2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (1 Viewer)

[Major]

Really want Memphis to win this tonight so I can hear all the Grizzlies are better without Morant takes.  

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It's funny when people take the name of the award literally.  We all know that MVP is the best player, not "most valuable to his team".  It's the same in the NFL.  It has nothing to do with who is more valuable to his team.... if that's the case, then an injured player who misses the whole year could be in the conversation if his team sucks (exaggerating, but you get the point). 

I’ve never considered it the best player award. Otherwise they would just call it player of the year.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Really want Memphis to win this tonight so I can hear all the Grizzlies are better without Morant takes.  

Well, they sort of are

 

[Deamon]

I’ve never considered it the best player award. Otherwise they would just call it player of the year.

Nah they wouldn't.  They're not going to change the name of it now, but it is clearly not the most valuable 'to their team' or that opens up the door for a plethora of players.  It's about numbers, team record, and greatness.

Either way, I think either Embiid or Jokic would have been a good choice. 

 

[Pipes]

Congrats Celtics fans well earned victory tonight.  Bucks need someone else to step up Giannis is carrying way too big of a load right now.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It's about numbers, team record, and greatness.

Except when Karl Malone wins

 

[Major]

Well, they sort of are

It's hard to argue that regular season record.  Not disagreeing, its just a funny take with an MVP caliber player.  Couldn't imagine saying that about the Hawks without Tre or Mavs without Luka.  

 

[Mister CIA]

Danny Fortson Jr looks awesome.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It's hard to argue that regular season record.  Not disagreeing, its just a funny take with an MVP caliber player.  Couldn't imagine saying that about the Hawks without Tre or Mavs without Luka.  

Or maybe we just don’t really understand what an MVP caliber player is.

 

[Frostillicus]

Dillon Brooks is a dum dum. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

Lucky to win this one.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Curry:  “this is my ####### house!!”

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Warriors fans still booing Dillon Brooks as the buzzer sounded

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Bad loss for the Grizzlies. Game was theirs to take.  Didn’t quite understand not utilizing Brandon Clarke and Melton more. I said it earlier in the thread—but Jaren Jackson Jr. needs to work on his offense.  He plays at one speed—too quick and too eager on the offensive end.  His mind was made that he was going to shoot that three regardless of how he was being defended.  

 

[Chaos Commish]

Memphis is just dumb. It was fun against the dumb Wolves. It's sad against a smart team.

 

[identikit]

Ugliest playoff win I've seen in quite a while

 

[Insein]

2000/1000/500 .....nobody has ever done this in the NBA....think about that.....nobody....name every great/elite/mt. rushmore/hall of famer....not one.....

Joker might have had 750 assts if they had someone that could shoot........and those aren't even the "advanced stats" Jokic put up that nobody has ever....

I get it....if you are on the playground he may not be one of the first guys picked....but in a room of NBA GM's he would be in the conversation....and very well might be....there is much more to the all around game then the uber athletic fan boys want to talk about because it doesn't make the lead in highlights on sportscenter....

People keep going on about the numbers and the fact he's missing 2 players. The only reason he got to those numbers is because he's missing those players. It's like Westbrook compiling stats in OKC. Yes Jokic is good but the jerking off of the 2000-1000-500 like it's some sacred number when the guy plays poor defense is ridiculous.

Embiid won the scoring title... As a Center. Oh he also plays really good defense to the point that teams alter their offense to avoid him. He's Shaq but with Olajuwon's touch and quickness. All while the 2nd best player on the team tried to sabotage the whole thing for 2/3 of the year. He carried the Sixers with his best help being a 2nd year Maxey and Harris who didn't start playing well until about Feb. Harden came in the trade and has been decent since he joined but it's not like he's a top 10-15 player during that span. Everyone on here feels he's washed and at times he's shown it. 

 MVP is supposed to be the best player that year. Embiid is clearly the best player. 

 

[the moops]

People keep going on about the numbers and the fact he's missing 2 players. The only reason he got to those numbers is because he's missing those players. It's like


Westbrook


compiling stats in OKC. Yes Jokic is good but the jerking off of the 2000-1000-500 like it's some sacred number when the guy plays poor defense is ridiculous.

Embiid won the scoring title... As a Center. Oh he also plays really good defense to the point that teams alter their offense to avoid him. He's Shaq but with Olajuwon's touch and quickness. All while the 2nd best player on the team tried to sabotage the whole thing for 2/3 of the year. He carried the Sixers with his best help being a 2nd year Maxey and


Harris


who didn't start playing well until about Feb. Harden came in the trade and has been decent since he joined but it's not like he's a top 10-15 player during that span. Everyone on here feels he's washed and at times he's shown it. 

 MVP is supposed to be the best player that year. Embiid is clearly the best player. 

So Jokic only got his numbers because his best players were missing.

Also, let me tell you how awesome Embiid is by pointing out the players he was missing

 

[Navin Johnson]

They miss a lot of calls where a player changes his pivot foot. I think more than five people here understand that element of traveling.

Maybe 6 or 7.  The one refs miss the most is on the putdown from a stationary, ie triple threat and they do miss a lot of foot dragging/resetting on post ups/step thrus.  In those respects the rule is exactly the same as NFHS and NCAA.   

 

[Tau837]

We all know that MVP is the best player, not "most valuable to his team".  It's the same in the NFL.  It has nothing to do with who is more valuable to his team

No one would say Jokic is the best player in the NBA, yet he won the award. That literally disproves your statement.

The award usually goes to the player who is judged to be most valuable among the small pool of players who:

• Had a 1st team All NBA caliber regular season
  
• Was the best player on a team with at least a good regular season record
  
• Played a minimum threshold of games... might vary per voter, but probably at least 70 for most voters
  

 

[Brunell4MVP]

None of it's worth caring about.  Tell me who the MVP was in 1977, 87, 97, of 2007 without looking.  I mean you can reel off a few candidates.   The Jordan, Malone, Magic, Bird, Kobe, types.   But nobody know the real answer until they look it up or are a nerd.

Heck the entire lineups of  Bird, McHale, Parrish, Ainge, DJ or Magic, Jabbar, Worthy, Rambis Cooper, Wilkes or Jordan, Pippin, Cartwright, Armstrong, Paxson, Grant, Perdue are more memorable than last years MVP.  Same for some GSW, DET, MIA, and PHI teams.  Nobody will remember this years MVP once the season shuts down.  Whether it was Jokic, Embiid, Curry, etc.  It's a meaningless title.

In the end history remembers the players and lineups that impacted season after season.  And that usually means winning titles unless someone is just awesome at a specific part of the game.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

People keep going on about the numbers and the fact he's missing 2 players. The only reason he got to those numbers is because he's missing those players. It's like Westbrook compiling stats in OKC. Yes Jokic is good but the jerking off of the 2000-1000-500 like it's some sacred number when the guy plays poor defense is ridiculous.

Embiid won the scoring title... As a Center. Oh he also plays really good defense to the point that teams alter their offense to avoid him. He's Shaq but with Olajuwon's touch and quickness. All while the 2nd best player on the team tried to sabotage the whole thing for 2/3 of the year. He carried the Sixers with his best help being a 2nd year Maxey and Harris who didn't start playing well until about Feb. Harden came in the trade and has been decent since he joined but it's not like he's a top 10-15 player during that span. Everyone on here feels he's washed and at times he's shown it. 

 MVP is supposed to be the best player that year. Embiid is clearly the best player. 

Whether or not I agree with most of this, I sort of lost interest at “the quickness of Olajuwon.”  I don’t really see that.  But oh well, just sleep deprived (Warriors game + 6am Chicago flight) and nitpicking.

 

[gruecd]

Still licking my wounds here after last night's game.  I hate that I let my teams' wins/losses affect my mood, even in the short term. None of this affects my life in any way at all. Ugh.

Anyway, I have a really hard time seeing the Bucks win this series unless something changes dramatically.  Giannis is doing everything in his power to will them to victory, but he's only one man.  Obviously Jrue shooting 5/22 isn't gonna get the job done, and they need to do something on defense so they can stop helping off Horford.  Dude is absolutely killing them.  Bucks are a good three-point shooting team, and for some reason they're just BROKE this series.  And it's not even like they're missing contested shots; lots of them are wide open.  Just frustrating all the way around.  

One thing completely unrelated to the outcome that I don't understand - why do the refs let Grant Williams chase them all over the court whining about calls?  How does this dude never get T'd up?

 

[Navin Johnson]

. He's Shaq but with Olajuwon's touch and quickness.

No and no.

 

[Charlie Harper]

Yesterday was a game where GP2 was missed. With the team struggling from the 3 point line and MEM sagging off of Green, the Warriors really needed GP2 slashing and vertical presence finishing. 

Kuminga offers the same impact on  offense, but he can't be trusted yet on both ends. I would have much rather have seen JTA soak up those minutes instead of Lee. 

 

[Jayrod]

One thing completely unrelated to the outcome that I don't understand - why do the refs let Grant Williams chase them all over the court whining about calls?  How does this dude never get T'd up?

1. It's the playoffs, so everybody gets a longer leash.  Watched Draymond absolutely berate an official after a call and got nothing.
   
2. Grant is, for the most part respectful in his dialogue.  His mannerisms and gestures may be over the top, but what he says isn't disrespectful or ignorant.  He's a actually a highly intelligent guy.
   
3. Udoka pulled him and he didn't play a second of the 4th quarter yesterday and I think it was partly due to his constant whining to the officials.  Not sure if the refs said something or if Udoka was fed up or what, but it was very strange that a guy who has been very good all season and started the game sat in crunch time.
   

 

[Alex P Keaton]

 I would have much rather have seen JTA soak up those minutes instead of Lee. 

Please no

 

[Jayrod]

None of it's worth caring about.  Tell me who the MVP was in 1977, 87, 97, of 2007 without looking.  I mean you can reel off a few candidates.   The Jordan, Malone, Magic, Bird, Kobe, types.   But nobody know the real answer until they look it up or are a nerd.

I'm going to guess:

Walton

Bird

Jordan

Lebron

 

[Jayrod]

I'm going to guess:

Walton

Bird

Jordan

Lebron

Just looked and I was 0-4.

It was Kareem, Magic, Malone, Dirk.

 

[Desert_Power]

Memphis is just dumb. It was fun against the dumb Wolves. It's sad against a smart team.

Yep. It's inexperience mostly, but the Warriors have the veterans to punish it.

 

[Tau837]

3 minutes ago, Jayrod said:
I'm going to guess:

Walton

Bird

Jordan

Lebron
Expand  

Just looked and I was 0-4.

It was Kareem, Magic, Malone, Dirk.

I knew 87 and 97 but not the other two. I knew 97 because it was the year Jordan should have won over Malone.

 

[Anarchy99]

1. It's the playoffs, so everybody gets a longer leash.  Watched Draymond absolutely berate an official after a call and got nothing.
   
2. Grant is, for the most part respectful in his dialogue.  His mannerisms and gestures may be over the top, but what he says isn't disrespectful or ignorant.  He's a actually a highly intelligent guy.
   
3. Udoka pulled him and he didn't play a second of the 4th quarter yesterday and I think it was partly due to his constant whining to the officials.  Not sure if the refs said something or if Udoka was fed up or what, but it was very strange that a guy who has been very good all season and started the game sat in crunch time.
   

Williams had 5 fouls. They put White in to chew up some minutes, and White played well and was disruptive defensively. Boston played lights out the rest of the way, so they left White in. Udoka said that in a post game presser. 

 

[Capella]

He's Shaq but with Olajuwon's touch and quickness.

Amazing you actually typed this out. 

 

[Desert_Power]

I don't really give much credence to overall scoring being a factor that should have Embiid over Jokic when that entire gap is covered by Embiid getting to the line almost twice as much.

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

Would love to hear from Memphis fans about how the fan base is feeling about Dillon Brooks this morning. Hard to imagine a role player botching a playoff series as much as Brooks has botched this one; first getting himself suspended because of a stupid foul for a home loss, and then blowing a lead almost single-handedly with hero ball last night.

But I know he's a bit of a cult hero, and obviously the Grizz offensive options were a bit more limited last night.

 

[mr. furley]

didn't catch all of the Bucks game last night but what i did was unbearable.

so many fouls. so much whining. more whining than fouling.

social media has gassed these dudes heads up so much that they are buying in to the narrative that they're being wronged on every call and the refs are to blame for everything.

look, guy, you karate chopped both arms, shoved the guy and screamed at the ref that you did nothing wrong. that's a foul in every league. just accept it.

 

[Jayrod]

Celtics twitter is doing some over the top drooling over Al for his game last night, but this one cracked me up.

 

[Jayrod]

didn't catch all of the Bucks game last night but what i did was unbearable.

so many fouls. so much whining. more whining than fouling.

social media has gassed these dudes heads up so much that they are buying in to the narrative that they're being wronged on every call and the refs are to blame for everything.

look, guy, you karate chopped both arms, shoved the guy and screamed at the ref that you did nothing wrong. that's a foul in every league. just accept it.

T&P

 

[Alex P Keaton]

didn't catch all of the Bucks game last night but what i did was unbearable.

so many fouls. so much whining. more whining than fouling.

social media has gassed these dudes heads up so much that they are buying in to the narrative that they're being wronged on every call and the refs are to blame for everything.

look, guy, you karate chopped both arms, shoved the guy and screamed at the ref that you did nothing wrong. that's a foul in every league. just accept it.

What’s weird is…..don’t you think most guys know when they commit a foul?  Maybe the game just moves so fast that they aren’t sure. Or perhaps the rules are so inconsistently applied that they aren’t sure.

 

[Anarchy99]

didn't catch all of the Bucks game last night but what i did was unbearable.

so many fouls. so much whining. more whining than fouling.

social media has gassed these dudes heads up so much that they are buying in to the narrative that they're being wronged on every call and the refs are to blame for everything.

look, guy, you karate chopped both arms, shoved the guy and screamed at the ref that you did nothing wrong. that's a foul in every league. just accept it.

To be clear, I am not condoning any of the behavior about whining at the refs . . . but I think most of it stems from PLAYER X has something not called in his favor on one side of the court and then PLAYER Y does the same exact thing the next possession or two later against PLAYER X and PLAYER X gets called for a foul.

As a fan, I don't care that the refs call fouls, but they should call things consistently. When there are muggings going on that get play on calls but then a ticky tack foul gets called instead, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

I wish players would just shut up and play, but in a high stress, high pressure game that isn't a likely outcome.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

didn't catch all of the Bucks game last night but what i did was unbearable.

so many fouls. so much whining. more whining than fouling.

social media has gassed these dudes heads up so much that they are buying in to the narrative that they're being wronged on every call and the refs are to blame for everything.

look, guy, you karate chopped both arms, shoved the guy and screamed at the ref that you did nothing wrong. that's a foul in every league. just accept it.

My main take is pity for the refs who have to try to call these games. There is hard contact on and off the ball on every single play, the block/charge situation is impossible, constantly brutal abuse from both benches, multiple coaches on both teams and the spectators. Can't possibly be worth whatever they are paid.

 

[identikit]

What’s weird is…..don’t you think most guys know when they commit a foul?  Maybe the game just moves so fast that they aren’t sure. Or perhaps the rules are so inconsistently applied that they aren’t sure.

They know

Though they may think it's only 'incidental contact'

 

[Stinkin Ref]

People keep going on about the numbers and the fact he's missing 2 players. The only reason he got to those numbers is because he's missing those players. It's like Westbrook compiling stats in OKC. Yes Jokic is good but the jerking off of the 2000-1000-500 like it's some sacred number when the guy plays poor defense is ridiculous.

Embiid won the scoring title... As a Center. Oh he also plays really good defense to the point that teams alter their offense to avoid him. He's Shaq but with Olajuwon's touch and quickness. All while the 2nd best player on the team tried to sabotage the whole thing for 2/3 of the year. He carried the Sixers with his best help being a 2nd year Maxey and Harris who didn't start playing well until about Feb. Harden came in the trade and has been decent since he joined but it's not like he's a top 10-15 player during that span. Everyone on here feels he's washed and at times he's shown it. 

 MVP is supposed to be the best player that year. Embiid is clearly the best player. 

the fact that you end your post with this and can't even seem to consider that a case could be made for Joker pretty much makes the rest of your post irrelevant due to homerism....Joker has now won it two years in a row, voted by people who do this every year....believe it or not there is a real good chance that no matter how much you crow about someone else, most people disagree with you....and that should be ok....most are willing to agree that a case could be made for Giannis or Embid....but when push comes to shove most agree it was Joker.....you keep harping on defense, Joker plays good team defense and he he averaged more rebounds and steals than both Giannis and Embid....besides blocks, (where Joker trailed by about a half a block a game)....not sure what other actual defensive stat we can use....he has established himself as one of the most dominant all around players in the game.....Embid is not clearly the best....its clear he is one of the best.....

 

[Jayrod]

I couldn't keep my eyes open any longer to watch the end of the Grizz/Warriors game, but reading about it sounds like Brooks took a bunch of ill-advised shots at the end to lose it?  I wondered if they would prove me wrong and play a sound game to win, but looks like they played immature and undisciplined down the stretch.

From the bit I did watch, defensively neither of these teams are on the team defense level of the Bucks/Celtics.  They have some great individual defensive players who make some great plays, but there seems to be a lot more space and freedom of movement on the court.  Bucks & Celtics are just mugging each other on every cut and pass it seems.

 

[wikkidpissah]

I couldn't keep my eyes open any longer to watch the end of the Grizz/Warriors game, but reading about it sounds like Brooks took a bunch of ill-advised shots at the end to lose it?  I wondered if they would prove me wrong and play a sound game to win, but looks like they played immature and undisciplined down the stretch.

From the bit I did watch, defensively neither of these teams are on the team defense level of the Bucks/Celtics.  They have some great individual defensive players who make some great plays, but there seems to be a lot more space and freedom of movement on the court.  Bucks & Celtics are just mugging each other on every cut and pass it seems.

Bucks D was outstanding last night - most uncomfortable ive been watching a C's game this yr. They really missed the Middleton option this game. Someone needs to step up for them to thwart the Horford Express & make it to the next day game...

 

[Anarchy99]

the fact that you end your post with this and can't even seem to consider that a case could be made for Joker pretty much makes the rest of your post irrelevant due to homerism....Joker has now won it two years in a row, voted by people who do this every year....believe it or not there is a real good chance that no matter how much you crow about someone else, most people disagree with you....and that should be ok....most are willing to agree that a case could be made for Giannis or Embid....but when push comes to shove most agree it was Joker.....you keep harping on defense, Joker plays good team defense and he he averaged more rebounds and steals than both Giannis and Embid....besides blocks, (where Joker trailed by about a half a block a game)....not sure what other actual defensive stat we can use....he has established himself as one of the most dominant all around players in the game.....Embid is not clearly the best....its clear he is one of the best.....

I don't have a dog in this fight. Any one of Jokic / Embiid / Giannis would have been a worthy selection as MVP.

Defensive Win Shares: Jokic 4.5 (2nd, Embiid 4.1 (4th), Giannis 3.7 (9th)
Defensive Box +/-: Jokic 4.5 (1st), Giannis 3.5 (2nd), Embiid 2.0 (9th)
Defensive Rating: Jokic 105.3 (7th), Embiid 105.3 (9th), Giannis 106.4 (12th)
Defensive Rebound %: Jokic 35.5 (2nd), Embiid 31.1 (6th), Giannis 30.4 (9th)
Net Rating: Jokic +21.3, Giannis +17.2, Embiid +14.0

 

[Jayrod]

Bucks D was outstanding last night - most uncomfortable ive been watching a C's game this yr. They really missed the Middleton option this game. Someone needs to step up for them to thwart the Horford Express & make it to the next day game...

Until the 4th Qtr, I thought the game was going to end in the 90's.  Possessions were just an absolute grind on both ends.  Wes Matthews is as valuable to what they are doing as the big guys because Tatum can't get anywhere he wants and can't get the ball when he wants it either.

I think the only thing that saved the Celtics was the Bucks just got worn out.  Their energy level plummeted in the 4th.

 

[Instinctive]

None of it's worth caring about.  Tell me who the MVP was in 1977, 87, 97, of 2007 without looking.  I mean you can reel off a few candidates.   The Jordan, Malone, Magic, Bird, Kobe, types.   But nobody know the real answer until they look it up or are a nerd.

Heck the entire lineups of  Bird, McHale, Parrish, Ainge, DJ or Magic, Jabbar, Worthy, Rambis Cooper, Wilkes or Jordan, Pippin, Cartwright, Armstrong, Paxson, Grant, Perdue are more memorable than last years MVP.  Same for some GSW, DET, MIA, and PHI teams.  Nobody will remember this years MVP once the season shuts down.  Whether it was Jokic, Embiid, Curry, etc.  It's a meaningless title.

In the end history remembers the players and lineups that impacted season after season.  And that usually means winning titles unless someone is just awesome at a specific part of the game.

I must be a nerd haha. I don't think that's remotely true.

2007 Dirk but of course I'd know that one. 1997 Malone? 1987 Magic or Bird...I'll guess Magic? 1977 I have to guess Kareem or Oscar. 

I'd buy a point that the MVP race is more memorable than who actually won.

 

[Navin Johnson]

To be clear, I am not condoning any of the behavior about whining at the refs . . . but I think most of it stems from PLAYER X has something not called in his favor on one side of the court and then PLAYER Y does the same exact thing the next possession or two later against PLAYER X and PLAYER X gets called for a foul.

As a fan, I don't care that the refs call fouls, but they should call things consistently. When there are muggings going on that get play on calls but then a ticky tack foul gets called instead, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

I wish players would just shut up and play, but in a high stress, high pressure game that isn't a likely outcome.

You had that sequence the other night where Ayton gave Powell a two hand shove in the back to secure the rebound and put back turn the very next possession, Powell gets called for basically a wrist flick on the back. Just shake my head sometimes. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

and, since so much is being made of sportsmanship in this year's playoffs, i should stand against the tide by making note of last nite's remorseful acts by the obviously devout & contrite Dillon Brooks. he hurled so many Hail Marys in Game 4 that they must be considered acts of penance for his Game 2 misdeeds.