career than Parker but has garnered more awards and accomplishments and just been a relentless freight train of achievement. 2 NCAA Champions, 2 Naismaths and 4 First-Team All-Americans (along with tons of other college awards).  2 Olympic Golds and 2 FIBA World Cups.  8 years in the WNBA with 5 All-WNBA First Team and 2 All-WNBA Second Teams.  2 All-Defense Second Teams.  4 WNBA Championships and 1 MVP.  Won 3  straight Chinese Basketball Association Championships as the only star.  And those are just the major achievements.  Lots of other minor achievements like All-Star GAmes, All-Star MVPs, League Leaders and other overseas championships.  Is taking a year off to work on Social Justice issues.  If she decides to return, she could ultimately be the number 1 player ever.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
7 - 10 points

CANDACE PARKER

Extreme talent and physical gifts who has basically done it all other than a FIBA World Cup.  2 NCAA Championships, 1 Naismath Award (among other college accolades), 2 WNBA MVPS, 1 WNBA Championship, 5 first-team All-WNBA (and 3 seconds), and 2 first-team all-defensive teams (which is really where this list starts to separate).  I had a hard time moving her any higher than this because her career hasn't quite been as consistent as those above her due to injury and personal issues, but her talent is undeniable.

6 - 11 points

MAYA MOORE

Has had a shorter career than Parker but has garnered more awards and accomplishments and just been a relentless freight train of achievement. 2 NCAA Champions, 2 Naismaths and 4 First-Team All-Americans (along with tons of other college awards).  2 Olympic Golds and 2 FIBA World Cups.  8 years in the WNBA with 5 All-WNBA First Team and 2 All-WNBA Second Teams.  2 All-Defense Second Teams.  4 WNBA Championships and 1 MVP.  Won 3  straight Chinese Basketball Association Championships as the only star.  And those are just the major achievements.  Lots of other minor achievements like All-Star GAmes, All-Star MVPs, League Leaders and other overseas championships.  Is taking a year off to work on Social Justice issues.  If she decides to return, she could ultimately be the number 1 player ever.
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This was my thought process as well and thought there was maybe a shot to crack the top 5 with her. 

Good job so far with this difficult category. 

 
I'm back! Forgive the absence; motivation fell off a cliff, as has been the case several times during the quarantine. I won't be very thorough in my descriptions moving forward, as things have stopped seeming as fun and more like work, but at least we'll get it done.

Greatest NFL Moment or Game (cont.)

Next two placements could place anywhere from 1st to 7th really just based on the judge. They land where they do for me because they're both pre-merger, and for whatever reason (aside the obvious one being my age) that has stuck with me as a slight detriment when I evaluated the pro football category. Also, for some reason I feel like if I were actually evaluating whole games instead of these games as "moments," these might place higher. I have odd sensibilities sometimes.

10 points - The Ice Bowl

11 points - The Greatest Game Ever Played

Giving the nod to Johnny U pioneering the two-minute drive plus being the first championship game to go to overtime. I do not happen to share the opinion it is the actual greatest moment of the sport.

12 points - The Merger

  • Why it's top 5 material: it's responsible for the following moments, along with coining the term and creating the pageantry that is the "Super Bowl"
  • Why it's not top 4: it didn't happen on the field
 
Greatest NFL Moment or Game (cont.)

My top 4 have it all - the name, the game and the fame. I won't disagree with anyone too strongly with how they'd rank anything in the top 7, but in my mind these 4 are the clear contenders of what has been selected.

There was one undrafted choice that I think really gives these 4 a run for their money: 28-3. Thankfully I don't have to lose any sleep as it was tucked away into the SB cat.

13 points - The Immaculate Reception

  • Why it's top 4 material: undeniably flukiest play that I can think of, exemplifying anything can happen when there's a live football, happening to a rookie fullback, indicating this Pittsburgh team might be onto something. The video footage looks unreal. How the hell was that game not over?!
  • Why it's not top 3: the dynasty would have to wait. The Steelers lost the next week (where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, many other Not Greatest Moments 😉) to the undefeated Dolphins. There's also a fair bit of controversy, but all available evidence looks on the up-and-up to me, and HEY I'M THE JUDGE HERE.
14 points - The Catch

  • Why it's top 3 material: I submit this as football's entry into the definition of clutch. Montana gets the ball at the 11 with 4:51 left, engineers a masterful 13-play drive to this point, and the 14th is the eponymous game winner. Joe Cool extends the play and finds his man in Dwight Clark, throwing a pass that only the tight end could catch on a 3rd and 3 from the 6-yard line. Clark's leap looks like the scene in Angels in the Outfield when Matthew McConaughey (had NO IDEA that's who that was off top of my head. Whoda thunk...) gets lifted up by his belt loops and floats in the air to make that catch... exactly the same. Yeah. It was sweet. OH AND BY THE WAY THE SAN FRANCISO FORTY-NINERS ACTUALLY WON THE SUPER BOWL THAT YEAR. Great job on finishing the deal for once.
  • Why it's not top 2: this category is so tough! There's only one nitpick I can make, and that's this incredibly great set of circumstances happened in the NFC Championship and not the Super Bowl.
 
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Greatest NFL Moment or Game (cont.)

Here we are, the final two. One is a moment I can remember every detail of, and the other happened a decade and a half before I was born. Much as people glorify the past, I think it's great that intrinsic drama persists in modern competition.

15 points - The Helmet Catch by David Tyree

  • Why it's top 2 material: this happened in the Super Bowl. I've harped on it so much that you had to see this big leapfrog in value coming. The Immaculate Reception looks slightly less probable and The Catch was the actual game-winner, but their greatness didn't play out on the grandest stage. When you throw in the defining moment of NFL parity to the mix, that being Eli Manning and the wildcard New York Giants handing the undefeated New England Patriots their first loss of the season, it elevates the moment further. What did it take to dethrone the Belichick-Brady juggernaut? An act of the football gods, and they acquiesced.
  • Why it isn't the greatest: I had this penciled in as number 1 for a long, long time tbh. But, David Tyree - nobody from nowheresville that did nothing but live in legend after this game - did not win the game when his helmet procured that ball. It took another pass by Eli to Plaxico Burress to slam the door shut on the Pats. Super nitpicky, but such is greatness.
16 points - Broadway Joe makes good on his Guarantee for Super Bowl Three

  • Why it's the greatest: Context. The merger was a couple years beforehand, and the AFL representatives hadn't really been all that competitive in the first two. Enter the New York Jets and their punk quarterback Joe Namath. He's guaranteeing a win over the Colts? They just blew the doors off the Browns thirty-four to zilch-ola in the NFL Championship Game. Well, how about that, the Jets did it. Broadway Joe did it. The AFL had been validated. Namath is thought by many to be the real first "superstar" of the game. The newly merged NFL was here to stay.
 
Ah, pressure relieved on myself. I don't know why I made such a big deal out of it, once I stopped worrying about how I would frame my rankings, the writing flowed freely. I really can't promise the same for NBA and MLB, but maybe that's the key to getting my fingers working.

I'll do my best to not prolong those reveals.

 
Standings after Hagmania ranked NFL Greatest Moment or Game

 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL (ties will be broken by most gold medals, then most total medals)

1 --Ilov80s--428--3--4--1=8

2 --Gally--428--3--1--3=7

3 --Zow--419--3--4--5=12

4 --tuffnutt--416--4--1--6=11

5 --DougB--413--6--2--2=10

6 --AAABatteries--405--3--3--4=10

7 --joffer--403--5--3--1=9

8 --Getzlaf15--398--1--6--4=11 (silver)

9 --Long Ball Larry--392--3--2--4=9 (gold)

10 -otb_lifer--386--0--2--4=6 (bronze)

11 -timschochet--358--3--2--3=8

12 -Jagov--358--2--7--0=9

13 -wikkidpissah--347--2--1--4=7

14 -jwb--344--2--4--2=8

15 -higgins--334--1--1--2=4

16 -Kal El--291--4--2--0=6

 
For NFL teams, I am considering just taking 4 or 5 existing lists and merging them for my final ranking. Being that I am in first, I don’t want to be seen as possibly giving any favoritism. Are people ok with that method?

 
hagmania said:
Ah, pressure relieved on myself. I don't know why I made such a big deal out of it, once I stopped worrying about how I would frame my rankings, the writing flowed freely. I really can't promise the same for NBA and MLB, but maybe that's the key to getting my fingers working.

I'll do my best to not prolong those reveals.
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Thanks...  I can relate to this for sure.  I'm working on College Football teams right now.  You start the process of gathering the data, and rankings start to appear in your head, and then you find more solid data to add, and change them again, and again. And then you get through eight teams of research and you look and you have another eight teams to go. And then, you have to think about the writeups. And then some life stuff gets in the way. It's not easy at all.

 
Ilov80s said:
For NFL teams, I am considering just taking 4 or 5 existing lists and merging them for my final ranking. Being that I am in first, I don’t want to be seen as possibly giving any favoritism. Are people ok with that method?
Click to expand...
I would rather have the judges input involved and not just a bunch of internet lists.  If you have a worry about impartiality just bounce it off @BobbyLayne and/or @Getzlaf15 for a sanity check. 

(Unless of course you rank your team first and mine then use lists that put my team ahead of yours.  I can find some for you if you like..hahah)

 
Gally said:
I would rather have the judges input involved and not just a bunch of internet lists.  If you have a worry about impartiality just bounce it off @BobbyLayne and/or @Getzlaf15 for a sanity check. 

(Unless of course you rank your team first and mine then use lists that put my team ahead of yours.  I can find some for you if you like..hahah)
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Ok, I can use the lists as a guide to make sure I don’t over inflate my squad but I know I like it more than most (hence why I drafted them). 

 
Getzlaf15 said:
Thanks...  I can relate to this for sure.  I'm working on College Football teams right now.  You start the process of gathering the data, and rankings start to appear in your head, and then you find more solid data to add, and change them again, and again. And then you get through eight teams of research and you look and you have another eight teams to go. And then, you have to think about the writeups. And then some life stuff gets in the way. It's not easy at all.
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Judges have been outstanding and very much appreciated.  The obvious work you guys have been putting in is awesome.  I hope the barbs and pokes i send out are taken as good natured and not disheartening as I totally respect the effort and time you guys have been putting in.  I am just having some fun.

This has been a great diversion from what is going on and prompted lots of good conversation and memories.  It's been a long road so far but very much enjoyed and appreciated.

 
Ilov80s said:
Ok, I can use the lists as a guide to make sure I don’t over inflate my squad but I know I like it more than most (hence why I drafted them). 
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I use the lists as a guide in almost all my judgings so far.   Like if I give some CATS a max score of 15, some 12, some 8, then I take like 3-4 lists and the combined ranking of them all i give an 8 or 12 max.   It is a good check on how to rank your own pick.    When I did the SB's. the NE/PHIL was 3rd of 5 of the lists I had. So I felt comfortable with the 3rd I gave it. PM me if you like.   I would like to see you and Zow post yours ASAP.

 
Ilov80s said:
Ok, I can use the lists as a guide to make sure I don’t over inflate my squad but I know I like it more than most (hence why I drafted them). 
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Do you need some lists?  I am sure I can find some good ones for you...…...what team did you pick?  hahaha

 
Ilov80s said:
For NFL teams, I am considering just taking 4 or 5 existing lists and merging them for my final ranking. Being that I am in first, I don’t want to be seen as possibly giving any favoritism. Are people ok with that method?
Click to expand...
So much easier to just go by record...

 
Getzlaf15 said:
I use the lists as a guide in almost all my judgings so far.   Like if I give some CATS a max score of 15, some 12, some 8, then I take like 3-4 lists and the combined ranking of them all i give an 8 or 12 max.   It is a good check on how to rank your own pick.    When I did the SB's. the NE/PHIL was 3rd of 5 of the lists I had. So I felt comfortable with the 3rd I gave it. PM me if you like.   I would like to see you and Zow post yours ASAP.
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I recognize the urgency and doing the best I can. Work has exploded to ~70 hours/week for me. Hoping to maybe complete on Friday. 

 
hagmania said:
Greatest NFL Moment or Game (cont.)

My top 4 have it all - the name, the game and the fame. I won't disagree with anyone too strongly with how they'd rank anything in the top 7, but in my mind these 4 are the clear contenders of what has been selected.

There was one undrafted choice that I think really gives these 4 a run for their money: 28-3. Thankfully I don't have to lose any sleep as it was tucked away into the SB cat.

13 points - The Immaculate Reception

  • Why it's top 4 material: undeniably flukiest play that I can think of, exemplifying anything can happen when there's a live football, happening to a rookie fullback, indicating this Pittsburgh team might be onto something. The video footage looks unreal. How the hell was that game not over?!
  • Why it's not top 3: the dynasty would have to wait. The Steelers lost the next week (where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, many other Not Greatest Moments 😉) to the undefeated Dolphins. There's also a fair bit of controversy, but all available evidence looks on the up-and-up to me, and HEY I'M THE JUDGE HERE.
14 points - The Catch

  • Why it's top 3 material: I submit this as football's entry into the definition of clutch. Montana gets the ball at the 11 with 4:51 left, engineers a masterful 13-play drive to this point, and the 14th is the eponymous game winner. Joe Cool extends the play and finds his man in Dwight Clark, throwing a pass that only the tight end could catch on a 3rd and 3 from the 6-yard line. Clark's leap looks like the scene in Angels in the Outfield when Matthew McConaughey (had NO IDEA that's who that was off top of my head. Whoda thunk...) gets lifted up by his belt loops and floats in the air to make that catch... exactly the same. Yeah. It was sweet. OH AND BY THE WAY THE SAN FRANCISO FORTY-NINERS ACTUALLY WON THE SUPER BOWL THAT YEAR. Great job on finishing the deal for once.
  • Why it's not top 2: this category is so tough! There's only one nitpick I can make, and that's this incredibly great set of circumstances happened in the NFC Championship and not the Super Bowl.
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Oh, weird. :coffee:  

 
Zow said:
Oh, weird. :coffee:  
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They beat a team that didn't deserve to be there if not for an immaculate reception.  Just another inferior team they lucked into playing for the year.  I think this fact knocks the fishies down to #21 now.

 
Gally said:
Judges have been outstanding and very much appreciated.  The obvious work you guys have been putting in is awesome.  I hope the barbs and pokes i send out are taken as good natured and not disheartening as I totally respect the effort and time you guys have been putting in.  I am just having some fun.

This has been a great diversion from what is going on and prompted lots of good conversation and memories.  It's been a long road so far but very much enjoyed and appreciated.
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They are taken in good nature. And they are disheartening.  The researching can be tedious at times and sometimes you need a break for a day or two. Or a week if your Hag  :D

 
NFL Secondary

I could conceivably have come up with my own metric for rating the NFL secondary players but (1) I'm too lazy, and (2) there is already one I trust that exists -- the reference (with explanation) will be listed after all of the picks have been identified.

While I was fine using the reference as a baseline, I struggled where to put two of the older players because their careers were at a time too soon for the metric/reference used. Their career numbers were, however, similar to someone of a relatively comparable age that was listed (theirs being more impressive) so I slotted them above that similar player.

The players' perceived physicality will have played a part in where they were finally slotted -- in other words, total subjectivity based upon how I see it.

Lastly, although the length of the draft and drafters' efforts deserve lengthy writeups, I didn't bother since I'm basing it off a to-be-revealed-at-end list -- the only writeups were to "show my work" in slottings that demanded a little more thought.

Rank 16 / 1 pts     Darrell Green

Rank 15 / 2 pts     Paul Krause

Rank 14 / 3 pts     Ken Houston

Rank 13 / 4 pts     Troy Polamalu

More later....

 
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Gally said:
I would rather have the judges input involved and not just a bunch of internet lists.  If you have a worry about impartiality just bounce it off @BobbyLayne and/or @Getzlaf15 for a sanity check. 
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RETIRED

also my friend @Ilov80s is a subject matter expert in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE

(you guys hear that? I have the NFL Films brass band orchestra playing as an earworm when I read 80s posts)

 
Getzlaf15 said:
I use the lists as a guide in almost all my judgings so far.   Like if I give some CATS a max score of 15, some 12, some 8, then I take like 3-4 lists and the combined ranking of them all i give an 8 or 12 max.   It is a good check on how to rank your own pick.    When I did the SB's. the NE/PHIL was 3rd of 5 of the lists I had. So I felt comfortable with the 3rd I gave it. PM me if you like.   I would like to see you and Zow post yours ASAP.
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I purposely stayed away from lists for my cats - with one exception*. I didn't have to worry about placing my own pick too high because I didn't have any picks. Of course, there will be personal biases in any of these cats unless the judge is just cut-and-pasting someone else's rankings. 

I felt fairly good about my rankings when they were done (probably from relief), but I knew even then that I'd shuffle some spots if I had to do it again. I had no almost no doubt about my #1s (DT and Coach K were no-brainers for me, and UNLV was pretty close). Most of the rest were a ##### to order.

* - I did look at a ranking of those late 60s/early 70s UCLA teams because they were bleeding together in my pea brain. But I didn't order them exactly as the ranking I saw did - just needed a cleanser, and that list helped. 

 
Women's b-ball top 5 will be revealed by the end of the day.  Need to finish the write-ups, which will hopefully solidify the current 1-5 in my mind.

Additional commentary about the rankings will follow...

 
5 - 12 points

SHERYL SWOOPES

Great player with a peak that is right up there with anyone.  Led Texas Tech to a national championship as the Naismath player of the year in 1993.  Won 2 FIBA World Cups and 3 Olympic Gold Medals.  Really came into her in the WNBA starting in 1997, playing for 12 years and went on to win 4 championships, 3 MVPs, 3 defensive players of the year, 5 first-team all-WNBA (and 2 seconds), as well as 2 1st-team all-defensive teams (though that designation did not exist for her entire career).  She was relentless on offense and defense. Played a little bit in Europe, but not that much and to little acclaim.

4 - 13 points

TAMIKA CATCHINGS

Catchings is hard to pin down.  She won one NCAA championship and a Naismath Award.  Has won 2 FIBA World Cups and 4 Olympic Gold Medals.  The individual numbers and accomplishments that she has put up in her 15-year WNBA career really kind of dwarf anyone else.  Win Shares she has 93.65, with second place being 73.07.  In Kevin Pelton's WARP metric, she is even farther ahead of the field.  Named first-team all-WNBA 7 times and second team 5 times.  She was the defensive player of the year a record 5 times and made first-team all-defense 10 times (and second team 2 times).  She retired as the league's all-time steals leader and in the top 10 in games, minutes, field goals, free throws, rebounds, assists and points.  She didn't play overseas as much as some others, but she had her moments.  The big issue for me is that she only won 1 WNBA MVP and 1 championship.  Now, certainly part of this is because she didn't have great teams around her at all times.  Is she the most versatile and skilled player ever?  Could be.  But is it clear that she is a dead-bang franchise player who would make you a clear championship team?  It may be unfair, but I just don't see enough evidence.

3 - 14 points

LAUREN JACKSON

Without injuries, it would have been really tough to keep her out of the top spot.  Being from Australia, she has no college resume.  She did lead the country to a FIBA World Cup gold, no small feat.  Where she made her mark was in the WNBA, where she was clearly the player of the decade from 2001-2010.  Injuries limited her in the following 2 seasons, but she was still able to put up the 2nd-highest career win shares of any player and a close 3rd in Kevin Pelton's WARP.  She won 3 league MVPs, 2 championships, 1 defensive player of the year, and was named to the all WNBA First Team 7 times (1 second) and had 2 All-Defense First Teams and 3 All-Defense Second Teams.  She was a dominant post player and defender who could also shoot 3s.  Just a transformative player in terms of size and skill.

2 - 15 points

LISA LESLIE

Really the model for consistent, high-level centerpiece play in the WNBA.  She was voted all-WNBA in every single one of her 12 seasons, 8 first-team and 4 second-team.  Won 3 MVP awards and 2 championships on teams that really didn't have another star, picking up the Finals MVP in both.  Won defensive player of the year 2 times and made 2 first-team and 2 second-team all-defense.  Also picked up 4 Olympic gold medals, 3 FIBA World Cups and a Naismath award.  A consummate professional, she was the real face of the WNBA for her entire career.  Her imposing size combined with her skill resulted in her being 3rd all-time in blocks per game, 4th in rebounds per game, 10th in points per game, and 24th in steals per game.

1 - 16 points

DIANA TAURASI

I was a little skeptical of Taurasi true all-around talent, but at the end of the day, she's gotta get her due for leading winning teams ####### everywhere.  Won 3 NCAA championships and 2 Naismath awards.  4 Olympic golds and 3 FIBA World Cups.  3 WNBA Championships, though perhaps surprisingly just 1 MVP, but she has been all-WNBA in all 13 of her full seasons, including 10 First teams.  Outside of the US, she has destroyed the Euroleague, playing for teams in Russia and Turkey, resulting in 7 Russian National League championships, a Turkish National League championship, and 6 Euroleague championships.  Moreover, she was the Russian League Player of the year 3 times.  Her nonstop dominance in multiple levels means that she really has to get the GOAT status.

Diana Taurasi - 16
Lisa Leslie - 15
Lauren Jackson - 14
Tamika Catchings - 13
Sheyrl Swoopes - 12
Maya Moore - 11
Candace Parker -10
Elena Della Donne - 9
Cynthia Cooper - 8
Cheryl Miller - 7
Nancy Lieberman - 6 
Sue Bird - 5
Tina Thompson  - 4
Ann Meyers - 3
Carol Blazejowski - 2
Rebecca Lobo - 1

 
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Standings After Long Ball Larry ranked Women's Greatest Hoops Players - 

 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL

1 --Gally--435--3--1--3=7

2 --Ilov80s--433--3--4--1=8

3 --Zow--430--3--4--5=12

4 --tuffnutt--425--4--1--6=11

5 --DougB--419--6--2--2=10

6 --AAABatteries--419--3--3--5=11 (bronze)

7 --joffer--415--5--3--1=9

8 --Getzlaf15--413--1--7--4=12 (silver)

9 --Long Ball Larry--405--3--2--4=9

10 -otb_lifer--388--0--2--4=6

11 -Jagov--374--3--7--0=10 (gold)

12 -timschochet--366--3--2--3=8

13 -wikkidpissah--350--2--1--4=7

14 -jwb--348--2--4--2=8

15 -higgins--344--1--1--2=4

16 -Kal El--292--4--2--0=6

 
I admit that although I knew all of the names selected, I've probably only ever watched a few minutes of each player at most.  I tried to strike a balance between talent, physical gifts, and actual accomplishments.  

As a result of all of that, it was definitely hard for the older players to get a fair shake.  They didn't have the same playing opportunities, training or level of competition.  It is possible that if someone actually saw all of these people play a lot, he or she could give some more subjectivity to it and get closer to the "truth".  I ultimately have a hard time believing that the older players could compete that well with the top 10, just because of the nature of training and athleticism today.  And I couldn't really find much of people writing about trying to really compare players when adjusting for era issues.  So within the context of these rankings, I had a hard time putting that much stock in a bunch of people just saying, "oh yeah, she was really good" as opposed to actual quantifiable data.  I could possibly see Cheryl Miller as high as 7, but I feel like the physical gifts of EDD, Cooper and Parker combined with their actual accomplishments are still better than Miller.  The 6 above that, I have no doubt that their physical traits combined with the massive dominance that they showed, mean that they need to be ranked above her.

I also may have been a little harsh on Sue Bird also, but I think that it's tough for a pure point guard to score that high in an all-around category like this.  All of these were good selections and made it really tough to figure out (aside from Lobo...)

 
higgins said:
NFL Secondary

Rank 16 / 1 pts     Darrell Green

Rank 15 / 2 pts     Paul Krause

Rank 14 / 3 pts     Ken Houston

Rank 13 / 4 pts     Troy Polamalu

More later....
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The criteria will be very interesting because I would have thought Green (elite corner for many years), Krause (all time leader in Interceptions), and Polamalu (hybrid that changed games by himself) would be much higher in the rankings. 

 
higgins said:
NFL Secondary

I could conceivably have come up with my own metric for rating the NFL secondary players but (1) I'm too lazy, and (2) there is already one I trust that exists -- the reference (with explanation) will be listed after all of the picks have been identified.

While I was fine using the reference as a baseline, I struggled where to put two of the older players because their careers were at a time too soon for the metric/reference used. Their career numbers were, however, similar to someone of a relatively comparable age that was listed (theirs being more impressive) so I slotted them above that similar player.

The players' perceived physicality will have played a part in where they were finally slotted -- in other words, total subjectivity based upon how I see it.

Lastly, although the length of the draft and drafters' efforts deserve lengthy writeups, I didn't bother since I'm basing it off a to-be-revealed-at-end list -- the only writeups were to "show my work" in slottings that demanded a little more thought.

Rank 16 / 1 pts     Darrell Green

Rank 15 / 2 pts     Paul Krause

Rank 14 / 3 pts     Ken Houston

Rank 13 / 4 pts     Troy Polamalu

More later....
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Must be a lot of cornerback hate in your trunk.

Here's a baseline:  Darrell Green, #3 CB on the official NFL top 100. (Mel Blount and Willie Green were ranked higher)

4 First Team All-Pro

NFL's 1990's All-Decade Team (and Two All-Pros and Three Pro Bowls in the 80s)

2 Super Bowl rings

1 Walter Payton MOY Award

I hate compilers as much as the next guy, but this guy brought an 'A' game longer than anyone else I can think of.

On the bright side - #### Redskins.

Carry on.

 
Ouch that ranking for Darrell Green really hurt. I didn’t expect top 10 but certainly didn’t expect last place. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Ouch that ranking for Darrell Green really hurt. I didn’t expect top 10 but certainly didn’t expect last place. 
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Btw: I had zero idea who picked who.

i think the rationale will be evident once I post my baseline reference w/ explanation. 

 
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Ilov80s said:
Ouch that ranking for Darrell Green really hurt. I didn’t expect top 10 but certainly didn’t expect last place. 
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Right there with you with the ALL TIME NFL leader in interceptions.  Hard to believe he was 15th.  Again not the #1 guy but hard to put that low in my eyes. I figured he would be around 10th ish as well. 

 
Gally said:
Right there with you with the ALL TIME NFL leader in interceptions.  Hard to believe he was 15th.  Again not the #1 guy but hard to put that low in my eyes. I figured he would be around 10th ish as well. 
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Yeah tough break. Green seems to rate pretty high on most lists I’ve seen. Interesting though knowing you missed big here too. It will be a tight finish. CIA and I  still got some big ones out there.

 
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Mister CIA said:
Must be a lot of cornerback hate in your trunk.

Here's a baseline:  Darrell Green, #3 CB on the official NFL top 100. (Mel Blount and Willie Green were ranked higher)

4 First Team All-Pro

NFL's 1990's All-Decade Team (and Two All-Pros and Three Pro Bowls in the 80s)

2 Super Bowl rings

1 Walter Payton MOY Award

I hate compilers as much as the next guy, but this guy brought an 'A' game longer than anyone else I can think of.

On the bright side - #### Redskins.

Carry on.
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Must be 10 or more safties better then.   :D

Having judged a few NFL cats, the NFL Top 100 was by far the last thing I would go by.  There are a lot of very old players included in the early era that really should not have been. It's like they wanted each era at least represented by one player, instead of the Top 7 no matter what.

I've done OFF and DEF. linemen already.  Two AP and 3 PB's would have tied for last in each of those CATS.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeDa00.htm

He had 7 PB and 1 AP.  Not sure where you are getting your info from.  1 AP is not very good.

 
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Getzlaf15 said:
He didn't mention Krause.  Why are you bringing this up?
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Cause he was my guy that I referenced first as being low as the all time NFL leader in interceptions.  Figured he would be higher and you mentioned a lot of safeties taken so just blowing steam...hahaha

 
Gally said:
Cause he was my guy that I referenced first as being low as the all time NFL leader in interceptions.  Figured he would be higher and you mentioned a lot of safeties taken so just blowing steam...hahaha
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oh.  I didn't read your comment LOL

 
Getzlaf15 said:
Must be 10 or more safties better then.   :D

Having judged a few NFL cats, the NFL Top 100 was by far the last thing I would go by.  There are a lot of very old players included in the early era that really should not have been. It's like they wanted each era at least represented by one player, instead of the Top 7 no matter what.

I've done OFF and DEF. linemen already.  Two AP and 3 PB's would have tied for last in each of those CATS.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeDa00.htm

He had 7 PB and 1 AP.  Not sure where you are getting your info from.  1 AP is not very good.
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I think it depends which sources you use for AP. I don’t know which is the real one. Wikipedia has 4x 1st team AP. I think he’s kind of a Frank Gore/Curtis Martin type where one of his biggest assets was longevity. He was very good for 20 years but was the best of the best for only maybe 5 years. It’s just a matter of perspective. It’s not a complaint from me, just a conversation as we await more judging.

 
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