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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (3 Viewers)

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Anarchy99 said:
I think the Celtics match up better with the Bucks than they do with the Heat. They can utilize the same strategy on Giannis as they did on KD . . . get physical and throw multiple bodies at him. That won't stop him . . . but they could make him inefficient.

What's interesting about Boston is their efficiency numbers on the season are essentially the same as the Suns. Both had net ratings of +7.5 and based on the numbers each should have won 59 games. The difference is the C's were close to even the first half of the season and nearly +15 in net rating over the second half of the season (which is why the geeky analytic sites love their chances). Lots of folks are poo-pooing the Celtics chances, but they went to the ECFs 3 times in the past 5 years.

IMO, if Tatum and Brown are close in combined scoring to KD and Kyrie each game, Boston has a better supporting cast and defense to win those games. The Jays had 54 points in Game 1 to 62 points for Kyrie and KD. I would expect the Jays to score more in Game 2 to counter Durant having a better game (and Kyrie should score less this time around).

The Nets shot it very well (54%) while the Celtics clanked a ton of shots at the rim. That will even out at some point, which will also benefit Boston. We'll see how it goes, but the Celts should be able to beat the Nets.
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I'm trying to be objective, but they are really the only team I've seen more than 2-3 times.  :unsure:

This is is the best Celtics team since I've been a fan.  They have a legit chance to actually make the Finals this year, but so do 4 other teams in the East.  If they had Robert Williams healthy and had beaten the Nets by 10 or more, I'd have them at #3. Without seeing TimeLord on the floor and playing well and them barely getting past the Nets in game 1, I'm simply "cautiously optimistic".  I reserve the right to change my mind with each game.

 
it is kind of crazy how good Toronto played this 1st half and the 6'ers are up double digits for most of this 2nd Q. has to be pretty demoralizing for Toronto

 
modogg said:
it is kind of crazy how good Toronto played this 1st half and the 6'ers are up double digits for most of this 2nd Q. has to be pretty demoralizing for Toronto
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Sixers have to close this out up 15 or I see Vanvleet going nuts 3rd quarter and bringing it back. 

 
Ok decent close out. Embiid limping and Harden throwing up a weak shot was anticlimactic but up 15 at half is good. 

 
Still increased the lead despite that run at the end. Just need to stay steady and close this out. Try to rest Embiid as much as possible. 

 
Insein said:
Still increased the lead despite that run at the end. Just need to stay steady and close this out. Try to rest Embiid as much as possible. 
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i'll take B-Ball Paul time over any of the back-up C's the past 4 years

 
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Maxi and the Brunson Burner doing the lord's work last night. 1-1 and very easily could have been 2-0 for either team. Luka injury sucks, this team is soooooo much better than Utah. 

 
Jayrod said:
Jayrod's super official playoff rankings (from who is most likely to win the title to least likely):

  1. Suns - objectively the best all-around team and the bottom of the West is weaker than the bottom of the East.  They'll face only one title contender before the Finals.
  2. Bucks - defending champs we're rusty in game 1, but have the horses and the experience to get back, making them a slight favorite out of the East.
  3. Heat - they check all the boxes and we forget they were in the Finals just 2 years ago.  Too many people sleeping on them and they will waltz into the ECF with at most 2 losses.
  4. Warriors - finally healthy, superstars and championship experience. If they weren't in the West, I'd have them above the Heat, but they are a good tick below the Suns, so I just don't see them getting out of the West....but if they do, it would mean they've started clicking again and anyone from the East would be in for a ride.
  5. Celtics - if they can survive Brooklyn and get Robert Williams back, that series with Milwaukee will be awesome and I think they are definitely good enough to beat Miami.  I just don't think they can beat the Bucks.
  6. Grizzlies - the belle of the ball, but came out the gate slow with re-incorporating Ja Morant back into the fold against a red-hot T-Wolves team.  I think they can get out of the first round, but they have a dog fight on their hands.
  7. Nets - I don't think they get past Boston, but if they do, I don't think they get past Milwaukee, but if they do get that far, then I think they will beat the Heat and play in the Finals. Toughest road to get there, but they have top 5 talent.
  8. 76ers - I didn't think they'd beat the Raptors, but they got the first win with ease.  We'll see how the series plays out, but I expect them to lose at least a couple in the first round and face a superior team in Miami.  That said, Embiid is a problem for every team and he has some help with Maxey.  If Harden would get back to playing great on a more consistent basis, they could have something.  This may be the team I'm way off on and I may have some green colored glasses here, but they just feel like another disappointment.
  9. Jazz - I would have had Dallas here (probably even a spot or two higher) if it wasn't for Doncic's injury.  He still may come back, but the Jazz will likely be coming home up 2-0.  They have a punchers chance against the Suns, but I think they'll fall in 5 or 6 games.
  10. Raptors - I like their pluck and think they could still catch Philly off guard, but they are a poor man's version of Miami...who would be their 2nd round opponent.  A first round victory would be a win.
  11. Timberwolves - These guys look great right now.  They could be for real, but they seem like an inexperienced and inconsistent team that will look phenomenal at times and then leave you scratching your head for a bit from game to game and even quarter to quarter.
  12. Mavericks - no Donic = no bueno. If he can come back from injury and rally them past a likely 2-0 hole vs the Jazz on the road, then they have to beat the Suns.  They are better than the 3 teams above them, but I just don't think either of those things are likely.  Tough break, Dallas (again).
  13. Nuggets - the likely 2x MVP has the worst supporting cast in the playoffs.  They will likely get swept by the Warriors but I'd like their chances against either Memphis or Minnesota better in the 2nd round.  Jokic just can't do enough to get them past that.
  14. Bulls - they showed some fight last night, but they are likely going to get swept, or at best, win 1 game. Their road is the same as Brooklyn's and is just too much to ask of this team who played their best basketball way back in December.
  15. Hawks - Trae may get a game or two on his own, but they just don't have what it takes to win 2 series this season, much less 4.  And as I keep mentioning, there is no easy path out of the East.
  16. Pelicans - Thanks for playing.  Enjoy your vacation, figure out what to do with Zion and come back better next year.
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Well this was absolute bunk.  Disregard at least half of what I wrote.  Move Sixers up a few spots, Raptors down, Jazz down and Dallas up.

Can't believe Toronto is getting run out the gym like this and Dallas stole one at home without Doncic.

 
Major said:
I love Jokic but will be disappointed if he gets the MVP.  Seems like Embiid's year.
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Meh, Jokic drug a JV team to where they are at and they are facing one of the top 4 teams in the league.

Embiid has a former MVP with him and a young phenom in Maxey.  Jokic has Will Barton, Aaron Gordon and Bones Hyland as his next best teammates.

 
Jayrod said:
Meh, Jokic drug a JV team to where they are at and they are facing one of the top 4 teams in the league.

Embiid has a former MVP with him and a young phenom in Maxey.  Jokic has Will Barton, Aaron Gordon and Bones Hyland as his next best teammates.
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I agree with this. The series vs the Warriors is about the worst possible matchup for Jokic and the Nuggets.   They play with too much quickness and basically cause Jokic to be a liability when he’s on the court.  Jokic literally has the worst plus/minus on the Nuggets through the first two games. The Nuggets are Jokic or bust—so this matchup is a nightmare for them. 

Embiid had a wonderful season—but he also had great teammates. Earlier in the thread—I said I liked the Harden deal for the 76ers—and I still stand by that.   Getting Harden allowed Maxey to focus more on scoring and attacking the basket—as Harden could take over a lot of the playmaking duties.  I also still had confidence that Harris and Harden could co-exist.   Even now—a lot of Phili fans are overlooking how well Harris played to finish out the season and how he started the playoffs. In the first two games—he’s averaging 23 points, 8 rebounds  on 64% field goal shooting.  Not many teams have the luxury of having a guy like him being their third or fourth option. 

 
Jayrod said:
Meh, Jokic drug a JV team to where they are at and they are facing one of the top 4 teams in the league.

Embiid has a former MVP with him and a young phenom in Maxey.  Jokic has Will Barton, Aaron Gordon and Bones Hyland as his next best teammates.
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Yea, but he has been doing it all year.  Regardless of who was in the lineup or not practicing.  The whole Simmons thing could have been a huge distraction or put extra pressure on him, but he just went out and balled all season without as many body maintenance days either it seemed.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Yea, but he has been doing it all year.  Regardless of who was in the lineup or not practicing.  The whole Simmons thing could have been a huge distraction or put extra pressure on him, but he just went out and balled all season without as many body maintenance days either it seemed.
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He missed 9 games with an injury and sat out 5 more (one was the last game of the season).

In probably 80% of NBA seasons, Embiid wins MVP easily.

This year, I he may even be #3 behind Giannis as well.

 
Jayrod said:
Meh, Jokic drug a JV team to where they are at and they are facing one of the top 4 teams in the league.

Embiid has a former MVP with him and a young phenom in Maxey.  Jokic has Will Barton, Aaron Gordon and Bones Hyland as his next best teammates.
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Embiid was the scoring champ as a center. He has more 30 point games than anyone this year and more 40 point games than anyone this year. He also plays defense. All this while the #2 Star on the team not only abandoned them but made a media circus of it for the whole season. He carried this team the first 3 months with only Maxey helping out here and there. 

Joel should be MVP.

 
Insein said:
Embiid was the scoring champ as a center. He has more 30 point games than anyone this year and more 40 point games than anyone this year. He also plays defense. All this while the #2 Star on the team not only abandoned them but made a media circus of it for the whole season. He carried this team the first 3 months with only Maxey helping out here and there. 

Joel should be MVP.
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It’s a literal coin flip between the two, as you can make the same arguments for Jokic not having Murray at all and Porter for only 9 games.  Beyond that, the Nuggets are absolute trash.  If there was ever a season for co-MVPs, this is it.  And that’s no disrespect intended towards Giannis, who also has a strong case. 

If I had a vote, I’m going with Jokic.  

 
Insein said:
Embiid was the scoring champ as a center. He has more 30 point games than anyone this year and more 40 point games than anyone this year. He also plays defense. All this while the #2 Star on the team not only abandoned them but made a media circus of it for the whole season. He carried this team the first 3 months with only Maxey helping out here and there. 

Joel should be MVP.
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I am not going to lose sleep over it no matter who wins, but Jokic had the most efficient season in the history of the NBA. As in best out of anyone . . . ever. To be fair, Giannis had the 3rd most efficient season of all time and Embiid was 14th best.

The Nuggets second best player (Murray) missed the entire season and their third best player (Porter) played in only 9 games. The Bucks and Sixers each won 51 games while the Nuggets won 48. Based on VORP, Jokic was at 9.8, Giannis was at 7.4, and Embiid was at 6.5. 

Of the 54 ballots for MVP that are known to have been submitted so far (out of 100 writers and 1 fan vote), Jokic has 445 votes, Greek Freak has 304, and Joel has 250. Maybe things will change with the remaining ballots, but Jokic looks like he will go back-to-back.

Speaking of balloting, I don't fully understand the All NMA balloting. Voters can vote centers at either the center or forward positions . . . but they don't combine the votes.

So far . . .

Giannis 165 points at forward
Jokic 30 points at forward, 128 points at center
Embiid 30 points at forward, 92 points at center
Tatum 132 points at forward

Because they don't combine votes, Tatum will likely be on the first team at forward . . . but he would only be ahead of Embiid by 4 points at this point if they combined votes. There are still plenty of ballots out there, but as of now, the All NBA teams would look like this if things stayed the same . . .

First Team
Jokic - C (128)
Giannis - F (165)
Tatum - F (132)
Booker - G (158)
Doncic - G (156)

Second Team
Embiid - C (92)
Durant - F (92)
DeRozan - F (65)
Morant - G (101)
Curry - G (96)

Third Team
Towns - C (52)
James - F (52)
Siakim - F (27)
Paul - G (35)
Young - G (34)

 
Anarchy99 said:
I am not going to lose sleep over it no matter who wins, but Jokic had the most efficient season in the history of the NBA. As in best out of anyone . . . ever. To be fair, Giannis had the 3rd most efficient season of all time and Embiid was 14th best.

The Nuggets second best player (Murray) missed the entire season and their third best player (Porter) played in only 9 games. The Bucks and Sixers each won 51 games while the Nuggets won 48. Based on VORP, Jokic was at 9.8, Giannis was at 7.4, and Embiid was at 6.5. 

Of the 54 ballots for MVP that are known to have been submitted so far (out of 100 writers and 1 fan vote), Jokic has 445 votes, Greek Freak has 304, and Joel has 250. Maybe things will change with the remaining ballots, but Jokic looks like he will go back-to-back.

Speaking of balloting, I don't fully understand the All NMA balloting. Voters can vote centers at either the center or forward positions . . . but they don't combine the votes.

So far . . .

Giannis 165 points at forward
Jokic 30 points at forward, 128 points at center
Embiid 30 points at forward, 92 points at center
Tatum 132 points at forward

Because they don't combine votes, Tatum will likely be on the first team at forward . . . but he would only be ahead of Embiid by 4 points at this point if they combined votes. There are still plenty of ballots out there, but as of now, the All NBA teams would look like this if things stayed the same . . .

First Team
Jokic - C (128)
Giannis - F (165)
Tatum - F (132)
Booker - G (158)
Doncic - G (156)

Second Team
Embiid - C (92)
Durant - F (92)
DeRozan - F (65)
Morant - G (101)
Curry - G (96)

Third Team
Towns - C (52)
James - F (52)
Siakim - F (27)
Paul - G (35)
Young - G (34)
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No way Curry and Doncic  should be ahead  of Trae Young this season. Trae averaged more points, more assists, on better percentages, and played more games.  Trae literally led the league in points and assists in the regular season and somehow is two teams below Luka and one team below Curry? I understand the popularity contest involved in things—but it would be nice if some objectivity was shown in these things.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
No way Curry and Doncic  should be ahead  of Trae Young this season. Trae averaged more points, more assists, on better percentages, and played more games.  Trae literally led the league in points and assists in the regular season and somehow is two teams below Luka and one team below Curry? I understand the popularity contest involved in things—but it would be nice if some objectivity was shown in these things.  
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Lol. Winning matters. Also both Curry and Doncic rebound and defend significantly better than Trae. I love the passion for your guy though. Trae first ever to lead in points + assists in both NCAA (at OU) and NBA, i think I heard. Freaking love him.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
No way Curry and Doncic  should be ahead  of Trae Young this season. Trae averaged more points, more assists, on better percentages, and played more games.  Trae literally led the league in points and assists in the regular season and somehow is two teams below Luka and one team below Curry? I understand the popularity contest involved in things—but it would be nice if some objectivity was shown in these things.  
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Trae is great, but to this point the knock has been that he does some stat chasing and doesn't do enough else to be in the elite level of guys in MVP conversations.  Both Curry & Doncic got some run as potential MVP's during the season.  Curry fell off late and Doncic was too slow out the gate but at their peak, they are simply better than Young.

 
Instinctive said:
Lol. Winning matters. Also both Curry and Doncic rebound and defend significantly better than Trae. I love the passion for your guy though. Trae first ever to lead in points + assists in both NCAA (at OU) and NBA, i think I heard. Freaking love him.
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Okay—lets be honest. NOBODY put Luka in the first team due to defense.  He is not a great defender—and the only reason why maybe his defensive metrics appear to be better than Trae is because he has the luxury of playing with a team of defensive minded players. Powell, Finney smith, and others are defensive specialists.  Secondly—winning has a lot to do with the quality of teammates. Steph plays on a team with Poole, Klay, Wiggins, and Draymond.   Last night just showed that Luka’s supporting team is a lot better than people give them credit for.   Both Brunson and Dinwiddiie could easily be 20-25 point a game scorers as starting guards on teams without Luka.  Look at what Porzingis was doing in Washington post trade.   You take Trae off of the Hawks—and you think that Gallinari is a threat to go for 25-30 consistently?  I’m not saying Trae is better than Curry or Luka at their peaks—but he objectively had better seasons than both of them this year.  That’s just a fact.  On top of that—maybe I’m old school—but I want star players that don’t miss a lot of games.   The gap in games played trumps any defensive gaps in my opinion. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Okay—lets be honest. NOBODY put Luka in the first team due to defense.  He is not a great defender—and the only reason why maybe his defensive metrics appear to be better than Trae is because he has the luxury of playing with a team of defensive minded players. Powell, Finney smith, and others are defensive specialists.  Secondly—winning has a lot to do with the quality of teammates. Steph plays on a team with Poole, Klay, Wiggins, and Draymond.   Last night just showed that Luka’s supporting team is a lot better than people give them credit for.   Both Brunson and Dinwiddiie could easily be 20-25 point a game scorers as starting guards on teams without Luka.  Look at what Porzingis was doing in Washington post trade.   You take Trae off of the Hawks—and you think that Gallinari is a threat to go for 25-30 consistently?  I’m not saying Trae is better than Curry or Luka at their peaks—but he objectively had better seasons than both of them this year.  That’s just a fact.  On top of that—maybe I’m old school—but I want star players that don’t miss a lot of games.   The gap in games played trumps any defensive gaps in my opinion. 
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You're kidding yourself if you think people don't use "average" vs "awful" defense and significant rebounding gaps to split hairs among these guys. 

Trae didn't have a better season. He probably gave up as much as he created. And he didn't win as much. 

 
gruecd said:
He's not even as good as Jrue.
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On ball, I'd be inclined to agree with this.  But off ball, on rotations, fast breaks, double teams, etc., Smart is the best in the league.  He's more willing to try and knock the opponent off their game from time to time and sometimes it works and he end up making game winning defensive plays.  He's not a normal defensive guard in many respects.

Jrue plays it more straight up and has the help of a former DPOY behind him and another 7-footer in Lopez so he is much less likely to win it.

ETA:  @wikkidpissah can wax poetic on him much better than I, if he's so inclined...

 
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