2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (2 Viewers)

[Juxtatarot]

Bulls reporter and Sideline guy for Bulls broadcasts is reporting the Bulls only have interest in trading Nikola Vucevic this summer for another all star Big. Names Anthony Davis, Rudy Goebart and Ayton 

Here’s what K.C. Johnson actually wrote (answer to a mailbag question):

Nikola Vučević does a lot of things valuable to the Bulls for sure. But when it comes to his future, do you see a trade going down in the offseason built around him or potentially DeMar DeRozan? — Pokes S.

Even if DeRozan doesn’t match this season’s performance, which certainly is likely given he’s having a career season in Year 13, trading him would be foolish unless it’s part of some currently unforeseen blockbuster for an All-NBA player. Even then, it might not be prudent. DeRozan not only has helped lift this franchise up with his play, but also with his stature around the league. That’s not insignificant.

Vučević has a declining and expiring deal. But he also was specifically targeted by this management team at last season’s trade deadline and his trade price wasn’t cheap. Like DeRozan, he’d likely only be dealt if it’s for some All-Star caliber player who either suddenly becomes disgruntled or whose team suddenly decides to shake things up.

I’m talking names like Anthony Davis if the Lakers decide to make drastic changes following a wildly disappointing season or Rudy Gobert if Utah flames out in the postseason again or DeAndre Ayton is his restricted free agency becomes messy. To be clear, all of these are extreme longshot scenarios. I expect both DeRozan and Vučević to return.

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

Hello old friends.

Am I the only one kinda disappointed by Winning Time on HBO? Admittedly I didn't do a lot of research in advance or read Pearlman's book, but I was looking forward to a fast-moving story about the Lakers teams of the early 80s, not a deep dive into the psyche of Jerry West. Four episodes in and we still habven't gotten to the first game of the 1979-80 regular season. At the end of the first episode I figured Magic would be subbing in at center in the Finals by the third episode. Why are they spending all this time on a Pat Riley origin story if the series is just gonna end with him as an assistant coach?

Anyway, nice to be ranting about meaningless nonsense to complete strangers again, and I'm thankful that Capella has kept the title change shtick going.

 

[Instinctive]

Mavs in the 3-seed now. Do we just not care about your team winning anymore?

MVP candidates should really be like Giannis, Luka, Booker before we get to Embiid and Jokic, even with Jokics fun “points added” metrics. 
 

Do we really think Lukas surrounding cast is so much better than in Denver?

 

[wikkidpissah]

Hello old friends.

Am I the only one kinda disappointed by Winning Time on HBO? Admittedly I didn't do a lot of research in advance or read Pearlman's book, but I was looking forward to a fast-moving story about the Lakers teams of the early 80s, not a deep dive into the psyche of Jerry West. Four episodes in and we still habven't gotten to the first game of the 1979-80 regular season. At the end of the first episode I figured Magic would be subbing in at center in the Finals by the third episode. Why are they spending all this time on a Pat Riley origin story if the series is just gonna end with him as an assistant coach?

Anyway, nice to be ranting about meaningless nonsense to complete strangers again, and I'm thankful that Capella has kept the title change shtick going.

i saw the 1st 2 eps due to a free-HBO wkend from my cable co and dont think i'd have watched a 3rd. love Adam McKay, love John C Reilly but the two of them should have sucked some of the dread out of one Jerry and injected it into the other. i played cards with Dr Buss a few times backinaday and could clearly tell that his canny easybreeziness was very hard won. because of McKay's taste for tearing down power figures, i was a lot more forgiving of his caricatures than i would have been with others, but one simply didnt get to be an foundational baller without a highly integrative mind, no matter how naive or how much axe you had to grind going into it and it is in this way that both West and Magic are insulted here. the best word i can call up to describe the entire production is triflin'.

 

[Charlie Harper]

Mavs in the 3-seed now. Do we just not care about your team winning anymore?

MVP candidates should really be like Giannis, Luka, Booker before we get to Embiid and Jokic, even with Jokics fun “points added” metrics. 
 

Do we really think Lukas surrounding cast is so much better than in Denver?

I guess it depends on what your tiebreaker is team record or advance stats.

There's a number of guys who have a claim to MVP this season.

 

[Capella]

Hello old friends.

Am I the only one kinda disappointed by Winning Time on HBO? Admittedly I didn't do a lot of research in advance or read Pearlman's book, but I was looking forward to a fast-moving story about the Lakers teams of the early 80s, not a deep dive into the psyche of Jerry West. Four episodes in and we still habven't gotten to the first game of the 1979-80 regular season. At the end of the first episode I figured Magic would be subbing in at center in the Finals by the third episode. Why are they spending all this time on a Pat Riley origin story if the series is just gonna end with him as an assistant coach?

Anyway, nice to be ranting about meaningless nonsense to complete strangers again, and I'm thankful that Capella has kept the title change shtick going.

I like it so far but agree it’s kind of weird how much focus has been on Jerry West. Certainly wasn’t expecting that. 
 

Also my wife refuses to believe Pat Riley becomes this smooth, debonair almost godfather like figure in the NBA. 

 

[caustic]

Yeah, I'm not sure who's beating Giannis in a 7-game series.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Mavs in the 3-seed now. Do we just not care about your team winning anymore?

MVP candidates should really be like Giannis, Luka, Booker before we get to Embiid and Jokic, even with Jokics fun “points added” metrics. 
 

Do we really think Lukas surrounding cast is so much better than in Denver?

You have to remember that the average NBA voter for MVP is a moron.  Chris Broussard (who has an MVP vote) basically said on FS1 the other day that since everyone knows Jordan should have won more than 5 and LeBron should have more than 4 that giving Giannis a 3rd already wouldn't be right and that he should have to deal with not winning it a few times he probably should as well.  I about fell over laughing when he said that.  

 

[DJackson10]

They really needed to keep one of Curry or Drummond.  Trading both killed their bench and they didn't replace them at all.

Bench was already Suspect before the trade and this killed it. They also need a better big to back up Embiid. Then you got the Doc Rivers factor of being poor in the playoffs. I think their best Window though to win is this year as I think everyone in the East is improving this offseason. 

 

[Instinctive]

You have to remember that the average NBA voter for MVP is a moron.  Chris Broussard (who has an MVP vote) basically said on FS1 the other day that since everyone knows Jordan should have won more than 5 and LeBron should have more than 4 that giving Giannis a 3rd already wouldn't be right and that he should have to deal with not winning it a few times he probably should as well.  I about fell over laughing when he said that.  

Comparison is the thief of joy. 

My ballot today would be:

1. Giannis

2. Luka

3. Embiid

4. Jokic

5. Booker

 

[DJackson10]

You have to remember that the average NBA voter for MVP is a moron.  Chris Broussard (who has an MVP vote) basically said on FS1 the other day that since everyone knows Jordan should have won more than 5 and LeBron should have more than 4 that giving Giannis a 3rd already wouldn't be right and that he should have to deal with not winning it a few times he probably should as well.  I about fell over laughing when he said that.  

Ah I haven't heard CB's name in ages good to see he's still a lap dog for Lebron. I was a bit worried there. 

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Yeah, I'm not sure who's beating Giannis in a 7-game series.

Until he loses another one (presuming Bucks at/near full health), I'm not betting against him again.

He did everything he wanted against as good a defensive frontcourt in the league in the Suns last finals. Only thing that'll stop him is him (FTs or shooting/missing from outside)

 

[Deamon]

Comparison is the thief of joy. 

My ballot today would be:

1. Giannis

2. Luka

3. Embiid

4. Jokic

5. Booker

Vegas now has Jokic ahead of Embiid for MVP... but just barely.  Giannis is going to need a miracle to win it, and Luca isn't even in the discussion.

N. Jokic -200

J. Embiid +190

G. Antetokounmpo +650

D. Booker +12,000

L. Doncic +12,000

J. Tatum +18,000

R. Gobert +18,000

K. Durant +18,000

J. Morant +18,000

 

[gruecd]

Giannis is going to need a miracle to win it

Dude put up 40-14-6 and had the game-saving block against the Sixers on Wednesday.  Last night against Brooklyn he goes 44-14-6, hits a step-back three to send the game into OT, and then makes two FTs with 3 seconds left to win it (15/19 for the game).  He has a very realistic chance of winning both the scoring title and DPOTY.  What the #### else does this guy need to do??

If he doesn't win MVP, the award is a sham.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Dude put up 40-14-6 and had the game-saving block against the Sixers on Wednesday.  Last night against Brooklyn he goes 44-14-6, hits a step-back three to send the game into OT, and then makes two FTs with 3 seconds left to win it (15/19 for the game).  He has a very realistic chance of winning both the scoring title and DPOTY.  What the #### else does this guy need to do??

If he doesn't win MVP, the award is a sham.

Agreed. Those odds posted above are a reflection of how stupid the voters are. 

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Vegas now has Jokic ahead of Embiid for MVP... but just barely.  Giannis is going to need a miracle to win it, and Luca isn't even in the discussion.

N. Jokic -200

J. Embiid +190

G. Antetokounmpo +650

D. Booker +12,000

L. Doncic +12,000

J. Tatum +18,000

R. Gobert +18,000

K. Durant +18,000

J. Morant +18,000

Jokic should be the favorite imo.  First of all—-his numbers are elite. Secondly—the supporting cast that he’s had this season is exponentially worse than any of the other guys.  Thirdly—he’s played in 70 games this season—which is 7 more than embiid, 7 more than Giannis and 10 more than Luka. He’s been there for his team in 10-15% more games than the other guys have been.  

 

[offdee]

Dude put up 40-14-6 and had the game-saving block against the Sixers on Wednesday.  Last night against Brooklyn he goes 44-14-6, hits a step-back three to send the game into OT, and then makes two FTs with 3 seconds left to win it (15/19 for the game).  He has a very realistic chance of winning both the scoring title and DPOTY.  What the #### else does this guy need to do??

If he doesn't win MVP, the award is a sham.

Not to mention that every time Giannis was out of the game to get a rest in, Brooklyn went on a run to put them up by 10 pts.   Giannis comes into the game and the Bucks come back...it happened about 3 times last night.  (and oh, by the way, the final comeback and OT win was without Kris Middleton who got ejected with 5 mins left in regulation)

He's most certainly the most valuable player by definition.  Without him the Bucks are middle of the road.  With him they are a top contender for a title.  Dude is unstoppable now with an outside shot and Free Throw confidence.

 

[Kev4029]

Comparison is the thief of joy. 

My ballot today would be:

1. Giannis

2. Luka

3. Embiid

4. Jokic

5. Booker

Are we going to ignore the fact that Doncic was pretty ####### bad for the first 8 weeks while he worked on losing 25 pounds? The first third of the season counts as much as the last third. 

I wouldn't argue too much with Embiid, Jokic, Giannis in any order but to have anybody else even in the same ballpark is just trying to get a reaction for the sake of the reaction. Those three are having all-time seasons, the next 4-5 guys are having seasons that could typically be in discussion for MVP, but not this year.

 

[Kev4029]

Vegas now has Jokic ahead of Embiid for MVP... but just barely.  Giannis is going to need a miracle to win it, and Luca isn't even in the discussion.

N. Jokic -200

J. Embiid +190

G. Antetokounmpo +650

D. Booker +12,000

L. Doncic +12,000

J. Tatum +18,000

R. Gobert +18,000

K. Durant +18,000

J. Morant +18,000

That's a pretty big change as Jokic has been floating around the +120 range for the last couple weeks and Embiid has been around -200. So Embiid's odds went from 2:1 to 1:2... That's a huge drop. 

After the last ESPN MVP straw poll, I'm surprised the betting odds didn't immediately flip like this. I don't know how many of the 100 voters they were polled are actual voters, but I'm guessing a good portion. And they had Jokic winning the award very comfortably with 2/3 of the first place votes.

 

[gruecd]

Jokic should be the favorite imo.  First of all—-his numbers are elite. Secondly—the supporting cast that he’s had this season is exponentially worse than any of the other guys.  Thirdly—he’s played in 70 games this season—which is 7 more than embiid, 7 more than Giannis and 10 more than Luka. He’s been there for his team in 10-15% more games than the other guys have been.  

Similar offensive proficiency, and Giannis is LIGHT YEARS ahead in terms of his defense.  MVP.

 

[wikkidpissah]

i would not be upset by Jokic, Embiid, Doncic or Anteaternintendo as MVP. Doncic leads the least-talented squad but is buoyed by Kidd's team concept (been a while since i seen a season w 3 such important coaching jobs as Kidd, Udoka and MWill have done) but Jokic simply drags his squad up and down the court. Sometimes the Mavs do well in spite of their leader, whereas the Joker is responsible for almost every good result by his team. Embiid almost does it in spite of his team & coach and Giannis makes even KD get out da way. Give it to any or all - i'm fine widdit. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The Nuggets had no answer for him.

I was at the game and the arena was at least 25% Suns fans. The stalemate between Kroenke and Comcast is killing the fanbase. For 90% of the area, we haven't been able to (legally) watch a game on TV for 3 full seasons now. The NBA needs to step in to fix it.

thank god I have Direct TV...

 

[Stinkin Ref]

there is a reason Joker is the favorite.....it's really not that hard to figure out...

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Similar offensive proficiency, and Giannis is LIGHT YEARS ahead in terms of his defense.  MVP.

Agree to disagree. Giannis also has Jrue Holiday, Kris Middleton, Bobby Ports. He has a far better supporting cast—and some of that cast are also very notable defenders.  Giannis has missed more games than Jokic—and even without him—the Bucks were basically a 0.500 team. You take Joker off of the Nuggets for 10 games—the remaining Nuggets would have to play out of their minds to go 5-5.  You take Giannis off of the Bucks for the entire season—the remaining Bucks are probably still competing for a 7-9 seed. You take Jokic off of the Nuggets for the entire season—the Nuggets would be at OKC, Portland, Sacramento King level. 

 

[Gr00vus]

Caring about who wins the MVP award - it's faaaaaaantastic.

 

[Kev4029]

Mavs in the 3-seed now. Do we just not care about your team winning anymore?

MVP candidates should really be like Giannis, Luka, Booker before we get to Embiid and Jokic, even with Jokics fun “points added” metrics. 
 

Do we really think Lukas surrounding cast is so much better than in Denver?

Offensively, a bit better. The Nuggets second best offensive player is.... Bones Hyland? Monte Morris? Will Barton? The Nuggets have one regular rotation player above a 15.0 PER - Jokic. The Nuggets have a decent batch of play finishers but an embarrassingly terrible batch of creators outside of Jokic. The Nuggets are giving huge minutes to guys that just aren't that good - Austin Rivers is in the closing 5, the Green brothers are playing huge minutes, Facu was closing games for some of the season (he's played the 8th most minutes on the team and he is AWFUL and I can almost guarantee he won't be in the NBA next season). The Mavs have a similar set of play finishers but they have also had the combo of either Porzingis and Dinwiddie as well as Brunson have been much more reliable offensive threats than what Denver has had this season. Overall, Doncic is leading a mediocre offensive supporting cast to a mediocre offense (they are 18th in ortg). Jokic has lead a mediocre offensive supporting cast to a very good offensive (6th in ortg). 

Defensively, it's not really close. The Mavs are 6th in defensive efficiency this season with a 109 drtg. Maybe Doncic has been okay on that end, but he has zero to do with their success defensively. They are winning based on defense, not offense. Doncic allows them to focus the rest of the team on defense while providing competence offensively, which is valuable, but he's nowhere near the offensive engine that Jokic is.

 

[Kev4029]

Caring about who wins the MVP award - it's faaaaaaantastic.

We could be talking about the race for the West play in game instead...

 

[Instinctive]

We could be talking about the race for the West play in game instead...

I'm so glad we got the laugh emoji back

 

[Jayrod]

I checked out for about two weeks, but glad to see I didn't miss too much.

-BOS were the future champs and then they weren't.  Still a tough matchup from the 4 seed for whoever lands #1 if TimeLord makes it back by then.  Tatum has solidified a spot on the All-NBA teams and Smart as 1st team All-D.  Don't think Udoka gets COY (Monty has earned it twice now), but super impressed and newly excited for the future and they have a decent shot to get deep in the playoffs this year.

-MVP race is the three big guys, but likely Jokic wins again.  I've been touting him for months now.  Nobody does more for their team every night.

-The West is PHX and a scrappy MEM team (who looks great even without Ja) and a handful of teams who are good but not great.  With CP3 back, PHX should be in the Finals again.  They look like their record says the are, the best team in the league.

-The East is a dogfight from 1-4 with BKN possibly joining the party.  We will get a ECF level series in the first round with whoever faces BKN.  The semis and ECF will be very compelling basketball.  Can't wait! 

 

[Gr00vus]

We could be talking about the race for the West play in game instead...

The Kings have got this.

 

[Instinctive]

I checked out for about two weeks, but glad to see I didn't miss too much.

-BOS were the future champs and then they weren't.  Still a tough matchup from the 4 seed for whoever lands #1 if TimeLord makes it back by then.  Tatum has solidified a spot on the All-NBA teams and Smart as 1st team All-D.  Don't think Udoka gets COY (Monty has earned it twice now), but super impressed and newly excited for the future and they have a decent shot to get deep in the playoffs this year.

-MVP race is the three big guys, but likely Jokic wins again.  I've been touting him for months now.  Nobody does more for their team every night.

-The West is PHX and a scrappy MEM team (who looks great even without Ja) and a handful of teams who are good but not great.  With CP3 back, PHX should be in the Finals again.  They look like their record says the are, the best team in the league.

-The East is a dogfight from 1-4 with BKN possibly joining the party.  We will get a ECF level series in the first round with whoever faces BKN.  The semis and ECF will be very compelling basketball.  Can't wait! 

Not mindblowing or anything, but I'd take Dallas in a series against every team in the NBA but two: Phoenix and Milwaukee. If they hold onto the three, I'll be disappointed by anything less than a WCF appearance, and if something weird happens and PHX loses first or second round, I think Dallas should be in the Finals like Miami in the bubble or OKC in 2012.

 

[Kev4029]

Not mindblowing or anything, but I'd take Dallas in a series against every team in the NBA but two: Phoenix and Milwaukee. If they hold onto the three, I'll be disappointed by anything less than a WCF appearance, and if something weird happens and PHX loses first or second round, I think Dallas should be in the Finals like Miami in the bubble or OKC in 2012.

These are some homerific takes today.

 

[caustic]

Mavs in the 3-seed now. Do we just not care about your team winning anymore?

MVP candidates should really be like Giannis, Luka, Booker before we get to Embiid and Jokic, even with Jokics fun “points added” metrics. 

I mean we’ll see how the remainder of the season plays out, but excluding Booker and the Suns machine, we’re talking about 46 Denver/Philly wins vs. 48 Milwaukee/Dallas wins. Seeding really exaggerates the difference in win totals right now.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Lakers bringing AD back tonight with what, 6 games left? Is it really worth the risk at this point? Plus Bron is still hurting.

 

[ShamrockPride]

I guess Giannis the only Buck that plays D? Sheesh, 153 pts let up...brutal. And that was without PG.

 

[millertyme1]

Mavs in the 3-seed now. Do we just not care about your team winning anymore?

Agreed. No clue what everyone else is looking at. 

1) KCP

2) KP 

3) Doncic

 

[Frostillicus]

We did it!!

 

[Kev4029]

Jokic played 43:23, was +4 and the Nuggets lost by 7. 

 

[Frostillicus]

Hello old friends.

Am I the only one kinda disappointed by Winning Time on HBO? Admittedly I didn't do a lot of research in advance or read Pearlman's book, but I was looking forward to a fast-moving story about the Lakers teams of the early 80s, not a deep dive into the psyche of Jerry West. Four episodes in and we still habven't gotten to the first game of the 1979-80 regular season. At the end of the first episode I figured Magic would be subbing in at center in the Finals by the third episode. Why are they spending all this time on a Pat Riley origin story if the series is just gonna end with him as an assistant coach?

Anyway, nice to be ranting about meaningless nonsense to complete strangers again, and I'm thankful that Capella has kept the title change shtick going.

I'm loving it, actually. I know all the highlights, I'm enjoying the (fake or not) details. 

 

[Frostillicus]

Caring about who wins the MVP award - it's faaaaaaantastic.

Are we not supposed to care?

 

[Frostillicus]

I guess Giannis the only Buck that plays D? Sheesh, 153 pts let up...brutal. And that was without PG.

Might want to take a closer look at that MIL boxscore. 

 

[ShamrockPride]

Might want to take a closer look at that MIL boxscore. 

I saw G wasn't playing. What I'm saying, that D is brutal without him.

 

[offdee]

I guess Giannis the only Buck that plays D? Sheesh, 153 pts let up...brutal. And that was without PG.

None of the starters played…Giannis, Middleton, Holiday, Brook Lopez or Grayson Allen. They got back home at 2:30am from the Brooklyn game the night before. Bucks literally trotted out the 2nd and 3rd strings. 

 

[jvdesigns2002]

None of the starters played…Giannis, Middleton, Holiday, Brook Lopez or Grayson Allen. They got back home at 2:30am from the Brooklyn game the night before. Bucks literally trotted out the 2nd and 3rd strings. 

Let’s not fail to mention that the Clippers also rested/didn’t play three of their starters too.  Hard to extrapolate much from the game based on those circumstances. 

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Are we not supposed to care?

Agree with this. It’s an NBA thread where we should be discussing NBA topics. Secondly—whether we want to admit it or not—MVP awards are a significant part of a players resume when it comes to future discussions about where they rank all time.  

 

[offdee]

Let’s not fail to mention that the Clippers also rested/didn’t play three of their starters too.  Hard to extrapolate much from the game based on those circumstances. 

Yep, exactly.  Was basically a G-league game.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So Lakers aren’t going to even make the play-in tournament that Lebron thought whomever was behind the idea of should be fired. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

So Lakers aren’t going to even make the play-in tournament that Lebron thought whomever was behind the idea of should be fired. 

i should really be enjoying the comeuppance of my least-favorite great athlete of all time, but am so tired of him that i'm not anything but annoyed... 

 

[Instinctive]

These are some homerific takes today.

I mean...Morant is hurt. Nobody is scared of the Jazz or Nuggets. The play in teams all suck. And Curry is hurt. I don't see how a top 5 player on a team that's got among the best net differentials since Jan 1 being a top contender is a particularly hot take.

 

[Frostillicus]

The play in teams all suck. 

Excuse me?