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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (3 Viewers)

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Navin Johnson said:
You had that sequence the other night where Ayton gave Powell a two hand shove in the back to secure the rebound and put back turn the very next possession, Powell gets called for basically a wrist flick on the back. Just shake my head sometimes. 
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The most bonkers thing, if you picked up on it, was you saw Powell go ask the ref exactly what was allowed or called or not, BEFORE he then went down and got called for it. I think he got a tech because after the whistle he said something to the effect of: "Are you ####### kidding me I JUST asked you what I can do and then did it and then called a foul mother####er! Make up your mind. Why the #### did I even ask you?!"

 
I watched the recap of the MIL / BOS game on Hoops Tonight with Jason Timpf on YT. He's really knowledgeable and calls it like he sees it. He looked at the numbers in the series and the game film, and the numbers show that Boston is way more efficient in a half-court offense than Milwaukee. The only way the Bucks have been competitive is from BOS turnovers and breakaways. MIL is averaging 2.0 - 2.3 points per turnover / transition scoring on fast breaks (Boston scores at about half that in similar situations). The rest of the time though, the Celtics are significantly more efficient than the Bucks. In his opinion, if Boston holds onto the ball and just slows the game down into a half-court game, Boston has been significantly better so far (without Middleton playing) and has a huge advantage.

One thing I found interesting is he reviewed that the Bucks always have Lopez patrolling the paint and Horford goes and camps out on the perimeter . . . meaning that Al is frequently open for clean looks from deep. Unless and until the Bucks come out of the paint, those shots will continue to be there for Horford and Williams. But that's not how MIL plays defense, and their defensive philosophy is to protect the rim. Up until now, Boston has been making those shots (and the Bucks players haven't), and the size of Horford and Williams has allowed them to get their deep shots even if contested by smaller players.

Timpf went on to say that the hope for MIL is that Giannis plays even better (probably unlikely since it seems like he has run out of gas by the end of games as the series has gone on) and that the supporting cast can start hitting their threes. He doesn't expect those things to happen, as Giannis has taken so many shots that the other guys can't get into a rhythm and Holiday isn't accustomed to having to be relied on to take 25+ shots each game. Timpf predicts BOS to win by 10-15 in Game 5 and to win a close game slog in Game 6. Bottom line for him, if Boston doesn't get reckless with the basketball, they will win the series.

 
Harden is the king of the "I got fouled" nonsense.  Dribble dribble dribble throw up a shot look to the refs with hsi hands out...

 
Anarchy99 said:
I don't have a dog in this fight. Any one of Jokic / Embiid / Giannis would have been a worthy selection as MVP.

Defensive Win Shares: Jokic 4.5 (2nd, Embiid 4.1 (4th), Giannis 3.7 (9th)
Defensive Box +/-: Jokic 4.5 (1st), Giannis 3.5 (2nd), Embiid 2.0 (9th)
Defensive Rating: Jokic 105.3 (7th), Embiid 105.3 (9th), Giannis 106.4 (12th)
Defensive Rebound %: Jokic 35.5 (2nd), Embiid 31.1 (6th), Giannis 30.4 (9th)
Net Rating: Jokic +21.3, Giannis +17.2, Embiid +14.0
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Al Horford should be in this conversation

 
Anarchy99 said:
I watched the recap of the MIL / BOS game on Hoops Tonight with Jason Timpf on YT. He's really knowledgeable and calls it like he sees it. He looked at the numbers in the series and the game film, and the numbers show that Boston is way more efficient in a half-court offense than Milwaukee. The only way the Bucks have been competitive is from BOS turnovers and breakaways. MIL is averaging 2.0 - 2.3 points per turnover / transition scoring on fast breaks (Boston scores at about half that in similar situations). The rest of the time though, the Celtics are significantly more efficient than the Bucks. In his opinion, if Boston holds onto the ball and just slows the game down into a half-court game, Boston has been significantly better so far (without Middleton playing) and has a huge advantage.

One thing I found interesting is he reviewed that the Bucks always have Lopez patrolling the paint and Horford goes and camps out on the perimeter . . . meaning that Al is frequently open for clean looks from deep. Unless and until the Bucks come out of the paint, those shots will continue to be there for Horford and Williams. But that's not how MIL plays defense, and their defensive philosophy is to protect the rim. Up until now, Boston has been making those shots (and the Bucks players haven't), and the size of Horford and Williams has allowed them to get their deep shots even if contested by smaller players.

Timpf went on to say that the hope for MIL is that Giannis plays even better (probably unlikely since it seems like he has run out of gas by the end of games as the series has gone on) and that the supporting cast can start hitting their threes. He doesn't expect those things to happen, as Giannis has taken so many shots that the other guys can't get into a rhythm and Holiday isn't accustomed to having to be relied on to take 25+ shots each game. Timpf predicts BOS to win by 10-15 in Game 5 and to win a close game slog in Game 6. Bottom line for him, if Boston doesn't get reckless with the basketball, they will win the series.
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Sadly, I agree with almost all of this.  Way too much iso ball with Giannis, who has terrible chemistry with Jrue.  Bucks miss Middleton badly in their half-court sets.  Defensively, they probably need to go with more Giannis at the 5 and just switch everything on the perimeter to limit the open looks, but like you said, that's just not what they do.

 
Instinctive said:
The most bonkers thing, if you picked up on it, was you saw Powell go ask the ref exactly what was allowed or called or not, BEFORE he then went down and got called for it. I think he got a tech because after the whistle he said something to the effect of: "Are you ####### kidding me I JUST asked you what I can do and then did it and then called a foul mother####er! Make up your mind. Why the #### did I even ask you?!"
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Even if he didn't ask he was well within his rights to go off on the ref.  The two infractions weren't even comparable and they whistled the wrong one.  When I saw them call the second one I immediately thought I'm getting rung up here if it were me or my player.  These guys can't be that bad, especially on back-to-back possessions involving the same players.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
My main take is pity for the refs who have to try to call these games. There is hard contact on and off the ball on every single play, the block/charge situation is impossible, constantly brutal abuse from both benches, multiple coaches on both teams and the spectators. Can't possibly be worth whatever they are paid.
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everyone thinks all refs suck anyways

but these are the best the sport has to offer (sure some people think they're all on the take, etc.) and they just get killed on EVERY. SINGLE. PLAY. no matter what they do.

there were 1.4 million foul calls in that Bucks game last night and every single one of them was the most egregious offense ever committed against an NBA basketball player the world has ever seen. no one who got whistled has ever so much as considered thinking about maybe fouling someone in a live game. ever. 

nobody wants a stoppage every trip up the court, but when you double axe-handle a guy across the back of the head, or leg drop off the backboard on to a guy's prone dead body, that's a foul. screaming bloody murder to influence the next call makes the game slower than it already is.

gamesmanship, whatever. it's worse than buying time in soccer.

sometimes dudes have a case and i get the astonishment and pleading.. but not on every. single. whistle. you straight up threw the ball out of bounds, 3 feet over the head of everyone.. that's a turnover. now is not the time to confront the ref about a missed call from 3 minutes ago.

 
Jayrod said:
T&P
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not even referring to any theoretical lopsided or biased refereeing. 

i mean, in general, NBA games could be like 90 minutes but for the extra hour of stoppages while players litigate every single call whether it's for or against them.

3 players surround the ref every time to yell at them over even the most blatantly obvious call.

human nature being what it is, i bet the ref (though they are supposed to be unmoved by anything but objective facts) is going to call that guy a little tighter the next time.. or be a bit quicker on a T.. or favor the guy he's defending ever so slightly just as a subtle "#### you".

impossible job. let these guys play the way they want and it would be football on a court. there would be constant fights. 

it's really like watching the most petulant 3rd graders backed by their belligerent parents just assailing the referees on Saturday morning sometimes.

 
I know complaining about the refs is a yearly tradition in the NBA playoffs, but it feels pretty egregious this year. And we don't need to see every contact from 5 angles.

 
Desert_Power said:
I know complaining about the refs is a yearly tradition in the NBA playoffs, but it feels pretty egregious this year. And we don't need to see every contact from 5 angles.
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"if you look closely at the slo-mo here, Mike, you can see the jersey move a quarter inch as the player's hand appears to near the man he's defending.... then the left, right, left combo to his face is too close to call a foul. we'll get an update from Tony Brothers after the commercial break."

(8 minutes later)

"that can't possibly be a flagrant foul. he didn't even knock the man out. back to the monitors to look at more angles and see if any of those punches even landed cleanly."

 
If you're going to watch a game looking for refereeing inconsistencies - well, you'll have plenty to entertain yourself with because no human alive can call these games in real time and be consistent from play to play much less from night to night across different crews and different teams.  Of course this is particularly true for the Joe Six Pack who, 1) is biased toward one team; 2) is watching multiple replays on slomo from different angles; and 3) probably doesn't know the rules.

 
gruecd said:
...

One thing completely unrelated to the outcome that I don't understand - why do the refs let Grant Williams chase them all over the court whining about calls?  How does this dude never get T'd up?
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It seems to me that many players (yes, Bucks too) whine way too much. I say this even though the calls are often truly bad.

I watch the Celtics more than any other team so I'll compare 2 Celtics players. Certainly Grant Williams pleads his case too much but he doesn't make so many big gestures that might be interpreted as showing up the refs. OTH, Tatum sometimes throws up his arms and makes faces that seem  to communicate to everyone "I can't believe how stupid these refs are!" He's gotten a couple of Ts and deserved them.

 
IIRC a few years ago the NBA implemented a new rule that was designed to discourage the overt acts of displeasure with a call and keep them from going up to the refs after every single call......I wonder what ever happened to that...?..I don't think I am imagining that and I actually thought it worked and helped make the game a little more enjoyable to watch...

having to explain EVERY call is just ridiculous....I have reffed thousands of games at the high school level and below....I tell my wife constantly I may have some thick skin, but I wouldn't last two minutes with these cry babies coming at you on every single whistle....

I swear Draymond Green has never fouled anybody...ever....it had to be something else right, cause I'm Draymond and there is no way I did anything wrong...he is just one of hundreds in the league...

 
brun said:
It seems to me that many players (yes, Bucks too) whine way too much. I say this even though the calls are often truly bad.

I watch the Celtics more than any other team so I'll compare 2 Celtics players. Certainly Grant Williams pleads his case too much but he doesn't make so many big gestures that might be interpreted as showing up the refs. OTH, Tatum sometimes throws up his arms and makes faces that seem  to communicate to everyone "I can't believe how stupid these refs are!" He's gotten a couple of Ts and deserved them.
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I'm admittedly a homer, but I assure you that no Bucks players follow the refs around the court at every single opportunity to whine about something the way that Grant Williams does.  I'd put everything that I've got on that.

 
gruecd said:
I'm admittedly a homer, but I assure you that no Bucks players follow the refs around the court at every single opportunity to whine about something the way that Grant Williams does.  I'd put everything that I've got on that.
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Ok, he's the worst...

Is it possible to get past that?

 
Jayrod said:
Until the 4th Qtr, I thought the game was going to end in the 90's.  Possessions were just an absolute grind on both ends.  Wes Matthews is as valuable to what they are doing as the big guys because Tatum can't get anywhere he wants and can't get the ball when he wants it either.

I think the only thing that saved the Celtics was the Bucks just got worn out.  Their energy level plummeted in the 4th.
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They hit 16/19 in the 4th, absolutely wild.

 
What are we thinking on tonight's games?  Thinking the Heat win at home, cover 2.5 and the Mavs keep it close in Phoenix, but lose by a bucket or two tops.

 
gruecd said:
I'm admittedly a homer, but I assure you that no Bucks players follow the refs around the court at every single opportunity to whine about something the way that Grant Williams does.  I'd put everything that I've got on that.
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I think I read that's because they have to pay for GA's diapers, or something like that. I don't remember exactly. 😉

 
they really should have sat Embiid this game. I mean what is the point if you are going to show up so flat and looking so non-interested in a game 5 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. I get not getting too high with the wins, and too low with the losses, but this is just ugly. it is like they are waiting for the magical "switch" to all of a sudden start trying

 
modogg said:
i'm just trying to think if it more fun watching your team look lackluster for an entire game, or more fun to watch them blow double digit leads 2 games in a row in the 2nd round. 
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Every team blows double digit leads in the NBA. The Bucks just did it in game 4. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
It is only 4 minutes in, but Phoenix looks shook(except Booker) and the Dallas role players look confident. This series might be turning and the Chris Paul curse might be real. 
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i don't do magical thinking, so i don't believe in the curse. what i do believe is Dallas is just playing better. but yeah, this just started. but i felt pretty sure it started turning in Phoenix when Kidd cranked up the D pressure late in a loss. Dallas found something and it has carried over since. no idea how this ends up, but  :popcorn: fo sho...

 
Brunell4MVP said:
Nobody will remember this years MVP once the season shuts down.  Whether it was Jokic, Embiid, Curry, etc.  It's a meaningless title.

In the end history remembers the players and lineups that impacted season after season.  And that usually means winning titles unless someone is just awesome at a specific part of the game.
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The Hall of Fame resumes think otherwise.

 
Instinctive said:
The most bonkers thing, if you picked up on it, was you saw Powell go ask the ref exactly what was allowed or called or not, BEFORE he then went down and got called for it. I think he got a tech because after the whistle he said something to the effect of: "Are you ####### kidding me I JUST asked you what I can do and then did it and then called a foul mother####er! Make up your mind. Why the #### did I even ask you?!"
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That and there is a problem if true. If thats the case the ref should be looked into. But the league won't. I think less problems would occur if Refs were allowed to just call games by the book rather then just going by what the league office tells them to go by that day or week or month etc. 

 
GroveDiesel said:
Nailed it.
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Absolutely. The first quarter and a half felt just like game 4. Dallas jumps out to a lead. The Suns make a run to cut it in half, then Dallas makes a big shot or 2 to push it back up. 

Right before the half though the Suns took the lead and early in the 3rd, to their credit, the Suns looked like the team have seen all season. 

I said some where up thread to bet against me, especially in game. I am like 0 for 4 in game. 

 
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