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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)

Why is Kyle Shanahan even being discussed if he's under contract with the Browns?

I thought he did a nice job with the Browns this year. Ended poorly, but they were surprisingly effective with Hoyer and a bunch of nobodies at WR early on.

 
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Wow. WGR interviewed Fred Jackson this morning and he just about came right out and said that Hackett is an aggressive offensive guy but that Marrone called the shots on game day and forced the offense to be conservative. I feel bad for giving Hackett so much heat. He was a victim of Marrone just like so many others.
Here's a write up about it- he seems to be a pretty big fan of Schwartz as well:

http://www.wgr550.com/Jackson-endorses-Schwartz-for-Bills-HC-says-Hacket/13953133?pid=447983&do=1&stnBlogPage=true

 
IvanKaramazov said:
You guys understand that every single coordinator we would consider for a HC vacancy will have coached some good players, right? The guys who make the jump from OC/DC to HC are the guys who coach playoff teams. Those teams tend to have good players. You can make the "He only looked good because he was coaching talented players" argument about literally every single coordinator on the market, this year and every year.
True. Honestly that's an indictment of NFL teams in general that they mostly interview [insert good QB's OC] imo. A good analytics guy should come up with a way to figure which units in the league overachieved the most relative to their talent - could mean a below average talent produced slightly above average results.

I actually think Lazor is a good example? Miami's offense is 7th in Football Outsiders' ranks with what I think we can all agree is imperfect personnel.

Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bucky suggests Mike Shanahan is a HC candidate, not GM/czar only.

No thanks on his suggestion of Bill Lazor or Pep Hamilton either.

http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jerry-sullivan/mike-shanahan-would-be-ideal-for-the-bills-20150106
 
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Aaron Rudnicki said:
Why is Kyle Shanahan even being discussed if he's under contract with the Browns?

I thought he did a nice job with the Browns this year. Ended poorly, but they were surprisingly effective with Hoyer and a bunch of nobodies at WR early on.
Rumor is he's unhappy and trying to force his way out of Cleveland. Reports today that he'd accept a lateral move to be the OC somewhere else--was never on board with Manziel, etc. Also there are reports that Mike and Kyle Shanahan may want to be a package deal again (and in that vein, Kyle could be given an Asst. HC title to make it technically a promotion, getting him out of Cleveland).

 
Rotoworld:

NFL Network's Kimberly Jones reports the Bills will interview Rex Ryan for their head-coaching vacancy on Thursday.

We can't even count how many interviews the Bills have conducted or plan to conduct. But Ryan is one of the more intriguing candidates. It's a loaded roster on defense where Ryan's good pal, Mike Pettine, called the plays in 2013 before becoming the Browns' head coach. The defense would have to go through little transition. The key, as always, for Ryan is hiring a bright offensive mind to run that side of the ball. The Bills need a quarterback and about three offensive linemen. Ryan wrapped up a five-hour interview with the Falcons on Tuesday.

Related: Bills

Source: Kimberly Jones on Twitter
 
Updated coaching search. Up to 14 candidates:

Already Interviewed:

Broncos OC Adam Gase - reportedly interviewed Sat 1/3 (Buffalo News)
Seahawks OC Darrell Bevell - reportedly interviewed Sat 1/3 (Buffalo News)
Seahawks DC Dan Quinn - reportedly interviewed Sat 1/3 (Buffalo News)
Chargers OC Frank Reich - reportedly interviewed Sun 1/4 (PFT)
Former Washington HC Mike Shanahan - reportedly interviewed Sun 1/4 (AP/John Wawrow)

Not Yet Interviewed/Unconfirmed Interviewed:
Patriots OC Josh McDaniels - no confirmed interview scheduled yet. McDaniels has hinted that he is not interested in moving to a team in the Patriots division, thus ruling both Bills and Jets out. (WGR 550)
Bills DC Jim Schwartz - rumored to be getting an interview, "considered to be a candidate", nothing confirmed yet (Joe Buscaglia/Tim Graham), reportedly has already interviewed on an unknown date (SB Nation)
Colts OC Pep Hamilton - Bills have requested an interview, nothing confirmed (NFL.com)
Bengals OC Hue Jackson - Bills have requested an interview (NFL.com), possible interview Wed 1/7 (SB Nation)
Former Jets HC Rex Ryan - possible interview Thu 1/8 (SB Nation)
Lions DC Teryl Austin - Bills have requested an interview (Schefter), is "on the list of coaches to interview this week" (Syracuse.com), possible interview Sat 1/10 (SB Nation)

Eagles OC Pat Shurmur - Bills have requested an interview (Schefter/Buffalo News), believed to have been interviewed on Tuesday 1/6 (SB Nation)

Browns OC Kyle Shanahan - Bills have requested an interview, unclear whether for an OC job under Mike Shanahan or for the HC job (ESPN/Syracuse.com), possible interview Thu 1/8 (SB Nation)

49ers OC Greg Roman - Bills have requested an interview, nothing confirmed (Schefter/NBC), possible interview Fri 1/9 (SB Nation)

 
As a dynasty owner of the Buffalo DST, and a fan of defense in general with the way the league is going... Rex Ryan coaching that DST would be one amazing thing to see.

If I were a Buffalo fan, I'd root for that, praying that he's learned from saddling himself with lackluster OCs like Schotty and Morninwheg. Bring in a legit OC with Rex running that DST - could be a great pairing.

Idk much about the GM though - I think the GM's ineptitude also contributed to Rex's problems in NY.

 
As a dynasty owner of the Buffalo DST, and a fan of defense in general with the way the league is going... Rex Ryan coaching that DST would be one amazing thing to see.

If I were a Buffalo fan, I'd root for that, praying that he's learned from saddling himself with lackluster OCs like Schotty and Morninwheg. Bring in a legit OC with Rex running that DST - could be a great pairing.

Idk much about the GM though - I think the GM's ineptitude also contributed to Rex's problems in NY.
The one problem with that, is that the Bills just switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3 last year and I think the 4-3 actually suits them better. But ares would want to go to a 3-4 I'm sure. That would also mean a new DC which would be their 3rd in 3 years.

 
If you were a HC candidate and Whaley sat across from you and said;

"We really like EJ's potential and we are looking for someone to develop his game".

What would be your response?

 
I like Rex, but you have to consider the whole package. If he comes in, it seems more likely that you lose Schwartz- is Rex really much of an upgrade over him?

I'd prefer to keep the D as is and bring in an offensive guy if possible- it may not be an option, but a Kubiak/Schwartz combo would probably be best case scenario IMO.

 
Updated coaching search. Up to 14 candidates:

Already Interviewed:

Broncos OC Adam Gase - reportedly interviewed Sat 1/3 (Buffalo News)

Seahawks OC Darrell Bevell - reportedly interviewed Sat 1/3 (Buffalo News)

Seahawks DC Dan Quinn - reportedly interviewed Sat 1/3 (Buffalo News)

Chargers OC Frank Reich - reportedly interviewed Sun 1/4 (PFT)

Former Washington HC Mike Shanahan - reportedly interviewed Sun 1/4 (AP/John Wawrow)

Not Yet Interviewed/Unconfirmed Interviewed:

Patriots OC Josh McDaniels - no confirmed interview scheduled yet. McDaniels has hinted that he is not interested in moving to a team in the Patriots division, thus ruling both Bills and Jets out. (WGR 550)

Bills DC Jim Schwartz - rumored to be getting an interview, "considered to be a candidate", nothing confirmed yet (Joe Buscaglia/Tim Graham), reportedly has already interviewed on an unknown date (SB Nation)

Colts OC Pep Hamilton - Bills have requested an interview, nothing confirmed (NFL.com)

Bengals OC Hue Jackson - Bills have requested an interview (NFL.com), possible interview Wed 1/7 (SB Nation)

Former Jets HC Rex Ryan - possible interview Thu 1/8 (SB Nation)

Lions DC Teryl Austin - Bills have requested an interview (Schefter), is "on the list of coaches to interview this week" (Syracuse.com), possible interview Sat 1/10 (SB Nation)

Eagles OC Pat Shurmur - Bills have requested an interview (Schefter/Buffalo News), believed to have been interviewed on Tuesday 1/6 (SB Nation)

Browns OC Kyle Shanahan - Bills have requested an interview, unclear whether for an OC job under Mike Shanahan or for the HC job (ESPN/Syracuse.com), possible interview Thu 1/8 (SB Nation)

49ers OC Greg Roman - Bills have requested an interview, nothing confirmed (Schefter/NBC), possible interview Fri 1/9 (SB Nation)
Of the guys they have interview I like the first three on the list. Gase, Bevell, and Quinn.

Of the guys they haven't interviewed I would be interested in McDaniels to see how much he's learned and make sure he's not after personnel control that he had in Denver. Also I had completely overlooked Schwartz as a candidate and that makes sense because I'd hate to lose his defensive coaching ability and hiring him would create some continuity with the staff so I like that name.

And Rex Ryan has to be considered the lead candidate IMHO. Makes sense on many levels especially knowing the division as intimately as he does would really help.

Biggest red flag name on the list is Pat Shurmur IMHO. Just stay away from that one.

If they can't get Rex then Schwartz and Bevell intrigue me the most.

Good luck, hope you get a good hire.

 
If you were a HC candidate and Whaley sat across from you and said;

"We really like EJ's potential and we are looking for someone to develop his game".

What would be your response?
"I haven't done enough film study on him nor do I know what practises like. Same with in the film room and locker room. But from what I have seen this team needs to be actively looking for a new QB. We would continue to develop EJ behind someone else who can take this team back to the playoffs in 2015-16."It's a trick to see if the candidate will be honest with them but smart enough to not sound like an arrogant/belittling jerk. And also wants to win now.

Edit; Or do a Pete Carrol and go with "The best player plays. If he's the best, he plays."

 
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The thing I like about Rex is that he always seems to get the most out of his teams. The Jets were bad this year, but their roster is putrid. Even the years they made the playoffs, the roster looked bad and you'd think "how the heck did they get there".

Look at 2013. That team was horrible and they somehow finished 8-8.

I know that we have a good DC in Schwartz and the defense doesn't need fixing. But to me, the HC is more than that. It's about getting all the players to buy in and squeezing as much potential out of them. Rex has a great track record for that.

Plus, post game interviews will always be entertaining.

 
Albert BreerVerified account ‏@AlbertBreer 30m30 minutes ago

Former Browns offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan is en route to Buffalo now, will interview with Bills this afternoon.
I think Kyle would be a good choice. He seems to have shown that he can craft offense based around what he has.

Also, with all this talk about Whaley selling Manuel to interviewees, I just see it as a combo of looking for someone who can develop the talent in house (unlike Marrone) and of being realistic with the fact that they have no 1st round pick this year. I don't think they're gonna force Manuel on anyone if that coach gives him a fair shot & is found still lacking.

 
Just read an article that said that Bills threw exactly 4 screens to Watkins. Not in one quarter. Not in one game. Not in one month. The whole freaking season.

I don't even know what to say to that, other than it's either a sign of total incompetence or intentional sabotage. The crucial question is: who is responsible for that? Marrone, or Hackett?

 
Interestingly, the Browns also just fired Kyle Shanahan. :popcorn:
More like he quit. He asked to be released from his contract and they allowed it.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12136623/offensive-coordinator-kyle-shanahan-leaving-cleveland-browns

Sources familiar with the situation said the split was caused because the pair did not see eye to eye with the front office about quarterback Johnny Manziel. The front office wants Manziel to be the starter, and the source said the coaches do not believe they can win with him.
From what I've read, the scouts/coaches had Teddy rated higher but someone up high (read: Haslam) forced "JFF" on them. Can't blame him from wanting to get out of that situation.

 
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This Shanahan thing reinforces that coaches under contract are able to leave if they don't like the way things unfold, and it shows how silly it is for the front office to pressure/force the coaches to play certain players. Not a good thing considering what's going on in Buffalo right now.

 
Just read an article that said that Bills threw exactly 4 screens to Watkins. Not in one quarter. Not in one game. Not in one month. The whole freaking season.

I don't even know what to say to that, other than it's either a sign of total incompetence or intentional sabotage. The crucial question is: who is responsible for that? Marrone, or Hackett?
It's not a crucial question if you get rid of them both :)

 
This Shanahan thing reinforces that coaches under contract are able to leave if they don't like the way things unfold, and it shows how silly it is for the front office to pressure/force the coaches to play certain players. Not a good thing considering what's going on in Buffalo right now.
Yea, but at least if Kyle comes aboard as OC with his dad, we'll know he thinks Manuel can be salvaged and they can win with him. Whaley is upfront about his belief in EJ.

Shanny II is right about Manziel too. He's a clown.

 
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This Shanahan thing reinforces that coaches under contract are able to leave if they don't like the way things unfold, and it shows how silly it is for the front office to pressure/force the coaches to play certain players. Not a good thing considering what's going on in Buffalo right now.
Yea, but at least if Kyle comes aboard as OC with his dad, we'll know he thinks Manuel can be salvaged and they can win with him. Whaley is upfront about his belief in EJ.

Shanny II is right about Manziel too. He's a clown.
That's the problem- if he doesn't think Manuel should be the guy, the Bills lose out on potentially a very good coach (not necessarily Shanny specifically, but any coach who may be less than enthusiastic about Manuel). Not only could Whaley be screwing up the QB situation, it could have a domino effect on the coaching staff as well.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
It's a philosophical issue- coaches don't want to be dictated to, they want to be free to play (and look to acquire) the best players. EJ may end up being that (shudder), but it sounds like Whaley doesn't even want to entertain that he isn't.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
Agreed. Everybody already knows that the Bills QB situation is dicey at best. It's kind of hard to imagine a coach who would be willing to come if we signed Hoyer but not otherwise.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
True but a first round OL or WR probably would help EJ (or any other QB) Just saying for the purpose of bringing in a coach.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
The Jets can have Winston. I'm actually hoping for that perfect storm to happen.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
True but a first round OL or WR probably would help EJ (or any other QB) Just saying for the purpose of bringing in a coach.
The Bills don't need a WR. We have a good #1 and #2 and both are young and getting better. They also have a young demon to play the slot whose development was unfortunately paused by a certain shmuck of a head coach who had a propensity for halting young offensive development.

 
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I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
The Jets can have Winston. I'm actually hoping for that perfect storm to happen.
8 teams remaining in the playoffs - three of them are led by QB's not taken in the first round.

Wilson 3rd rounder

Brady 6th rounder

Romo Undrafted

I'd take a perfect storm over the heap of QB's they shuffled through here since #12 retired.

  • Todd Collins
  • Alex Van Pelt
  • Doug Flutie
  • Rob Johnson
  • Drew Bledsoe
  • J.P. Losman
  • Kelly Holcomb
  • Trent Edwards
  • Ryan Fitzpatrick
  • Brian Brohm
  • EJ Manuel
  • Thad Lewis
  • Jeff Tuel
  • Kyle Orton
I had actually forgot about Holcomb and Brohm.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
It's a philosophical issue- coaches don't want to be dictated to, they want to be free to play (and look to acquire) the best players. EJ may end up being that (shudder), but it sounds like Whaley doesn't even want to entertain that he isn't.
What's he supposed to say? They don't have any other QB on the roster. The draft sucks for QBs. The FA QB market is mediocre at best.

He wouldn't be doing his job if:

A) He didn't try to sell their only current option. He would be doing the team a disservice if he didn't at least try to sell Manuel since outside of him they have zero clue who could be their QB next year and going forward and

B) He wasn't honest and upfront with prospective HCs about the state of the team's QB position. It's pretty obvious anyway, but he's not blowing smoke up their butts about trading for a QB, trading up in the draft, or anything unlikely like that. Better to be honest and weed out coaches that would want absolutely nothing to do with EJ.

And frankly, any coach that would reject the Bills job based solely on the current QB situation without even wanting to try to develop EJ more isn't a coach I want. This team has a ton of talent. If a coach doesn't think he can either work around EJ or make him better and utilize the rest of the talent, then good riddance.

 
We put ourselves in a corner when Buddy Nix said we would draft a QB in the first round a couple years back. From that perspective, Whaley can't come out and say that we're going to get out and get a new QB, either from the draft, or free agency, or a trade. Even if that's what his true intentions are. As an example, say he tells Shanahan that they are targeting someone like Jay Cutler in a trade. That gets leaked, the price to acquire Cutler goes up, and you're in a situation where you're either over-paying for him or you're not paying the price and you failed in getting your guy. Either way, there's no way to avoid a bad result when everyone knows what you're trying to do.

But saying you want to develop EJ has less risk because he's in already, and you can still work behind the scenes to improve the depth chart at that position, hopefully with fewer leaks to the media than what has been happening with the coaching search.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.
Who?

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.
Who?
Seriously? You don't think there are any QBs out there who could be acquired for or drafted with a 1st round pick?

 
Pretty sure if they wanted Cutler, depending on who Chicago hires as HC and GM, they could just absorb his contract and Chicago would be pretty happy. I'd be floored if anyone gave a 1 for Cutler while also eating that ridiculous contract.

 
I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.
The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.
We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.
The Jets can have Winston. I'm actually hoping for that perfect storm to happen.
8 teams remaining in the playoffs - three of them are led by QB's not taken in the first round.

Wilson 3rd rounder

Brady 6th rounder

Romo Undrafted

I'd take a perfect storm over the heap of QB's they shuffled through here since #12 retired.

  • Todd Collins
  • Alex Van Pelt
  • Doug Flutie
  • Rob Johnson
  • Drew Bledsoe
  • J.P. Losman
  • Kelly Holcomb
  • Trent Edwards
  • Ryan Fitzpatrick
  • Brian Brohm
  • EJ Manuel
  • Thad Lewis
  • Jeff Tuel
  • Kyle Orton
I had actually forgot about Holcomb and Brohm.
They also tried Kolb although he never started a game

 

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